opnet [OpNet] What is a Nova ?

[Stheno]

I post this question partly in response to Sovem's declaration on Opposing views, and partly because I believe we need a proper definition of what we are all arguing about.

Without a proper definition, how can we ever determine if anyone is right?

Well, what is a nova ?

The question is more complex than it seems, and is pertinent to virtually all debates I have seen on this board.

All novas have an MR node.

The Teragen state we are superior because of a unique perspective upon reality and so on (this is a grotesque oversimplification).

Note that the nature of an individual entity's understanding/experience of reality is unique to that entity. This is the fundamental flaw in the Teragen assumption of nova *difference* based upon perceptual uniqueness.

While it may be correct, it is a thesis which can *never* be verified.

That makes it somewhat difficult to use in a rational discussion.

An advanced consciousness may be characteristic of some novas, but it is not verifiably so in any given case.

I present difficulties, not a challenge.

------------------

There are no stupid questions.

Only stupid answers.

[This message has been edited by Stheno (edited 05-19-2001).]

[Jager]

In my experience, novas have the 'enhanced' possibility to affect themselves and/or their environment. The key word being "possibility". Novas can go far beyond baseline humanity in what they can accomplish with their own physiology. This we know to be true. What we choose to do with it remains up to us as individuals, just like baselines.

[Ashnod]

Stheno posted

The Teragen state we are superior because of a unique perspective upon reality and so on (this is a grotesque oversimplification).

This is a grotesque sterotype of our movement. Not all of us are going to preach Nova superiority, Stheno. Some of us will merely emphasize that we are different and separate.

[Stheno]

Ashnod, I apologise for the inaccuracy.

The statement should have referred to difference, not superiority. I wrote in haste.

Jager:

All novas have greater potential to influence the environment.

Are all entities with greater potential to influence the environment novas ?

Unless the answer to the second question is yes, then this is not a satisfactory criterion for defining a nova.

Thank you both for your replies and input.

I value all suggestions and criticism.

[Wizard]

Nova is a colloqualization of Homo Sapiens Novus if I recall correctly. A scientific classification for a subset of Homo Sapiens Sapiens identified by the manifestion of an MR node.

Does it identify those with a potential to manifest a node that have not yet done so? No, I don't believe so. I believe that with the manifestation of the node, the biological change is what drives the seperate classification. Are nova the next step in evolution. I personally think this is unproven and unprovable at this time. Rather, I believe we are currently a possiblity in human evolution.

With the ability to reshape our environment through will and thought we've attained a tool or unparralleled power. Now if remains to be seen what we will do with it. We could end up killing ourselves off.

Are we a seperate species?

No, we're close enough to human baseline to interbreed with humanity according to several of the mega-intellects on this board. This would make us a sub-species since baseline humans manifested first.

Most importantly, what does it mean to be NOVA?

Haven't a clue here, big fella. I suspect that there are as many answers as there are manifested novas on the planet. More over, I suspect that if you were to identify the personality types in baseline human cultures, you would find the same personality types present in the Novas. The Terragen are the first to make a real attempt at controlling their development/evolution so those results are possibly not going to match up with baseline society for much longer.

[This message has been edited by Wizard (edited 05-19-2001).]

[Jager]

To this effect; Novas can directly effect their environment while baselines have to have or construct a medium for doing the same. A nova can start a forest fire by looking at the tinder, while the baseline needs a match. This criteria breaks down among the self-actualized novas who can't actually use their quantum to alter things. I will have to think on this. Definitely an A=B but a B=A situation.

[Guest]

Quote:

Originally posted by Stheno:
All novas have greater potential to influence the environment.
Are all entities with greater potential to influence the environment novas?

No, they are not. Think on something for a moment. Jager and others here have encountered individuals possessing nova-like powers without registering as novas. One of the likely possibilities is that they were not novas, rather another evolutionary offshoot of baseline humanity. Something to think about.

[Stheno]

Very well.

Atwight, I have become aware of other individuals with unusual capabilities which seem to be like those of novas, but who are not novas.

That is not my primary concern with this post - though it is clearly both of interest and considerable importance.

My concern is this:

How can we establish any kind of understanding of how a nova should behave, or determine the nature of a nova's moral obligation to baseline or nova society (if any), without an adequate definition of "nova"?

[Jager]

...and the definition of human is?

[Stheno]

Another flaw in the question, obviously.

But if we have no way of defining human, and no way of defining nova, then what reasonable defense can we have for an attempt to define nova and human as different ?

