opnet [OpNet] Question for Mr. Chance

[Sakurako Hino]

Recently, I scanned through the 2 minutes hate board. You recently mentioned something about a contract you recieved from your employer. Since now I'm in the same company as you, I've heard no talk around the "watercooler" as it were. What happened?

[Fortune's Son]

That's because the jobs Jilly and I take are rarely things that get talked about around the water cooler. Triple blind operations, bleeding edge dangling threads, murky trails of ownership... That sort of thing.

The Jannissaries uncovered some interesting info during one of their ham fisted operations in south west Asia but sprang the trap almost immediately and got mired down in legal problems. Hence the change in contractors as Mr Johnson decided his investment and goals were better served with us.

Street intel fingered a nova named Khytam at the original Jannissary screw up so she got a warning. Turned out to be a coincidence in as much as she wasn't directly involved in the concerns of our Mr. Johnson. Don't bother with the database, there isn't much on her. She spent several years with the Uppies, mostly at Last Stop but that seems to have been a voluntary resident unlike most. In any case she never saw much play time with the Uppies and eventually wandered back to the zip sinkhole she was from.

We got to meet briefly in Marrakesh and found out we didn't really have a problem. She walked away while we took care of business. Here's an interesting piece of intel though; an uppie S&T medical team showed up on site within hours and wrapped a big ol' plastic bag over the whole mess. Not the medical teams that do charity work in the third world either. This was a team of para-physicians and a squad of uppie Peace Keepers.

Maybe Khytam dropped a dime on what was going down since she didn't owe us silence or a headstart. But when you start wondering what she was doing there to begin with you start wondering if maybe the Uppies already knew what was going on and were keeping tabs on the operation. Hearing we razed it to the ground must have keyed off a panic attack in somebody though considering the overt nature of the response.

Either way, somebody in the heavenly choir's got an interesting definition of "sacrifice".

[Sakurako Hino]

*sigh*

Sounds like one nasty quagmire of a situation. Your part in that situation completed and the contract fulfilled? Or are there still i's to be dotted and t's to be crossed?

As if something this big is EVER done. :roll eyes:

VB was telling me some of his war stories between training sessions. Let's just say my innocence on this line of work is out the window.

'nuff said.

[Fortune's Son]

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Sakura Hino:
Sounds like one nasty quagmire of a situation.

Nah, this was actually pretty straight forward compared to some. If it was an uppie sponsored or tacitly condoned operation they were keeping it on a very long leash and not paying attention until it was too late for anything but regret.

These zip monster were major league fanatics who thought some surplus military hardware was enough of an edge to compete. As near as we could piece together after the fact they took down a couple of "other company" brothers partying and... You sure you want to know what this was about, LNSE? This wasn't part of the obligation but it'll give you nightmares.

Seriously.

Your call but it was a little out there.

[Sakurako Hino]

I gotta know. I sorta realize just how cut-throat things sometimes get as a professional @$$kicker.

I gotta get brass sooner or later. What's the details? Perhaps, between training modules, we can sit down and share an ampwell or two. For old friends long gone?

[Fortune's Son]

What this filth was doing has nothing to do with being a professional trouble shooter. They were vermin and I've got the word out to some serious people that'll insure regular sweeps through the area at irregular intervals to take care of the ones that think they got away.

I'm not kidding about the nightmares. If you want to know I'll tell you but be advised you'll probably see this a little personally. Have you ever heard the term "Baraka"?

[Sakurako Hino]

O_o; Nani? Baraka? Nope... No recollection.

Shoulda kept my nose in the books... What's the dealie? As some inner-city types say.

[Apep]

Baraka is a muslim word meaning Blessing. So a blessing is a gift from god right? Well, there are those that choose to steal their blessings, and eat their blessing, all to be closer to god. I don't wish to go into it further. (sorry to butt in)

[Fortune's Son]

You're always welcome Apep. And I warned you, LNSE.

