Aberrant RPG - Chrysalis

[BlueNinja]

I just noticed this last night while looking at the Chrysalis costs to buy powers.

Why is it cheaper to buy Quantum, than it is to increase a Level 3 power? That's broken IMO; they're equal in nova points, and cheaper for the power when paying normal experience rates. ::blink So why are they backwards when you're in Chrysalis?

[Nullifier]

That's a very good question. I'd venture that the answer is inherent in the nature of Crysalis itself. If you'll notice, only mega-attribs and powers related to archetype and/or aberrations and quantum-related powers can be increased using the reduced costs. This is because Crysalis is based around the deliberate, conscious channeling of 'excess' quantum energies towards the nova's own self to mold the nova into their idealized self-image as per their archetype. In this way they're able to keep their continuing transformation into something other than human under their control, even reducing harmful, uncontrolled build-ups of that same energy. While in a Crysalis a nova is in touch with its deepest quantum self, able to alter aspects of its quantum make-up at a fundamental level impossible otherwise. It would, therefore, stand to reason that increasing control over their Quantum would be simpler than increasing their control over complex and powerful off-shoots of that control, i.e. level 3+ powers. Of course, if it really bothers you, you could always change it in your own games... ::biggrin

[Alex Green]

The other question is, "Is this broken"?

For the most part I think the answer is "no".

Drawbacks:

1) The final stage is hard to fire off.

2) Screwing up is really, really bad.

3) Following the path is really hard and probably generates more taint than you convert during the final stage.

4) Big, bad, huge negative side effects (alienation from humanity, aberrations, etc).

5) And to top it all of, your final reward for this is half (or not quite half) cost on *some* powers... but to cash in on this leaves you helpless and probably takes more time than is actually worth while.

Example for #3: You can only convert temp taint if you got it on your path. So you if are on your path 80% of the time, those 5 points of Perm Chrysalis (or 50 points of temp Chrysalis) also generated 13 points of temp Taint that you couldn't convert. Utopians or Independants presumably dorm or rest for a while and try to burn this temp taint off. Terats basically can't because they have to powermax all the time to generate temp taint.

And that's *if* you spent 80% of your time on your path. 50% would mean you got an extra 50 points of temp taint.

Example for #5: You spend a year in C, and spend 52 experience points.

Question: If you hadn't been on ice somewhere, how many experience points would you have earned?

[PowerStar]

I find that it is not really unbalanced for the reasons that Nullifier and Alex Green gave. It has been only twice that I had my PC able to undergo the Big-C, and each time, my biggest concern was to dump permanent Taint. Also upped my Quantum Score and Mega-Appearanceas well as Mega-Charisma(Marvel Type).

Other than that, I only really inreased my Flight/Hypermove(Flight) with extras in the Big-C... ::biggrin

[LDKNemene]

I haven't played with big-C yet, but my first reaction reading it was ah-now power mxing seems a bit more worhtwhile...

Powermaxing does not seem worth the cost to me in standard abarrent, but Crys. makes it deceptively attractive. Characters are more likely to aquire tain when pursuing Crys, because it seems more worth it. This makes the transition to Trinity era seem a bit more believable.

[crapulax007]

Where do you find this rules for Chrysalis ?

[Alex Green]

AB:Teragen

[madcat82]

I got to get that book...

Of course, there is a larger chance of pigs pawing runways in hell than that Il find it...

[Alex Green]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/156...5Fencoding=UTF8

[Blue Thunder]

O_O

Damn, I just might buy one of those copies!

Edit - I just did! And now the hard part...the 4 to 14 day wait.

[BlueNinja]

Here's another little thought about Chrysalis to make you think ...

Let's say your character is going into Chrysalis for the sole purpose of buying higher levels of quantum - like Q6. If you shell out the 20XP for Q6, and then drop another 10XP to remove a point of permanent taint, does that mean you treat the Chrysalis as though you gained quantum without the taint?

[Alex Green]

You'd have to buy the Q outside of the big C considering you can't buy things tainted, but otherwise... it depends, but probably not.

Chances are extremely good that buying things tainted part meant you got an extra aberration, which is going to stick to you and will be random.

[BlueNinja]

You'd have to buy the Q outside of the big C considering you can't buy things tainted, but otherwise... it depends, but probably not.

Um, no ... buying Quantum of 5 dots and higher gives you an automatic point of Taint for each one. Not buying it tainted for half cost.

[Alex Green]

I don't think you can buy things tainted inside of C.

Q6 (+2 Taint)

One taken tainted (+1 taint for a total of 3).

So if getting to the point where you can enter C even gives you one point of taint, then you got an extra aberration.

[BlueNinja]

I don't think you can buy things tainted inside of C.

I'm not talking about buying it tainted. I'm saying that no matter how you pay for it, going from Q5 to Q6 gives you a point of taint. If you pay for it in Chrysalis, and pay to drop one point of taint, haven't you effectively raised your quantum into the Mastery levels without the Taint to match?

[Alex Green]

Ah, my bad. ... And the same answer, it depends. Let's assume you can pick your order in which your purchase becomes effective.

At Taint 0.

+1 Q.

-1 Taint.

Result: No change in taint. No side effects.

At Taint 1 through 3.

-1 Taint.

+1 Q.

Result: No change in taint. No side effects.

At Taint 5

-1 Taint.

+1 Q (increasing taint back to 5, giving you one more minor aberration at random).