[Guest]

Ideed, Stheno, These are questions I am currently asking myself right now. The question of what is human is more difficult than it might appear to casual obsevation.

Is it a question of biology? Or is it something more? Are we human simply because we have more genetic material than the apes? Are we human because of the moral and ethical centers that we, as a species on this planet, share?

When you listen to average people talk, statements are made all the time about "Humanity" ("thats human nature," "That guys not human," etc.). Do they fully grasp what humanity is?

This is what the Merriam-Webster online dictionary classifies humanity as;

Main Entry: hu·man·i·ty

Pronunciation: hyü-'ma-n&-tE, yü-

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural -ties

Date: 14th century

1 : the quality or state of being humane

2 a : the quality or state of being human b plural : human attributes or qualities <his work has the ripeness of the 18th century, and its rough humanities -- Pamela H. Johnson>

3 plural : the branches of learning (as philosophy, arts, or languages) that investigate human constructs and concerns as opposed to natural processes (as in physics or chemistry) and social relations (as in anthropology or economics)

4 : MANKIND 1

This does not really awnser our question does it? So what constitutes Human? And are Novas, Human?

If it is purely a matter of biology or genetics, then I would have to say each nova must be judged on their individual biology. Young Jordan, as an example, could probably be classified as human, while I, as another example, probably could not. Still, If humanity is more than the physical body than it is anybody's guess as to the true nature of novakind.

[Dr cornelius]

I myself consider myself a nova and not a human, but I, concede that I came from human genetic stock, and count myself blessed that. I had the right genetic sequence to make me have a dormant node, and the day my node erupted, I became a new being, in mind and body.

At this moment in time we are like the ancient Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon, (humans and nova's, and possibly a third rout race species psion?), should be interesting to see just what happens in the coming millennium, especially with the addition of our new friends here on Primus

[Wizard]

Quote:

Originally posted by Stheno:
But if we have no way of defining human, and no way of defining nova, then what reasonable defense can we have for an attempt to define nova and human as different ?

Actually, I have no vested interest in mounting a reasonable defense. There are differences which are going to become increasingly obvious as time goes on and those with the power to change the environment become more proficient at doing so. Still, I wonder if they are less human, as many argue, or more human.

Think of it. Imagine a world where there are no novas. Now picture one human/nova/whatever with the power to dominate the thoughts and actions of others. What would he do with those powers? And after doing it for a long period of time how human would he seem to those without a similiar ability for a period of time.

Personally, I think we're all human. Not homo sapiens, but human. The changes come first from our abilities to alter the environment and secondarily from the acquisition of taint.

The terats are really the first generation of novas to attempt to become something more than human as they attempt to become archetypes. I'm not certain that's an improvement but if they succeed then I will no longer be in a position to judge being limited to my human perspective.

[Guest]

This was posted on the Advice for newbies section as a reply to a comment made by James. Please pick it appart as you will, I am not going to give myself a quantum headache by trying to cover every eventuality but surely this makes sense...

"James, now hold on. You are saying the capacity to be human resides purely in the physical and mental? I disagree. Our race (humanity not Novas) have people with IQs from 40 to 200 roughly. How is a Mega intelligent nova any different from Albert Einstien compared to someone with a low IQ? The answer is there is no difference. How is someone with three arms different from someone with two when you compare them to someone with one arm?

You and all of us are still human. The only difference is the MR-Node which can be removed and therefore reverts us to a baseline form. Watch the old movie "Phenomenon" for an exact example of what I believe it is to be a Nova.

Sorry about the rant James. I really believe that all this 'we are not human' rubbish is just a cover for people who don't want to face facts."

[Hugin]

Allright, you seem to be one of those romantics who feel that being human is defined by some indescribable quality, some unknown element or quirk that sets us apart from everything else.

Thats a wonderful argument, since you won't define your terms you don't have to defend them. You can simply sit back, fold your arms and chant 'you're wrong' over and over again.

So, where do we stand? Well, you state that humanity cannot be defined by physical or mental terms. You state that I am no different from a human with an IQ of 200 than that human is from a human with an IQ of 40. Fine, you in no way can comprehend what exactly I am capable of yet you have the ability to decide that. I assume that you are going to pull out the old saw of the 'spiritual' aspect of humanity? Or perhaps you will talk of the emotional aspects of humanity? If you do, beware, that makes Cornielius' blue furred abominations human, as it does dolphins, normal chimpanzees, and a host of other lifeforms.

[Jager]

Trauma, normally it would be hubris to say that on this date, a new species came into being. Certainly, homo ercectus didn't have Cro-Magnon babies. The evolutionary process was slow and varied.

