Aberrant: Quantum Zero - QZ - game mechanics

[ezekiel]

Telepathy is a good thing. Sometimes I wish my characters were telepathic. If Vinnie were telepathic, for example, he'd tell the Stranger to get under the stage and figure out a way to grab Ms Cable. Too bad Vinnie isn't telepathic.

Did I mention how I feel about telepathy?

OOh, I wish I could fly, ooh, I have SUCH a BIG headache...so...painful...how I wish I could tell what she was thinking about me...like a wish or something...ooh, got to take a tylenol for this massive...unexplainable...headache...ooh...I just can't go on, gonna jump off this building...ooh..big headache..ooh ::wink ::tongue

Vinnie's really cool actually, makes you wonder how he knows all of this stuff...

[Asbjørn]

Thanks.

But what 'stuff' are you referring to, Zeke?

[ezekiel]

Thanks.

But what 'stuff' are you referring to, Zeke?

The layout of the place and the laid-out security there, the name of the devil-dude...

[Asbjørn]

What can I say... he's a good investigator with a nifty look-through-walls enhancement... ::cool

Got a bit lucky on the name, though. The long version: Very thorough background check on a lot of people way back when he started looking into the templars. Short version: PM. ::biggrin

Now I just hope his willpower will be enough to avoid signing anything in blood and joining the club. ::unsure

[Alex Green]

OOh, I wish I could fly, ooh, I have SUCH a BIG headache...so...painful...how I wish I could tell what she was thinking about me...like a wish or something...ooh, got to take a tylenol for this massive...unexplainable...headache...ooh...I just can't go on, gonna jump off this building...ooh..big headache..ooh ::wink ::tongue

Hey, how bad can it be... ::nuclear

[ezekiel]

Now I just hope his willpower will be enough to avoid signing anything in blood and joining the club

The "I'm on the run" club or the "We like Mr. Devil's big giant male chicken" club? ::sly

What can I say... he's a good investigator with a nifty look-through-walls enhancement...

Got a bit lucky on the name, though. The long version: Very thorough background check on a lot of people way back when he started looking into the templars. Short version: PM.

::smile

Cool; and Blaze is probably gonna follow up on that egyptian stuff now..looking forward to finding out what that's all about. I just wish he'd find out about Masters starting to chant in egyptian at Emma during the T2M Masters property inspection / Terry-gen debacle. Now that Glacier's back with Terry guess only Terats will know as the Masters crew go Terry hunting along with Vinnie, Devries and Nippontai... ::huh ::blink

Let's hope Terry doesn't alienate the Terats.. ::tongue ::biggrin

[Asbjørn]

The "I'm on the run" club or the "We like Mr. Devil's big giant male chicken" club? ::sly

::smile

Who are you calling chicken? ::biggrin

But yes, that's the one. Luckily, running is something warpers and 'porters are good at...

Cool; and Blaze is probably gonna follow up on that egyptian stuff now..looking forward to finding out what that's all about. I just wish he'd find out about Masters starting to chant in egyptian at Emma during the T2M Masters property inspection / Terry-gen debacle.

That all depends on how much Emma will trust him, I guess. If she even remembers the event... ::rolleyes Hopefully this little egyptian adventure will help there. It will be fun, and this way Blaze won't have to go up against Terry and Glacier on his own... ::wacko

Now that Glacier's back with Terry guess only Terats will know as the Masters crew go Terry hunting along with Vinnie, Devries and Nippontai... ::huh ::blink

Let's hope Terry doesn't alienate the Terats.. ::tongue ::biggrin

No, no... let's hope he does. Will be much less to worry about for Vinnie and his contract that way... ::sly ::devil

[knave]

Amagawd - just read the last downtime post... heavy!

Nice one Prof!

[Alex Green]

Amagawd - just read the last downtime post... heavy!

Nice one Prof!

Yes indeed. It raises a number of IC issues and implications that I'll address IC.

