opnet [OpNet] Justice for Novas

[Guest]

Hello all. In a reply to one of the other topics posted, I touched on a subject I felt would be worth discussing seperately. I will also admit to doing this in an attmept to keep the thread that Adept started as on topic as possible. I fear that I may have helped to take the focus away from what was important in that discussion, but I digress.

The question is this: can novas hope or expect to find justice at the ahnds of the law as it currently stands? I am admittedly more interested in talking about violence between novas and baselines and how that is treated, but any kind of case is worth discussion.

I have a great deal to say ont his subject but I will keep it brief for now. I have a rather pressing appointment at a Michaelite weapon stockpile. From my observations, it has become an unspoken law that it is all right for novas to be the victims of violence. If that violence is commited by another nova, it is given a great show of mourning and forgotten unless it can be milked for a profit by baseline corporations. If a baseline commits violence against a nova, it is mentioned int eh news as quietly as possible, a subtle thumbs-up given to the perpetrator(s), and swept under the rug. Many of the baselines who do this become heroes to others, such as the raving Father Ryan who has spoken with such mindless hate on other topics.

That is my initial arguement. I eagerly await your replies. Stay safe friends.

Hydra

[Stheno]

Define "Justice".

[Jager]

What kind of 'shake' we get from the law often depends on the time, place, and individuals involved. Sometimes, people bend over backwards to keep us happy. Sometimes, they treat us worse than dogs. If you are looking for equal treatment under the law, join the rest of humanity.

As for the murder of the Tornado, it was one of 38 unsolved murders in Houston that year. No solid leads, nothing.

You also don't hear alot about a suspected serial killer haunting New England. The FBI suspect a nova, but are concerned about the publicity backlash (along with unwelcome Utopian involvement), so it hasn't hit the press yet.

Raw deals hit both sides of the streets. Yeah, some people will hate you because your a nova. Some others will worship you, give you money and a place to stay, and even help you bury the bodies. Go figure.

[Guest]

Jager's reply hits close to the nature of my question, in reply to yours Stheno. The question I am asking is if a nova embroiled in a legal case, or the victim of a crime, can expect an outcome that is just as well as legal.

For instance, in the mid-twentieth century an incident occured in the South, the beating death of a young black boy. This boy was from the north (Chicago, I think) and was visiting family in the south. I beleive this may have been Missippippi, but I cannot remember the details and sadly lack time to look them up at the moment. Perhaps I will post them later. In any event, this boy spoke to a white woman as she was leaving a store. Some men who overheard this took offense, followed the boy and later murdered him. A trial was convened and evidence presented that made it abundently clear that the two men had commited this crime. However, the jury found them not guilty due to the social conditions of the time and place. This outcome is perfectly acceptable legally, but it is not just, it is not right.

It is this kind of thing I am speaking of. I am not referring to strictly baselines committing crimes against novas, but also the other way around. Is it possible in a baseline court of law for a just solution to be reached? As Jager states, the fact that someone involved is a nova will swerve the jury one way or the other. Or will it? These are essentially the questions I am asking. I would also wonder about whether law enforcement officials can or will pursue investigations where novas are involved, as Jager has also mentioned. I hope this helps to clear up what I am talking about.

Jager, your post in interesting as always. Thank you. If you have a moment, would you mind getting me the information about the serial killer you mentioned? E-mail in to me, or please let me know where I can find it for myself. Though it may seema t odds with my affiliation, I do not approve of this beahvior. Perhaps I can help stop it. I've rattled on too long again. My apologies. Take care friends.

Hydra

[Jager]

Hydra, check the profile and I'll respond as soon as I'm able. As for the serial killer, he or she is one seriously bad mf. Not for the squeamish.

[Weave]

"Justice" for Novas huh? Honey, from where I'm sittin' novas have it pretty sweet, try bein' homeless, pennyless, and a woman on the streets of any American, or worse yet, Arabic city. You'll see, real fast, just how good novas got it. You want a "just" society? All laws have to apply equally to everyone, no favoritism. "Justice" should not be bought, but it is. There ain't never been justice in this world and their ain't never gonna be. Deal.

