Aberrant: Trans-Dimensional Explorations - How much should Novas get Paid?

[Alex Green]

I branched this discussion off because it’s pretty important and could go on for a while. Basically this is about nova economics, nova pay scales, and the fundamental (but minor) question of whether or not the characters are underpaid.

BlueNinja

post Apr 20 2006, 12:22 PM

Michal opens his mouth to say something else, when Rieller clears his throat and raises an eyebrow. They stare at each other for a moment, then Michal smacks his forehead with a palm. "Right, right, that is sort of important, isn't it?" He reaches into the briefcase next to him, and pulls out a couple of envelopes. "For those of you who already have bank accounts, your payments for the last two missions have been automatically deposited. Otherwise, here's a check." He passes them out swiftly; Theo's is $9,000, everyone else is looking at $15,000.

Alex Green (OOC Post)

I've been meaning to bring that up. The short answer is, 'Not enough'.

Novas are supposed to be expensive and we are performing dangerous, black op stuff. I suspect we should be getting 10x as much (and would like to retro-edit that in).

For spending six hours on a world with dangerous novas (where you were attacked all of once) you got $9,000. In other words, you got $1,500 an hour for Overclocked. Fallout, though you spent a day and a half, had nothing more dangerous than a kid with a .22 and a few large bugs. Michal starts each mission at a base of $5k, and ramps up the money based on time spent and danger, and bonuses for bringing back something exceptionally useful. You haven't found any of that stuff yet. [edit] Top that off with free room, free food, and free medical care from a nova surgeon - you're talking about adding another $10k/month right there. Plus there's limited access to extra weaponry and nova-tech if Michal or Richard think you'll need it. [/edit]

Warning: Alex’s player gets out his soap box and stands on it. ::ohmy

A lot has been made of how easily novas can make money. T2M gets 8 digit salaries. Totentanz charges 7 figures a mission. The implication has been that they are overpaid. I’m willing to say they aren’t overpaid, if anything they are underpaid.

Issue #1: Novas tend to benefit greatly by being at the top of various professions that greatly reward the top players.

A nova lawyer could shift the odds of victory in a lawsuit involving billions of dollars. Therefore he can, just like good lawyers do in real life, get a piece of that. This is going to happen in any type of ‘winner takes all’ environment, and those are more common than most people realize. Book writers, Athletes, Lawyers, anyone in the entertainment business, Elites, being second best is an economic problem for your employer so they should (and do) command top dollar.

In RL, Arnold charged 30+ million for his last movie (T3). This is significant because he was the only one who could make the movie and it was pretty much a guarantied hit. Imagine a world where he could make a movie a month and pretty much guaranty a blockbuster hit. Novas can do that. Note also that if in our analogy Totentanz is Arnold is, then Arnold’s costars probably didn’t make only 30K.

Issue #2: Novas, & Nova specific skills have a profound Economic impact on society.

Big drug manufacturers make Billions (with a ‘B’) of dollars for their top drugs. They make this money because drugs do good things for us that we are willing to pay for. A nova who could crank out a few more drugs like that a year is having an economic effect on society of billions of dollars, and he should be paid a piece of that.

A hurricane does hundreds of millions to billions of dollars of damage to the economy, it’s worth it to hire a nova for a few million to divert it.

For a less extreme, more common example, how much does an organ transplant cost? When you add in the dozen medical types, time, labor, special equipment & training, harvesting the organ, you are probably talking hundreds of thousands of dollars. There are literally thousands of people on waiting lists for this kind of thing. So a nova healer could, should, and would be able to charge 20% of that pull in 20K per day for a few minutes work. And note this work has no risk at all.

Issue #3: Replacement

There’s two things here. First, if you need a nova then you really need a nova and there aren’t many. Second, there’s lots of jobs for novas so the market is going to reflect that. I.e. how much it costs to hire a nova is going to be affected by how much money they could be making doing other things (i.e. supply and demand).

Issue #4: Now let’s look specifically at the PCs.

Calling it 5 grand for 6 hours is misleading, we go on a mission about once a month, so that’s 60 to 108 thousand a year.

Further, the work we are doing is extremely dangerous and secretive. Michal is on the run from PU's tech police (and misc other groups). Those 6 hours of our mission included many dangerously unstable novas 3 actively hostile novas, and two nova fights, in one of which we actually killed him. To make matters much, much worse, the laws of physics were different and every single person in the party came down with temp taint, and we actually picked up 5 aberrations between us. Meaning that free medical care from a nova surgeon is the least he can do. Basically, the closest analogy to what we do would be elite work.

So how much are elites paid? Totentanz would have charged 9 million or so. Granted, we aren’t on his pay scale, but saying we can only charge 0.1% of that seems illogical.

Moving back to replacement, a big sky resort without snow this year is losing thousands of dollars a day, so it makes sense to hire Paul for 5K to make some snow. Ditto a farming town without rain. A middle class guy dying of heart disease (and costing his insurance company dozens or hundreds of thousands of dollars a year) could hire Paul to take care of the problem permanently for 10K. And it isn't just Paul, two of the team are cyberkenetics and the market demand for that is extremely high. Brandt could open his own ‘fast currier’ service for when it absolutely has to be there right now. Ash is a precog. These are things we can do without being shot at, or risking +3 taint, or risking being stranded in another dimension.

We should be getting paid on the elite scale because the job is filled with risk and there are other alternatives.

[AnonCastillo]

I've mostly stayed out of this discussion because, as far as Jonathan is concerned, $15,000 for a few weeks work is the best money he's ever seen in his life. However, Paul does have a point - we're not only spending a few hours to a day per mission (each of which is hazardous and should command good pay), we're also spending time in briefings, training, etc. related to each mission that we're so far unpaid for. We're also becoming targets of any organizations unfriendly to SGE. Each mission isn't just the few hours to a few days that we spend on it, it's also the 2-3 days we spend at SGE that we could spend working elsewhere, as well as year-round potential threats for opposing organizations.

Medical benefits? Great. Free room and board? Not bad, but as most of the team had no problem making rent, not that important, especially since most of us still have our own places. Access to advanced technology? Maybe a bonus for Eli or any other tech junkies, but would Paul or Jonathan care?

Ten times our current pay might be a bit excessive, but three to five times isn't really unreasonable.

[SkyLion]

Esteban has his own reasons for being on the team and money doesn't have the same allure for one with his perspectives, priorities and powers. However, I think its a good discussion to have. I talked with BN over IM about this subject as well and he had the same answer for me, which I agreed with at the time. However, Alex has some excellent points. I would like to add two things.

1. Michal is keeping us on retainer, and we have signed a gag order. Sure we have time off between missions where we can take other contracts, which is pretty standard even for DeVries. We still must comport ourselves such that we are available when he needs us.