[Prince of Boredom]

Ok Prof, I have TOTALLY lost the bubble on QZ. Are Derek and Mike still in the training room fighting the simulated bad guy? I want to get a post in for Mike, but I've been quite delinquent, and not sure where he is right now...

[Asbjørn]

I have a feeling he waited for you to post for Mike, but gave up... Which is partly why Blaze is in an egyptian coma and not battling terats off the coast of Japan.

So yes.. If there had been a Mike post before Nathan collapsed, he'd be in the training room, I guess. Now I don't know. Probably watching a lot of medical and scientific stuff he doesn't understand and hoping his colleague pulls through. Right..? ::sly

Or he's on his way to Japan. ::tongue

That's my guess, anyway.

[Prince of Boredom]

Yeah, I think that's probably what happened too...

Now jsut trying to find out where Mike is so I can get back in the swing of things.

[ezekiel]

Who are you calling chicken? ::biggrin

But yes, that's the one. Luckily, running is something warpers and 'porters are good at...

[Asbjørn]

D'oh!! ::brick ::rolleyes

Didn't get that one at all.. And I've always been proud of my dirty mind too...

Well.. while I know at least one purple-clad elite who'd love to see or hear about Vinnie kneeling to serve the Master, I'm afraid the following bloodshed would be nasty...

[ProfPotts]

Ok Prof, I have TOTALLY lost the bubble on QZ. Are Derek and Mike still in the training room fighting the simulated bad guy? I want to get a post in for Mike, but I've been quite delinquent, and not sure where he is right now...

Well, it's pretty much as Asbjørn suggested...

Basically Derek & Mike were in the training room. What they saw wasn't any big flash of firey doom - all that appeared to happen was that Blaze & Emma both screamed & collapsed...

As to what Mike's up to now - well, Nate & Emma were rushed to one of the many medical labs, at which point it was discovered that the biosuits wouldn't come off. Now Doc Chen (& Derek too I'd imagine) is working on a way to do just that. Mike & Derek's biosuits came off just fine (but then again, they did that from the inside - 'telling' the suit to open up - it seems to be the 'emergency release enzyme' which isn't working).

Masters hasn't asked Mike to go to Japan - he spent some time barking orders in (what Mike presumed was) Japanese into his phone, but generally seems more concerned with the Blaze/Emma situation. So far Mike's just been left hanging...

... However, since you're happy to jump in again, I'll post something right away to get the guy back into the action - in fact, Mike's powers fit the scenario perfectly! ::biggrin

[Asbjørn]

Ok, so.. the old 'spending willpower to resist' thing.. that's still an option, right? I mean, this is just the sort of thing Vinnie would expect...

[ProfPotts]

Resist what? ::confused The guy's just being reasonable (i.e. he's not using any powers or enhancements on Vinnie - he's just naturally persuasive).

Put another way - if this was a PC with Mega-Manipulation Vs an NPC, then the NPC would react in a favourable way. Since its a NPC Vs a PC, then its down to role-playing as to how you handle it - all I've done is try to describe just how convincing the guy is: there's no compulsion to actually do what he says or anything - social abilities aren't mind control after all. Vinnie no more has to go along with what Adam says than he'd have to, for example, instantly jump into bed with a Mega-Appearance Nova who tried to seduce him.

Vinnie's on-guard, & aware of the guy's reputation for being a smooth-talker, but even taking that all into account the guy has still come across as convincing: which should indicate the sort of successes he can roll. It's up to you as the player to dictate your character's actions based on what you think he'd do, keeping all that in mind. Reacting in some opposing fashion, of course, may be your instinct as a player, but hopefully you'll see that doing so would pretty much just be abusing player Vs character knowledge - Vinnie doesn't know about dice pools & the like, all he knows is that the guy seems to be playing it straight.

If actual mind control of some form was in play, then I'd mention it in some OOC fashion.

The best Vinnie can hope for from spending Willpower is to 'act against instinct', but that seems a bit of a waste to me, considering he's still in control of what he does.