[Jager]

I guess your view of justice can depend on were you started out. If you never expected a just and lawful society when you were a baseline, you might be more willing to accept the inequalities once you became a nova.

I believe that everyone should be accountable under the law and that justice should be even-handed. I also know that isn't always the case. I feel this way because it is how I was raised. I know that injustices (in my eyes) happen and I stay busy 'correcting' some of those mistakes in my free time.

Yes, I acknowledge that I break laws often and repeatedly. If I lived in a perfect world, that wouldn't be necessary. I can certainly live with the dicodamy of the lawless enforcing the law on occasion.

I'm no vigilante, but its been forever since I used my real name, passed through customs, or even used a legally purchased opnet hook-up. Let's not even go into the fact that people and corporations hire me to break the law (illegal survelliance, theft, burglery, computer fraud, ect.)in the first place.

I imagine if they catch me, they will bury me under Baharain. Them's the breaks.

[Tuesday Childe]

I think you're too hard on yourself, Jager. The purpose of law is to make situations and circumstances fair for everyone 'under the law'. We need not discuss how many exploit or manipulate the law to their own ends. This is assumed and has happened before. It will happen again.

You, on the other hand, are not concerned with law or fairness. Rather, you strive for justice and operate outside the law. As an outlaw, you administer a brand of justice based on the assessments that you have made and the information you have gathered.

Are you a vigilante? Technically, no, but only because you do not enforce laws like a one man mission impossible force (if anyone remembers that long ago). You seek justice. Someone once used the forced internment of asian americans during WWII as an example of injustice under the law. The supreme courts of the land even uphold the legality of the action. Nonetheless, 35 years later, the govenment of the land apologized to the survivors and their families for the event offered some recompense. What they had done was legal under the law, even fair under the law but it was not just. Thus, 35 years later, the apology and the recompense.

You operate in the gray area where angels fear to tread. Many will leave you to tread these unfamiliar lands on your own knowing the only guides they have is your own moral compass and justice. This area is not for everyone. Yet you seem to prosper here and justice is done.

I believe you are an oulaw, Jager. I believe only technicality prevents you from being labeled, appropriately, as a vigilante. I also believe you serve justice.

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Tuesday Childe

having far to go...

[Guest]

I believe that we can expect what any mnority group in the spotlight can expect; wildly differing levels of compassion and discrimination. Nothing more.

[Avenger]

I don't claim to believe a goddamned thing. I've got some good ideas, ones that work for me, and that's about it. If they work for you or can help you formulate your own idea, then that's what I'm in this for.

Ordinarily, you understand, I'd never bother about on this board for any reason other than "business". But I felt this was an issue that deserved addressing.

Besides, Hydra, I respect you.

I suppose I'll draw the inevitable "novas should govern novas" backlash. I am a Terat, after all, and I hold true that only a governing body of fellow novas can hope to lay down (or for that matter, enforce) jurisdiction for other novas. Sure, if the Directive or Interpol ever caught up to me they could try and bust me for what I've done (let's not go into what exactly that is), but first, they'd have to catch me, which they quite plainly couldn't. If they confronted me, they'd have to hope I'd decide not to kill them (I wouldn't). Then they'd have to restrain me, which again they would be hard-pressed to manage. And even if they restrained me, they'd have to somehow manage to not like me so damn much that they want to let me go.

What's that, you say? Oh, yeah. That. Well my magnanimous personal charm doesn't translate digitally. Now bugger off.

The point I'm trying to make is that even with the rather basic bag of tricks I've got, any law enforcement agency, even several working in tandem, would find it very difficult to enforce any baseline law on me. I think that the State of Maryland vs. Calliope case of 2007 is a perfect example of this. Even when brought to trial, they couldn't nail her down. Nobody wanted to.

Gargoyle was correct. As novas are a minority, we can expect to see everything from blatant sycophantry to outright hostility, depending on country, circumstance, perceived crime -- even the individual. This was never the case with the rampant discrimination that blacks faced before, during and after the Emancipation Proclimation, and still do in some parts of America and notably huge portions of the rest of the world (like South-fucking-Africa). Or that women have faced in countries all over the world since time immemorial.

