Trinity RPG - Does Aberrant work in Trinity?

[Dr. 0]

It's an old debate, but I was woundering what people currently feel about it. Do you think it is possible to play Aberrant characters in the Trinity setting? Are they too powerful? In what ways? What ways would you want them less powerful. What concerns do you have about them?

[Ayre el KaBeer]

The problem with using them in the setting is if they're not discrete everyone is going to try to hunt them down and kill/capture them. It's all to do with societies fear of the Aberrants (understandibly), and the govenernments aren't going to let a second nova age happen, so it's easier for them to kill all 'mutants' on sight.

As for power level many people complain that the novas are way too powerfull, but reading the description in Trinity (not the rules section) the aberrants were discustingly overpowered. One of these descriptions says something like "to kill a nova would cost the lives of thousands". The Aberrant corebooks rules on powers covers what was in Trinity's nova age descriptions, quite nicely imho, but completely outstrips Trinity era abberants.

[Dr. 0]

A very good point about the social aspect of playing Aberrants/Novas, Ayre el KaBeer. Terra Verde and Asia Assendent do make good pushes for more social acceptance, but this is a good problem I failed to note.

About power levels. What level of power do you feel would ballance them more?

Personaly, I am a bit frustated that the only real flaws an Aberrant/Nova can take are Taint related, but if you are playing a Trinity era Nova, you would have next to no Taint anyway if you want to survive. So how do you give them good weaknesses? This is a problem I think might need to be addressed.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

About power levels. What level of power do you feel would ballance them more?

Either keep them focussed in what they can do, or make them so versatile that what they can achieve with any one power isn't going to be much. The other, more traditional option is to cut their Nova points, usually to 15.

Personaly, I am a bit frustated that the only real flaws an Aberrant/Nova can take are Taint related, but if you are playing a Trinity era Nova, you would have next to no Taint anyway if you want to survive. So how do you give them good weaknesses? This is a problem I think might need to be addressed.

I think the best flaw you can give an aberrant in trinity era, is their erruption. What their preconceptions were about aberrants, their fears, their personalities, etc. These are some of the things that will come out once they've erupted, this explains why so many Trinity era aberrants are tentacled monsters.

[Daredevil]

This is a good topic, but what about the social problems in running such a game? Would the Nova PC's have to be "undercover," or would you need to think of plot reason for them to be socially excepted so people don't just run away screaming? Should the PC Psions know what they are working with, or should that be hidden as well?

Playing a hidden Nova is an enormous handicap in itself, as one showy Quantum power will alert people to the fact that the woman who threw it might not be a Neutral of a Psion. You would basicly be playing a Superman trying to seem like a Clark Kent. ::biggrin

[Finbar]

Some suggestions for novas:

1) Novas can hide their quantum by using a quantum-producing source, For example, walking around in a non-biotech power armor. This applies to interesting uses of powers, such Cyberkinesis with the Parasitic extra (allowing one to inhabit the shell of a nuclear-powered robot).

2) Keep to space. As long as you stay 100K km from any established point (like the colonies and Karoo), you should be fine. That distance should keep you out of atyunement range.

3) Keep in mind that everyone loves a hero. If you have some ability that is of use, or you have proven yourself, most people will tend to support you rather than try to kill you, even if you do have tentacles. Just keep 'em hid....

4) Dormancy...

Hope that helps;-)...

FR

[Finbar]

Oh yeah...power level....

Not as nasty as you'd think...Just start Quantum no higher than 5, and starting NP no higher than 30, and you'll be okay...Regardless of the press, 90% of novas can still be killed by a simple bullet (high soaks aren't as common as you'd think), and VARG's, telepaths and teleporters are a lot more effective that you'd think....

Think about: A telepath can still mind-bend them, and teleporters can blink them anywhere they've even just heard about (hot toasted abbie, anyone ::devil ?)...

FR

[Bahamut810]

What, exactly, is the difference between a Chib and a Eden Nova? or a 2008 nova? I know the node...but they do pretty much the same thing.