Let's talk about a Morrocan city called Marrakesh. LNSE, you're still young enough to barely remember the first of the eruptions, right? Many people, more every day, find it hard to remember what it was like before the Fireman. The world is now a place of heroes and villains, where demi-gods stride across the land wearing seven league boots and the sound of thunder echoes in their passing. The air is cleaner and water more pure than since before the start of the industrial revololution. Preston cruises around in a vehicle whose design broke the backs of the middle east power groups and people who were ready to wage war for their god suddenly had more pressing concerns. Like where the next meal was coming from and how to avoid becoming a nation left behind while the rest of the planet raced headlong into the future.

Marrakesh wants none of that. There's a lot of factors involved but Marrakesh is a place where traditions never die, rather they become stratified and rigid until the only good day was a generation ago. If there's a hypercombustion engine in the entire city I didn't see it although our job kept us in the beggar and temple sections of the city. Suffice to say; if you want pristine sterile paradise you go to Addis Abba. If you want chaos and the ultimate consumer market you go to Havana. If you want the past you go to Marrakesh.

Less than completely malignant a decade ago, that particular blend of shortsightedness and the climate of fanaticism has bred a deep anti-nova mindset. We're not welcome there though there isn't a single sign or graffiti scrawled in charcoal ash to indicate it.

We're flash and power, thunder and lightnting, myth and legend. Marrakesh wants none of it. The rest of the world may react to us with adoration or outright hatred but in that little corner of Morroco they want nothing to do with the modern world we epitomize. Maybe they recognize that we made the world around them or maybe they're just disgusted with what they can't be. Mileage varies but either way we're the ultimate outsider there and unwelcome. It also means that anyone else that wants nothing to do with us or the modern world gravitates to that sinkhole.

Don't get me wrong. Its not some comic "bad city" and the architecture is phenomenally beautiful if you like the art deco style from the '20s and early '30s. But these people loath us for what we are. Throw enough garbage in a hole and eventually something will decide its an ideal climate as it finds its niche.

Enter Baraka.

If you're going to do something bad to a nova then who's going to bother you in Marrakesh. One less devil in the world? Carry on, have a nice day and by the way tell your wife that her brother says hello. I don't know where these dirbags came from and with the mixture of ethnicity in the city it could have been a seed planted from elsewhere or it could have been a weed that germanated. We couldn't track the origins and had to make pick up after the Uppies turned up.

The cult takes the idea of baraka, which Apep is right about, and after adulterating it with the ideas of primitive magic they take it to the next logical conclusion. Want to be become greater than yourself? Then you must find that which has the qualities you want and consume the source of its power to take it into yourself.

Unlike the average citizen of the city the cultist see us as avatars and angels possessing more pure quantities of the spirit power of their deity. Does this sound a little like the new buddhism of your country? Only superficially. Remember what I said about primitive magic? If you want greater strength you eat muscle. Sexual performance, the genitals. Courage, the heart. Perception, the eyes. These aren't health nuts, Sakura. They're religious fanatics on the way to meeting god so they harvest the purest form of Baraka they know of.

There's one thing they don't harvest for themselves and that's all I'll say about what we were doing there except to note that if not for that connection we'd never have tumbled to the situation.

They were fanatics but depended more on ignorance than skill. Bad news for them. We gave them a taste of their own medicine, razed the site to the ground then salted the smouldering ashes. But don't kid yourself. Where there's one there's another. And where the practice has taken hold for one reason it will take hold for another. You should have seen the look on their faces when they saw us coming for them though. Priceless.

The next time you hear someone going on about how terrible Apep or Geryon are, how we need to learn to all get along... Well, those folks doing the talking are conveniently forgetting a thing or two about the zip world around them. I don't recommend spending down time in Marrakesh.

[Sakurako Hino]

...

I never thought there'd still be backward thinking people in this world. I thought China was bad. This just blew the roof off that notion. Humans eating Novas? Primative magic? Man, if there ever was a place to nuke from orbit, that's a sure fire candidate right there.

And they're NOTHING like the Kamisama Bhuddists. At least those Otaku no Nova worship you with respect for your body, mind, and spirit. Not EAT you... Not that I like 'em though. After I erupted almost 3 years ago, they were outside the manor, chanting, leaving offerings, burning incents. I couldn't get any decent sleep. Although the throbbing headache wasn't helping either.