2. As far as free room and board, please see exhibits "A" and "B" below:

"A."

BlueNinja

post Dec 20 2005, 12:32 PM

Inside, a dashing young lady named Carmela leads you to a room not unlike the last cheap hotel you stayed at, giving you a small map of the available places in the building. "It's nice to meet you, Doctor Nature, wasn't it? Anyway, this is your room for the night, since I don't believe you had arranged for other accomidations out in town. I'm afraid we're a bit out in the middle of nowhere.

"B."

BlueNinja

post Dec 26 2005, 02:18 PM

"I believe you have confused the kitchen with a restaurant. You can eat whatever you are capable of cooking. If you are incapable of cooking, there are cases of hot pockets in the freezer. Richard has joked about pepperoni pizza hot pockets being the house special, so enjoy."

Not exactly nouveau riche...

[Alex Green]

Ten times our current pay might be a bit excessive, but three to five times isn't really unreasonable.

I disagree. 10x would still be 1% of what 'T' would charge, which tells me we are about right. ::devil

In RL, right now medical doctor's are being offered $70K bonuses (I think tax free) to work in Iraq. Supposedly a front line medic's signing bonus is $120K http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8143733/

That's bonus, not regular pay. Put the word nova in there and I'd think there would be a 10x increase. ::cool

...as far as Jonathan is concerned, $15,000 for a few weeks work is the best money he's ever seen in his life.

Every time I sit down and start putting together a real world business plan for novas, I quickly end up looking at 7 digit figures. For some powers I end up looking at mid 9 digits or even 10 (yes, 10 is Billion with a "B").

Healing is a good power to look at because everyone can understand it's uses and have an idea of what the market conditions already are. A Healer can spend a temp willpower point once a day to replace an organ or limb. Assuming he works 250 days a year and charges $20K a pop, that's 5 million. Are there enough people out there willing to pay $20K? Are there so many nova healers that supply will lower the cost? My back of the envelope says 'Yes' & 'No' respectively.

So our Nova healer gets 5 Mill or so... and this just covers from 8 am to 8:30 of his day. He may have other powers, and even if he doesn't he still has Healing. How much did I pay to get my ingrown toe nail fixed? (I don't remember)... but a nova could cure it and I wouldn't need to spend a week on cruches. I'd pay twice what I did to avoid that, other people would pay 10x.

And that's just direct service. A hospital would pay to have a nova healer around to reduce their risk. If the operation is going bad, we can count on Dr. Healer to step in and save the day. But the day doesn't need saving all that often so he can serve as 'last resort' for the entire hospital, say 5 operations all going on at the same time. Said hospital now pays much less for insurence, lawyers fees for malpractice, damage awards... and they get tons of great PR at the same time. A million or two to the nova that allows this would *still* be cheap because of all the money he's saving.

[SkyLion]

Also consider that Novas have boosted the worldwide economy, overall, tremendously. There is simply more money being circulated and its value has increased. Between Sierka in Russia, Saisho in Japan, PU, DeVries, Ethiopia, Mexico City, Mumbai, XWF, Triton, N!, SGE and others things are looking pretty good in socio-economic terms, even for the average guy. Employment is at an all-time high, the UN (in addition to PU) is finally doing something concrete about human rights and space travel and exploitation is now (thanks to SGE, and don't claim overhead...Michal is too Mega-Int to get involved with low margins...) a practical economic reality. Thats not to mention the underworld of organized crime bussiness (All Utopia did was eliminate the unfit and give the tiger sharper teeth). My initial point and question to BN over IM was that it seemed like Michal was Bill Gates gone Nova, and that for being elite troubleshooters he's being kinda cheap with us. (How much does Gates pay his elite on his topmost pet projects IRL???)

Mutiny!!!! ::devil

I hope the sphynxes didn't hear me... ::unsure

::tongue

[Expendable]

something to keep in mind is that T2M and Totentanz are known performers and can command those kinds of salaries. Like you said for T3, the producers were willing to pay Arnold $30 Million - but what did they pay him for the first movie? The first recorded salary I could find for him was for Conan the Barbarian - where they paid him $250,000. He probably got paid scale for Hercules in New York.

Some of you have experience and exposure and can command more money. Me? Nobody knows me. $9,000 is more money than I've seen in one paycheck, nova or not.

[SkyLion]

Well Theo has a good case for not being picky, as does Esteban, Jonathan and probably Ash (still waiting for them in meet the characters... ::huh )

T2M and Herr deathdance *are* the highest paid Novas (though consider Mercer and Donnighal, with knowledge of the future and long-lived investments respectivley) and granted not all Novas are created equal.

I think what Alex and I meant was that we are circumstantially worth perhaps a *little* more than a 10th of a percent of the top earner (unless we are in the the lowest percentile of power and/or desirability).

It's also a strong point that we are risking our necks for what is essentially an illegal (albeit world-saving(?)) operation (Which, if revealed to authorities could quite easily negate a gag order signed before knowledge of said breaches of technological regulations...).

[Expendable]

It's also a strong point that we are risking our necks for what is essentially an illegal (albeit world-saving(?)) operation (Which, if revealed to authorities could quite easily negate a gag order signed before knowledge of said breaches of technological regulations...).

Remind me to pack more survival gear next time so that if a contract dispute gets me stranded on an alternate earth I can (hopefully) make myself a nice home. I've got a nice collection of ebooks for my PDA on survival, medicine, simple dentistry and herbs but I might want to add more. Like a recipe for making my own hotpockets just incase my new adopted home don't have them. And how to make chocolate and my own thin mints.

Maybe we should look at this as like not just a job but an adventure too, like all those navy recruiting ads say. I mean how often do you get to visit alternate worlds, even as a Nova? The pay may be less than we'd like it to be but we're visiting worlds nobody's seen and maybe there's a bonus for finding an inhabitable world that isn't going to be visited by an alien fleet.

We could ask that Athena be set up to teach skills or we get access to some sort of online training to improve ourselves. And don't forget there's a gun range and a sadistic martial arts instructor ready to pound us into the mat as a part of room and board.

[Alex Green]

something to keep in mind is that T2M and Totentanz are known performers and can command those kinds of salaries. Like you said for T3, the producers were willing to pay Arnold $30 Million - but what did they pay him for the first movie? The first recorded salary I could find for him was for Conan the Barbarian - where they paid him $250,000. He probably got paid scale for Hercules in New York….

Scale is where you have tens of thousands of potential workers for a single job. That doesn’t describe what we are doing.

I am willing to except Conan as an example, but that would mean either….

1) We should be getting 300,000 per mission (that’s 250 with inflation).