So why then do I condone seperatism between nova and human, but not woman and man, black and white, Jew and Palestinian, Catholic and Protestant? Why not seperate laws for every minority, ever social grouping, every clique, every individual?

For the same reason that I advocate seperate guidelines, laws and social boundaries for terrans as opposed to martians. As far as I'm concerned, baseline humanity would do well to quit this idiocy concerning discrimination and bias and work out a worldwide legal system that works well for everyone, perhaps leaving the finer details up to individual jurisdiction. If such an idea was proposed, I'd show up to help mediate and iron out the details myself, and I'd bring help. I don't hate baseline humanity. I sincerely want to see this world work well for everyone. But I'm simply not a part of baseline humanity, and I will not be governed my creatures that cannot know what it is to be a member of The One Race. My IQ spikes off every established scale -- what baseline has the right to tell me what's correct and incorrect behavior?

We as novas need a system for ourselves. Baselines need to stay the fuck out. Not because I like to do things that baselines perceive as 'unlawful', but because only someone who has a hope of understanding me has the right to assess my actions.

Until there is such a system, you'll have to find your own 'justice'.

That's exactly what I'm doing with Chiraben. Baseline law enforcement is in no position to apprehend or punish the perpetrator, and nova law enforcement (the smiling fascists of T2M) is sitting on their thumbs for reasons that are becoming all too clear. So I'll make my own goddamned justice.

--Avenger

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Don't try to run, you son of a bitch. You'll just die tired.

avengingcrusader@hotmail.com

[Father Ryan]

You putrid bags of infernal puss.

Why is it that every time I hear one of you over powered servents of evil rant on about your "one race" or your "rights" that you end up sounding like Nazis?

There may be a very simple answer.

How can you be so are blind to your own evil?

You collective ego's shall be your downfalls. Half of you say that you human's acting as any would when given powers. While the other half claim to have no connection to humanity what so ever.

You are both partly right.

You are inhabiting the bodies of people who's souls have been somehow lost or forcibly removed. You may seem to have memories of a life before Satan invested you with his seed, but they are false as with all his gifts.

Justice for Novas? There is only one justice, Gods justice. Through his will all of you plague ridden infernal caricatures shall be purged.

There is room on this world for only the chosen of God.

Humanity.

This isn’t about Christian, Muslim, Buddhism. Nor is it about black, white, red or yellow skin.

It is quiet simply an infernal invasion that must be put down.

Good versus evil.

You are all evil.

[Weave]

Prove it.

[Jager]

Avenger,

The downside of individual 'justice', is that it often isn't any more impartial than the established legal systems. Even though I don't do that kind of work and people know it, three times in the past year I have been approached to render 'justice' upon certain novas. Yep, some baseline wanted me to kill some nova who had killed someone close to them. Can't say I wasn't tempted, but I don't do that anymore. Hell, I gathered enough evidence to know that the targets were guilty as sin. These novas were tough enough to evade normal law enforcement efforts. Should I kill them and avenge the dead? What about a nova who wants me to avenge them because their tormentor is beyond their ability to effect? Do I avenge other novas?

As novas, we run the gambit of seeing baselines life and liberty to be just as important as a novas to seeing baseline humanity as some sort of dangerous infestation. The argument that just because a law can't be enforced against a certain individual renders that law invalid against them doesn't work for me. After all, just because a certain nova kills another nova and you can't bring that nova to justice does validate the murder, does it?

Better yet, for the nova supremists in the audience: Some baseline kills a nova. In the process of 'rendering judgement' on that baseline, he/she erupts and becomes a nova. What do you do? Do you still kill them? That would be a nova killing another nova. Do you wipe the slate clean because they are now of the One Race? They are still a murderer. Does the life of that dead nova now have less relivence?

For the time being, novas don't have any laws created by novas-for novas to govern our activities. What should we do? If we simply toss out baseline law, we become governed by the 'Rule of Might'. A while back, some yahoo advocated this, but I pointed out to him that he might be the first one to be 'dealt' with if this became the case. We would slaughter each other, which would make Ryan very happy.