[Asbjørn]

If actual mind control of some form was in play, then I'd mention it in some OOC fashion.

Thanks. That's what I'm asking. I wasn't sure... ::smile

[Ayre el KaBeer]

I didn't realise the QZ was back up and running is there any chance of Will Henessie comming back into it?

[Asbjørn]

Dude, what rock did you hide under?

[ProfPotts]

I didn't realise the QZ was back up and running is there any chance of Will Henessie comming back into it?

Most certainly! Masters needs as many henchmen associates as he can get... ::devil

Will was with the guys testing biosuits, right? I'll try to post something for him sometime tonight.

[ProfPotts]

... Reacting in some opposing fashion, of course, may be your instinct as a player, but hopefully you'll see that doing so would pretty much just be abusing player Vs character knowledge - Vinnie doesn't know about dice pools & the like, all he knows is that the guy seems to be playing it straight...

... So, 'abusing player Vs character knowledge' it is then..? ::rolleyes

Ho hum... I can but try...

[Asbjørn]

This has nothing to do with knowledge abuse. Vinnie is paranoid about people messing with his head and is not giving the bastard the chance if he can help it. He tried warning him, and Vaughn didn't listen. His mistake.

Frankly, I don't even understand what knowledge I have to abuse. What is it I'm supposed to know that Vinnie doesn't..?

You told me Vinnie knows this guy always ends up making people do as he wants. The Ghost is strong-willed and he knows it, but some things you just don't gamble with. To Vinnie, his mind and self control is in greater danger than his life here, and a pre-emptive strike is the best way to be safe.

[ProfPotts]

Okay - I guess I failed to explain things properly again.

My point was that, even taking everything you've just said about Vinnie's paranoia about the guy & the like into account, the guy still came across - to Vinnie - as being perfectly reasonable. You, as a player, know how dice pools & the like work - you can pretty much figure out that Adam managed to overcome any difficulty penalties associated with putting Vinnie at ease, & still managed to score plenty of successes. Vinnie, the character, knows the guy's reputation for being persuasive, but despite that, still ended up thinking what he was saying was reasonable (naturally so - it's not like Vinnie 'feels his will slipping' or 'senses his mind being manipulated ' or anything, no more so than any of us would in a normal conversation). In essence, Vinnie has just tried to shoot a guy he thinks is perfectly reasonable (& who he knows, thanks to his own powers, is not an immediate threat) in the head. Either Vinnie is a psycho (which, I guess, is quite possible... ::unsure ), or he's reacting to your concerns as a player, rather than his concerns as a character.

The trouble is trying to get across the extent of things like Mega-Social Attributes in a prose style. Since I can't be expected to type words able to persuade all the people all the time, I have to go with writing stuff like 'Vinnie thinks the guy is perfectly reasonable'. That's not mind control, but rather a prompt as to how Vinnie is feeling about the situation - sort of like giving an actor his character's 'motivation' for a scene, but still letting him improvise the scene itself.

Now, I'm not saying that Vinnie can't go around shooting people in the head if he really wants to - just that it is, in this situation, as you've posted it, not exactly in-line with what the character is feeling about the situation. Obviously it's in-line with what the player is feeling about the situation; I'm sure if we were watching this on a film we'd all be screaming at the screen, 'Shoot him in the head, Vinnie! He's playing you!' - but then again, the 'audience' isn't getting the impact from those Mega-Social successes.

That's what I mean when I talk about player Vs character knowledge - you (&, I suspect, anyone else reading the story) know that Adam is a tricky bastard who's trying it on. Vinnie, on the other hand, knows the guy's reputation, but now he's met him is pretty sure that he's being reasonable in what he's saying. Again, apart from little side-prompts it's hard to get the impact of Mega-Socials across: he's not using any powers or enhancements, the only 'game mechanics' effect is a bucket load of dice to roll on Social checks. I guess I could just start listing how many Social successes people get, but I much prefer to try to keep things like that 'behind the curtain' & allow the story to flow as smoothly as possible.