[VictorHFrost KSC]

Well, a chib's powers aren't quite as universally applicable as nova's (though in theory, with enough juice, a QK could do almost everything a nova could). Also Novas don't have to dump nearly as much juice to get the same effects. Psi is generally more expensive by and large and is also harder to generate, but it usually makes more lasting and potent effects. Chibs are the psions answer to novalike godhood, but they have to put a whole lot more effort into it than novas (example from the upcomming India Underground: most QK powers cost at least 2 psi and as I recall the upper levels cost 3-4 psi and a willpower)

The difference between a 2008 nova and one created in Trinity is the amount of quantum and tain you start with. Nvas in the Trinity era (2122or thereabouts) start with 3taint and 3 quantum and every point of quantum they gain through play or character creation translates to a point of taint (perm). There are a couple of reasons for this. One is public perception of novas as powemad fiends (thereby channeling eruptions towards a mindset and powerset that are conducive to high taint emissions and poor control of quantum in general).As well as the idea that in the Aerrant era Mal was most likely subtly manipulating the quantum levels he generated to produce more stable and balanced eruptions.

Edenites are kinda the wild cards in the group in that I think a few are supposed to be pre war novas (i.e. made with the standard Aberrant rules but having survived without accumilating much taint) or standard Trinity created novas with a bit more control and focus int heir powers (in other words, they don't toss fireballs at eachother for fun and thereby increase chances of getting taint).

Jake

[malkboy]

Or alternately it could be that the Edenites are the children that the Teragen had. A little less problematic because they are the next step in the evolutionary chain, not a starting oddity. That's just me thou.

[Obsidian Shade]

It's very important to ban Quantum above 5. Just imagine a Nova with Quantum 7, Quantum Bolt 1, the agg dmg and the armor piercing extra. He gets 7 lvls agg dmg + attack successes, ignores two lvls of soak per success and only pays 2 quantum points. Add the mastery extra und he pays only 1 point. That's heavy ::devil

Ups, he must pay 3 points and with mastery 4. But with mastery he gets 14 lvls of agg dmg + attack success x2, ignores 4 lvls of soak per success.

[VictorHFrost KSC]

"It's very important to ban Quantum above 5. Just imagine a Nova with Quantum 7, Quantum Bolt 1, the agg dmg and the armor piercing extra. He gets 7 lvls agg dmg + attack successes, ignores two lvls of soak per success and only pays 2 quantum points. Add the mastery extra und he pays only 1 point. That's heavy

Ups, he must pay 3 points and with mastery 4. But with mastery he gets 14 lvls of agg dmg + attack success x2, ignores 4 lvls of soak per success. "

And the very first time the player uses it inappropriately I'll land on his ass with a squad of high psi legionarres in power armor that get extra uber soak to his damage and half his soak in return. Personal policy so I don't have to do extra explaination at character creation. Hell I've got backup uber npcs for both aberrants and psions that get a little too gun crazy with their powers. I'm fine with fat cracklin power of the gods nearing characters, but they must believe that I'm, gonna make things a challenege. And the reason? I don't have to follow the rules as an st.

Athanagiuld= 25 health levels, 25 soak, level 5 qbolt with burning extra and 7 quantum

^---one of my "Hand O God" npcs

Jake

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Unfortunately nothing soaks agg damage in trinity, infact the closest thing to agg damage is Psychmorphing 5 Catabolysis.

[VictorHFrost KSC]

I'd argue that depending on the effect (a qbolt but probably not claws) agg could be soaked by certain psi powers. It's not so much that nothing soaks it in Trinity as agg damage is something inherent to Aberrant. Note that it does not exist in the rules of either of the other two games. I don't know precisely all the specifics of how agg should work in the other two games, but it is more than a mere oversite that they aren't in any rulebook but Aberrant.

To be honest this is one of the reasons I've always felt that Aberrant works like a standard WOD game shoved into the Aeon timeline. Great idea, poor execution in terms of feel and stability with the other two games. Also, I'm not sure, but I don't think agg is ever said to ignore vehicle scale soak (rather I don't think it's actually covered in the rules and I see no reason for it to ignore vehicle soak). Part of my "contingency plan" does invole VARG use.

Jake

[Obsidian Shade]

Combine this Boltman with Dormancy 5. After he shoots, he can power down und is very hard to detect.