Ryan, happy birthday. Glad to see your still keeping the fires of race hatred and ignorance burning. Every time you rant against us, I reminded myself that love conquers evil and that someday soon, you will see that. It is the basis of faith.

[Father Ryan]

Love conquers evil?

This isn't a disney movie.

This is war.

[Stheno]

A priest who does not believe that "amor vincit omnia".

How novel.

[Guest]

They aren't that rare from what I have heard. Back on topic and to answer Hydra's question I do believe that Novas can expect justice at the hands of the governments. I mean of course if we obey the laws etc.

I pay taxes, go to work and drive under the speed limit. (except when I am working and I am allowed to do that ) In return the government I voted for protects and works for me. Its that simple. Novas are the most potentially powerful special interest group to emerge in the history of politics. If we need to we can change what we don't like peacefully, we don't need to rant endlessly and blow up buildings to do it.

It's kinda scarey to see so many Novas claim not to be human. I am as human as the next guy, and so are 99 per cent of Novas. I am sorry to say this to folks like Avenger and Ashnod but don't you see it? What special rules do you think you need and why should you be so different?

Please do not take this as an invitation to blow up my house, I really don't want to get you guys angry but I am curious to know what you are thinking.

[Ashnod]

We aren't saying we need special rules. Special rules would mean clauses inside already established baseline doctrine that would apply to Novas in specific.

What we need, dear, is separation of the species. Once separated, we can determine how the two species can interact with rules and norms.

Essentially, we need to establish our own rules, have our own government to enforce them, and negotiate with baseline government.

If you can't understand why I feel this is necessary, both for the benefit of Nova and the benefit of baseline, then I'm sorry too.

[This message has been edited by Ashnod (edited 08-30-2001).]

[Guest]

How exactly do you propose to separate the "species?" Do you want us to leave the planet? Kick the baselines off the planet? How about start our own country?

You have mentioned this separation idea before but you have yet to explain just what you mean. Just so you know I'm NOT a terat and up until the funeral of Slider, I was an active member of T2M. Still I have a brain of my own and want to hear you out.

So can you explain how you plan on achieving this separation?

[Ashnod]

Matrix,

Since you asked...honestly, I don't know. I'm doing the only thing I can at this point, being an educator and spokeswoman. It is my hope that one day, sooner than later, a majority of us will come to agreement on this. Contrary to what Utopia would have us think, the majority of Novas DON'T believe themselves to be the equals of baselines. Nor, as many of my brethren would hope, do they believe they are a separate nation. Most Novas, you see, aren't certain. They are looking at both sides of it and trying to weigh which is correct.

The other answer I will give you is that we don't have to be geographically separate to be separate. I merely(!) want us to unite as a people and force the baseline nations to regard us as a separate nation, so we can began establishing how our mutual existences are going to effect the world. I'm sorry, but I only foresee worse consequences if things are allowed to continue as they are. Novas will eventually, as a whole, resent the position they are currently in within the baseline social and legal structure. Baselines will eventually resent Nova competition within their structure as well. This is going to escalate as our numbers grow.

[Gerald Haney]

why does Ashnod want us seperate? why? what would i do? DeVryes has to send me on jobs, yes. i have to have a job. i have to be able to travel and see people and do things. what would i do? what? does Ashnod not want me to eat? mommy and daddy said have to earn money, have to bring home the bacon, it doesnt grow on trees, no it doesnt, NO IT DOESNT. HAVE TO HAVE MONEY. HAVE TO. WHY? WHY? WHY?

i am sorry, i will be good now. i will. you talk about justice? that is good. lawyers gave me justice. i didnt have to go to jail after mommy and daddy. no. Utopia said it wasnt my fault. no. daddy was bad. judge said good bye little man, good bye, go on be free. free from pain and hurt and pain and hurt. Utopia asked me to help them, but quiet. hush hush, i said no. the paper said they were bad. mommys paper said bad things about them. yes. so i work for DeVryes. daddy said they were bad asses. yes. i got justice. yes. i am free and i work and i bring home the bacon.

[Avenger]

For more insight on how I feel on this subject, look into the Terat post on this board.