Our problem stems from the power that the human-nova "first generation" has. Our power can be so great that some of our number can stress their evolution several stages. At what point does a nova cease being human? Isn't that our argument?

It is akin to the argument of when does techonology become magic. Well, to the people who build and use that techonology, it's just tech, but to the people who have no idea of how the thing works or is constructed, it is magic.

Now, I personaly believe that some novas will stress their own evolution in such a manner until they can no longer be considered human. Likewise, I don't feel that merely having an MR-node removes your humanity. It doesn't. I also believe that there are novas out there that feel that having the node changes everything and that they have 'evolved' beyond petty human concern. Humans have a term for that and it ain't 'erupted'. Its insanity. Hey, Trauma will back me up on this; having a golf-ball sized tumor in your head can have repercussions to the old psyche. Most people want to be different or special. They miss the fact that they were before the node erupted.

I am not going to argue that Atwight, Ashnod, Sovem, Prodigy,Wizard, or even Cornelius percieve things differently than baselines. That has been a gift of their quantum. So be it. For that matter, a blind-from birth Tibetean monk, a business man in Brasilia, and a coma patient in Jersey are all precieving reality differently as well. It is a combination of both physical and mental processes. Having dealt with several people mentioned above, I can also say that so far, the all precieve things differently as well, are smart in different ways (James, don't ever let Atwight do your taxes) and even have differing intelligence levels.

Were is all this going? I don't know. I can't say with any great certainty that some novas haven't evolved to another level. I usually leave that distinction up to them.

[Stheno]

Thank you all for your input.

Food for thought, indeed.

This is the basis for my question:

Physically, I differ from baseline humanity in minor ways, genetically I differ from homo sapiens sapiens by more than 20%.

I do not experience emotion.

I do not remember ever being a baseline, nor have I ever been able to find evidence that I was one.

So I ask you, am I human ?

Am I nova ?

Can I be nova if I was never human ?

[Dr cornelius]

James,

Regarding your comment,

[i assume that you are going to pull out the old saw of the 'spiritual' aspect of humanity? Or perhaps you will talk of the emotional aspects of humanity? If you do, beware, that makes Cornelius' blue furred abominations human, as it does dolphins, normal chimpanzees, and a host of other life forms.]

I read your comments to one of the neo-chimps who, helps me in the lab, and it has spread to all the others through the fast use of the affinity link. It caused quit a commotion, they don't consider themselves abominations, and they consider the normal chimpanzees, to be lost cousins who have yet, to find the light of up-lift. As for them being human spiritually, they don't think of themselves that way, spiritually the think of them selves as neo-chimps, they have yet to choose a name for there race, the debate is still raging on, especially with the new uplifted 5000 + we processed and integrated, they all want there input added.

As for your jab at the dolphins, I have acquaintances working on up-lifting dolphins, I shared with them some of my techniques on gene manipulation, and cybernetic augmenting and enhancing with them as would be used on aquatic specie's like dolphins, porpoises, or whales. Also they could see that the up-lift of the chimps was my goal, and didn't want to interfere, as well as some of them having aquatic tendencies. They inform me that the dolphin psyche is quit complex and nothing like the human one, and they have an ancient and established spiritual identity and belief system.

[Hugin]

Cornelius, I am afraid that you read my post incorrectly. I *was not* stating that your little azure apes were human. The same goes for dolphins, chimps, etc. What I was saying was that if Trauma was going to use an emotional definition (ie, the possession of "human" emotions) of what it is to be human then he was going to have to include more groups in his definition than I thought he was prepared to do.

I do not think that your little experiments are human. I am also disgusted to hear that others are going to be picking up your bad habits and start fiddling around with another species.

[Wizard]

Quote:

Originally posted by Stheno:
Thank you all for your input.
Food for thought, indeed.

Physically, I differ from baseline humanity in minor ways, genetically I differ from homo sapiens sapiens by more than 20%.

I would draw your attention to the fact that humans, baseline or nova, differ from apes by only 3%. A minor difference but sufficient to give you Mozart, Einstein or Jack the Ripper.

So I ask you, am I human? Am I nova? Can I be nova if I was never human ?

I... don't know. In humans, a lack of emotion may be signs of mental distress and is considered unhealthy. In your case it may simply be a reality.

You are probably not homo sapiens. Without getting into unquantifiable criteria I would say you are therefore not human as it is generally understood and thus not nova either. As a sentient you appear to have some common ground with those of us that use this forum but how much is a question only you can answer.