And if you give him (Q 7, QB(mastery) 1, ) the area extra instead of agg dmg, he can shoot 42 lvl + 8 dice of bashing or 28 lvl + 8 dice of lethal dmg into an area of 40 meter radius (and remember the armor piercing!).

If you ever try a crossover, you should restrict Quantum. Or you can go for JLA / Avengers Adventures ::devil

[VictorHFrost KSC]

Already done three crossovers, never been a problem. Then again, I tend to get nasty with players that abuse system. Don't believe in power without consequence. And there's always consequence.

Jake

[Obsidian Shade]

True. I'm thinking the same way. But if I compare a starting nova and psion, than it seems a little bit unbalanced.

[ProfPotts]

1) Novas can hide their quantum by using a quantum-producing source, For example, walking around in a non-biotech power armor. This applies to interesting uses of powers, such Cyberkinesis with the Parasitic extra (allowing one to inhabit the shell of a nuclear-powered robot).

The effectiveness of that really depends on a presumption that when they talk about 'Taint' in Trinity they really mean 'Quantum' - & I don't think they do when it comes to detecting Taint via Attunement (which is what Psions can detect via Attunement when Abbie-hunting).

Any device which produced the same energies that Psions detected as being 'aberrant' energies - & therefore 'masked' the aberrant using such a device - would be as vilified, illegal, & hunted as the aberrant itself. Remember all the stuff about destroying aberrant devices - even the ones that did nothing but good?

If the reference to a 'quantum-producing source' means standard superquantum energies, then the implication is that Psions constantly detect things like normal fires or light via Attunement (making the talent useless). If it means stuff like cyclotrons & nuclear reactors, then it still doesn't seem right - a nuclear reactor doesn't register as 'Tainted' to a Psion, does it ::confused ?

In Trinity terms, any use of an aberrant (AKA Nova) power results in detectable Taint of some variety. Just being an un-Dormed Nova means you give off detectable Taint. The only way to conceal this is to be Dormed (the references in Trinity to aberrants who are able to change their appearances to look human, & bevome undetectable) - & even then I'd allow a Psion actively scanning for Taint a roll with the Dormancy Difficulty penalty figured in.

Not being in Attunement range works, naturally - but doesn't make for an interesting game if the other PCs are Psions...

An aberrant who can inflict aggravated damage is only a worry in Trinity because baselines can't heal aggravated damage - ever. Probably the source of all those references to 'Tainted' wounds that the Rex's can't fix. In a general combat, it's a pretty moot point though - if an aberrant with any sort of focus on combat hits a 'normal' human with an attack, then that human is pretty much dead. VARGs & vehicles help, because damage & armour adds cancel, but in non-vehicle combat you're just suppossed to not be hit by the aberrant.

There's a reason that Psions are meant to go around in teams when tracking down lone aberrants - generally speaking, a team of Psions is on par with a single aberrant (power-wise). If you allow one guy in your group to be an aberrant, then he's gonna' have as much raw power as the rest of the team combined. That may or may not be an issue, depending on the type of game you're playing.

If the whole group are aberrants, then hey! - go for it!

Obvious tip for Psions combating Novas - remember that Psi effects, unlike Nova powers, can be combined with teamwork efforts. A five-man squad of Psychokinetics facing a standard 30 NP combat-Nova (who's gonna' have at least about 30 or so Soak) can co-ordinate, for example, a Pyrokinetic attack & still blast the guy effectively, despite his huge Soak.

Obvious tip #2 - 'heavy weapons' in Trinity aren't actually very heavy - with a mere Might pool of 6 you can use one in each hand. If that 5-man squad uses ten heavy weapons each turn, then even the 'puny human' damage can add up.

Obvious tip #3 - Psi powers aren't the Psion's only advantage - bio-tech is also one of the 'perks' of being a Psion, ignore it at your peril. That extra die of damage on bio-tech weapons is nice, the extra +2 Accuracy is an absolute life-saver. Even aberrants have weak spots - don't be afraid to aim for his eyes!

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Abso-fragging-lutely damnit!

Thanks to vehicles, my players wiped out 4 20-30 point novas in a few rounds and only scored minor injurries amoungst the party (their npc allies on the otherhand...). Don't think I'll let them do that again any time soon, they'll lose respect for abbies, the same way we lost respect for werewolves in vampire when we were given silver weapons!