Trauma --

I wouldn't blow up your house, and I wouldn't blow up the house of your baseline family, either. The Project has worked very hard to put a vicious smear on all Teragen activities, even going so far as to make up

incidents entirely to make us look bad. We are not a group of terrorists, no more than the Mexican Zapatistas or Guevara's Guerilla army. We are revolutionaries. Sometimes, people die in a revolution. But we don't butcher civvies because we feel like it, and we don't wreak havoc for havoc's sake.

You seem to have bought the PU propaganda, and for that I am saddened. "We're all human! It's a small world after all!" Bullshit. I'm sorry. If you truly believe everything you read, that I invite you to continue:

AVENGER IS YOUR SAVIOR. LISTEN TO HIM AND DO EVERYTHING HE SAYS. HIS WORD IS AS THE WORD OF GOD HIMSELF.

Better yet, read the Null Manifesto. Honestly, though, would it make you feel better if I added in scientific jargon from so-called "experts"? Maybe a panel of baselines to agree with me? A commercial? The Incandescant Smile himself to show up and endorse? Don't believe everything you read, Trauma. More appropriately, read it all. Then make your own decision. I don't mean to sound derisive towards you, I really don't. But please don't make a judgement before you have more of the facts. We aren't human anymore. Show me the human who can tear wholes in reality with which he can tavel through, and maybe I'll have some new evidence to incorporate into my world-view. Until then, I advise you to start reading.

Matrix --

To put it simply, we need an enforcment agency for novas, by novas that enforces laws made for novas, by novas. Novas don't have to have our own nation or even our own planet. We just need seperate jurisdiction. This isn't hard. There are seperate rules for foreign diplomats who are visiting foreign countries than there are for the civilians. Is it really fair to bust a nova breaking Mach 8 when the nova in question has total control over themselves and will not conceivably cause any damage to anyone? Nova police, nova enforcement, nova jail, nova sovereign state, nova law. That's what I see. Until then, the contents may need to jumble a bit before they settle.

--Avenger

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"Don't try to run, you son of a bitch. You'll just die tired."

avengingcrusader@hotmail.com

[Guest]

Avenger,

You're the saviour? Wait till I tell the guys at work. I don't tend to listen to newspaper philosophy, no matter who is doing the talking. (even DM himself) Lets face it anything with the word Manifesto on it (null of otherwise) that comes into my house goes straight in the bin, along with my letters from Ed.

I mean, you tell me we are a seperate species and need our own rules. I agree, there are a few exceptions and loop holes that need clearing up. I don't think we need to create completely different sets of rules, I mean thats just silly, 99% of the rules for baselines go for Novas too. (Frankly I think you are reaching in that flying Nova example) I still say Geryon should be locked up for what he did in Tampa. You'd put a man in prison for being brutal to an animal, how much further should you go if he rips the head off a sentient being?

Ashnod,

Most of what I said above goes for you too. Next, don't you think that a Nova nation is a bit far fetched? I think the Terragen in general seem to want to rip out the old power structure without putting anything back in it's place. This is just the way it seems to me. I am open to being persuaded.

[Avenger]

Trauma --

I never said I was a savior. Time will tell. I've been called a saint. I've also been called a devil.

Althouth that "bin" comment is fairly depressing. You seem to not respond to the appeal to emotion, so I'll try the appeal to logic.

I don't mean to be derisive, again, but you don't exactly strike me as a spiking several knots off the IQ-scale type. Nothing wrong with that. Einstein was a 'mere' baseline, after all. But nonetheless, unless you are an incredibly exception and I have dangerously misjudged you, I'd like to point out that there are people I call friend who are more brilliant than the collected sum of baseline science. I know a man who can see into the future. They are Terats. Think about that logically.

--Avenger

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"Don't try to run, you son of a bitch. You'll just die tired."

avengingcrusader@hotmail.com

[Guest]

"I never said I was a savior."

Uh, yeah you did. About 2 posts up, in capitals no less

Avenger, I don't find your arguements terribly convincing. I would have thought that someone with an IQ as high as you claim your allies do would have noticed by now that most people disagree with you.