[Dr cornelius]

James 'Prodigy' Meehan,

The experimentation on the other species, namely the dolphins, started about 1 1/2 years after I was contacted. And given help in terms of resources and facility locations to expand mine on the chimps, I was asked by the benefactors to help another project, they where setting up from scratch. On the up-lift of the, dolphins, as they liked the results of the neo-chimps.

Where I, to be eliminated, my assistants and work colleagues would continue the work, and a replacement with my abilities would be found by the benefactors. They where able to help me speed up my time table, had they not, It would have taken a little bit longer to expand my project and organisation to what it is in numbers, allies and locations.

Who my benefactors are, I would guess at nova's who erupted before 1980, maybe a lot earlier, maybe early 1900's, only meet one, and to be in the same room was like being a candle next to a sun. And to describe him/her is hard to do, easy to visualize, but hard speaking or writing about.

I am curious just what about my research and work do you find disgusting? Don't you think animals should be up-lifted, given the intelligence of chimps, gorilla's, and dolphins, there family structure and society, and how they are treated by humans, and in some cases the closeness of the genetic material.

If you don't agree with it what are your reasons, why?

[Jager]

Cornelius, what do you think your benefactors are after?

Why do you think that they were ever human?

What led you to believe that pre-event novas would agree to a face to face, knowing you would talk about it?

The only one of us who claims to be pre-event is Atwight and I believe that not only is he telling the truth, but that he is risking his very existance by saying so.

On an aside, I just LOVE the idea of uplifted orcas. Really, I do. The cross-application of uplift science is terrifying. I can't wait for someone else to uplift sharks, gators, crocs, tigers, and of course, cockroaches. Before you have a cow, Cornelius, why do you think they steared you toward nanites and replicatible tech as opposed to developing a quantum power to create the "uplift effect"? We could do that, ya know?

James, we need to talk. I think I was wrong about some things I said earlier. Sorry.

[Hugin]

Cornelius-I find your actions horrendous because they are so unnecessary. I have an IQ beyond calculation, I have mastered every form of science know to man and made up a couple on the way. I can effectively foretell the future on a grandscale simply by calculating the factors. I can do all of this and I understand that interfering in the evolutionary path of another species is beyond my ability to control the experiment. You are a short sighted optimist of great talent and greater power and thats the worst kind.

Look back at your posts and you will see a continual trend, Jaeger has already pointed it out. 'Everythings going great', 'no problems here', 'we can handle any threat', 'I know exactly what I am doing', 'we've met an alien sentience and are completely able to handle all posibilities.' Jesus man, you have never admitted to a shortcoming or having come across anything that has stumped you. Jaegers right, either you are in some weird quantum construct of a universe (Atwight can do that?! Good god.) or your patently insane. Me, I have a pretty heavy favorite in choice number two.

The only problem the chimps faced was the threat of human encroachment. Answer, simple, give them a new territory without this threat, which you did, Primus. Amping the crap out of them with Sun Tzu, weaponry, and nanites dripping from their asses was just a tad overboard don't you think? Sorry, silly question, you don't think.

Jaeger- What have you said to offend me? I remember nothing too offensive. You disagree with me, thats your right and I respect that.

[Jordan]

I want to know if anyone here has any experience or knowledge about eruptions in the animal kingdom.

[Guest]

I doubt its possible JR. Why is everyone here so dead set on proving that they are a seperate species? Could everyone answer that for me in one sentence or less?

[Dr cornelius]

James,

Ok, I might have made everything look to Rosie and neat, as we have had problems, but I just didn't feel like mentioning them, they are just minor background problems, and we have had so far,

· Logistical problems.

· Resource problems

· Personnel number problems

· Overload of work, not enough people to do it

· Housing shortages

· Slow manufacturing of nanite seeds for the creation of buildings and houses (they are not easy to create or design, and take some time to manufacture)

· And the list continues….

I'm not a weird quantum construct, neither an I insane, we have just had to re-arrange products, and time timetables, acquire borrowed personnel from some of the other sections that deal with us. We have muddled through and found solutions, some fast some slow. I just didn't not feel like burdening the rest of you. And yes we have had some problems with the aliens; at the start we had a communication problem on both sides, due to the mental static created by us being on opposite polarities in energy type usage.

I have found some short comings within myself, when that happens I converse with the other novas here through telepathy and the affinity link, and we find a solution, when we find we need more input, we add more people to the conversation.

As for augmenting the chimps to overdose, it helped them and caused them no harm.

