Aberrant RPG - Most Powerful Characters "Legit" Characters

[Jenacis]

Basically, I was rereading some of the books, and I grew curious as to who the most powerful characters in the game are that White Wolf has released stats for. Mal and Pax don't count(Their descriptions in Worldwide: Phase I could be "incomplete" at best) but besides that, who are the most powerful characters in terms of NP? Here're the guidelines I used to calculate NP cost.

1.) Eliminate their bonus points in this order.

• Quantum
• Willpower
• Attributes
• Abilities

That is, pretend that they spend their 15 bonus points on quantum before they'd spend it on willpower, etc. If you only have two BPs left over, ignore them. I'm not looking for intimate detail here, just decent. 2 BP doesn't really matter.

2.) Wrongly(And knowingly) assume the character's stats came purely from eruption - even if the storyline says otherwise. I.E - Gabriel Melchior, from WW: Phase I, has a taint of 7, and it's mentioned he achieved it through pushing his powers, utopia driving him with long hours, etc. - ignore that, and pretend he just bought he power tainted.

3.) When taking taint into account, treat their most expensive items as tainted first. That is, quantum, level 3 powers, etc.

4.) Assume that Level 4, 5, and 6 powers cost 7, 9, and 11 points per dot - and yes, I made up those costs.

Eh, that's good enough. Again, I'm really just curious here. I haven't calculated Melchior yet, but I know that

Totentanz costs upwards of 160 NP

Montressor costs upwards of 150 NP

BTW, don't forget to count a 2nd level power as a 3rd if it has an extra on it.

[BlueNinja]

Anteus is ahead of Totentanz from sheer power, because he's one of the few novas in the world with Q7. In 2008, while he doesn't have Ecological Supremacy, he does at least nave Nature Mastery, probably with the Mastery extra, and probably Weather Manip, Elemental Mastery (Earth), and Molecular Manip on top of those.

I thought T's edge was mostly his Analyze Weakness, ranged Q-Leech, and Strategic Genius, but he wasn't all that powerful. What kind of stuff are you giving him?

[Jenacis]

I'm talking about characters that White Wolf has provided stats for. Totentanz, in the Elites book, has full stats - all his abilities, attributes, powers, etc - have been fleshed out. Antaeus may be described in numerous points(and I think it's obvious that Ecological Supremacy was designed with him in mind) but his stats are never explicitly written down. Totentanz's are.

I don't doubt that Antaeus is stronger than Totentanz - but that's not what I'm askin'.

[Alex Green]

I've tried stat-ing out Mal once or twice and it is fairly possible with some assumptions.

1) Anything on his "Short List" is something he's good at. i.e. mastery and four dots.

2) 8 dots of "Plasma" powers (EM & EA).

3) Read the discriptions of what he can do and then convert them into the power descriptions in the APG.

4) Realize that this is an underestimate.

The results were still really, really grim... it's been a long time but I think it was around 1000 nova points and a soak of 1000.

As for everyone else, I think Totentanz has everyone beat as far as book characters. The problem is he has a large number of alternative methods of killing you.

1) Ambush assassination.

2) Ping Damage.

3) Q-Leech (fight him without your pool).

4) Disorient (fight him without any willpower).

And he's a brick, immune to most of the alternative attacks (including mental attacks) and fights smart. In theory someone with Disintegration could get lucky and one punch him, but short of that I don't see how he could be beaten in the field short of nuclear weapons.

[SkyLion]

I've tried stat-ing out Mal once or twice and it is fairly possible with some assumptions.

1) Anything on his "Short List" is something he's good at. i.e. mastery and four dots.

2) 8 dots of "Plasma" powers (EM & EA).

3) Read the discriptions of what he can do and then convert them into the power descriptions in the APG.

4) Realize that this is an underestimate.

The results were still really, really grim... it's been a long time but I think it was around 1000 nova points and a soak of 1000.

As for everyone else, I think Totentanz has everyone beat as far as book characters. The problem is he has a large number of alternative methods of killing you.

1) Ambush assassination.

2) Ping Damage.

3) Q-Leech (fight him without your pool).

4) Disorient (fight him without any willpower).

And he's a brick, immune to most of the alternative attacks (including mental attacks) and fights smart. In theory someone with Disintegration could get lucky and one punch him, but short of that I don't see how he could be beaten in the field short of nuclear weapons.

,,

leech him first from far away, have lots of soak and hit him hard.

[Nullifier]

leech him first from far away, have lots of soak and hit him hard.