I just don't see the key points of your arguement as valid. I hear time and again that Novas are not human, and thats a load of bull for a start, we are as human as the next guy. I hear that we need special rules, we don't, we need a few exceptions, that is all. I hear we need a police force: your hyper intelligent friends can build the technology to allow anyone to capture and contain a Nova.

It all seems to come down to is fear. Many Novas seem to fear humanity as a whole and as a concept. Humans fear us aswell. We need to heal that rift with trust and openness, not react to it like an animal would. You claim we are different and better but we aren't acting any different than the humans, we just justify it better.

You are right, I may not be the brightest penny in the register but I like to think I can make a half decent arguement. Oh man I need coffee, these all nighters are hell.

Avenger, I don't suppose you know where Leviathan buys his coffee do you? I'd kill for a caffine buzz right now. (Well, injure maybe ) I've got a full weekend of work ahead so I'll see you all on Monday. I look forward to hearing your views.

[Jager]

Trauma, usually we see eye to eye on most things, but for different reasons. There is one thing that I would like to point out to you though:

The mayor of Tampa enacted a law that made it illegal (a felony) for a nova to enter, reside in, or even pass through the Tampa area. When a Terat showed up to non-violently portest this racist law, PU showed up and dragged Sluice off to Bahrain. Why? Where was Sluices court date or appeal? He didn't get any of that. Instead, he got life imprisonment without hope for parole. For trespassing!

Where is the justice in that? Were were his equal rights under the UN accords?

I don't condone what Geryon did, but I didn't lift a finger to save the mayor's life, either. Yeah, I saw it coming and I wasn't the only one. There comes a time when you have to accept that a perfectly (?) sane individual is going to get up on the train tracks because they don't believe a train will be coming along. When the train comes along and crushes them, you have to take it as a life lesson.

Novas should respect the rights and laws of baselines in their daily lives. I think that is the right thing to do. That implies that baselines will do the same for us. When they don't, and they don't alot, they are getting up on those tracks because the reality is that one nova is much more powerful than multiple baselines. In the past, when a minority group has been persecuted, there hasn't been much recourse for them. This is no longer the case. If baselines refuse to work toward total equality for all sentients, they may soon discover how much things have truly changed. In the scope of true power, they are becoming the minority and the shoe will be on the other foot.

This isn't a threat. It is a plea for humanity to stand up for the ideals they espouse before the hypocracy bites them in the ass.

[Hugin]

In regards to the Sluice incident. Utopia has in their employ several Nova's with capabilities that allow them to forsee future troubles, either through actually visualizing future events or simply through sensing oncoming chaos.

Now, they reacted quite quickly to Sluice's arrival in Tampa. Not too quickly mind you, I am not trying to open that can of worms, but quickly enough. However, with the Mayor's declaration I have to wonder why Utopia did not forsee Geryon's arrival and subsequent attack. Could it be that perhaps Geryon's actions served a greater purpose in Utopia's eyes? Just something to think about.

[Guest]

Justice.

Is a hard thing to define. And can sometimes involve a lot of death when things escalate. Baseline A kicks Nova B. Nova B blasts baseline A into a coma. Baseline C rounds up his buddies and a bazooka and kills Nova B for putting his brother into a coma. Nova D systematically visits baseline C and all his friends' houses and removes their gizzards and giblets via psychic surgery in the middle of the night, killing them all. Government Agency E sanctions extreme prejudice in all attempts to take Nova D down. Nova D is found and killed 'resisting arrest'.

3 days later, baseline A wakes up, and is really sorry he kicked Nova B in his drunken haze.

When does Justice turn into overkill? When is Justice actually vengeance? And when is Vengeance actually Justice?

In a million years of sociological evolution the human race has not actually been able to answer all 3 of these questions.

So don't expect Novas to figure it out after only 10 years of existenc

[Guest]

What the Mayor of Tampa did was illegal but to say he got a fair reward is insane. The man should have gone to prison, not got his head twisted off! Geryon should also be in prison for murder.

Sluice I'll grant you was a mistake, perhaps a gross overreaction on Utopias part. He should be freed and I think political pressure would help there. After all, the President is a Nova, he should be open to bring a fair bit of pressure to bear.