Jager,

What do I think your benefactors are after? they seem to want to help humanity and novas and the animals with potential, so far they have only showed those feelings, they may have others but I have not been informed, they are a very close lot.

Why do you think that they were ever human? They had quantum powers and signature matrixes like us, just more developed, if they where not novas, what where they then, quantum aliens????

What led you to believe that pre-event novas would agree to a face to face, knowing you would talk about it? I didn't arrange a meeting one of them popped into my lab and offered me there help, as I had rejected there previous offers by there agents out of hand thinking they where from utopia, they contacted me through known allies. When they/he/her popped into my lab it scarred the shit out of me, like a candle next to a sun, thought I would be engulfed and blown out.

As for your love of orca's I have no idea if one of the other sections is dealing with them, I'm aware of some to do with dolphins. Research is being restricted to certain species, sharks and crocs and gators are not on the list that is being worked on. I'm aware of the applications up-lift can be turned to, that is why I'm reluctant to share it with a lot of people.

[Why do you think they steered you toward nanites and replicatible tech as opposed to developing, a quantum power to create the "uplift effect"? We could do that, ya know?]

They have not steered me, they have let me guide my own boat, just requested that I help out some of the other sections, when they need it, and if we have some equipment we aren't using if we could share it. As for the development of a quantum power to create the up-lift affect, I have and over a dozen different techniques to go with it, I have the taint results in minor body alterations that went with it. I have not and will not teach anyone of the power and techniques, it's too dangerous, so I plan to keep it to myself, for my own use. As for the hard tech manipulation technology and techniques, that is my way of sharing watered down techniques with the rest, that have safe guards protecting the development.

[Wizard]

Quote:

Originally posted by Trauma:
Why is everyone here so dead set on proving that they are a seperate species? Could everyone answer that for me in one sentence or less?

Not everyone. I believe nova's are a sociological divergence driven by a biological difference. Not alike the mindset required for racial discrimination, just easier to prove because of the presence of the MR node. That sociological difference will, in time, become a cultural difference.

[Hugin]

Trauma-I am not attempting to *prove* to you that we are a different race, I am trying to *explain* to you how we are a different race. The facts are what they are, your acknowledgement does nothing to change that.

[Jager]

James, your initial feelings toward Cornelius and his work was one of outrage while mine was one of tolerance.

I now think that your instincts were more on the mark than mine.

Cornelius, there are no beings of higher intellect and power who want to freely allow us to expand our horizons. Try this on for size:

If Bobo the neo-chimp is running an experiment, can you figure out how that experiment is going to come out and what conclusions he will make? Of course you can, because your a whole lot smarter than he is. Why couldn't your benefactors do the exact same thing to you?

Cornelius, my techs (sad little creatures that they are) converted your nanotech to work with dogs. They worked wonderfully. Then they tried them out on a goldfish. Guess what, they worked too. They even hooked up a micro-laser so he can clean up the algea in his own tank. After that, we had to scrag all the first generation stuff and abandon the site.

While I have been busy in Egypt, my team 'visited' one of your sites on Primus (yes, as James pointed out, anyone can follow you clues and figure out where you are) and borrowed some of (well, actually, all of) you uplift protocals. We back tracked it, and guess what? Ever heard of an R&D firm called Terradyne? They used similar tech to modify squid and octopi about a year ago. Sadly, the squid rebelled and ate the project staff. For those curious enough, the abandoned site is off the coast of Labrador in about 500m of water. Wear appropriate clothing.

Crap Doc, I really want to like you, but you have to run a tighter ship.

By the by, some of my contacts say that before your little blow-up back here a few weeks back, some folks in Utopias tech div., Triton, began recieving some new nanotech and were slated to get some "illegal genetic agumentation" gear. Stranger still, they were told to keep the whole setup in isolation to avoid contaminants. Those protocals were so stringent, that one tech noted that they were following NASA Mars procedure; like they were getting something from another world. Ring any bells? They're still waiting on your gear and they don't think they will be waiting much longer, despite the delay.

[Dr cornelius]

Jager,

As for my benefactors using their higher intelligence to, manipulate me and guide me down their course, that analysis is feasible, and has possible truths in it. As for your team visiting us, we where aware of it, they where being monitored the moment they stepped foot on Primus, we detected them incoming, I, gave a no interdiction order, I was curious what they where up to, so that they where not hassled or intercepted. As the visuals of them, correlated with some of your operatives. I let them take the protocols, and let them leave alive. If you wanted the protocols, all you had to do was ask, as I consider you an ally of sorts, got to think about that opinion now.