That's why I follow the true shinto faith. Not the Nova as Kami BS that's being crammed down the throats of the Nihonjin.

I'm definately not a Kami, and I SURE as hell ain't Amaterasu.

As for going to the place where the food most likely is a nova you once knew... No way I'll be there. Besides, I hear they still make women wear burquas there.

And if I see one of those ****s, I'll blast first, then run.

[Fortune's Son]

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Man, if there ever was a place to nuke from orbit, that's a sure fire candidate right there.

Show me the button to push.

Realistically though, the real concern isn't Marrakesh, at least not at the moment. Rather, its the capacity for delusion and willing ignorance that made what they were doing possible. This particular group is now aware of that what they were doing falls under the heading of "bad thing". We took special care to insure that everyone would bear a special "remembrance" with the exception of Khytam and a handful of the "faithful" that didn't make it.

Personally, and I say this knowing a half dozen people will disagree, I recognized the look I saw in each pair of their eyes. Call it fanaticism, rapture or any of a hundred other names but I've seen it before in a hundred cities across the planet in a thousand pairs of eyes.

Addiction.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Ick. Sounds like a job for a natural disaster. About four clones should do it.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Chance:
Call it fanaticism, rapture or any of a hundred other names but I've seen it before in a hundred cities across the planet in a thousand pairs of eyes.

Addiction.

Just another example of how baseline humanity is unable to deal with our presence and retain their integrity. I dislike shouting into the wind, so I shall keep this short. What more needs to happen for us to realize that we only harm them and they only pull us down? We really need to make an effort to disassociate ourselves from them completely.

[Fortune's Son]

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We really need to make an effort to disassociate ourselves from them completely.

Yeah, someone else made a very similar statement to me recently. At the time I took it as crash, that post-mission let down people experience after an op, but now I think she was just being honestly insightful.

They feed off us, use us, abuse us and complain about that we're not being better than human but bitch when we try to become so. They wax eloquent on the virtue and nobility of humanity and then demonize the inconvenient nova that doesn't want to play the game. Humanity is becoming the lowest common denominator and the definition of "hero" and "monster" are gradually becoming a question of whether you're willing to sink to their level.

[Sakurako Hino]

Jack: It's the little pink button on the left. But seriously, this is a situation that threatens novas. What if the radicals decide to spread this? This could cause a blight on novakind. The like of which no one has seen since World War Two.

Dr. Troll: *grins* Well, the big green machine could do it. Just do it fast, and don't leave any of 'em behind. Or we'll have to deal with the left overs.

[Guest]

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Originally posted by James 'Prodigy' Meehan:
We really need to make an effort to disassociate ourselves from them completely.

I don't understand, how is that supposed to help? I've been sheltered from the rest of the world my whole erupted life, I don't remember any other life, and now that I'm out in the world I find that everything I thought the world would be like is wrong. How is the dissapearance of Novas going to help baselines?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Originally posted by Seven:
[QBHow is the dissapearance of Novas going to help baselines?[/QB]

Is that even possible? More novas are errupting at a rate of 1,000? a year or so. Even if all of us left (where?), the same situation would be recreated wouldn't it?

[Fortune's Son]

Seven, one thing at a time. What is it that you thought the world would be? What is that you're finding out is wrong? You grew up with people that are the world society equivalent of Disney Land so there's likely to be a blindspot or two in your world picture.

Look; you've stumbled into a hidey hole in the opnet where all sorts of novas gather together to converse, discourse, argue, preen, boast and lament the various topics and circumstances of their interest. Some of us are involved in things you would rather not know about. Others are involved in things you're going to be passionately and deeply interested in. Given your background its going to take you a while to find out which are which.

On your other question; should we seperate from baseline? This is a question better put to Ashnod who seems to be the resident expert on all things Teras. James Meehan is an expert in all things but unlike Ashnod, he doesn't style himself an educator so you get it his way or you don't get it at all.