[Obsidian Shade]

What about a Nova / Aberrant with Density Decrease? Some kind of living flame. I only own the Trinity Corebook and haven't played it yet. Would this take out all this advantages from weapons and vehicles?

[ProfPotts]

Yep - leaving him only vulnerable to psychic attack. Now, if only we could find some guys with psychic powers... ::sly ::wink

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Yep - leaving him only vulnerable to psychic attack

...And fire retardant chemicals ::biggrin

[Obsidian Shade]

Hey, Psychic Shield is one of the cheapest heavy rocking power a nova can get ::cool

[ProfPotts]

Hence the Psion use of teamwork to overcome aberrant defences - superiority via raw dice pool! ::sly ::tongue

[Sprocket]

Here's one thing you folks might consider. If you're trying to run an Aberrant campaign in the Trinity setting after the return of the Upeo, more than a few of the normal, everyday citizens of human space will have heard or read about the Eden novas. Provided that your players' characters erupt with little or no Taint (in Aberrant terms) and can avoid coming into conflict with human and/or psion forces, they might have a shot at gaining some sort of acceptance from Terran society. It'll be a long shot, to be sure, but it has to be better than nothing, right? Right? ::unsure

OTOH, if no amount of friendliness and good deeds on the part of the player characters will prove enough to overcome the prejudice and distrust inspired by the Colony and Divis Mal (among others), then you've got the makings of a Great Escape-style campaign ready-made for you. This would be a great opportunity to dust off all those old Cold War-era spy thriller plots where the protagonists have to escape from inside the old Soviet Union with little or no help. Only in this case, instead of escaping from "Mother Russia" you've got to escape from the entire freakin' Solar System... ::devilangel

[Ayre el KaBeer]

more than a few of the normal, everyday citizens of human space will have heard or read about the Eden novas.

Oh no they don't!

Even rumours about a large colony of aberrants will be enough to cause a panic and lead to politicians demanding an investigation of such rumours. They wouldn't be told of them being benevolent, no/low-taint, or anything at all to put aberrants in a better light. Project re-write made damned sure humanity will never trust novas again.

If one of these investigations turns up with the truth about eden (never going to happen) and that info is released to the public (ditto), there will be a call to destroy the potential threat to earth, despite the futillity of the attempt.

[Sprocket]

::blink Sheesh! Could you be a little less rabid, Ayre? ::biggrin

While I'm sure that there were some folks in the Trinity setting who reacted to the news about the Edenites in the reactionary, foaming-mouth manner you described (especially in places like the FSA), that isn't necessarily the rule for most well-informed citizens of human space.

Don't believe me? Then grab a copy of Stellar Frontiers (the Upeo wa Macho/Extrasolar Space sourcebook) and turn to page 42. Walkabout Press (a subsidiary of Genman) put out a book called Eden Considered in 2121- of which the sidebar on page 42 is an excerpt. The Genman journalists apparently produced a fair and balanced piece on Eden and its residents, which included interviews with several of the neutral/baseline Edenites. Given that Genman is a business, you can bet that they weren't doing this simply for curiousity's sake- Genman saw a hot new topic to write about and make some serious money from.

Now, turn to page 47, where you'll find Apollo Milliken's "Open Letter To Humankind". That holorecording was played in front of the whole assembly of the United Nations, not just the Security Council.

So there you have it, Ayre. The material I mentioned did make it into the global press and news media, escaping the censors. Unless a given citizen of human space has not had access to the OpNet or even a good bookstore, he or she will have heard the facts about the Edenites. Besides, the historical curtain that is Project: Rewrite has developed more and more holes in it over time. There's simply no way that the Aeon Trinity will be able to keep the data on the positive aspects of the Aberrant Era suppressed forever, you know. There's simply too many other groups/nations/etc. who both have that information and are willing to use it to their advantage- and put Aeon's collective face in the mud in the process.

[VictorHFrost KSC]

"Project re-write made damned sure humanity will never trust novas again."

