Blue Thunder Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 To speed Chrysalis up (in terms of our pbp game) I will propose a system here.You gain temporary Chrysalis like normal during play. And 10 temporary Chrysalis turn into 1 permanent Chrysalis, like normal.But in between Chapters there will be a great amount of downtime Since this campaign will focus on the civil war of the Teragen, it will fast forward to important events within the movement. This could leave months, maybe even a year or more, of downtime. So to compensate, characters will be able to gain temporary Chrysalis during this time as well.My proposal is this: for every month of downtime, I roll 5 dice. Each success is a point of temporary Chrysalis.That's the basis anyway. If your character doesn't want to undergo the Chrysalis, then he simply doesn't gain any temporary Chrysalis points since he's not trying to. Not all Teragen characters are out to gain temporary Chrysalis; Orzaiz, Sin-Eater, and The Confederate have avoided Chrysalis and Turncoat doesn't even have an Archetype yet.As for starting Chrysalis points...I'll actually leave this up to you. Yeah, you're welcome. But this is purely so you can help decide how soon or late you go Second Stage. Chrysalis will be viewed more as a storytelling hook than a gameplay mechanic, so you can decide how far along you are. I doubt anyone will go Second Stage after Chapter 1 besides SkyLion (he's getting a few extra Chrysalis points), but if someone else does, then so be it. Although having everyone go at the same time might be bad...since each Chrysalis cocoon needs guarding.You're allowed to have anywhere from 0-5 starting Chrysalis, and you'll have 0 temporary Chrysalis when the game starts. But remember that when you go undergo Chrysalis you have to roll your permanent Chrysalis against a +2 difficulty (!), so it would be safest to have at least a Chrysalis 5 before you try to become Second Stage. You need three successes on a Chrysalis roll just to successfully enter it, so the higher your Chrysalis the better off you are. I would suggest 6 or 7 if you want to enter it, but even then the odds are against you. Also remember that if your character is new to the Teragen or has recently erupted he isn't likely to have much Chrysalis.If someone wants to undergo Chrysalis during downtime, but wants to wait until he has just a few more temp Chrysalis, then I'll roll for every month in the downtime period until he gets the next permanent point of Chrysalis, then he'll enter it.If your Chrysalis happens during play-time, then I'll allow you to play an NPC for that Chapter. It might be an NPC I created, an NPC from the books, or one you create. You'll have to discuss it with me based on the situation.Chrysalis during play-time might occur for one of two reasons. First, you choose to enter Chrysalis during the period of a Chapter so you can play another character (ask permission for this one). Or secondly, your character's Chrysalis takes so long it lasts into the next Chapter. I might be willing to cut a Chrysalis a few weeks short or extend it a little longer if it fits our/my needs.Remember that while in a Chrysalis, another character watches over your frail cocoon. You should find someone you trust not only to protect you from harm, but to not kill you. And if you undergo your first Chrysalis, you'll need a Mentor or experienced Terat to guide you through it. You don't need the Mentor Background for this (if you have it, kudos), just a trusty Second or Third Stage Terat that is willing to teach you the process and watch over you.Opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 I still think that the plus 2 difficulty is harsh when you consider that all your xp could get wasted or worse still you could botch.,, Id reccommend spendin a wp point but even thats still a plus 1 diff. Anyone have the math on how many average successes you could get on a maxed chrys (of 9 perm)? What are the odds of all that time and xp getting wasted? A botched Chrysalis is pretty anticliactic considering it removes from play as well...,, what if you could spend more than 1 WP as Alex suggested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueNinja Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Other than the difficulty, it looks fine; IIRC even in the book it's against a +1 difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 book says +2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Green Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 The *really* harsh thing about the +2 Diff is you have to spend a point of willpower to even start the process, so in theory you can't spend another.That leaves you needing 3 succ on 5 or so dice, which means trying at Chrysalis 5 averages in a failure. Trying with Chrysalis 7 *still* averages in a failure. The easy way to deal with this is to allow the PCs to spend a point of willpower to start the process, and then let them spend another for one succ, so they only need 2 more succ on 5 dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 The *really* harsh thing about the +2 Diff is you have to spend a point of willpower to even start the process, so in theory you can't spend another.That leaves you needing 3 succ on 5 or so dice, which means trying at Chrysalis 5 averages in a failure. Trying with Chrysalis 7 *still* averages in a failure. The easy