For my own narrow minded and mostly self centered point of view - yeah, I think the mixture of novas and baselines is a dangerous mixture for both. Novas overwhelm baselines, distorting their culture and society simply by our presence. We draw their attention, adoration and love as well as their emnity, resentment and fearful anger. We invalidate many of their assumptions about the very basis of reality by our abilities and not all of them react well or kindly to that loss. The Baraka's are my personal example of the worst of a bad lot.

In your stay with the uppies did you happen to run across mention of India Syndrome?

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Chance:


On your other question; should we seperate from baseline? This is a question better put to Ashnod who seems to be the resident expert on all things Teras. James Meehan is an expert in all things but unlike Ashnod, he doesn't style himself an educator so you get it his way or you don't get it at all.

Unfortunately, Mr. Chance is quite correct. I do not seem to have the patience for being an educator, even though I do have some small clue as to the proper modes. Ashnod is more than up to the task of properly being able to express the philisophical correctness of the philosophy of Teras. She is also quite a bit more attractive than I. Not a requirement for a talented professor, but a splendid perk.

Ah, by the way Jack, I enjoyed very much the company of you and Jill for dinner. Thank you everso for your presence. Your choice of wines was exquisite.

[Sakurako Hino]

*scratches head*

Man... Are some of you guys in Antarctica? Cause this is EXACTLY what the "protectors" Isolationists are talking about. Me, I got this little something that tells me if I have the ability to, I should do all I can to make the world better. If the Humans profit from it or are helped by it, so be it. Although I wouldn't mind leaving this little mudball. When I wasn't experiencing hallucinations, I was quite happy on Europa. I wouldn't mind if some Nova made a world and said "HEY GUYS! Come on OVER!" I'd be there by any means possible.

I think it'd be the only way I'd feel... normal. Sorry, among Humans I tend to feel sort of... Superior. I push it to the back of my mind, but it's there. Glaring at me like some sort of pit-bull on mite. I have to dorm down some times just to walk to the local grocer, and then, the massive food load I buy tends to give me away. Next thing you know, there's at least 20 kami-sama cultists wanting blessings or some sort of junk.

That's why I'm planning on moving back to the US. Minneapolis is quite Nova-friendly, as long as the Michaelites aren't stomping around on one of their revivals... But they get chased out by the Nova rights community there.

[Fortune's Son]

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... I enjoyed very much the company of you and Jill for dinner.

We enjoyed it as well.

I think Jilly was feeling some trepidation initially but between the company and the tour she quickly adapted. And thanks for the advice. I don't know that I agree with all the points you made but they were compelling.

We're thinking it over.

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Cause this is EXACTLY what the "Protectors" Isolationists are talking about.

Nope, never been there. I'm not privy to "eyes only" intel on the group, I don't have those kinds of reliable connections to the shadow world, but I think you might be off on your judgement of their philosphies. From what hear, Tommy-boy's thinking the world is going to hell in a handbasket and he's getting ready for the big crash. What he's done is take the seed for his new utopia into an isolated environment where its just too difficult for the world to "contaminate" his little hot house bloom.

With the baselines he took along for the ride it looks to me like their philosophy is the opposite of separation and being done for a different reason. The society he wants to create is the same as the one you see around you but without the slackers.

That end of the world militia crap was pretty popular at the turn of the century so no doubt he got a thorough indoctrination into it when he was a young'un.

[Seven]

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Seven, one thing at a time. What is it that you thought the world would be?

I'm not sure really, I just thought people would be different, I can't really explain what I mean by different though. Maybe I expected people to appreciate what they have a little more?

Quote:

You grew up with people that are the world society equivalent of Disney Land so there's likely to be a blindspot or two in your world picture.

Correction, I've grown up with a group of eggheads who's biggest priority isn't improving their social skills, if you know what I mean. The ALNC isn't part of Project Utopia, but they get their funding from the same sources as the Project.

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Look; you've stumbled into a hidey hole in the opnet where all sorts of novas gather together to converse, discourse, argue, preen, boast and lament the various topics and circumstances of their interest. Some of us are involved in things you would rather not know about. Others are involved in things you're going to be passionately and deeply interested in. Given your background its going to take you a while to find out which are which.