*Slaps forehead* Project rewrite is mentioned a grand total of 3 times in all the Trinity supplements to date. It was meant to lessen Aeon's involvement in the Aberrant war, not change all of history. It might have erased the sterilizations, or the uses of Project Proteus, but it didn't change the story as drastiacally as people seem to give it credit for. Reread the sections in the Trinity mainbook about Aberrants before the war, and how much they helped humanity, read the stuff that talks about how some of them DID fight on our side. The public bias grew out of real events, things like the Null Manifesto and Divis Mal's final word to humanity. It grew out of the attacks on Luna and the OMEN satelites. A few bad seeds screwed the whole batch beyond repair. They didn't make Novas out to be worse than they are, they let human nature do it for them.

Jake

[Sprocket]

::blink My, my. So the dreadful state of human/nova relations circa 2121 is beyond repair? With that kind of attitude prevalent among the movers and shakers of human space, one can easily understand the reluctance of the non-Tainted novas of that time to even establish formal relations with Earth, much less help them fight against the hordes of the Colony! One might almost think that some of the movers and shakers of human space were deliberately playing into the Colony's tentacles... ::devil

[VictorHFrost KSC]

I do seem to recall an upper level emplyee of Trinity being a spy yeah...

Jake

[Sprocket]

::blink The Aeon Trinity's been infiltrated? I knew that the Colony had a deep-cover agent in the upper levels of the U.N. hierarchy (one Elizabeth Gaynor- see the Trinity Player's Guide for the sordid details), but you'd think that Mercer's operation would be a tougher nut to crack infiltration-wise. That does make for one heck of an interesting story hook, though... ::devilangel

[Heritage]

I think Project: Re-Write is a tool that can be used to justify whatever level of ignorance or understanding you want in your individual campaign. If you want people to be rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth Abbie haters, you can say that Re-Write was tremendously effective in swaying public opinion. If you want there to be a greater chance of understanding, you can say Re-Write had a milder effect.

I think what it really comes down to is what role do you want Aeon to play in your game; they can be sinsiter manipulators, misguided idealists or good people doing what they feel they have to in order to make the universe a safer place. And if you add the element of them being manipulated by outside forces (Aberrants, the Doyen, the FSA) from within, then they can be all of the above.

[Heritage]

The Aeon Trinity's been infiltrated? I knew that the Colony had a deep-cover agent in the upper levels of the U.N. hierarchy (one Elizabeth Gaynor- see the Trinity Player's Guide for the sordid details), but you'd think that Mercer's operation would be a tougher nut to crack infiltration-wise. That does make for one heck of an interesting story hook, though...

If it was a baseline/neutral working for the Colony, it might be easier to do, though telepathy would definitly make it harder. It might be cool to introduce some of the Directive's mental exercises from Aberrant as a way for the spy to remain undetected; until, of course, the PCs figure it out or it's time for a major plot twist. And if the npc spy was a friend of the players? Hoo boy!

[ProfPotts]

... one can easily understand the reluctance of the non-Tainted novas of that time...

What 'non-Tainted' Novas? The Edenites? The Eden Novas have Taint - they just have less than the 'mad' aberrants.

In Trinity terms a non-Tainted Nova / aberrant is impossible - because aberrants / Novas lack any Psi at all, & lacking any Psi means you're Tainted.

Just because the Edenites aren't as overtly nasty as the Colony, it doesn't mean they're any less of a threat to humanity in the long run. That's a lesson from history for most human residents of the Trinity universe - many of the 'nice guy' Novas turned into rampaging evil bastards during the Aberrant war. The best of the best, Pax himself, is considered a 'prime threat' to the people of the Trinity era - if he can 'turn to the dark side', then any of them can. They even have scientific evidence (research into Taint) which pretty much tells them that Novas becoming worse & worse over time as their powers grow & expand is an inevitability.

The closest thing you'll get to a 'non-Tainted Nova' in Trinity is a Stalwart.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

::biggrin ::biggrin ::biggrin

[Sprocket]

Re: Elizabeth Gaynor-

According to the information in the Trinity Player's Guide, Ms. Gaynor is indeed a baseline/neutral human. It just that her reasons for serving the Colony were never revealed, providing Trinity Storytellers some much-needed maneuvering room. ::cool

Re: Non-Tainted Novas-

That may be true for many of the first-generation novas, but don't automatically assume the same for the latter generations. Provided that their parents weren't excessively-Tainted to begin with (like the Harvesters, say), second-generation novas and their offspring are a great deal more resistant to Taint than their forebears. As most of the Eden novas are first-generation, it's not surprising that they have some Taint, but they seem to have only the bare minimum that results from having high Quantum scores.