way to deal with this is to allow the PCs to spend a point of willpower to start the process, and then let them spend another for one succ, so they only need 2 more succ on 5 dice. ,, and what are those odds? (sorry, I could never sit through sadistic...er statistics..),,,, If Chrys happens mostly between sessions as plot advancement, do we really need to roll for entering it?,, Just another idea to toss out there....what if instead of accumulating and rolling its more of a process that reaches critical mass...So you are building up to it and at 10 it just happens. When it does you had better find an enclave quick. I kinda like this idea, but I just thought of it so there may be a flaw Im not seeing.,, What does everyone else think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueNinja Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 What does everyone else think? I think I don't want to be forced to accumulate seven aberrations and a +4 social difficulty just for some half-price XP buys. And I definately want to put Leiko through Chrysalis once. (Though probably only once.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I think I don't want to be forced to accumulate seven aberrations and a +4 social difficulty just for some half-price XP buys. And I definately want to put Leiko through Chrysalis once. (Though probably only once.) ,, ::blink see...thats what I meant by flaws that I didnt see... ::biggrin ,, good point BN. so it seems that the most elegant solutions are to lower the difficulty, allow for more WP expenditure or both.,, How about...lower the difficulty by 1 (so we dont have to fudge the WP rules), have the WP point that you spend to enter it count as a success, AND we use BNs system of 3 levels of aberration per 1 Chrysalis actually entered...,,,, ???I guess that would mean you would need only 1 success on 5 dice....somebody help me out here since I really dont know the dice=successes ratios but that may be too easy. If it is, then how about the WP counts as a success and you need 2 more on the 5+ dice??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueNinja Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Alex, you do not have to burn a temp Willpower to enter Chrysalis; you have to be able to burn 10 quantum points, and then make the roll at +2.Ok, after getting my book and re-reading the relevant sections, may I suggest the following alternatives:1) Lower the difficulty to enter Chrysalis. It's already hard enough, make it a +1 difficulty so that characters who reach the requisite Chrys5 have at least an average chance.2) Reduce the penalty for failing the Chrysalis roll. Losing all your Chrysalis points is IMO a harsher penalty than having your Nature and Archetype change, as any good roleplayer can switch gears on a character. Instead, make the failure for failing the roll a loss of one permanent Chrysalis point, and the character must regain that Chrysalis point plus one more before another attempt can be made to enter Chrysalis. (IMO, this should not result in an additional aberration and social difficulty for the point regained; ie if you fail on a roll and go from Chrysalis 6 to Chrys 5, you should not be stuck with an additional aberration and +1 diff when you manage to get back to Chrys 6, however you'll be forced to get up to Chrys 7 and take another aberration before you can attempt Chrysalis again.)3) Let us burn an XP point for an automatic success on the Chrysalis roll. This IMO better reflects that your character has to force themselves to undergo the 'evolution' of Chrysalis. Yes, this would stack with burning Willpower, so that a character willing to drop a temporary Willpower and a loss of 1 XP would roll against a standard difficulty.I guess that would mean you would need only 1 success on 5 dice....somebody help me out here since I really dont know the dice=successes ratios but that may be too easy. If it is, then how about the WP counts as a success and you need 2 more on the 5+ dice??? A standard die gives you 0.4 successes on average; 5 dice give you 2 successes on average. So, if you roll against a +1 difficulty, with five dice, you will get it about half the time. To get a success more than half the time, against a +2 difficulty, means you have to be rolling 8 dice (for 3.2 successes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Thunder Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 Huh...maybe I'll just reduce the difficulty to +1. That way you need 2 successes instead of 3. Sounds fair to me. And I'm not keen on using Willpower to achieve an auto success, since Chrysalis seems like something too important and critical to just score an auto success on.Does that sound good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Huh...maybe I'll just reduce the difficulty to +1. That way you need 2 successes instead of 3. Sounds fair to me. And I'm not keen on using Willpower to achieve an auto success, since Chrysalis seems like something too important and critical to just score an auto success on.Does that sound good? I thought thats what spending WP was for...those critical times when you absolutely MUST succeed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I don't have much of an opinion on Chrysalis, but I do have one on spending Willpower. I think you should say, pretty much anything's fair game for a Willpower auto-success, but you