I want to know about everything Jack. The pretty, the ugly, everything. You can't possibly imagine the world I've been trapped in.

Quote:

On your other question; should we seperate from baseline? This is a question better put to Ashnod who seems to be the resident expert on all things Teras. James Meehan is an expert in all things but unlike Ashnod, he doesn't style himself an educator so you get it his way or you don't get it at all.

For my own narrow minded and mostly self centered point of view - yeah, I think the mixture of novas and baselines is a dangerous mixture for both. Novas overwhelm baselines, distorting their culture and society simply by our presence. We draw their attention, adoration and love as well as their emnity, resentment and fearful anger. We invalidate many of their assumptions about the very basis of reality by our abilities and not all of them react well or kindly to that loss. The Baraka's are my personal example of the worst of a bad lot.

And so because there is a negative element to society, you chuck the whole thing? Aren't Novas new, still in our first generation? How can anyone claim to know what is good or bad for the future? Yeah, yeah, A precog can. Even precogs can be wrong. We are all fallible aren't we?

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In your stay with the uppies did you happen to run across mention of India Syndrome?

Isn't that where people worship Novas or something like that?

[Fortune's Son]

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Maybe I expected people to appreciate what they have a little more?

Some do but there's more than a few that don't. Maybe it's because they've never had it taken away so they assume it'll always be there. You have a unique perspective that most do not and I can't decide if its a weakness or a strength. On one hand you have no idea who you were but on the other you lack the baggage most of us have to work at dealing with.

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Correction...

Correction noted. Ya know, that name has come up a couple of times in some odd ways. One of these days I'd love to hear more about your stay there.

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You can't possibly imagine the world I've been trapped in.

Maybe.

The closest I've come was two months in the Nova Evaluation Center, also known as the Bahrain Rashoud Facility or Last Stop. I didn't misplace my past though so I had something to get me through the days and nights. Maybe your stretch was tougher. We'll compare notes sometime.

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And so because there is a negative element to society, you chuck the whole thing?

A negative element?

I think that characterizing it as a "negative element" or assigning it as the work of "radicals" is overlooking something. The Baraka's weren't some comic book organization of evil doing it because the scripts says so. Nor folks that weren't held by mommy enough when they were babies. They were people with hopes, dreams and amibitions whose means of dealing with the fact that they weren't as strong as they desired to be was to rip a chunk out of your legs and chew it down raw with your blood running down their chin while making yummy noises. Can you picture how they dealt with feelings of sexual inadaquacies, being imperceptive or stupid and dull?

I think they were smart enough to pick a city wherein no one cared about that fate being bestowed on an individual whose only sin was not being aware that people were planning that fate for them and the accident of birth and circumstance that meant that individual was a nova. I think people that wouldn't join the baraka's or share their belief knew, or suspected what was happening and let their own rejection of the world weigh as a factor in deciding not to become involved.

I think I will never forget the sight of that and the imploring look in their eyes, begging me to understand how much they needed it. Or their victim begging us to kill him. I think I will always regret not killing each and every one of them with the spirit power they longed for.

What is the difference between one of them and a house wife in London, an insurance salesman in Ohio or the tourist standing next to you on the statue of Liberty. And if its only circumstance then what does that say about it being only a "negative element to society?" Is it a matter of society or of human nature?

Yeah, chucking it is one of the things I'm considering but there are other options. There are some things I will not allow no matter what the price of the buy-in happens to be.

[Seven]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Chance:
Some do but there's more than a few that don't. Maybe it's because they've never had it taken away so they assume it'll always be there. You have a unique perspective that most do not and I can't decide if its a weakness or a strength. On one hand you have no idea who you were but on the other you lack the baggage most of us have to work at dealing with.

Can't it be both? I see what you mean about other people though.

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Correction noted. Ya know, that name has come up a couple of times in some odd ways. One of these days I'd love to hear more about your stay there.

Where else have you heard about it? Maybe we can get together and talk about it?