He's got Leech at a high level with the energy siphon extra, so leeching him hardly helps, but you can at least fight the leech, I suppose. Fortunately, his mainp+disorient dicepool is rather low (only 5 dice), so that's not a huge issue, and there are ways to detect invisble characters, or at least prevent ambush. Personally, I'd Disrupt the FF, Q-Vamp the Mega-Dex at range, and blast him with Q-bolts, while tracking him with IR goggles and having a couple of brick distract him. ::biggrin

[Alex Green]

...Fortunately, his mainp+disorient dicepool is rather low (only 5 dice), so that's not a huge issue,...

It's resisted by willpower. So he uses find weakness on your willpower and now you are resisting with -4 or -5 willpower dice.

He's got Leech at a high level with the energy siphon extra, so leeching him hardly helps...but you can at least fight the leech, I suppose.

And he has lots of Q-Regen so it's really not going to help.

... and there are ways to detect invisble characters, or at least prevent ambush. Personally, I'd Disrupt the FF, Q-Vamp the Mega-Dex at range, and blast him with Q-bolts, while tracking him with IR goggles and having a couple of brick distract him. ::biggrin

IR goggles give you one extra die to see him. Bricks won't "distract" him since he's a tactical god. Disrupting the FF will be hard since you need 5 or so succ over his Q+Node roll (implying a massive amount of Mega-Int or multiple disrupters). Q-Vamping the Mega-Dex at range implies a massive amount of Mega-Dex on your part because he gets a dodge (ditto Q-Bolt). And then you'd need a large soak yourself since he's got 5 or so actions to unload on you.

OK, the first thing you need is some way to counter Ambush. Intuition is most common but might not give you enough time to bring all your defenses on line. You also need to shut down his multiple attacks, probably the best way to do that is Immolate. Alternatively, he can't fly so if you do so that deals with a lot right there. He also can't soak Aggravated.

I think Lotus Infinite comes closest to being able to deal with him, at least in theory. She flies, she has lots of mega-dex, she also has lots of Disin. Disin's big advantage over the other Aggravated attacks is dodging only slightly reduces the damage, so if she nails him he just dies. She still needs to avoid ambush and maybe do something about his invisibility (or she might do a powermax and put area on her disin).

[SkyLion]

And he has lots of Q-Regen so it's really not going to help.

Q-regen works by the hour and adds to your normal regeneration...which you must be somewhat relaxed to acomplish (per a recent discussion with BlueNinja). My favorite way to deal with Totentanz is to fly, locate him with Q-Attune (yes this gets expensive but...) and then use an area effect q-leech to zap him. disruption aint a bad idea along with superior mega-intelligence to outthink him. Alex all of your suggestions are superb. ::laugh

OK, the first thing you need is some way to counter Ambush. Intuition is most common but might not give you enough time to bring all your defenses on line. You also need to shut down his multiple attacks, probably the best way to do that is Immolate. Alternatively, he can't fly so if you do so that deals with a lot right there. He also can't soak Aggravated.

Id like to take the opportunity to say that I believe in gaming (read ST) karma and wont take an aggravated attack unless I too can soak it...

[Alex Green]

You simply are not going to be able to shut down Tot with Q-Leech, even with Q-Leech+Area. He has 4 dots of it himself and if you are in range to get him, then he is in range to get you. On of the issues I think we aren't dealing with is that if he thinks he's going to lose, he will just run away. This implies he gets put down in one fell swoop, which brings us back to Disin.

Although no one has mentioned the other way to deal with him, which is to hire him to do something, say through BN's CTT gate, and then just leave him there.

[SkyLion]

Alex is an evil genius... ::devil

,,

upon further thought...would competeing q-leech work like Mega Atts where whoever is higher trumps the other?

[Alex Green]

Don't think so. It's resisted by Q+Node I think. Both of you use it and both of you have it take effect. The problem is he's taking 9 (paying 1 to do so) and doing that much is really expensive.

[SkyLion]

...disrupt q-leech extra range (?) of course mega atts don't need quantum so might still be screwed... another fav tactic of mine is to let the leech think you're all dry, let them get close for the coup de grace and then hit them using reserves from eufiber or extra health levels...

[Alex Green]

Considering it's "T" we are talking about, I suspect he knows enough to drain the eufiber first, and he's probably seen the burn health levels trick. Actually if I were him I'd drain you and then go away for a small amount of time to let your "per scene" stuff drop (if you're known to have any). Another obnoxious trick he could pull is to close with you, attack once or twice, and then move away before your init comes up. Of course if I were T I'd also buy Hardbody.

[SkyLion]

There is a saying in martial arts that "speed kills." The faster more manueverable fighter always wins. I think this is adequately represented by the Mega-Dex system as well as some of those Mega-Wits Enhancements. Maybe none of them were published and they may not have the backing the the Big T has but I bet you there are Novas thoat could put a crimp in his game...Agg MentalBolt anyone?