Hate to burst your collective bubble on this matter, but being doomed to lose oneself to Taint is not an inescapable consequence of eruption. ::devilangel

[Heritage]

Hate to burst your collective bubble on this matter, but being doomed to lose oneself to Taint is not an inescapable consequence of eruption.

But I think it is the public perception in the Trinity era, especially after the Aberrants returned 'more monstrous than before'. Another thing to remember is low-taint Abbies are not the ones most likely to be studied; high-taint Abbies are more easily traceable, and therefore the ones mostly to be found, killed and dissected, leading scientists to say, "My god, they're all hideous mutant freaks!"

Subtler Abbies don't get caught ::devil

[Heritage]

Normal humans basically have a Psi of zero (they have no control over subquantum energies, but they still conduct them), while all Abbies/novas have like at least a Psi of -1, since Psi and Quantum/Taint are polar opposites. In TPG, it says something to the effect that Abbies register as a void to the Attuned.

The question is, does a dormed-down Abbie have a negative Psi, or a Psi of zero? Does Dormancy allow subquantum energies to flow through them again?

[Sprocket]

Re: "subtle" novas/aberrants-

There's also the fact that most sane novas don't live within Sol system or any of the systems colonized by Earth (except for the surviving Nihonjin novas, and they're kind of wimpy by nova standards). Check out The Story So Far in the paperback version of the Trinity Core book or on the White Wolf site to see what most of the "nice-guy novas" have been having to deal with in the Trinity Era. ::wink

The current xenophobia espoused by the common citizens of Trinity-era Earth must be a continuing source of delight and comfort to the Colony. It's drawing the noose ever-so slowly around the collective neck of human/psion civilization, and the only people who could pose anything more than a passing threat to it are relegated to the same "horrible monster" category by the Earthlings as itself and it's flunkies. Pretty darn sweet setup, you have to admit... ::devil

Re: Dormancy-

I'm not sure what the effective Psi Trait of a Dorm'ed-down nova would be, Heritage. There's certainly a favorable argument for giving that nova an effective Psi of 1 for the duration of his or her period of Dormancy- long periods of Dormancy happen to be one of the ways a nova can reduce his or her temporary Taint. ::smile

[ProfPotts]

Normal humans basically have a Psi of zero (they have no control over subquantum energies, but they still conduct them), while all Abbies/novas have like at least a Psi of -1...

Normal humans (Psi-neutrals) have a Psi of 1 - all living things do, apart from aberrants / Novas, which have a Psi of zero. You can't, technically, have a negative Psi - although that may well be what Quantum / Taint is, in some respects (but that's really just speculation).

Anyone with a Psi of zero is considered an aberrant (se the 'Psi Sink' merit in the TPG).

Hate to burst your collective bubble on this matter, but being doomed to lose oneself to Taint is not an inescapable consequence of eruption.

I'm pretty sure that no-one said it was. It is a major theme of the games though, & has mechanics to support it. Plus, all things being equal, it is, mechanically, inevitable - since you can gain Taint, but not loose it (barring Chrysalis - which is just as bad). Still, you're right, you can hit Quantum 10 & still only have 6 Taint, so being 'lost to Taint' isn't inevitable within the scope of most games, no. No bubbles burst at all!

Of course - that slim chance that one Nova in particular may be able to resist the fall into Tainted madness isn't much of a comfort to those who could be wiped out by a wave of his hand if he did. After all - some of the most trusted Nova 'heroes' fell to Taint. It's hard to go on faith when you've so many examples that the opposite is true.

As for later generation Novas - that's a whole big messed-up area in the continuity, with no real clear explanations of what's official & what isn't, or even of what 'generation' means in this case. Even so, any & all Novas will be Tainted (in Trinity terms you understand) just due to their lack of Psi. You can't have both Psi & Quantum, & if you don't have Psi you register as Tainted. You'll also not be likely to meet too many people who're willing to trust that you're not a baby-eating freak - it's just not a risk many people would voluntarily take.