The next incursion by your forces unannounced, and uninvited will meet in them being taken alive, then released back on earth alive, if they resist then they might get hurt, please do not do this again. I have no wish to be your enemy, but if you force me to be, then I will take on that role. The teleportation, and warp dampeners, have been put online again, so no more unexpected visits will be possible. We where able to track them to there arrival point on earth, before they got there, we have some nice snaps taken by a borrowed satellite of them arriving. I wouldn't want to have to borrow a kinetic energy gun satellite.

Yes I, have heard of an R&D firm called Terradyne, they are/where a subsidiary section connected to the benefactors, using some of my basic knowledge, they didn't apply them right, and choose the wrong subject species, I personally had nothing to do with them, but they where given access to early hard tech experimental data.

I run a tight ship, the nano-tech didn't get leaked by my people, but another section connected to the larger group, that where given some nano-tech for use, each section was given specific nano-tech, with a unique hidden signature in them, we where aware of utopias receiving some, we where able to get copy of the signature the nano-tech they have, and track it down to the relevant section, they where looked into by our internal affairs department and the moles found, they where dealt with, utopias not getting anymore nano-tech, or any genetic material or technology. They will be waiting a long time, and if they do obtain it, I will have no choice then to destroy their facility, from orbit.

As for your technicians experiments, I'm glad that our AI we sent was able to teach them that well, that they where able to do, what they did. The dog, is a god idea, can help in the field, but the goldfish hmm, I would have not done that, no practical purpose or outcome.

If I sound threatening or irritated, it is because it seems that I have been put in charge with out any prior knowledge of the fact. I'm now in charge of all the sections that are being consolidated on primus. Didn't want the job, but there is no one else who wants it, so if I want this colony to thrive. I got to do it. The benefactors have offered no input, just left it this way, now they sit back and watch we sweat bullets as I try to get us all operational, god I hate how department heads bicker about what they want. My people ran smooth, will take awhile to get the rest in step.

[Hugin]

Well, why wouldn't you be put in charge? I mean, evidently you're perfect. You see all, know all. You know exactly what weaknesses exist in your defenses and apparently they are all false. You know about every single invasion, know about the intentions of those invaders and allow it to happen because, well, you're just that good. Also, hell, even when faced with a powerful alien force with powers you've never experienced before, well, you're able to figure out their psychology enough so that you know that they are no danger, all within a few hours.

I am sorry to hear that you have some problems with basic maintenence, personell issues, and other red tape, but hell, you've got everything else handled. Damn, you're my hero.

Jager-The man is insane. If you plan on getting past his defenses let me know, I have a couple 'gifts' for you to leave. Here are the blueprints. Fairly easy to obtain hardware this time.

[Wizard]

Doctor Cornelius,

I have never stooped to manipulating people sheerly for the fun of it. Nor do I make it a habit of interfering in the concerns of others when it does not impinge on my own affairs.

As a friendly or friendly neutral (you never told me which category I belong to) I would like, in the spirit of friendship, to draw your attention to one or two points.

1. To quote an obscure 20th century reference, you're mysterious but it's a very loud kind of mysterious. Your actions draw attention to yourself and your work. Worse, it draws attention to those that consider you their patron and they are not prepared to deal with the response that attention is going to deliver. If attack comes it is going to be a game of tit for tat. You respond to an attack, and counter-attack. With the level of preparation you speak of it will not be you paying the price in these attacks.

Some of the forces gradually aligning against you are of an elemental nature. If I may draw a crude analogy, a hurricane is building and if its path crosses yours there will be destruction. Deciding that there is no danger because you possess the resources and intelligence to minimize the possibility of damage does not detract from the hubris of choosing to stand in the path of the hurricane.

2. Life is not calculable. With that in mind I would point out that you have an extremely limited basis for your assumptions as to how your natal sentients are going to react in the long run to the manipulations and experiences they are undergoing.

Understand please, I am not detracting from your abilities. I personally am in no position to evaluate the your intellectual endeavors. Nor am I desparaging the intentions or potentials for those natal sentients.

Telepathy? Affinity links? New sentients without culture or society except for that of another species? Unless you include the society they had as pre-sentients. You cannot know where this is going because there is no prior data evaluate your (their) progress. You are walking into entirely new and unknown territory and evaluating your progress by standards that have no relevance since this is completely new.

I am not by nature a careful person but I take solace in the fact that I freely acknowledge when I am in over my head and that it's my own damn fault for being there. I do not -ever- knowingly put others in danger, even if I think the danger is remote.