So, yeah, feel free to have Vinnie shoot the guy if that's what you really think he'd do in that situation: I won't stop you - I'll just remain a little less than convinced... ::sly

[phoenix]

::huh There's a difference between the Storyteller saying, "This Adam sounds like a good guy," and "Your character decides that this Adam is a good guy." I must side with Asbjorn on this one.

Clearly there was a misunderstanding right around the line, "Don’t try to make any suggestions, don’t try any deals, and don’t even think about sweet talking me. If you do, I will kill you. Capisce?" Prof had no way to know that what Vinnie actually meant was, "Don't say anything at all, or I will kill you." Neither did Adam, for that matter.

Just my casual opinion; TIAYM. ::smile

[knave]

I dunno about this guys. All that stuff with Guy and Nezumi - Prof didn't tell me that the Samurai was being messed with through mega-socials - I (the player) just inferred it from tone and played it so that Guy lost his way a little more easily than he might have otherwise given his (admittedly somewhat faux) world wearyness.

In the end this is a story, and you've gotta let yourself be immersed in it, and ultimately trust the narrator to bring you out the other end with some kinda of satisfying closure.

On the other hand you might want to be the guy who plays it so paranoid that he kills people BECAUSE he feels he can trust them. Someone who acts on his researched information before his senses. I guess that's a valid character concept, but it'd be way more believable after some sort of really messed up experience (actually this could well be it).

[Alex Green]

Without knowing the die rolls it's tough to be sure, but I suspect Vinny got rolled. Same as Alex with that sand-babe. Granted, it's less of an extreme case... but there are also some other factors.

Does Vinny really want to lead his family into a war with these people, or could a deal be made where he and his is given a piece of the action or they even back off? Then there's slave girl, without the right drug, she's going to die. Vinny doesn't have the right drug, Mr. Mega-Social guy does. Then there's the matter of blood vengenace to revenge, chances are really good that this guy didn't do the deed himself, but he knows who did and might even be able to hand him over if the deal were right. Also if I were Mr. Mega-Social I'd put a bomb on Ms Cable so if Vinny teleported her away it'd go off.

On the other hand I'm also an 'over think the issue' type of guy and that just killed a million people.

[archer]

Prof, because Ghost's and Adam's actions will definitely affect what The Stranger does next, I have to ask: How much of this bit has he witnessed? I know he had to do some sneaking around and climbing rigging during the whole time Ghost has been talking to Adam, and I'd rather not jump the gun(lol...so to speak) if there's no way Stranger could possibly affect this scene.

[Asbjørn]

Okay - I guess I failed to explain things properly again.

Apparently. Or I read you wrong. Let's clear it up, anyway. ::smile

My point was that, even taking everything you've just said about Vinnie's paranoia about the guy & the like into account, the guy still came across - to Vinnie - as being perfectly reasonable. You, as a player, know how dice pools & the like work - you can pretty much figure out that Adam managed to overcome any difficulty penalties associated with putting Vinnie at ease, & still managed to score plenty of successes. Vinnie, the character, knows the guy's reputation for being persuasive, but despite that, still ended up thinking what he was saying was reasonable (naturally so - it's not like Vinnie 'feels his will slipping' or 'senses his mind being manipulated ' or anything, no more so than any of us would in a normal conversation). In essence, Vinnie has just tried to shoot a guy he thinks is perfectly reasonable (& who he knows, thanks to his own powers, is not an immediate threat) in the head. Either Vinnie is a psycho (which, I guess, is quite possible... ::unsure ), or he's reacting to your concerns as a player, rather than his concerns as a character.

The trouble is trying to get across the extent of things like Mega-Social Attributes in a prose style. Since I can't be expected to type words able to persuade all the people all the time, I have to go with writing stuff like 'Vinnie thinks the guy is perfectly reasonable'. That's not mind control, but rather a prompt as to how Vinnie is feeling about the situation - sort of like giving an actor his character's 'motivation' for a scene, but still letting him improvise the scene itself.