have to actually roleplay the extraordinary effort. No more of this "this is important so I'll blow a WP" crap. Offenders fail to spend the willpower and don't get the bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Thunder Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 I thought thats what spending WP was for...those critical times when you absolutely MUST succeed...What I mean is that you'll be in Chrysalis for many many weeks, so the game designers probably gave the +2 difficulty with the understanding that any smart person would use a Willpower point. I mean...you're gonna be in Chrysalis, why save your Willpower right? I'm basically erasing the need to spend the Willpower point by just reducing the difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 With the negative outcome possible being so extreme i would spend a WP even if the difficulty is at +1....the consequences of failure are too high to not give such a feat every ounce of determination... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Green Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Alex, you do not have to burn a temp Willpower to enter Chrysalis; you have to be able to burn 10 quantum points, and then make the roll at +2.Correct, my bad. A standard die gives you 0.4 successes on average; 5 dice give you 2 successes on average. So, if you roll against a +1 difficulty, with five dice, you will get it about half the time.It's very useful for these sorts of things if we figure out the odds exactly.For 5 dice, +2 Diff...Chances of a Botch: ZERO! (We're going to spend Willpower). Now lets look at the dice;Chances of zero succ on 5 dice: 7.8%Chances of 1 succ: 25.9%Chances of 2 succ: 34.6%Chances of 3 succ: 23.0%Chances of 4 succ: 7.7%Chances of 5 succ: 1.0%Chances of at least 2 succ on 5 dice: 66.3%And in case anyone is interested,Chances of at least 2 succ on 6 dice: 76.7%Conclusion: On 5 dice you win two thirds of the time. On 6 you win three fourths of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueNinja Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 What I mean is that you'll be in Chrysalis for many many weeks, so the game designers probably gave the +2 difficulty with the understanding that any smart person would use a Willpower point. I mean...you're gonna be in Chrysalis, why save your Willpower right? I'm basically erasing the need to spend the Willpower point by just reducing the difficulty. What about the penalty for failing the roll? Are you going with the rather overwhelming penalty in the Teragen book, or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Green Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Chances of at least 2 succ on 5 dice: 66.3%Chances of at least 2 succ on 6 dice: 76.7%Conclusion: On 5 dice you win two thirds of the time. On 6 you win three fourths of the time.Huh...maybe I'll just reduce the difficulty to +1. That way you need 2 successes instead of 3. Sounds fair to me. And I'm not keen on using Willpower to achieve an auto success, since Chrysalis seems like something too important and critical to just score an auto success on. Does that sound good?If you fail on 5 dice then there's a 60% that this failure is also a Botch (although interestingly that only rises to 67% with 6 dice).To be clear, the odds of botching with 5 dice is 4.7% (one in 21) and with 6 dice it's 3.1% (one in 32).However, we have 9 PCs, so we could end up having 10 or so attempts. The means that the odds of at least one of us botching are actually pretty good... roughly 40% at 5 dice and 30% with 6.Conclusion: The PCs are *much* better off with a +2 Diff where they can spend willpower than with +1 Diff where they can't.As for the ugly effects of (simple) failure... I don't recall the effects off hand, but I do remember it's a lot less than termination of character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 ...,, "a failure means the Chrysalis fails; all Chrysalis points are lost and the character gains a point of permanent Taint." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Green Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 "a failure means the Chrysalis fails; all Chrysalis points are lost and the character gains a point of permanent Taint."OK, so not too bad. Statistically this means one out of three attempts will fail, so as long as you reduce your Perm Taint by 1, either every Chrysalis or every other Chrysalis, you come out ahead in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Yeah, losing all of your Chrys might suck though if you keep the aberrations and social penalties AND have to gain more just to build back up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Green Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Yeah, losing all of your Chrys might suck though if you keep the aberrations and social penalties AND have to gain more just to build back up...That's an argument for trying it with 5 dice rather than 6.With 5 dice you're stuck with 2 minor aberrations of your choice, and a +1 diff. Eventually you can try again with another 5 dice.With 6 dice we're starting to get into serious penalities. +2 Diff, Medium aberrations. One Medium aberration by itself is roughly equal to two minor ones.To put that a different way, two attempts with 5 dice gives you the same amount of social difficulty and the same number of aberrations as one attempt with 