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Maybe.

The closest I've come was two months in the Nova Evaluation Center, also known as the Bahrain Rashoud Facility or Last Stop. I didn't misplace my past though so I had something to get me through the days and nights. Maybe your stretch was tougher. We'll compare notes sometime.

I've heard that name before. I think that's where they were going to send me before I left. I didn't like the way they talked about the place so I walked.

Quote:

A negative element?

I think that characterizing it as a "negative element" or assigning it as the work of "radicals" is overlooking something. The Baraka's weren't some comic book organization of evil doing it because the scripts says so. Nor folks that weren't held by mommy enough when they were babies. They were people with hopes, dreams and amibitions whose means of dealing with the fact that they weren't as strong as they desired to be was to rip a chunk out of your legs and chew it down raw with your blood running down their chin while making yummy noises. Can you picture how they dealt with feelings of sexual inadaquacies, being imperceptive or stupid and dull?

I think they were smart enough to pick a city wherein no one cared about that fate being bestowed on an individual whose only sin was not being aware that people were planning that fate for them and the accident of birth and circumstance that meant that individual was a nova. I think people that wouldn't join the baraka's or share their belief knew, or suspected what was happening and let their own rejection of the world weigh as a factor in deciding not to become involved.

I think I will never forget the sight of that and the imploring look in their eyes, begging me to understand how much they needed it. Or their victim begging us to kill him. I think I will always regret not killing each and every one of them with the spirit power they longed for.

What is the difference between one of them and a house wife in London, an insurance salesman in Ohio or the tourist standing next to you on the statue of Liberty. And if its only circumstance then what does that say about it being only a "negative element to society?" Is it a matter of society or of human nature?

I didn't mean to trivialize it, but you can't assume that everyone is capable of the same depravity. Let me guess, you look at the people around you and think about when they're going to snap, not if, right?

What's the difference between a Nova and a Baseline? A lump of flesh that means both nothing and everything. Does being a Nova preclude us for this same insanity? Not if the news is in any way accurate. If fact, we seem more capable. So why are you laying the blame at their doorstep. they are jealous of our power, I witnessed that first hand the other day, and most of us have some sort of superiority complex that tells us we're better than them. Is it just their problem or do we also enable it? Will separating Novas and Baselines correct the problem? It's not likely that people are just going to forget that Novas ever existed just becouse they aren't there anymore, the damage is done, so to speak. Just like Novas are too wrapped up in "their" world, AND it doesn't guarentee that no more Novas will erupt.

So, what separates the man I'm standing next to and the sick cannibals that you encountered? Choice, pure and simple. Those people chose to do what they did. Others choose not to. I have no idea why, I don't really understand people all that well yet, but I do know that everything we do is a choice. The men who kept me isolated and under lock-and-key chose to, just as those cannibals. You chose to stop them, no one put a gun to your head.

I'm learning more about the world every day and one of the big things is that I can't judge the world by look at just one part of it. I can't yet say Novas should stay or go because I haven't experienced enough of the world to judge it as a whole. Have you?

[Fortune's Son]

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Have you?

Maybe. I'm not completely sure yet but I know I'm close to my personal answer whichever way it goes.

So let's talk about that.

You're defending baselines in general and implying a belief on my part that novas are intrinsically better, or as Count Orzaiz is fond of saying, "More evolved." You're also implying that I have or should have a sense of responsibility towards them. Okay, one at a time.

1. I'm responsible for my actions and by necessity the indirect results of those actions. That statement infers a willful decision on my part whether the action were conscious or unconscious but does not make me wholly responsible for the decisions of others regardless of whether theirs was based in part on mine. Am I responsible for erroneous conclusions or faulty deductions by someone witnessing my actions and then acting on their own? Yes, to a point I believe I am... until acting on the responsibility would require me to make decisions for them.

Once I cross that line I've become what they want me to be and living my life in accordance with their expectations and beliefs.

2. Are novas better / more evolved? I could lead you down the debator's path but you seem to be trying to be honest so I'll return the courtesy.