[Alex Green]

Agg Mental Bolt would Bounce, big time.

"T" has 5 dots of Psi-Shield.

Without Hardbody he can't use his psi-soak, but he still gets the 10 auto-succ on willpower, and that's before his willpower roll as well. So He ignores the first 14 or so succ, so you'd need Mastery or Mastery x2.

As for Novas who'd be tough for him to deal with, it depends. If T is defending it turns most of his advantages on their head. For example H-move(running) + Clone + Mega-Str 5 + Temporal Acc (a PC of mine) would be really hard to do anything against. An army of 6 clones storm in from 500km away. They attack, lose, die... and then the process starts all over again in 6 or so hours. They might lose every battle but still win the war.

Another nova it'd be tough for him to deal with is the (Q-Bolt+XRange) + Mega-Perc 5 + In orbit.

[SkyLion]

Agg Mental Bolt would Bounce, big time.

"T" has 5 dots of Psi-Shield.

Without Hardbody he can't use his psi-soak, but he still gets the 10 auto-succ on willpower, and that's before his willpower roll as well. So He ignores the first 14 or so succ, so you'd need Mastery or Mastery x2.

As for Novas who'd be tough for him to deal with, it depends. If T is defending it turns most of his advantages on their head. For example H-move(running) + Clone + Mega-Str 5 + Temporal Acc (a PC of mine) would be really hard to do anything against. An army of 6 clones storm in from 500km away. They attack, lose, die... and then the process starts all over again in 6 or so hours. They might lose every battle but still win the war.

Another nova it'd be tough for him to deal with is the (Q-Bolt+XRange) + Mega-Perc 5 + In orbit.

,,

Actually Agg attacks ignore conventional defenses...in this case psi-shield (name 1 level 1 power that protects vs. agg...)

,,

He would need either impervious extra on his psi shield or Invulnerability: Mental. BTW this is how Anna DeVries keeps people like Totentanz in check...

[Alex Green]

Actually Agg attacks ignore conventional defenses...in this case psi-shield (name 1 level 1 power that protects vs. agg...),,

He would need either impervious extra on his psi shield or Invulnerability: Mental. BTW this is how Anna DeVries keeps people like Totentanz in check...

Half true. Agg attacks ignore soak, not defenses. You can still dodge (etc), and there is nothing that says you don't get a resistance roll for the resisted attacks.

Psi-Defence grants both soak (which is ignored in this case) and also auto-willpower-succ (which does). If "T" did get Hardbody or Imperv on his Psi-Shield then you'd need 24 or so succ before starting to injure him... but what he does have should work for anything short of Mastery.

Correction: After thinking about if for a bit, it is possible to work even this. Find Weakness is, like Mental-Blast, a Mega-Int enhancement. Use it on his Psi-Shield. Assuming a Mega-Int of 5 and Int of 5, you'd average 6.5 succ (call it 7). So that reduces "T"'s auto-willpower succ to 3. (I'm just not sure whether or not you can use it against someone's willpower). So this reduces his average mental succ to 7.

Further correction: After looking up Find Weakness IMHO this can't work. FW works on "Objects, Systems, and Procedures". Psi-Shield and Willpower aren't any of those. This also means that you can't use FW on someone's Forcefield seperately than on his Stamina soak. A PC is an object so you'd get only one roll.

[Blue Thunder]

Um...what if you just Mega-Socialed him into defeat? Psychic Shield does not protect someone from Mega-Socials. He's described as being emotionally vacant, but I'm sure he couldn't resist someone like Geisha. Geisha would mold him like clay, given enough time. A Mega-Social at 4 or 5 can really be a force to be reckoned with. A nova with Mega-Appearance and Charisma at 5 just might be able to reach Klaus, deep within Totentanz, and affect him where he's probably weakest: his emotions.

Or, a Mega-Intelligent nova could make some kind of gadget that can inhibit some of T's powers.

Personally, I would think you'd need more than just combat abilities to get Totentanz down. Affect him in between battles so that in battle he's at slight disadvantage of some kind. Also, wait until he's been worn down some by other novas. If you're really devoted, catch him after he's just battled a few powerful elites in combat, then have a bunch of hired nova elites fight him. Then you (or your group) can mob him as well, either before or after your hired elites.

I guess he could just flee...but that's what Immolate, Disrupt, Teleport, Warp, Quantum Vampire (Dexterity or Wits), Hypermovement, Flight, Gravity Manipulation (Gravitic Field), and Temporal Manipulation (Dilate Time, Stop Time) are for. All at the same time against him. 'Cause Totentanz is a badass like that.