2) Or, I could point out that 300,000 is 1% of 30 Million. If we use the 1% figure we are back at 10x what we are getting.

SkyLion:Well Theo has a good case for not being picky, as does Esteban, Jonathan and probably Ash (still waiting for them in meet the characters... ::huh )

Expendable: Some of you have experience and exposure and can command more money. Me? Nobody knows me. $9,000 is more money than I've seen in one paycheck, nova or not.

Neither of you are unknown. Your powers are known. What those powers do is known. Granted, your skill and level of professionalism isn’t known, but you are willing to put your necks on the line which should count for something.

Let’s assume for a moment that Paul is a total unknown. He claims to be a nova healer, the PU clinic he came from confirms that. So would you the dying heart patient be willing to put 20,000 dollars in escrow and give him a try?

‘Total Unknown’ and/or ‘Recent Eruptee’ is a good thing when we are talking about ‘Interface with Computers’ because that means you will take *only* take 7 figures a year rather than the 8 or 9 someone with a great rep would demand.

T2M and Herr deathdance *are* the highest paid Novas (though consider Mercer and Donnighal, with knowledge of the future and long-lived investments respectivley) and granted not all Novas are created equal.

I think what Alex and I meant was that we are circumstantially worth perhaps a *little* more than a 10th of a percent of the top earner (unless we are in the the lowest percentile of power and/or desirability).

It's also a strong point that we are risking our necks for what is essentially an illegal (albeit world-saving(?)) operation (Which, if revealed to authorities could quite easily negate a gag order signed before knowledge of said breaches of technological regulations...).

T2M is NOT the best paid by Nova standards. That's why they stress the parts about you being able to live with yourself, and making a better world. Splash (just as an example) is a top of the line weather manip, she is making 8 figures, she could probably pull in 9 by redirecting hurricanes and the like.

Totentanz is (we assume) the best paid Elite. However, that is not the same as the best paid nova (probably Math-boy from the Teragen and/or Anna DeVries hold that honor).

Let's talk some even more extreme examples of profit potential. My back of the hand calculations say...

1) How much would a rich man pay for an extra year of life? Temporal Manipulators can make people younger. Shall we say the demand for this is effectively unlimited at $100,000 a year? Assume said TM averages 5 succ per hit, this is 10 years (or 1 million dollars) for 3 juice. He wakes up in the morning, does this 10 times, and then does it another 10 times after lunch. That's 20 million dollars a day, and if we assume 250 working days a year then he pulls in 5 Billion dollars a year.

2) Mega-Int with Scientific prodigy combined with drug research could pull in 1 Billion dollars a year in a profit stream that would last 7 years (i.e. each year he earns 7 billion dollars). This assumes 10 drugs each worth 1 billion a year and lasting 7 years where he gets 10%. If we assume 5 drugs then he's only pulling in 5 Billion.

But Totentanz is the best example because that's a good match for what we are doing. Any job where the description says, nova level combat may occur probably fits that description.

[BlueNinja]

‘Total Unknown’ and/or ‘Recent Eruptee’ is a good thing when we are talking about ‘Interface with Computers’ because that means you will take *only* take 7 figures a year rather than the 8 or 9 someone with a great rep would demand.

I based your guys starting salary after some contracting work that Michal did about a month after erupting. (~10 XP) For three weeks of work on protecting the Wall Street servers from a hacker, he pulled in $10k. Three weeks of 12 hour days, every day, until every hole he could find was patched, and he'd driven off the (nova) hacker three times. Which meant that he earned less than $500 a day. Nice, pretty decent for a standard nova, but by no means impressive.

By comparison, the group so far earned about $3k a day for Fallout, and $36k a day for Overclocked. Multiple times what Michal earned over his first contracting job. In addition, you all had a month of 'time off' to take other jobs - Alex went back to a hospital, Eli did some programming work, Jonathan played with his dog. ::laugh You're not earning pay amounts substantial to the average combat elite - but then, you're not supposed to be in combat most of the time. Yes, most of you probably could earn more money on the outside world, especially Paul and Eli. Instead, you're getting to explore places that no one from your Earth has ever seen - and most of them, nobody else will.

I have said (and will repeat) that your pay is partly based on what you bring back that is of use to the mission. Fallout brought back nothing useful. Overclocked brought back knowledge of a highly dangerous device that might be good for a last-ditch, scorched-earth tactic when the aliens show up. Believe me when I say that there are worlds where you can rack up impressive bonuses for finding the right things. Due to how the dice picked the order episode, you just haven't hit them yet. One of them is within the next three though.

Besides, nobody even thought to ask Michal if they could get a piece of the patents - the people who had sufficient money didn't care, and the rest apparently didn't know to ask. ::happy

[Expendable]

...I am willing to except Conan as an example, but that would mean either….

1) We should be getting 300,000 per mission (that’s 250 with inflation).

2) Or, I could point out that 300,000 is 1% of 30 Million. If we use the 1% figure we are back at 10x what we are getting.

....But Totentanz is the best example because that's a good match for what we are doing. Any job where the description says, nova level combat may occur probably fits that description.

You're probably right. On the other hand, there are times when professionals provide their very expensive skills for free or reduced rates for special projects that are in the public good or aren't expected to make a lot of money, like the fuss Randy Quaid kicked up over Brokeback Mountain. For art films that aren't expected to make a lot of money, he charges less. Or doctors who provide services for free to patients who can't afford to pay. Or pro bono lawyers.

[AnonCastillo]

Was Michal risking his life in nova-on-nova combat for 10k? Nope. Was he racking up large amounts of taint? Nope. Was he running the risk of being stranded in an alternate dimension, unable to get home? Nope. And if he was protecting the security of Wall Street, 10k is a ripoff, even for only a few weeks' work.

And we were not getting $36k/day for fallout. When you add in the briefing, preparation for the mission, debriefing, etc. the mission took up the entirety of the day for $9k. Perhaps not bad for a day's work, but not that great considering the risks involved.

And Paul made a (possibly unintentional) point that different nova abilities are worth different amounts. A healer who can act as our field medic is probably worth more than the average nova. A nova like Jonathan whose primary powers are telekinesis, animal mastery, and mega-wits, wouldn't be worth as much on the first few missions, but having been promoted, a raise is probably in order. Individual bonuses wouldn't hurt, either - if someone performs particularly well on a mission, they should be given additional pay.

[BlueNinja]

Was Michal risking his life in nova-on-nova combat for 10k? Nope. Was he racking up large amounts of taint? Nope. Was he running the risk of being stranded in an alternate dimension, unable to get home? Nope. And if he was protecting the security of Wall Street, 10k is a ripoff, even for only a few weeks' work.