We haven't broached this subject, not really, but if we are going to discuss it I gotta tell you that your argument is weak. Asserting that novas are no better than baselines does not equate them being equally as bad. Or baselines being equally as good for that matter. Or even equal. It's begging the question and not unlike someone saying "I didn't steal your car and your car sucks anyway." Dissect that statement and you come up with two seperate statements that appear to support each other while in actuality they are completely unrelated.

Baselines aren't worse than novas because the only difference between baselines and novas is a lump of flesh in the head? Maybe the difference between the two really is a lump of flesh in the head but that doesn't make them identical without it because without its presence you have two groups of baselines.

3. Saying the damage is done, that baselines aren't going to forget us, is IMHO irrelevant and simplistic.

Irrelevant because what happens afterward the novas are gone is their choice and knowing what they are going to choose does not make it any less their choice. Simplisitic because...

Hmmm.

You're new in the world so let me use an example to illustrate. Pick a person on the street. Any of them. Now give me one full day and I can make them love me to the detriment of all else in their life.

"Oh wait", you say. "This person wouldn't be interested in you because you're not her (type, preferred sex, etc.)"

It doesn't matter and that's the point I'm trying to make to you.

"Oh but this person is the strongest of the strong baselines!"

Point taken. A really strong baseline might take me three days. In either case, strong or not, I assume I'm trying to be at least slightly subtle.

"Oh, but that's using superpowers to force them to do something!"

No, its not because there is no such thing as superpowers.

Wait a second, that last statement is a debator's trick and I promised to be equally as candid as you were.

Call it what you will but I can do this without conscious effort or an intent to do so. It's partly chemical, partly evolutionary hardwiring on their part, and partly something else that no one can explain yet. But it happens and I can accomplish the actions I've stipulated by the simple decision of being myself in this hypothetical person's company.

Novas do not react this way to me. not to the same degree or with the same consistency. Finding worth in a baseline, or even all baselines, is your perogative and I wish you the best with it. To assert it as a constant however is like trying to force a wild bear into a ballerina costume. You may succeed but the bear is still going to disagree with your choice of esthetics.

[Fortune's Son]

Addendum:

1. Yeah, I'm having problems dealing with the idea of someone I care about ending as marginalized "meat" for vermin. For me its personal not philosophic.

2. Leaving is not intended to "help" the baselines. However it would cause no more harm than has already been done and would cease what is currently happening.

3. The effect on novas by our leaving the baselines is related, but not identical to, the effect on the baselines. It's a separate issue.

4. In a similar manner the "blame" being laid at the doorstep of the baseline is theirs to shoulder. There is a nova side to the coin but that doesn't change the baseline side. Philosophy, much like legislation, does not alter physics or biology.

5. Bahrain is designed to house those Utopia feels are too dangerous to themselves and others to be allow freedom or liberty. Some do visit and can reasonably expect to get out like I did but there are other sections that no one sees unless they're not leaving. Ever.

6. ALNC has the capacity to hold someone of your abilities but when did they build it into the facility? What the heck were they doing that needed that much physical security before the first nova walked into the public awareness in 1998?

I didn't want your other questions to get lost because of the main body of what the discussion has turned into.

[Seven]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Chance:

1. Yeah, I'm having problems dealing with the idea of someone I care about ending as marginalized "meat" for vermin. For me its personal not philosophic.

2. Leaving is not intended to "help" the baselines. However it would cause no more harm than has already been done and would cease what is currently happening.

3. The effect on novas by our leaving the baselines is related, but not identical to, the effect on the baselines. It's a separate issue.

4. In a similar manner the "blame" being laid at the doorstep of the baseline is theirs to shoulder. There is a nova side to the coin but that doesn't change the baseline side. Philosophy, much like legislation, does not alter physics or biology.

Yes Jack, there is a nova side to that coin but it doesn't seem like anyone here wants to step up and say that. What I was trying to say earlier was that it takes two sides to make a problem and by only addressing the one side and saying only they need to make change isn't dealing with the problem honestly. You cannot sit there and tell me that every nova is innocent and that all the difficulties between baselines and novas is due purely to the limitations of the baselines.