There's always a fusion warhead.

[Guest]

The "animal" ~_-

[Nullifier]

Q-Vamping the Mega-Dex at range implies a massive amount of Mega-Dex on your part because he gets a dodge (ditto Q-Bolt).

Erm. Why exactly would he get a dodge against a ranged Q-vamp? It's not like it's something visible being shot at him, so there's nothing to dodge. Seems like as long as he's in range, it'd work. As for the Q-Bolt, once his Mega-Dex is gone, he won't be dodging very well, will he?

It's resisted by willpower. So he uses find weakness on your willpower and now you are resisting with -4 or -5 willpower dice.

Find Weakness doesn't work against willpower, only things, people, and systems.

And he has lots of Q-Regen so it's really not going to help.

Read the power again, Alex. It's useless in short-term combat.

IR goggles give you one extra die to see him.

Sonar goggles, or Q-Attune then.

Bricks won't "distract" him since he's a tactical god.

Just because he knows they're distractions doesn't mean he doesn't have to dodge them and attack them to keep them from killing him.

Disrupting the FF will be hard since you need 5 or so succ over his Q+Node roll (implying a massive amount of Mega-Int or multiple disrupters).

His Q+node pool is only 7, giving an average of 2-3 success, so it's not all that impossible to overcome, especially on a powermax.

Finally, I noticed you were saying that Q-Leech is resisted by Q+Node, but actually, it's resisted by willpower.

Cheers. ::biggrin

[Alex Green]

Find Weakness doesn't work against willpower, only things, people, and systems.

Agreed & noted above.

Just because he knows they're distractions doesn't mean he doesn't have to dodge them and attack them to keep them from killing him.

Yes but if they are going to be that much of a problem he'll deal with one and then run away. That's one of his big things.

His Q+node pool is only 7, giving an average of 2-3 success, so it's not all that impossible to overcome, especially on a powermax.

So you need 8 succ for Disrupt to work. That still sounds pretty hard.

Finally, I noticed you were saying that Q-Leech is resisted by Q+Node, but actually, it's resisted by willpower.

Also agreed.

Erm. Why exactly would he get a dodge against a ranged Q-vamp? It's not like it's something visible being shot at him, so there's nothing to dodge. Seems like as long as he's in range, it'd work.

1) There's nothing about Q-Vamp specifically that says or implies it's invisible. It's just a normal power.

2) Granted, a PC could define it as an "invisible" power (just like he could Q-Bolt) but that isn't supposed to confer a bonus (an "invisible" Q-Bolt can still be dodged).

3) Core book, Page 178, (Power: General Rules section) ...ranged powers can be dodged.

4) Quantum Vampire (without range) already allows for a dodge in addition to be resisted. Just because you now have to roll dex to hit (which you did before) doesn't imply it can't be dodged anymore.

[Jenacis]

This has gotten a bit off-topic... Oh well.

[Alex Green]

This has gotten a bit off-topic... Oh well.

I think the general conclusion was that Totentanz is the most powerful "Legit" character. Let's put it this way, I don't think any other legit character can beat him.

[Jenacis]

I wasn't going so much in terms of usefulness or "if you dropped these characters into an arena and said made them fight who would win" - I was going strictly by nova points. I wanted to know the NP amounts(Approx, of couse) of the high-end novas created by WW that have book-obtainable stats.

[Blue Thunder]

Too bad no one was statted in the Teragen book (except three 30-point sample characters). I'm sure Geryon and Shrapnel would have been high on the list.

[Alex Green]

I'm less sure. Geryon mostly deals with baselines, ditto Shrapnel. The book makes mention of the big guy going one on four without going totally defensive, but which four? Larry, Curly, & Moe? He did reasonably well against a group of T2M types (before he ran away), but T2M types get killed against elites.

[Nullifier]

Erm. Why exactly would he get a dodge against a ranged Q-vamp? It's not like it's something visible being shot at him, so there's nothing to dodge. Seems like as long as he's in range, it'd work.

1) There's nothing about Q-Vamp specifically that says or implies it's invisible. It's just a normal power.

2) Granted, a PC could define it as an "invisible" power (just like he could Q-Bolt) but that isn't supposed to confer a bonus (an "invisible" Q-Bolt can still be dodged).

3) Core book, Page 178, (Power: General Rules section) ...ranged powers can be dodged.

4) Quantum Vampire (without range) already allows for a dodge in addition to be resisted. Just because you now have to roll dex to hit (which you did before) doesn't imply it can't be dodged anymore.

Hrm. k. Area, then.

I think the general conclusion was that Totentanz is the most powerful "Legit" character. Let's put it this way, I don't think any other legit character can beat him.