For Wall Street? No. But hunting down the Medellin cartel? He (and the rest) made about $500k from salary in three years. They were risking their lives in nova-on-nova combat (as well as nova-on-baselines-with-rocket-launchers combat). You've already noticed his eyes. Admittedly, he has never risked being left on an alternate world. ::happy Most of the money that went into building the SGE came from confiscated drug money, and sales of confiscated black market weapons and Kuro-Tec equipment (totalling around $15mil). IOW - they had to go work their asses off for it.

[edit] to break down their pay, each member of the team got $100k a year from the US Gov't to stop these folks. They were also given considerable leeway with what happened to just about everything except the drugs. So, if you divide it into a per-person basis, they each earned about $3.1 mil a year. This was often supplemented with other elite-style contract work when their leads on drug runners were slow - programming, teleport courier, bodyguard, etc. That netted them about an extra $50k a year.

So far, in a month and a half (rounding up for conveinence), the characters have earned $15k each. If that keeps up, they'll be getting $180k a year, plus the little incidentals like top medical care and free room and food and ammo. That'd probably bump it up to about $200k a year. This is without counting any sort of bonuses for bringing back functional technology or rare materials. So the party (total) is putting Michal back $1.4 mil a year. Starting out.

If you really want to raise your characters' pay, then someone needs to know enough ICly to ask Michal about getting a share in the profits from the stuff they bring back. The 50+ patents that Michal holds (almost all relating to the space elevators and space travel) are bringing Michal around $30mil a year. On top of that, the SGE does the scheduling for all of the space elevators (though they only get the profit off the one in the Mojave desert), does architectural design for any company that's planning to put stuff in space, and does a number of chemical engineering research. The overall gross income for the SGE is around $4bil a year. A quarter of that is sunk back into salaries, health insurance, and community projects and advertising. Another quarter of that is sunk back into maintenance costs. Almost everything left goes to R&D (both the trans-d program and traditional stuff). His budgets are tight enough that if he actually paid Claire and Rieller a seven figure salary (instead of the ~$250k they earn), SGE would be in the red. (Kevin doesn't even earn seven figures, but then, he views his job as 'vacation where I get paid'.) If Michal raises your base pay much, that means cutting his budget in other areas - mostly other things relating to his 'black ops' project, meaning Brandt isn't going to get those quantum sensors, Richard isn't going to be scouting as many worlds with the probes, Richard isn't going to be around to do maintenance on the ETPHs when you are all home.

Now admittedly, Michal could scale back some of his other work - he's the top name in space travel, and while there are upstart companies, none of them would be able to seriously compete for at least five years. He'd rather not lose the edge he already has, especially when the Daedalus League is talking about pooling funding to build the first (Michal designed) ship to go explore the moons of Jupiter. Raising your salaries after two missions would put a crimp in future plans. However, profit sharing from stuff that you (possibly) risked your own hides to bring back, he'd view as perfectly equitable. He's just not going to mention it unless someone else brings it up. And, well, none of you have Biz ... ::happy [/edit]

[SkyLion]

Only 4 billion a year huh? I guess he's not Bill gates... ::tongue

We may not have biz but some of us with Mega-Int might have a better die pool based off Atts than many people on Wall Street...

[BlueNinja]

Only 4 billion a year huh? I guess he's not Bill gates... ::tongue

We may not have biz but some of us with Mega-Int might have a better die pool based off Atts than many people on Wall Street...

That means you have good instincts, but not the knowledge required for deals like this. Sure, someone could say, "We should be getting a piece of this," but they wouldn't say, "We should be getting x percent in deals and a this deal to share the patents."

[SkyLion]

That means you have good instincts, but not the knowledge required for deals like this. Sure, someone could say, "We should be getting a piece of this," but they wouldn't say, "We should be getting x percent in deals and a this deal to share the patents."

Perhaps not, but I bet at least Brandt , and Alex (and thus most likely Paul) have thought about theier checks and I know the B-Meister could speed-read up some Biz PDFs quite handily.... :speeddemon_sm:

[phoenix]

Yeah - there's a section somewhere in the core saying Mega-Intelligence alone doesn't let you out-doctor a guy with human intelligence, but medical experience.

[Alex Green]

BlueNinja: I based your guys starting salary after some contracting work that Michal did about a month after erupting. (~10 XP) For three weeks of work on protecting the Wall Street servers from a hacker, he pulled in $10k. Three weeks of 12 hour days, every day, until every hole he could find was patched, and he'd driven off the (nova) hacker three times. Which meant that he earned less than $500 a day. Nice, pretty decent for a standard nova, but by no means impressive.

That’s an introductory rate for someone who isn’t well established. It’s also risk free, i.e. people aren’t shooting at you. It also isn’t $500 a day. It’s $10K for the job and it’s up to you how long it takes. If you’d had Q7 and been able to do the whole thing in an hour, would they have paid you less? No? Then the amount of time it took was a reflection of your skills.

BlueNinja: By comparison, the group so far earned about $3k a day for Fallout, and $36k a day for Overclocked. Multiple times what Michal earned over his first contracting job.

Saying we got $36K a day for Overclocked is misleading and wrong. If the job had taken 2 days, would we have gotten $72K? No? Then stop talking about the per day rate.

BlueNinja: In addition, you all had a month of 'time off' to take other jobs - Alex went back to a hospital, Eli did some programming work, Jonathan played with his dog. ::laugh

Unpaid time off isn’t usually considered a benefit. Especially when it’s time needed to recover from the mission.

BlueNinja: You're not earning pay amounts substantial to the average combat elite - but then, you're not supposed to be in combat most of the time.

In same sample mission (AB: Elites first few pages), the actual combat only took a few seconds. This is pretty standard meaning that Elites aren’t in combat most of the time.

The fact of the matter is we were in combat, against novas. Worse, this is EXPECTED! If four elites are hired to blow up a water purification plant, and they expect two elites to try to stop them, then that’s a combat mission where nova level opposition is expected. It’s even a combat mission if the other two elites screw up and go to the wrong location.

The closest analogy to this is elite work. That’s why Star Gate is military science fiction. It’s so dangerous they send out soldiers.

BlueNinja: Besides, nobody even thought to ask Michal if they could get a piece of the patents - the people who had sufficient money didn't care, and the rest apparently didn't know to ask. ::happy

This is what agents are for.

Expendable: You're probably right. On the other hand, there are times when professionals provide their very expensive skills for free or reduced rates for special projects that are in the public good or aren't expected to make a lot of money, like the fuss Randy Quaid kicked up over Brokeback Mountain. For art films that aren't expected to make a lot of money, he charges less. Or doctors who provide services for free to patients who can't afford to pay. Or pro bono lawyers.