Result: No change in taint. One more minor aberration.

Note this is much better than:

At Taint 5

+1 Q (increasing taint to 6, giving you a random medium aberration).

-1 Taint.

Result: No change in taint. One medium aberration.

[Timeslip]

I have the feeling that you are talking past each other a bit. Let me see if I can untangle this a bit with an example.

BlueHawk is a Portent who has 5 permanent Taint and 5 Quantum when she enters Chrysalis. She is going to try to increase her Quantum. However, the automatic point of Taint gained for adding a dot of Quantum above 4 isn't something she can transform into Chrysalis points via her Portent Archtype (since it is gained as a full permanent point rather than as incremental temporary points). So, in addition to the 20 experience points she is spending for the 6th dot of Quantum (at the Chrysalis rate of 4 x current rating), she spends 10 experience points to remove the dot of permanent Taint as it is accrued.

Now, we already know that (assuming a successful Chrysalis) BlueHawk will come out of her shell in 30 weeks or so with 6 Quantum. Since she started at 5 permanent Taint, would gain one for increasing Quantum but paid to remove one as well, she will also come out of the cocoon with 5 permanent Taint - same as she had when she went in.

The question is: will she come out with a brand-new aberration...and if so, what sort will it be? There's three possibilities:

1. Paying the cost to remove a point of permanent Taint cancelled out the increase in Taint from the increased Quantum. No new aberration.

2. The permanent Taint is first reduced to 4 dots. Then, as the 6th dot of Quantum comes on line, a permanent dot of Taint is accrued, bumping it back up to 5 Taint. A new low-level aberration is gained.

3. The 6th dot of Quantum temporarily ramps BlueHawk's permanent Taint to 6; then, it it is reduced to 5 by the reduce-Taint efforts. A new medium-level aberration is gained.

If we figure all things that happen in Chrysalis are simultaneous, option 1 would appear to be the answer. If we figure that changes in Chrysalis happen in an order of some sort, it would be option 2 or 3, depending on the order...and whether or not the player can choose the order.

I suspect that the actual answer is going to come down to the type of chronicle you are in and the Storyteller's opinions on Taint.

[Alex Green]

I suspect that the actual answer is going to come down to the type of chronicle you are in and the Storyteller's opinions on Taint.

Granted.

If we figure all things that happen in Chrysalis are simultaneous, option 1 would appear to be the answer. If we figure that changes in Chrysalis happen in an order of some sort, it would be option 2 or 3, depending on the order...and whether or not the player can choose the order.

From a mechanical stand point:

Considering we are talking about a process that will take months and which has a defined rate of process, I don’t see what would justify the word “simultaneous”. You enter it, you process your changes at a rate of one exp per week, then you leave. If I enter a tunnel and you don’t see me until I leave, you shouldn’t assume that everything that happened inside the tunnel was “simultaneous”.

Further, if it were possible to buy “-1 Taint”, a normal wish list would result in your second option. I don’t see why we should treat this differently than just handing the ST a wish list and going off screen for 7 months. Reducing your taint doesn't get rid of aberrations. You earned another point of taint, that's not connected to anything else you did while in there (or at least we have no hints towards it being connected).

From a philosophical stand point:

The entire process of Chrysalis isn’t built to reduce aberrations, it was built to increase the number of aberrations in trade for other considerations.. Aberrations are a sign of evolution and letting someone have evolution without aberration would run counter to that philosophy.

[Timeslip]

Considering we are talking about a process that will take months and which has a defined rate of process, I don’t see what would justify the word “simultaneous”. You enter it, you process your changes at a rate of one exp per week, then you leave. If I enter a tunnel and you don’t see me until I leave, you shouldn’t assume that everything that happened inside the tunnel was “simultaneous”.

That's certainly one way of looking at it. Another is to view it as, well, a chrysalis.

When a caterpillar finishes building it's cocoon and starts to transform, it doesn't get rid of legs first, then differentially segment its body, then grow wings, then get new optics, then get antennae. Rather, all of the changes are happening together, gradually developing in parallel rather than in series. When the butterfly emerges, it has finished undergoing a metamorphosis that has reshaped it as a piece, not as pieces.

Like I said: different ways of looking at it (and none very well defined by the fine folks at White Wolf).

[Alex Green]

That's certainly one way of looking at it.  Another is to view it as, well, a chrysalis.

When a caterpillar finishes building it's cocoon and starts to transform, it doesn't get rid of legs first, then differentially segment its body, then grow wings, then get new optics, then get antennae.  Rather, all of the changes are happening together, gradually developing in parallel rather than in series.  When the butterfly emerges, it has finished undergoing a metamorphosis that has reshaped it as a piece, not as pieces.

I'm not an expert, but I seriously doubt that if I cut open a chrysalis half way through the process I'm going to find half a wing as well as half a set of optics. It's likely that one of them develops first.

It's a process. It has a beginning, and an end, and it only seems like all the changes are happening together and in parallel because we don't understand it well and we don't see the seperate steps. In real life, an unborn human baby's hair doesn't grow in parallel with it's heart and eyes.

And (moving back to abby) all that ignores that the nova in question inflicted another point of taint on himself. So he gets an aberration. Granted, he also got rid of a point of taint. But the rules don't say he gets rid of his aberration just because he got rid of the point of taint. He didn't get that point of Q taint free, all he did was raise his Q and lower his Taint. Those two events aren't connected even if they did happen at the same time (which they probably didn't).