That's a broad generalization. There are certainly a few legit characters that could beat Totentanz, given the right circumstances. ::rolleyes

[Alex Green]

Hrm. k. Area, then.

A few posts ago we were talking about this guy having a group of bricks with him distracting “T”. Area Q-Vampire isn’t going to make him real popular. But it does give us a rough outline of a character that might give T a run for his money.

Q-Attune from a gadget

Q-Vamp(Dex)+Area

Disrupt

Something to warn him of Ambush (Intuition)?

Flight.

Maybe Q-Bolt.

Problem #1: No defenses. We can’t really give him a Forcefield. With Ambush possible we don’t want to over burden him with Maint powers. Let’s give him 3 dots in INV:BC:Physical, Mega-Stamina 3 (Resist x2, Regen), & 5 dots of Eufiber. This also prevents T from just taking a rifle and shooting us, & making our Intuition activate and Force us to turn on Q-Vamp.

Problem #2: Range isn’t in his favor. Q-Attune has a limited range, Ditto Q-Vamp, T’s Q-Leech is 90m. In theory Flight compensates somewhat for this, you try to see where he is Leeching you and fly in that Direction and use Q-Vamp. In Practice since Q-Attune isn’t going to help we might as well use Blind Fighting, but this might require a fair amount of Mega-Perception to overcome T’s Catfooted. Note because of range issues IMHO we are going to have to have a *lot* of Q-Vamp. Q5 with one 1 gives us an area of effect of only 30m (centered on the Nova). Flight lets us move… shoot, I don’t remember, isn’t it about 50m? Of course the other good thing about Q-Vamp is it’s duration is one hour per dot and using it will give us lots of Dex.

Problem #3: Disrupt needs lots of succ. For the math to work we need a Mega-Int of 5.

Summary:

INV:BC:Physical 3

Mega-Int 5 (might as well be Find Weakness)

Mega-Stamina 3 (Resist x2, Regen)

Mega-Perception 3 (Blindfighting: Although I didn’t do the Math on this)

Q-Vamp+Area 5

Disrupt 1

Flight ?

Intuition

Q-Bolt

So it’s roughly 100 nova points. I guess the real question is whether it could be done for less. Maybe Drop Q-Vamp by a few dots and buy Hypermove?

That's a broad generalization. There are certainly a few legit characters that could beat Totentanz, given the right circumstances. ::rolleyes

Granted, this is a very broad generalization, but on the other hand many of the ‘right circumstances’ are fairly iffy. Geisha could Mega-Social him into surrendering… but if combat has started she won't get the chance. Count O could get him to do something shocking by talking to him at a party. Lotus could flat out kill him if she gets the chance in combat (total surprise for example). A Mega-Int could use a nuke or a Cyber-K could reprogram the Directive’s Orbital Rail gun.

Meaning that while a lot of characters could, in theory, deal with him under the right circumstances, normally “T” can deal with them under what passes for normal circumstances for him.

[Nullifier]

So it’s roughly 100 nova points. I guess the real question is whether it could be done for less. Maybe Drop Q-Vamp by a few dots and buy Hypermove?

Gee, Alex, that's an awful lot of unwarranted assumptions you just made there from the little information I

gave you. ::brick So yeah, I'd say it could be done for a lot less, you just have to get a lot more creative than that expensive and ineffective write-up. ::rolleyes ::tongue

[phoenix]

*sways on his feet alarmingly*

WHY DID I AGREE TO TAKE A SHOT EVERY TIME ALEX AND NULLIFIER ARGUE ::wacko

[Alex Green]

Gee, Alex, that's an awful lot of unwarranted assumptions you just made there from the little information I gave you. ::brick So yeah, I'd say it could be done for a lot less, you just have to get a lot more creative than that expensive and ineffective write-up. ::rolleyes ::tongue

I quite agree with all of this. What can I say, he got expensive, and I had to make assumptions based on assumptions based on assumptions? ::blush ::laugh ::tongue

Granted, this attempt wasn't all that successfull, and also granted that's mostly my doing as I walked him down a path much further than reasonable, but I dare say he might get the job done and he does establish a point value lower than T's own (which is even more expensive). If anyone else (including Null and/or myself) feels like giving it another try feel free.

IMHO the real issue is whether or not it can be done for any reasonable level of points. A 30 point PC would be extremely difficult... and perhaps impossible without unrealistic assumptions. But it would be interesting to try.

[Centimane]

Well I noticed that no one's posted on this thread for a while, but here goes anyway. ::indifferent

I'm responding to the original post concerning the actual nova points needed to create the officially statted characters in the various WW Aberrant books (i.e. the number of nova points you'd need to create the same or equally powerful characters). I decided to stick with either well known main characters or characters that were obviously quite powerful, so this is by no means an extensive list, nor are they exact down to the last freebie point, but the numbers are close enough.