In truth, I have no idea what would happen to either the baselines or the novas if we were to separate. Most likely both groups would adapt over time as long as their was no further "contamination" of the two separate cultures. However, since no one really knows what causes eruptions or whether its genetic traits can skip generations, it is likely that even if novas left earth somehow that novas would continue to erupt.

Finally Jack, I am very sorry if I have offended you through this conversation. I know i haven't seen those monsters face to face. I like you and I want to keep talking to you, so please accept my appology.

Quote:

5. Bahrain is designed to house those Utopia feels are too dangerous to themselves and others to be allow freedom or liberty. Some do visit and can reasonably expect to get out like I did but there are other sections that no one sees unless they're not leaving. Ever.

I don't know why they'd send me there then, it's not like I've got a million tentacles wiggling on my back or something. I glad I left the ALNC when I did!

Quote:

6. ALNC has the capacity to hold someone of your abilities but when did they build it into the facility? What the heck were they doing that needed that much physical security before the first nova walked into the public awareness in 1998?

Um, they don't have that kind of tech. That's why I was able to leave when I did. The only thing that kept me there was trust. I really didn't know any better at the time. They told me I'd be safe there and they would be able to help me. Since they proved that they could help me control and refine my power, I believed them when they said the outside world was too dangeraous.

When I discovered my "Ghosting" power I started to explore the complex and found the guard room and the TV they had there. Eventually I started sending my senses out to explore the city nearby. When I told them I wanted to leave they got all wigged out. That's when I overheard them talking about sending me to Bahrain. I asked one of the interns what Bahrain was and he told me. Soon as he left the room I relocted myself to central park. Did you know they have a petting zoo there? It kinda cool.

[Fortune's Son]

Quote:

Originally posted by Seven:
Yes Jack, there is a nova side to that coin but it doesn't seem like anyone here wants to step up and say that.

True, but there's a reason for that. Look at Prodigy's question concerning what seperates us from baselines which immediately degenerated and veered off topic. It's a hot issue with all of us here and most here can't talk about both at the same time without getting defensive or becoming narcissistic.

Along with that;

Quote:

What I was trying to say earlier was that it takes two sides to make a problem and by only addressing the one side and saying only they need to make change isn't dealing with the problem honestly. You cannot sit there and tell me that every nova is innocent and that all the difficulties between baselines and novas is due purely to the limitations of the baselines.

No I can't, but neither can we discuss novas having a place, or a basis for interaction, with baselines without discussing their limitations, idiosyncrasies and illusions. Too many assume that if we'd all just try to get along it would work out.

It won't.

It will take hard work and much effort on the part of both. When everyone finally agrees on that then we can start discussing whether its worth the effort.

Quote:

Finally Jack, I am very sorry if I have offended you through this conversation.

Thanks but don't worry about it. I'm just being overly sensitive right now as you could probably tell from the manner I eviserated the cherished beliefs of some folks elsewhere.

Quote:

Um, they don't have that kind of tech.

Badly worded on my part. I didn't actually mean tech, rather the I was referring to the sturdiness of the construction. That place is built to be defensible yet has never been used for anything else. I just can't figure out why they would have gone to the expense.

Have I mentioned that I hate mysteries?

Glad to hear you enjoyed the petting zoo and would recommend the San Diego Zoo for a similar experience but more sun.

[Seven]

Ooh, I've never tried to relocate that far, do you know how far away the city is? If it's more than 80 kilometers then I'm gonna need to see some current picture of it. I kinda have to know where I'm going before I try this.

Mysteries aren't so bad, you just have to figure out how bad you really want to know, whether it's important to you or not.

[Fortune's Son]

It's on the other side of the land from where you are and much further than 80 km. It's also the last city before the border to the next country which you hsould be able to spot from the air. Shoot for the tallest buildings in the area, should be downtown San Diego and spiral outward and inland. The zoo will be about 3-4 kilometers from your starting point.

Have fun and don't tease the tigers. It makes them grumpy. Speaking of which; are you sure this was a petting zoo you were at?