[Jordan]

Why do you doubt it is possible Trauma? I mean, with nova powers, anything is possible right? Why don't you think animals can't erupt?

[This message has been edited by Jordan Rossi (edited 05-27-2001).]

[Dr cornelius]

James 'Prodigy' Meehan,

I'm, far from perfect I admit that, I didn't want to be put in charge, the benefactors put we in charge through their machinations, miss one AGM meeting and bound to get something put on you, didn't expect this tho. I don't have omni-vision or planning, but am given hints and other information and facts and other things in my dreams, the benefactors making sure all is going well, informing me with the things I need to know. So I may not know what's going down, but something or someone does and I get informed, so I can do something about it.

Am I being used as a tool, yes probably so, am I paying a price for it yes I am, do I enjoy the benefits, yes I do. Sometimes you just have to trust in something you know nothing about. Am I insane, no I'm not? Am I stressed and over worked, and not getting enough sleep definitely yes, you want my job and position and responsibilities, you can have them, but unfortunately there not mine to give, none transferable.

How do I handle all the issues when I reach a dead end, through mental gestalts over the affinity link with the others, not just me handling them, its all us here, so they all deserve the credit? So if anyone is your hero we all are as a group.

Wizard,

I categorize you as a grey neutral, partly trustworthy, but still a lot unknown about you. We understand what you are getting across in your first point, and we are trying to avoid intersecting with the path of the storm, trying to make sure we don't get any of its rain. We (when I refer to we I mean all of us here including myself.), are trying to blend into the background and not stick out at all, that's why, things earth side have been quietened down, and projects there have either been slowed down, or postponed for awhile.

We don't want to course a lot of destruction, and have no wish to attack anyone; we value all our people here, and don't wish any to come to any harm, even temporary harm. We are aware the paths we are going down, have no set future, and that we are creating new possibilities as we go. We can no longer say that this is going to happen and they will do this, even our precogs, and clairvoyants are saying that there are a lot more lines of probability appearing, with others diverging from them.

Yes we are walking into entirely new and unknown territory and evaluating our progress by standards that are constantly changing, some becoming totally irrelevant, since this is completely new we are learning, the learners and experienced professionals We are aware that we are over our head in the changing environment, but there is no going back, so have to ride the waves out, yes we are the ones responsible. And I'm aware of the causes and affects that have been brought into play because of my actions.

[Jager]

Jordan, Trauma, I have never heard of an animal erupting. I think it has something to do with the length of the nucliad chain or something like that. I have heard of more than one person giving short term powers (up to a week or so) to various animals. The biggest thing of note is that they are not immune to their own effects like true novas are. If a dog breaths flame, he is going to incinerate its mouth. It has to be made flame resistant as well.

Certainly, if someone masters the MR node mystery, it could be possible. Of course, all my info. is based on a different paradigm and things could be different here. Has anyone heard of it being any other way?

[Ashnod]

I'm honestly surprised this question has merited so much argument from the side of us who believe themselves to still be part of the baseline race.

You keep asking why we insist that we are different. My question to you is, why do you insist that you are the same? What possible merit is there to being considered an equal to a baseline? None. Not one. There is a large, very large amount of merit for a baseline to be considered the equal of a Nova, though. Think about that for a while. That's what the Zurich Accord is there for, after all. To give them the security of not feeling irrelevant.

Actually, Jager said something on a different board that really irked for me a few days. He told Jordan Rossi to "take CPR classes, because people will expect you to save lives and will get miffed if you can't."

What does that say about what we're expected to do, from a baseline point of view? It's scary because Jager is right, they will and do expect it. But I don't know how to adequately express my anger at this. We are not obligated to do ANYTHING for baselines because of WHAT we are. The mere fact that this is EXPECTED of us indicates that they themselves hold us in another category altogether.

Mr. Rossi, if you do end up taking classes on life-saving simply because you feel you're obligated to, I urge you to strongly reconsider your motivations. If you feel that protecting and preserving baseline life is your calling, I can hardly fault you for that (Jager's case is another matter entirely), but to do so because they expect you to? That's a really, really low and demeaning form of pressure to put on you simply because you erupted. Your destiny is what you make of it. Don't let the baseline world dictate what you should be or how you should act.

There isn't a member of T2M who hasn't lain awake at night and wondered if the NULL MANIFESTO wasn't more than just propaganda at some point. They feel it in themselves, nagging at the back of their thoughts until something comes along to delude them for a few hours. Can't you feel it too, those of you still insisting you're no different? Isn't there some ache within you telling you that something isn't right? Part of you that needs fulfilling?