So, without further any further ado, here they are:

Pratima “Splash” Basham: 71 points (Aberrant: Project Utopia)

Peter “Thorn” Knorr: 88 points (Aberrant: Project Utopia)

Ricardo Montoya-Bernal: 95 points (Aberrant: Project Utopia)

Ichiko “Geisha” Iko: 119 points (Aberrant: Project Utopia)

Radu “Impaler” Szlaniskovich: 149 points (Aberrant: WorldWide Phase II)

Montressor: 157 points (Aberrant: Project Utopia)

Totentanz (the one everybody's been talking about): 179 points (Aberrant: Elites)

A couple of things I realized/noticed while statting these guys out:

1) why is it that almost none of the official characters make any use of good mega-attribute+power combos? Is it just me or do they need to rethink some of their point allocations? (pro'lly just me...) ::glare

2) A list of effective powers/attributes/enhancements for blocking/circumventing Totentanz: Invulnerability (quantum leech), Mega-Dex (just to stand a chance up close), Mega-Perception with Attunement/Enhanced Hearing+decent Node background (allowing you to sense/hear Tot even when invisible, cause he doesn't have the enhanced effect extra). None of these were specifically mentioned on previous posts (least, I don't remeber them being posted), and they would remove his "aces in the hole" so to speak, but you'd still have to deal his speed, strength, and tactical genius. Oh well...... ::sad

[Alex Green]

Pratima “Splash” Basham: 71 points (Aberrant: Project Utopia)

Peter “Thorn” Knorr: 88 points (Aberrant: Project Utopia)

Ricardo Montoya-Bernal: 95 points (Aberrant: Project Utopia)

Ichiko “Geisha” Iko: 119 points (Aberrant: Project Utopia)

Radu “Impaler” Szlaniskovich: 149 points (Aberrant: WorldWide Phase II)

Montressor: 157 points (Aberrant: Project Utopia)

Totentanz (the one everybody's been talking about): 179 points (Aberrant: Elites)

1) why is it that almost none of the official characters make any use of good mega-attribute+power combos? Is it just me or do they need to rethink some of their point allocations? (pro'lly just me...) ::glare

Ricardo does have the Mega-Dex to back up his “Bounce”… but we still have the issue that he’s low low soak for a Brawler.

Geisha is OK.

Impaler is OK but his big attack is based on a misinterpretation of how Claws+Agg works. Also he’s a generalist, not a specialist.

Totentanz is OK.

Splash is another Mega-Dex character, which backs up her Bolt & Flight. While she could use Mega-Int to back up her Alter Weather tech IMHO she doesn’t really need it.

As I recall Montressor’s big mega is Mega-Wits (5 dots), which he uses to write status reports as it backs up nothing that he has. On the other hand this just means that it’s at least possible to take him down, but still extremely hard.

I don’t recall if Thorn has issues.

IMHO the big stand out for being ill formed is Ricardo (Montressor is so point heavy his mis-match matters less). While RMB’s Stats match up, he’s still going to get killed if he takes a punch from a heavy, and duking it out with heavies is his job.

2) A list of effective powers/attributes/enhancements for blocking/circumventing Totentanz: Invulnerability (quantum leech), Mega-Dex (just to stand a chance up close), Mega-Perception with Attunement/Enhanced Hearing+decent Node background (allowing you to sense/hear Tot even when invisible, cause he doesn't have the enhanced effect extra). None of these were specifically mentioned on previous posts (least, I don't remeber them being posted), and they would remove his "aces in the hole" so to speak, but you'd still have to deal his speed, strength, and tactical genius. Oh well...... ::sad

INV: Q-Leech would work (one dot would be enough)… but I’m not sure having it helps. The problem is “T” is so lethal it’s hard to see how people survive the first round or two. IMHO Q-Leech helps “T” but it doesn’t really hurt anyone else because his targets normally die too quick.

Mega-Perception+Hearing wouldn’t help. “T” is maxed out for Stealth and has Catfooted to boot. To put that another way, although you’d get a roll (which granted is an improvement), you’d be unlikely to be successful. Even with 5 Mega-Perception and 5 Aware you’d still be [3] down and “T” wins any ties.

Node isn’t a targeting sense, and the range is pretty short, and it takes a deliberate action to use. Although knowing he is around helps, you’ll find that out when he attacks you.

In terms of point evaluation, the INV works (3 nova points) but (as you said) leaves us in the same situation of worrying about what to do about him.