Ramdy Quaid thought he was signing up for a low budget film where he couldn’t get his normal fee. What he’s annoyed about is that other people did charge their usual fees and the film did in fact have a budget.

However, Michal can pay the usual rates, and everyone knows this. Worse, even if some of the PCs didn’t know what the usual rates were when they signed up, presumably they will find out and unlike Quaid ours is on going work.

Our current situation is like where your “pro bono” lawyer is expected to live off of his “pro bono” work.

BlueNinja: …to break down their pay, each member of the team got $100k a year from the US Gov't to stop these folks. They were also given considerable leeway with what happened to just about everything except the drugs. So, if you divide it into a per-person basis, they each earned about $3.1 mil a year…

Basically you were paid a pittance but you also got commission. With the entire package considered you were pulling in about 3 mil a year (or about 25 times what we are), doing something that was almost as dangerous as what we are doing now.

BlueNinja: This was often supplemented with other elite-style contract work when their leads on drug runners were slow - programming, teleport courier, bodyguard, etc. That netted them about an extra $50k a year.

And can we do the same? Can Paul get another $20K to repair some rich baseline’s heart?

BlueNinja: So far, in a month and a half (rounding up for conveinence), the characters have earned $15k each. If that keeps up, they'll be getting $180k a year…

You mean $120K. And if we do this for 25 years then we’ll almost get what Michal did for one year of hunting drug dealers.

BlueNinja: However, profit sharing from stuff that you (possibly) risked your own hides to bring back, he'd view as perfectly equitable. He's just not going to mention it unless someone else brings it up. And, well, none of you have Biz…

No, but we have better job offers out there. We could do something less dangerous, like hunting drug dealers, and get 25 times as much. For that matter some of us could do something that has no danger at all and get far more.

[BlueNinja]

That’s an introductory rate for someone who isn’t well established. It’s also risk free, i.e. people aren’t shooting at you. It also isn’t $500 a day. It’s $10K for the job and it’s up to you how long it takes. If you’d had Q7 and been able to do the whole thing in an hour, would they have paid you less? No? Then the amount of time it took was a reflection of your skills.

True. You guys are being paid better for less work because your skills are better established. It's just not as much as you want.

Saying we got $36K a day for Overclocked is misleading and wrong. If the job had taken 2 days, would we have gotten $72K? No? Then stop talking about the per day rate.

If it had taken you two days, you would have been pulling around $40k for that mission, due to the dangers involved.

In same sample mission (AB: Elites first few pages), the actual combat only took a few seconds. This is pretty standard meaning that Elites aren’t in combat most of the time.

The fact of the matter is we were in combat, against novas. Worse, this is EXPECTED! If four elites are hired to blow up a water purification plant, and they expect two elites to try to stop them, then that’s a combat mission where nova level opposition is expected. It’s even a combat mission if the other two elites screw up and go to the wrong location.

Elites are also expected to be ready for nova-level combat with every single assignment. You folks aren't. Michal even told you that Overclocked was outside the bounds of what he was looking for.

However, Michal can pay the usual rates, and everyone knows this. Worse, even if some of the PCs didn’t know what the usual rates were when they signed up, presumably they will find out and unlike Quaid ours is on going work.

Our current situation is like where your “pro bono” lawyer is expected to live off of his “pro bono” work.

You're getting paid (somewhat) reduced rates, yes. The only two people in the group who could really earn more money are Paul (healing and weather manip) and Eli (engineering). Brandt might be able to now (thanks to what he's bought, and more importantly, the SGE stuff that let him buy it) but he didn't have that at the beginning. Everyone else is being paid slightly more than they probably would get on the open market.

Basically you were paid a pittance but you also got commission. With the entire package considered you were pulling in about 3 mil a year (or about 25 times what we are), doing something that was almost as dangerous as what we are doing now.

It was sort of a commission, yes. And you guys can get the same thing, you just haven't hit any worlds with that opportunity yet. (Then again, you could have side-tripped to a bank in Overclocked, cleaned the place out, and come home with a few hundred grand each. *shrug*)

And can we do the same? Can Paul get another $20K to repair some rich baseline’s heart?

Between missions, why not? Angela does that sometimes. Rieller and Claire both do occasional 'contract' work to rebuild weapons; Rieller actually specializes in historical pieces and has made a few guest appearances on Antique Roadshow.

You mean $120K. And if we do this for 25 years then we’ll almost get what Michal did for one year of hunting drug dealers.

Whoops, bad math day for me. What you mean is, if you spend 25 years exploring backwater, useless planets that occasionally have nova combat, you'll get that.

No, but we have better job offers out there. We could do something less dangerous, like hunting drug dealers, and get 25 times as much. For that matter some of us could do something that has no danger at all and get far more.

The key point there is some of you could. Actually, two of you could. (and Eli might contest that, since that 'no danger at all' is what caused his eruption) For all of the party except Paul, the pay is perfectly equitable to their abilities.

[AnonCastillo]

If it had taken you two days, you would have been pulling around $40k for that mission, due to the dangers involved.

Ah, so we're being penalized for doing our job quickly. I'll make sure the current mission takes twice as long.

It was sort of a commission, yes. And you guys can get the same thing, you just haven't hit any worlds with that opportunity yet. (Then again, you could have side-tripped to a bank in Overclocked, cleaned the place out, and come home with a few hundred grand each. *shrug*)

Except that any bills would be duplicates of existing bills, which would bring suspicion of counterfeiting against us (and as novas, using matter creation to create perfect replicas of money isn't out of the question; In fact, I just got an awesome idea for a new character). If we'd managed to find a gold vault or something, maybe we could get away with it, if Michal didn't object.

Whoops, bad math day for me. What you mean is, if you spend 25 years exploring backwater, useless planets that occasionally have nova combat, you'll get that.

Two missions, two nova battles (even if two were on the same mission). Current mission definitely has novas who are definitely preparing for battle, so we'll probably go three for three.

The key point there is some of you could. Actually, two of you could. (and Eli might contest that, since that 'no danger at all' is what caused his eruption) For all of the party except Paul, the pay is perfectly equitable to their abilities.

So you haven't taken up my idea of scaling pay based on the usefulness of our abilities because.... ?

[BlueNinja]

Ah, so we're being penalized for doing our job quickly. I'll make sure the current mission takes twice as long.

::rolleyes

Except that any bills would be duplicates of existing bills, which would bring suspicion of counterfeiting against us (and as novas, using matter creation to create perfect replicas of money isn't out of the question; In fact, I just got an awesome idea for a new character). If we'd managed to find a gold vault or something, maybe we could get away with it, if Michal didn't object.

Why would he object? It'd probably be more legal that some of the stuff he did for the DEA.