Now, I'm not saying that Vinnie can't go around shooting people in the head if he really wants to - just that it is, in this situation, as you've posted it, not exactly in-line with what the character is feeling about the situation. Obviously it's in-line with what the player is feeling about the situation; I'm sure if we were watching this on a film we'd all be screaming at the screen, 'Shoot him in the head, Vinnie! He's playing you!' - but then again, the 'audience' isn't getting the impact from those Mega-Social successes.

That's what I mean when I talk about player Vs character knowledge - you (&, I suspect, anyone else reading the story) know that Adam is a tricky bastard who's trying it on. Vinnie, on the other hand, knows the guy's reputation, but now he's met him is pretty sure that he's being reasonable in what he's saying. Again, apart from little side-prompts it's hard to get the impact of Mega-Socials across: he's not using any powers or enhancements, the only 'game mechanics' effect is a bucket load of dice to roll on Social checks. I guess I could just start listing how many Social successes people get, but I much prefer to try to keep things like that 'behind the curtain' & allow the story to flow as smoothly as possible.

I agree that descriptions are better, and most of the time there's no problem. But here it seems I read you wrong. Or rather, I didn't, at first.

First I got the right impression, that what you described were Vinnie's feelings and that it should dictate his next actions. The fact that there are no actual 'powers' at work doesn't matter. What I read was that Vaughn's words changed Vinnie's mind, quantum or not.

Now, I didn't like that one bit, so I asked, just to be sure. Then I got the impression I'd misunderstood, and that although Vaughn's words were convincing, this didn't necessarily mean they'd overcome Vinnie's scepticism. So I posted according to that impression, reasoning that Vinnie would be smart, strong-willed and paranoid enough to prefer jumping the gun to disappointing his grandfather. And now I stand accused of cheating. Whoopie.

So, yeah, feel free to have Vinnie shoot the guy if that's what you really think he'd do in that situation: I won't stop you - I'll just remain a little less than convinced... ::sly

Ok, let me explain my point of view, cause there are few things I hate more when it comes to roleplaying than being accused of abusing knowledge. ::smile

Points in favor of wasting Vaughn (in Vinnie's mind, not mine)

- He's a dangerous nova with powers and abilities Vinnie suspects he can't defend himself against.

- There's no reason to believe Vaughn will play fair with Vinnie, so even if he does make a deal, he's likely to break it.

- Vaughn is holding all the cards except the element of surprise.

- He's the enemy in a war Vinnie's been told - by the man he respects and loves above all others - he can't talk his way out of.

- He's an evil bastard and has it coming. ::biggrin

Points against wasting Vaughn (again, Vinnie's mind)

- Vaughn is a damn persuasive guy

- He might have useful info

- Ms Cable's life might hang on Vinnie playing it nice

Going into the Zanibar, Vinnie knows he'll probably be out-gunned. As he hears Slither's report and recognizes Vaughn, he knows what kind of trouble he's in, that Vaughn's attack will be sneaky and hard to spot, and that when it comes, he won't have a chance to react to it before it's too late. In short, Vinnie's very high strung.

Adding to that, Vinnie has been corrected all along by his family superiors for talking and reasoning too much. This is war. They muscled in on family turf, they killed our people, they even killed Vinnie's cousin. There's no way a self-respecting low-level mobster can deal with someone like that. Vaughn and all his friends have got to die.

So, these things considered, you're still telling me Vinnie feels he can reason with this guy, even as early as I stated him raising the rifle? That Vaughn's words have put him at ease and he really thinks the best way to solve this is just talking to this man?

If that's the case I guess I'll grin and bear it, and go back and edit my post.

Ironically, if you hadn't included this part...

Adam's words seem extremely reasonable to Vinnie, & nothing strikes him as particularly dangerous or even 'unnatural' - the guy just makes a lot of sense... ::devil

..I probably wouldn't have reacted so violently. Something about the way you phrase it - and the devil smiley - that doesn't exactly inspire trust.. ::biggrin

[ProfPotts]

Points in favor of wasting Vaughn (in Vinnie's mind, not mine)

- He's a dangerous nova with powers and abilities Vinnie suspects he can't defend himself against.