[SkyLion]

Q-leech invulnerability is brilliant...I've been trying to come up with a defense for that little bugger of a power forever....so simple...so obvious...you rock! ::biggrin ::biggrin ::biggrin

,,

One of my characters from another game Im in was designed to (sort of) be able to deal with Totentanz, though mostly as a background element since that was 10,000 years ago so its unlikely to ever be put to the test. He is a sort of gravity manipulating brick with several advantages.

,,

1. He is smarter than T

2. He hyperflies.

3. He has Q-Attune.

,,

So he flies and searches for the distinctive Q-Sig of the invisible T, then zooms into range and uses an:

,,

4. Area Effect Q-leech while simultaneously immobilizing T with

5. A very strong crushing, area effect HIgh Gravity Field.

,,

If the no-longer-able-to-lift-his-own-pinky Totentanz doesn't surrender he gets slammed by the hypersonic flying house of bricks... ::ultracool

,,

Another possibilty for the question of how to actually deal with him is to match him for mega-dex and combat skills and simply have a higher soak with something like impervious that (should IMHO) negates ping damage.

[Centimane]

First off, thanks for the response. Second, SkyLion, thanks for the compliment! I feel all warm and fuzzy now! ::biggrin Third, after reading both of your responses (Alex Green and SkyLion), it became apparent that your mental prodigy: tactical enhancements are working much better than mine is. ::glare

One question though: I was under the impression that Hyper-enhanced Hearing endowed its owner with 3 extra dice for the purposes of sound-based awareness rolls, and that the Attunement enhancement allowed its owner to sense anything in his immediate environment with or without the use of any of his senses. Admittedly, this is no good at long range, but I was thinking more in terms of fighting him (or even just aiming) at him when he was at close to medium range.

Also, looking back I realize that I wasn't very clear in my comment about bad power+attribute combos. I was mostly talking about all of the other characters listed in the books. Specifically, those posted in Aberrant: Year One (IMHO some of the worst power combos ever, but that's just me).

One final thought: if you were to add Temporal Manipulation: Stop Time, and a Q-Bolt - and assuming you were able to see (or in some other way target) "T", do you think it'd work to freeze him, move immediately behind him, and blast him with the Q-bolt (while maxing like your life depends on it!) immediately after unfreezing him? Just a thought, not real sure that it would work, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway. ::ultracool

[Alex Green]

I was under the impression that Hyper-enhanced Hearing endowed its owner with 3 extra dice for the purposes of sound-based awareness rolls…

Sure it does.

With M-Dex 5, Stealth 5, & Catfooted "T" gets 11.5 succ on his stealth roll.

With M-Perc 5, Aware 5, & Hyper-Hearing, you get 9.7 succ to detect him.

Ignoring the stuff that balances out (the Mega-Dice, etc), you are putting 3 extra dice against his 3 extra auto-succ, and you lose any ties.

And this ignores that 5 dots of Mega-Perception is a very expensive power for an elite to have.

, and that the Attunement enhancement allowed its owner to sense anything in his immediate environment with or without the use of any of his senses. Admittedly, this is no good at long range, but I was thinking more in terms of fighting him (or even just aiming) at him when he was at close to medium range.

Q-Attune works great for countering Invisibility after you know he is there, but it doesn’t help you find him before that since you can’t keep it up all the time.

The problem is Quantum Attunement costs 1 qp per action (or maybe per round). A round is three seconds, so a full minute’s worth of scanning is 20 juice. If T is hiding behind a tree (or just not there), you are out of luck.

One final thought: if you were to add Temporal Manipulation: Stop Time, and a Q-Bolt - and assuming you were able to see (or in some other way target) "T", do you think it'd work to freeze him, move immediately behind him, and blast him with the Q-bolt (while maxing like your life depends on it!) immediately after unfreezing him? Just a thought, not real sure that it would work, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway. ::ultracool

Two really serious problems.

First, T has a willpower of 10, so attempts to T-Stop him need an average of 4 succ over and above the +2 diff that creating a T-Stop normally has. So you need 7 succ (I’ll assume you both spend willpower)… which is hard but not impossible. Back of the hand calc says 3 dots of Temporal Manip and 5 dots of Mega-Int would do it (although again we have the issue that 5 dots of Mega-Int is expensive for an elite).

Then you have the issue that objects in a T-Stop can’t be altered or effected in anyway since Time has halted for them. You Q-Bolt him inside a T-stop and he has infinite soak and doesn’t notice.

There are other things you could do, drop a mountain on him, Warp him to another planet, etc… but with Adaptability odds are good he’ll be back.

[SkyLion]

I think Alex just secretly harbors a crush on "T" ::sweetlove ::sly ::tongue

With M-Dex 5, Stealth 5, & Catfooted "T" gets 11.5 succ on his stealth roll.