Two missions, two nova battles (even if two were on the same mission). Current mission definitely has novas who are definitely preparing for battle, so we'll probably go three for three.

You guys were in one combat. (You witnessed a second, but weren't part of it, and none of the participants were throwing around massive area attacks.)

So you haven't taken up my idea of scaling pay based on the usefulness of our abilities because.... ?

I'm still thinking about it; mostly because it creates almost a caste system based on pay scale, which doesn't exactly promote working as a team. Paul's abilities are more easily marketable in the outside world, that doesn't make him more powerful than anyone else in the group. Jonathan's abilities are far more powerful that Paul's, just not as easily marketed in a capitalist society. So you're telling me to pay you less? ::huh

[Alex Green]

True. You guys are being paid better for less work because your skills are better established. It's just not as much as you want.

$120K a year is MORE than 3 Million? Keep in mind Michal been careful to cut us out of patents and the like. Maybe this is a misunderstanding on my part, but as far as I can tell we are paid per mission and that’s it.

If it had taken you two days, you would have been pulling around $40k for that mission, due to the dangers involved.

Sounds like this could encourage the wrong kind of behavior.

Elites are also expected to be ready for nova-level combat with every single assignment. You folks aren't. Michal even told you that Overclocked was outside the bounds of what he was looking for.

First, it was Michal that send us to Overclocked, and we knew darn well going in that there were going to be novas around. So we had to be ready for nova level combat.

And then we have this mission, where once again, Michal send us in knowing that there are other novas around. And once again, we have to be ready for nova level combat.

So how is this different than what elites do?

1) People on the other side haven’t hired other elites to stop us (which doesn’t prevent them from being hostile, we are on their home tuff after all)

2) We have no access to legal/social support on the other side.

,,

Then again, you could have side-tripped to a bank in Overclocked, cleaned the place out, and come home with a few hundred grand each. *shrug*

??? Are you sure you want to say that? Image of nova criminals from another dimension running amok making a good ‘first impression’.

And my impression has been that anything we bring back is Michal’s.

Between missions, why not?

Understood.

What you mean is, if you spend 25 years exploring backwater, useless planets that occasionally have nova combat, you'll get that.

And how much should it take to hire elites to ‘occasionally have nova combat’?

You're getting paid (somewhat) reduced rates, yes. The only two people in the group who could really earn more money are Paul (healing and weather manip) and Eli (engineering). … Everyone else is being paid slightly more than they probably would get on the open market.

OK, so let’s put together a business plan for each nova where they make significantly more money without the strong potential of nova violence. Note there is something in the core book talking about the bonuses for recruiters and the big powers they are looking for is enhanced intelligence and/or interfacing with computers.

Ash has Mega-Manip with Persuader, he could sell sand to Saudis. In RL a good salesman makes a lot. If he got a job on a used car lot he’d make more than he does now, any corporation that has a sales department would do better.

Eli and Paul have been covered.

Archimedes has considerable Mega-Int.

Brandt has Mega-Dex 5 and Mega-Int.

Jonathan supposedly has Precognition.

Theo is a cyberkentic. That means she starts at 8 digits from Microsoft.

Esteban I don’t know well enough to judge well, but I’ll bet he could make a killing in the security business as a stand in.

[AnonCastillo]

You guys were in one combat. (You witnessed a second, but weren't part of it, and none of the participants were throwing around massive area attacks.)

Still, even one nova level combat, especially on a world with such a strong quantum field making the battles more dangerous, not to mention the negative health effects that took a month or more for some of us to get rid of, should be worth more than 9k. The fact that we completed the mission quickly should be reason for bonuses, not for lower pay.

I'm still thinking about it; mostly because it creates almost a caste system based on pay scale, which doesn't exactly promote working as a team. Paul's abilities are more easily marketable in the outside world, that doesn't make him more powerful than anyone else in the group. Jonathan's abilities are far more powerful that Paul's, just not as easily marketed in a capitalist society. So you're telling me to pay you less? ::huh

You can pay Jonathan less than Paul, whose powers are worth more; or at least you could for the first two missions. Now that his mega-wits and mega-charisma are coming in handy as team leader, he should probably be in the top tier, but Jonathan wouldn't have an IC objection to not being the best paid member of the team. My character probably is the least powerful member of the team (a distinction which came in handy in overclocked ), and some characters' powers are more useful on certain missions than others, so if you give individual bonuses on top of base pay there may be some missions where I'm the best paid and some where I'm the worst.

Paul makes some good points; Brandt, Eli, and Esteban all have sufficient combat abilities that they could be hired out as elites (hell, Esteban was hired specifically for nova-on-nova combat, and Brandt took out half a team of novas singlehandedly (on accident, no less!)). Theo's Cyberkinesis, while it hasn't come into use in-mission so far, would be worth a lot if it did. Ash could probably talk Michal into paying us ten times what he pays us now with a good enough manipulation roll.

[SkyLion]

Like I have said before, Myself and Esteban arent all that concerned with money. When you dont need to eat, have no bills, and can trek through wilderness with abandon who cares about money? Its only useful in the city...Not that he doesn't use it, its just not that important.

I do find the topic of our abilities interesting though so just wanted to add my $0.02.

1.) Ex put up Theo's char sheet. She isn't a cyberkinetic (unless she bought it with some xp.)

2.) Aside from being a security double, think about spy work. Not to mention being a combat elite or even a criminal if he was so inclined, a la the chameleon. Or for something similar but less dangerous. He turns into an avian and then implants a micronized camera in his Eufiber. Imagine the killing he'ld make as a paparazzi. ("A little bird told me..." ::sly) Or working as a nova stuntman in Mumbai or Hong Kong (Hollywood is so 20th century...) Theres also escort work to consider, which could be erotic in nature or a ruse for bodyguarding. How much would all that be worth to the upper crust?

[BlueNinja]

$120K a year is MORE than 3 Million? Keep in mind Michal been careful to cut us out of patents and the like. Maybe this is a misunderstanding on my part, but as far as I can tell we are paid per mission and that’s it.

$120k a year is more than the $100k a year he was making with the DEA. And so far, there hasn't been anything to get patents *from* so you haven't been cut out of anything. Currently, if you come back with something that could be marketable/patentable, Michal's going to pay you guys a massive bonus; I said that some of you could suggest a percentage rather than a flat fee.

First, it was Michal that send us to Overclocked, and we knew darn well going in that there were going to be novas around. So we had to be ready for nova level combat.

And then we have this mission, where once again, Michal send us in knowing that there are other novas around. And once again, we have to be ready for nova level combat.

Actually, he said it was a good chance of novas because of a higher quantum field. But I'll concede this point.