Why on earth do you all of you want to be considered something you're not?

[Jordan]

Ashnod,

Still trying to recruit me, Huh? I don't do anything unless it does one thing. Entertain me. I train with Jager because I like to, its fun. I work for the foundation because I like to, its fun. I don't let anyone dictate how I should act, my own moral center does just fine. The only expectations I live up to are those of the people I care about and respect. Not alot of baselines or novas fit that bill right now.

I have no desire to run around spewing racist garbage of any kind, from either side. My question is why are you so vehement about getting us to accept that we are so different? Supposedly, we are all responsible for our own destinies, so why are you trying so hard to influence them? In the end, the differences don't really matter. It is the similarities that do. I don't know and don't care if I am a different species than my father. Its a moot point anyway. It doesn't change the fact that we all share this planet together and thus need to somehow get along.

You want to segregate 6,000 to 15,000 people from a world of over 6,000,000,000 people. What makes you think that will help novas? Where would you have them go? How many nations would want 6,000 racists with cosmic powers living as a community within their borders? I think your letting your emotions get in the way of your judgement on this one.

Oh and by the way. I am Human. Not baseline, not nova. Human, and I always will be.

[This message has been edited by Jordan Rossi (edited 05-28-2001).]

[Hugin]

So, you simply want to be entertainted eh? Well my friend you are already closer to us than you think. Ever heard of the Pandaimoniom? Fun group of rascals them. If you'd like I can send you a couple of videos of some of their more way out soires, they do know how to throw a party. Don't let your dad see them however, he might think your still a little young.

I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it until I am blue in the face. As a member of Teras I want to seperate baseline humanity from Novas for the best of each group. I study the works of Da Vinci, Einstein, Hawking, Pollock, Tesla and I weep for baselines. Who was the last great baseline inventor, artist, innovator? None in the last decade, all of the great minds of baseline humanity merely act as our assistants in the lab. They cannot even begin to comprehend our advances but they are the closest so they are relegated to subservient positions. Goddammit people, Novas are killing baseline brilliance!!

Rossi, you've said that your father is a talented lawyer. What would happen should I decide to put my shingle up? I might hire him as a file clerk. He couldn't beat me in court. I can sway any judge, any jury, I have an encyclopedic knowledge of law and a strategic mind second to no baseline. Give the world another forty years and that is what every lawyer is going to be and the baselines with hidden talent will simply be unnecessary.

This is similar to what happened in American highschools as local governments increased school sizes far beyond what had been socially the norm. In a school of four hundred kids there was enough room for each child's talents to be recognized. Once schools expanded to two thousand students only the extremely gifted were recognized. Hundreds of students who had talents that were not so obvious but possibly greater in potential were ignored. We have already reached that point, where the brilliant bright lights of the Novas have drowned out thousands of candles. Its only going to get worse.

[Jordan]

Well, why don't you, in all you brilliance, come up with a practical solution? One that all sides can agree on. All I hear from the Terats on this board is how fantastic they are, how much better they are, how baselines are so inferior, how useless they are, and so on and so on. I have yet to hear a single suggestion on how to solve the problem. Apep asked the question on opposing views, What have you done lately? Well, I ask it again. What have you done recently to make this world better?

[Hugin]

Jordan, I've done quite a bit actually. But there is only so much I can do by myself which is why I put so much effort into convincing others of the validity of my theories. I need help to put a lot of my plans into action.

I have stated several times that Novas need to leave this planet. Therefore I have already put together a number of schematics for space stations, terraforming either Mars or Venus and a couple of more way out theories involving moving us across probability lines and taking us to an earth where sentient life did not evolve.

Now, while I have the brilliance necessary to draw up the blueprints for each of these ventures I do not have the power necessary to put them into play. So, I chat. I talk with other Novas and do my best to bring them around to my way of thinking. When I have enough people of the proper skill sets I will put one or more of the above into effect. Other Novas will then be welcome to join me and my friends.

Now, I know that I cannot convince everybody, I have no need to. If you don't want to join me, fine, you are free to be what you want to be. When the war erupts you can then be free to fight or die. I prefer to not be here. I suspect Jaeger will stay here too late and be caught in the resulting horror. Cornelius will probably be dead by then, destroyed by the manipulations that he refuses to see. Atwight will probably be gone off to some other place that none of us could comprehend. Ashnod, I hope, would join me, or someone else with similar plans. Trauma seems bitten by the honor bug, and will probably fight for the baselines. What will you do?