With M-Perc 5, Aware 5, & Hyper-Hearing, you get 9.7 succ to detect him.

Ignoring the stuff that balances out (the Mega-Dice, etc), you are putting 3 extra dice against his 3 extra auto-succ, and you lose any ties.

And this ignores that 5 dots of Mega-Perception is a very expensive power for an elite to have.

,,

So Alex, how are you figuring this? Since Mega-Dice work the same way, 5 Dex, 5 M Dex and 5 Stealth gives the same as 5 Per, 5 M Per and 5 Awareness. Since T's invisibility isn't full spectrum as has been pointed out, the enhanced hearing (and likely vision with M Per that high) would equal out or exceed the catfooted. Im assuming he gets extra succ for invisibility yes? With a M Per that high all you woould need is some Telepathy to do a mind scan. Sure T has the 10 willpower and 5 psychic shield but with a dice pool that huge, and with all you needing is 1 success to get the general feel, theres a good chance of finding him, especially if you add a danger sense to know when he is about to strike and then use Q-Vision to find him. Once that big problem is solved, Immobilize, Gravity Field or the like will keep him pinned. I like the Drain Dex idea too.

,,

All this conversation proves is that any cheeser GM or Game Author can come up with an indomitable NPC who just happens to conveniently have every possible defense (White Wolf is notorrious for its unstoppable NPCs)...and that players can always come up with some way to nuetralize them....given enough XP...

,,

There are other things you could do, drop a mountain on him, Warp him to another planet, etc… but with Adaptability odds are good he'll be back.

,,

Warp+Mastery+extra:combat Warp. Target = Sol. ::devil

[Centimane]

Two really serious problems.

First, T has a willpower of 10, so attempts to T-Stop him need an average of 4 succ over and above the +2 diff that creating a T-Stop normally has. So you need 7 succ (I’ll assume you both spend willpower)… which is hard but not impossible. Back of the hand calc says 3 dots of Temporal Manip and 5 dots of Mega-Int would do it (although again we have the issue that 5 dots of Mega-Int is expensive for an elite).

Then you have the issue that objects in a T-Stop can’t be altered or effected in anyway since Time has halted for them. You Q-Bolt him inside a T-stop and he has infinite soak and doesn’t notice.

There are other things you could do, drop a mountain on him, Warp him to another planet, etc… but with Adaptability odds are good he’ll be back.

Regarding the T-Stop thing, what I meant was that you would move behind him, then turn off the T-Stop, while blasting him with your Q-Bolt. From T's perspective you've instantaneously appeared behind him with a Q-Bolt already in effect. If it's a decent Q-Bolt, and it's maxed out, and T has no warning, (wow that's a lot of commas!) then it's not going to be easy for him to successfully dodge/block/soak/whatever the damage that's hitting him like a "mountain" from behind. Not sayin' it's foolproof, just seemed like a particularly unusual and unexpected form of death. ::happy

And thanks for the responses too, nice to know someone cares. ::biggrin

[BlueNinja]

Regarding the T-Stop thing, what I meant was that you would move behind him, then turn off the T-Stop, while blasting him with your Q-Bolt. From T's perspective you've instantaneously appeared behind him with a Q-Bolt already in effect. If it's a decent Q-Bolt, and it's maxed out, and T has no warning, (wow that's a lot of commas!) then it's not going to be easy for him to successfully dodge/block/soak/whatever the damage that's hitting him like a "mountain" from behind. Not sayin' it's foolproof, just seemed like a particularly unusual and unexpected form of death. ::happy

And thanks for the responses too, nice to know someone cares. ::biggrin

I think the better way to take him out is to do an "Adam Bomb" - Warp, with Area Q-Bolt. Even if he dodges, he still takes damage - and if you open the Warp twenty meters above his head, you're out of range. If he runs, you open a new Warp. The only downside is that you'll run out of juice really freaking quickly.

Bomb bay doors opening, commencing bombing run now. ::devil

[SkyLion]

Actually, Alex had a great character from Heritage's War Journal campaign (was it actually the "Alex Green" character? can't quite recall, too lazy to look it up...)

,,

He was a mad bomber who had time-delayed area q-bolts and clone. He'ld send them off like suicide bombers.

,,

So....

,,

He has a clone hire a proxy to hire T to kill him and delivers false intelligence on where "He" will be. Since Clones are identical T wouldn't know the difference...when the elite zooms in for the kill (his quarry calmly reading a newspaper in the park) BLAMO!!!! Toasted Totentanz!

,,

Thanl you for paying. Be sure to tip your waitress. ::laugh