??? Are you sure you want to say that? Image of nova criminals from another dimension running amok making a good ‘first impression’.

Who are you stealing from in an abandoned bank in an abandoned city? ::confused

And my impression has been that anything we bring back is Michal’s.

If it's new technology, yes. If you guys want souveniers or stuff that doesn't need research to be used or duplicated, he really won't care.

Ash has Mega-Manip with Persuader, he could sell sand to Saudis. In RL a good salesman makes a lot. If he got a job on a used car lot he’d make more than he does now, any corporation that has a sales department would do better.

True.

Eli and Paul have been covered.

Archimedes has considerable Mega-Int.

Arch has accepted working for Michal as a researcher, so he's on a more fixed salary compared to your own at the moment. Again, pay raises come with results.

Brandt has Mega-Dex 5 and Mega-Int.

Jonathan supposedly has Precognition.

Theo is a cyberkentic. That means she starts at 8 digits from Microsoft.

Esteban I don’t know well enough to judge well, but I’ll bet he could make a killing in the security business as a stand in.

I don't know where you got Jonathan and Theo's powers from ... Brandt would make better money from his M-Int than the Hyperspeed. (Heck, he could go into the painting business, do a hundred houses a day, and make better money than with Hyperspeed.)

----

I think the overall point I'm trying to make is that right now the group are all probationary status. They're like a research project that hasn't shown acceptable results yet. Within three worlds, you guys should find at least one thing that will make Michal go "Yes! This is what I'm looking for!" and your pay will go up. I will however give more thought to the nova-combat-pay bonuses.

Still, even one nova level combat, especially on a world with such a strong quantum field making the battles more dangerous, not to mention the negative health effects that took a month or more for some of us to get rid of, should be worth more than 9k. The fact that we completed the mission quickly should be reason for bonuses, not for lower pay.

Hmm ... that is a good point.

You can pay Jonathan less than Paul, whose powers are worth more; or at least you could for the first two missions. Now that his mega-wits and mega-charisma are coming in handy as team leader, he should probably be in the top tier, but Jonathan wouldn't have an IC objection to not being the best paid member of the team. My character probably is the least powerful member of the team (a distinction which came in handy in overclocked ), and some characters' powers are more useful on certain missions than others, so if you give individual bonuses on top of base pay there may be some missions where I'm the best paid and some where I'm the worst.

Another good point, and one I'll probably implement in the future. There are specific episodes that will 'best feature' each character, so those would be excellent reasons for specific bonuses.

(hell, Esteban was hired specifically for nova-on-nova combat, and Brandt took out half a team of novas singlehandedly (on accident, no less!)).

True, but taking out your own team doesn't usually make you more hire-able as an elite. ::wink

Theo's Cyberkinesis, while it hasn't come into use in-mission so far, would be worth a lot if it did. Ash could probably talk Michal into paying us ten times what he pays us now with a good enough manipulation roll.

That would be interesting ... war of the mega-manipulation die rolls. ::laugh

[Expendable]

This is the reason it's never a good idea to let people discuss what they're getting paid. Next time, send checks as PMs.

[BlueNinja]

Ok folks, just to makes things clearer, I've sat down and written out the pay scales for the missions from Ep 3 through Ep 9. The flat minimum for a world where all you do is show up, look around, and go home, is $8k; the most is $25k. This way, missions grant you a fixed amount of money, regardless of the time they take, based on the difficulty perceived at the time of the mission briefing.

All of the episodes have bonuses based on what you can bring back that is useful, and/or what you accomplish; as an example, sending back the images of the different Meklar fleet in Hero Worship has already netted you a $4k bonus (with an extra $1k for Theo, since she has to draw it all out). Bonuses for future episodes range from $500 to $15k, with most of them being in the $2k to $5k range. All the missions have multiple bonuses, and a few have penalties for just in case you guys really screw things up. (No, robbing banks in Overclocked is not penalty-significant by Michal's standards. The US Treasury may or may not agree with him. ::wink )

On top of this, I'm considering granting a percentage bonus for SGE backing, with the obvious limitation that no one can have a backing higher than Jonathan. But I think that might be the wrong incentive to have the PCs integrate themselves further into Michal's company, since some of the episodes have sub-plots better designed for that. What do you guys think? It's either that, or add a flat bonus onto Jonathan and Eli's pay (and Ash's, if either of them end up KO'd), which is easier but also doesn't seem completely equitable.

[edit] I'm also having trouble deciding what to do about pay for the Home Earth episodes. Only one of them is an actual 'mission' from Michal, the rest of them depend mostly on the closeness of the team and enlightened self-interest and a bit of CYOA, so they're not exactly things that Michal should be paying the team for. On the other hand, I don't want you (or your characters) to feel cheated for going through a whole episode where they risked life and/or limb and/or reputation, for a few XP alone. [/edit]

[Bahamut810]

Ok, I have mostly not been reading this due to tiredness and lack of time. My take on it is this...

There are multiple factors that can go into pay:

Base Pay

Danger

Combat

Usefulness

Time Away

Social Status

Being On Call

Hush Money

Some or all of thoes could go into pay for Super Geeks.

Base Pay:

This is the pay that you will get if you just sit there and do nothing on a mission (you are there), And nothing really happens.

Danger:

Considering the nature of what we are doing, we are *always* in danger. Just becuase we know what we know. If people find out we nova's are working for SGE doing who knows what, we are prime targets to be kidnapped (or taken in interest of (inter)national security) to be probed for that information. As Nullifier has pointed out before, we are always in danger of not returning (and potentially being stuck in a place we dont want to be in). Being 'left behind' is multiplied when the person in question cant survive in whatever environment (like Theo). What happens, after all, if you accidentally get stuck in a planet that is covered in methaine? This is usually an add-on for oil drillers when storms happen (if I have heard correctly).

Combat Pay:

Pay if we have to go into a drag-down fight. We have only had to do this once (so far...).

Usefulness:

Powers that could mean the difference between life and death should net some cash. This saves money in the long run, especially if you stop a mediocre death of your team and save finders fees for finding a new team...fees for making new equipment. Different things like that. Its also worth noting that we arent just starting novas, we all have experience under our belts (60xp is very significant).

Time Away:

This wont come into affect for most missions, but is defenatly a must for missions over a month. *Especially* when you aren't doing anything. Lets say we are all sent on a mission that leaves us watching someone or something for 3 months. We arent really doing anything but watching and most of us dont have special powers to watch stuff (that I can remember). So we sit there for 3 months....doing nothing...for $8k. That just wont do.

Social Status:

Basically...Better known novas will get payed better. Ash wont be making what Totenez makes becuase Totenez is known world wide as the come-to man to kill people, while Ash is not known like htat.