I think a lot more can be achieved by political pressure than by terrorism. For example look at the Terragen, some of the are reasonable, like that Count guy. With a few good PR men and a bit of work that guy could really turn the Terragen into a devastating political force. Terrorists generally give their political stance a bad name, and this is what is happening to the Terragen.

I just don't feel killing people is going to do any good for the cause of Nova rights. We need a good political pressure group for that.

[Guest]

Hello again all,

I have been absent for a while now, for reasons I won't get into. It has to do with something i was handling in New England, if you know Jager ask him. He pointed me toward it in the first place. By the way Jager, the problem has been resolved permaanently. I am going to maintain some feelers in that area and surveilance just in case I am wrong, but the problem should be over.

I am overjoyed to see such discussion on this subject. I do feel it is important, and am glad to get the views of you all. truly interesting, I have much to think about. In the interest of continuing things, I would like to put a little exercise out for you all. For this several assumptions will need to be made. First of all, that society (both nova and baseline) can be made just, and that inequalities can be decreased if not eliminated. Secondly, that in the current climate it is impossible for a nova to get a fair trial or often even be touchable by baseline law/courts. Given these as basics for the exercise, what must be done to create a just environment? Those who (and I agree with) state that novas must have their own law and governance, what steps must be taken for this to happen? Those who encourage modification of baseline law to incorporate novas, how do you believe this could happen? This may be a bit ambitious and I do not expect detailed plans, though i imagine several novas have drafted such plans. Personally, I feel that novas must be policed and governed by themselves. Avenger and others have raised the reasons for such a thing. this can only be done by negotiating with baseline governments and creating awareness among both novas and baselines. However, this would take a great deal of time. Action is needed now to protect both novas and baselines. Geryon acts out this role, though very lopsidedly so. Others such as Jager,a nd even myself also try to perform similar activities for the benfit of all. This mix of political/social alteration and action is the best way to create the kind of justice for novas that I see a need for. However, both aspects must be applied with more care and precision than is currently done. I have gone on for too long again. My apologies. I look forward to your responses, and any other thoughts you have to share ont his topic. Be safe my friends, watch out for each other.

Hydra

P.S. Avenger- I was very surprised to see you posting here. I know of your distaste for such things, and understand your reasoning to a certain extent. I found your comments very enlightening and appreciate them greatly. Thank you for making an exception here and for your respect. It means a great deal from one of your accomplishemnts.

[Guest]

all i want to know is why. I am banned from entering las vegas. They have told the law there that i can be punished by death. I mean a man should be able to gowhere he wants. It all started with my eruption. So i won alot playin' black jack. spose i just want to catch some magic shows or somethin'.

i mean to ban a guy from a whole city. I mean stuff like this never happens to Pax. I think they dont like it when the little guy aint so little any more. I mean how can they do that. So fate favors me a little more that some one else it doesnt mean i cant lose ever or nothin' . I do lose sometimes - well almost anyway.

[Jager]

My advice; sue them on the grounds of discrimination. Casinos, being semi-private establishments can ban you, as an individual, if they can prove you are a threat to their livelyhood. The city can not ban you from entering, merely because you are a nova. Go to the ACLU, they love this kind of stuff.

[Elizabeth Rayne]

Lets get this straight you're actually banned from entering Las Vegas? Because your powers make you lucky? Banning you from gambling I can understand. It is a little bit like cheating after all.

But to ban you from the entire city? Well they can ban you from an area in the UK but that's for anti-social behaviour but I couldn't comment on the US.

I assume you haven't been being antosocial anyway so you should probably take Jaeger's advice and sue.

Beth

[Guest]

We'll you got a point. It's really my fault i guess. Several casinos kicked me out, but i can't stay away i love the atmosphere. I like to hear the coins go cha ching. Maybe i snuck into a couple of em once or twice. Maybe im really good at no being seen. Once i tried it disquised as Elvis. Yeah i brought in on my self. And if you reading this you tubby blue bastard im not through with you. Well any way, Its not like i win all the time . i do lose sometime - well may be a few times. I guess you could say it's cheating i was always lucky even before. I should just stay i way but man i really love that place. I guess i shoudn't have tried to take back my winnings!!