6 dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 ...that's interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Thunder Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 Huh...well alright then, spending Willpower is okay. More than okay.I'm wondering...what would the odds be like if the difficulty was +1 with 5 or 6 dice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Green Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 If you mean, +1 Diff without Willpower, then the odds are exactly the same since we are (again) talking about 2 succ needed with 5 (or 6 dice).If you mean, +1 Diff with Willpower, then we only need one succ (we pay for the other) so for 5 dice, the odds increase by 25.9% (see page 1).Chances of success with +1 Diff on X Dice, assuming Willpower can be spent:5 Dice: 92.2%6 Dice: 95.3% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Thunder Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 Well I'm not a total asshat today, so let's go with +1 difficulty, and you can spend a Willpower point.5% chance of failure...sounds more reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fox Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Well I'm not a total asshat today, so let's go with +1 difficulty, and you can spend a Willpower point.5% chance of failure...sounds more reasonable.Not sure I care to do this, but was someone saying that we could save our XP from creation for use during a chrysalis after chapter 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Thunder Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 Yes, you can save your XP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Yes, you can save your XP. thats one way to buy Q6 early on in the game... ::ohmy ::tongue ::smile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Green Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 thats one way to buy Q6 early on in the game... ::ohmy ::tongue ::smileAlthough BT hasn't said anything, as I recall, one of BN's rules for the starting exp was NOT spending any of it for Q6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Although BT hasn't said anything, as I recall, one of BN's rules for the starting exp was NOT spending any of it for Q6. that is correct, which is what made me think of it...BTs game though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Thunder Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 Hmmm...how about this...Q6 cannot be gained until after Chapter 3 (I might change this). That sounds decent enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Yay! Blue Thunder is back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 So, BlueNinja and I were talking the other day and he mentioned something in passing that I thought would be an aweosme addition to our Chrysalis house rules. Apparently in his table top game, players are allowed to swap out powers, in addition to just being able to buy more.. This is a great idea as in real life, a caterpillar isnt just "adding powers" like flight etc. but actually transmogrifying its existing nature and structure. Somehow this just feels really right with a Terat's Chrysalis, especially if the BIg C changes the nature or archetype of the character.Players, Blue Thunder...what do you think of this idea? (In lieu of a poll Im just going to ask...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centimane Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 So, BlueNinja and I were talking the other day and he mentioned something in passing that I thought would be an aweosme addition to our Chrysalis house rules. Apparently in his table top game, players are allowed to swap out powers, in addition to just being able to buy more.. This is a great idea as in real life, a caterpillar isnt just "adding powers" like flight etc. but actually transmogrifying its existing nature and structure. Somehow this just feels really right with a Terat's Chrysalis, especially if the BIg C changes the nature or archetype of the character.Players, Blue Thunder...what do you think of this idea? (In lieu of a poll Im just going to ask...)I'm fine with that, I've talked with BN about it as well, and I thought it was kind of neat. ::cool But whatever BT thinks is appropriate. I'm not picky. ::happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Thunder Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 I think we've mucked enough with Chrysalis. I'd rather keep it where it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Awww.... ::sad .,,,, I had some great ideas for some quantum transmogrification of Envy's q-sig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Thunder Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 Oh yeah, you guys remembered that Chrysalis creates social penalties just like Taint, right? And that they stack together? And that Chrysalis also gives you aberrations just like Taint does, right? So if you choose a Chrysalis above 5, you get an aberration for it.Just checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Green Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 you get an aberration for it.Of the PC's choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Thunder Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Alex wants tentacles... ::sly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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