Being on Call:

This is an extra fee right here if we can get called back at the drop of a hat.

Hush Money:

Sure we signed a non-disclosure agreement and have been threatened with death...but if someone (im not nameing any names) wanted to try their luck and was able to pull off a freezing of SGE funds when he turned them over to Utopia... Well, a hush fee would be in order for that.

You also seem to be underestimating what people can do as well. At least for Ash you are (since I cant remember much about what the others have shown they can do). Ash has persuader, sure...but his biggest selling point is his gut. A basline financial leader needs to know if a stock will be good? A quick call and a gut guess and there is a good chanse you will have the right answer. All he needs is a cell phone...thats not here nor there though.

Now...the fees dont need to be Totenez worthy, but they *should* be nova worthy (unless another fee is agreed upon, like in the Broke Back Mountian scenario). And the *base* fee for a nova job is in the area of $3 million (I *think*).

You could even make different categories (like I did) and have Major and Minor event pays (Like in Overclocked the Nova fight we had to get away from would be Major while the Roaches and Baselines in the first mission would have been Minor Danger Pay).

Thats just my thoughts on the subject.

[Expendable]

For assignments on Earth, standard pay.

If we do something outside of the normal contract but of value to Michal, bonus pay by his discretion.

[AnonCastillo]

Actually, the hush money is a really good point. I believe Michal threatened to have someone killed if they talk? Expecting us to keep quiet over something so important is worth quite a bit of money. It's certainly in Michal's best interests to show us that we'll make more money working for him than we will selling him out.

[SkyLion]

Just my two cents, but it seems like BN is trying to justify *not* paying us millions, when, at least as I recall from the setting, Novas are THE jet set...even in our modern times thousands of dollars arent jack. Ive stayed out of this till now but the salaries Blue lists in the thousands of dollars is laughable (sorry BN...) This stuff is bleeding edge and worth BANK to Michal. I think part of the problem is that BN is basing his idea of standars of of his old characters Michals career. No offense again dude, but your ST ripped you off. Mega Intelligent Novas make BILLIONS and could make trillions or more if they "put their mind to it." It also seems that you have seriously lowballed SGE's resources and clout (for a company with the resources to change Venuses orbit...I mean come on...)

,,

I know you may balk as ST at the idea of just "giving" PCs millions and millions to play with but thats (the Nova) life.

,,,,

And you need to get out of the idea of justifying it in terms of hourly wages...special contracts and salaries dont work that way...

[phoenix]

It's only "combat" if they fight back. ::tongue

[Expendable]

Actually, the hush money is a really good point. I believe Michal threatened to have someone killed if they talk? Expecting us to keep quiet over something so important is worth quite a bit of money. It's certainly in Michal's best interests to show us that we'll make more money working for him than we will selling him out.

It's easier to abandon us on some alternate world capable of supporting life. That reminds me, I really need to rethink what I'm bringing with me. Step through with the wrong person I might have a longer stay that I thought - especially when the portable gateway is missing that crucial circuit....

[SkyLion]

It's easier to abandon us on some alternate world capable of supporting life. That reminds me, I really need to rethink what I'm bringing with me. Step through with the wrong person I might have a longer stay that I thought - especially when the portable gateway is missing that crucial circuit....

,,

True...you might get stranded on a deserted planet with Ash... ::tongue

[BlueNinja]

I think part of the problem is that BN is basing his idea of standars of of his old characters Michals career. No offense again dude, but your ST ripped you off. Mega Intelligent Novas make BILLIONS and could make trillions or more if they "put their mind to it."

I'm beginning to come to that conclusion myself.

So, probably Sunday, I'm going to sit down and decided on a reasonable minimum and maximum for each mission for the whole Season 1. If the maximum is less than 7 digits, then I'll start hiking up pay bonuses. But I know already ... the maximum bonuses for episode 9, right now, is $110,000. I'm honestly not expecting you to come home with more than $50k, but it's possible. As long as you don't screw up, that episode will grant you as much as the first three put together would (barring more bonuses) give you. Part of the thing, as I said earlier, is that your team hasn't yet proven to be worth a massive expense.

True...you might get stranded on a deserted planet with Ash... ::tongue

*cues Twilight Zone music*

[Nullifier]

Ok., so I've objected to the lack of realism in this game from the get-go, so I'm sure it comes as no surprise when I agree with those who say they're not getting paid what they should be.

However, if BN is basing your payscale off of Michal's career, don't think that his ST screwed him. Remember Michal was doing government work. Government work always pays lousy. You folks, though, are private sector, which should pay a whole hell of a lot better.

Maybe it's just me, but you couldn't get me to step through a one-way portal to a whole other universe for less than $500k up front, superpowers or not, even knowing that there's probably a way back, and that doesn't even take into account hazard pay, bonuses, and a retainer that should be somewhere in the high 6 figues, low 7 figures range.

I think the point is, BN, that you need to add a 0 or two to all your figures, at the very least. Of course, you're welcome not to, being the ST and all. ::wink

All the other unrealistic aspects of this game make the issue of pay almost laughably insignificant in comparison anyhow, imho. ::sly ::tongue ::wink

This will be my first and last post on this subject, just weighing in. Y'all have fun now, ya hear? ::biggrin

[Alex Green]

Michal was also given a license to kill and/or steal and sent out to do exactly that. That was a huge part of his compensation, and with those incentives he would then choose his missions to do the most economic damage to the other side, which was what the government wanted. His pay scale should be calculated to include his bonus since he had close to full control over how much and when it would be earned.

[archer]

Either way, I think it's pretty cool that BN is being an open enough ST to listen to his players and make adjustments. I'm sure we've all had those nightmare ST's that blatantly ignore player complaints and try to force feed plotlines. Keep up the good work BlueNinja!

[BlueNinja]

I think the point is, BN, that you need to add a 0 or two to all your figures, at the very least. Of course, you're welcome not to, being the ST and all. ::wink

For just episodes 1-11, the flat minimum everyone will comes back with is $82,000, with the lowest per-mission pay being the $6k for Fallout. The maximum is $436,000, with $168k being from episode 11 Help Me, Obi-Won Kenobi. For half a season, that should be the pay for five months or so of work. At the current moment, I'm not going with pay for episodes # 10, 16, 18, and 21, because the hook of the episodes has nothing to do with the exploration. I may revise this depending on how the episodes go.

I'm going to go re-write more episodes so that I can set the pay scales and bonuses. If the total maximum for the series doesn't come out to at least seven digits, then I'm vamping up the pay scale by at least double.

[BlueNinja]

Can someone who took part in Quantum Zero: Elites please tell me how much everyone made for their first mission? It'll give me a better idea of how much all of you are expecting.