- There's no reason to believe Vaughn will play fair with Vinnie, so even if he does make a deal, he's likely to break it.

- Vaughn is holding all the cards except the element of surprise.

- He's the enemy in a war Vinnie's been told - by the man he respects and loves above all others - he can't talk his way out of.

- He's an evil bastard and has it coming.

Going into the Zanibar, Vinnie knows he'll probably be out-gunned. As he hears Slither's report and recognizes Vaughn, he knows what kind of trouble he's in, that Vaughn's attack will be sneaky and hard to spot, and that when it comes, he won't have a chance to react to it before it's too late. In short, Vinnie's very high strung.

Adding to that, Vinnie has been corrected all along by his family superiors for talking and reasoning too much. This is war. They muscled in on family turf, they killed our people, they even killed Vinnie's cousin. There's no way a self-respecting low-level mobster can deal with someone like that. Vaughn and all his friends have got to die.

So, these things considered, you're still telling me Vinnie feels he can reason with this guy, even as early as I stated him raising the rifle? That Vaughn's words have put him at ease and he really thinks the best way to solve this is just talking to this man

Yes & no - mostly yes: like I tried (& failed, sorry) to explain - this line...

Adam's words seem extremely reasonable to Vinnie, & nothing strikes him as particularly dangerous or even 'unnatural' - the guy just makes a lot of sense...

... was meant as a prompt as to how Vinnie's feeling, even taking everything you mention above into account. That fact that you chose to view that line as a cue to have Vinnie blow the guy's brains out means that I obviously failed to get that point across. Sure, the line reeks of mistrust to us players reading it - in fact it's meant to: in the same way that the occassional glance at the camera in a movie can bring the audience in on the joke, I tend to use stuff like that to imply, 'Yes I know we all know this guy's a manipulative bastard...' - but I was hoping that it suggested that Vinnie felt otherwise. Maybe I should have put it in OOC quotes? ::confused

I say 'yes & no' above, because I'm not trying to dictate that Vinnie has to, '... think the best way to solve this is just talking to this man...' - he doesn't have to think that, he just recognises the sense of what Adam is saying. Now he could react by talking to him, or politely declining with an explaination why, or insist on the prisoner exchange first, or any of a myriad of possible ways people could react in the situation. Painting the stage with the guy's brains, though, is pretty much the opposite of what sane people do when they hear someone suggest something they feel is both reasonable, & makes a lot of sense (in an unthreatening manner). That, at least, I hope I'm not alone on... ::wink

You asked earlier if you needed to spend a Willpower to have Vinnie resist, & I said, 'resist what?'. That's still true: Vinnie would have no reason to particularly want to 'resist' anything here. You as the player probably do, sure - but Willpower isn't Dramatic Editing, it's not used 'outside the box' of the game world (so to speak). If I allowed you to blow a Willpower to pop one in the guy's cranium then I set a terrible precedent - i.e. Willpower can be used to act out of character. It can't, not in my book - 'resisting instinctual responses' is as close as it gets but that's a somewhat different kettle of fish (you can, for example, spend Willpower to not run away when you're scared, or to resist taking a drink if you're a recovering alcoholic). Manipulation (Mega or not) is, by its nature, insidious. Even if Vinnie is determined to kill Adam as soon as he 'tries to manipulate him' then he'll still be waiting for the event to occur... unless it's overt hypnosis or something, then the whole point of Manipulation is that (if it works) you don't recognise that it's happening.

On an only slightly related note: as soon as Vinnie decides to pop Adam, all his various 'you're going to die Vinnie!' senses would start blaring in his head... he is in a room with at least half a dozen armed Templars, after all - & they all have held actions... ::devil

Prof, because Ghost's and Adam's actions will definitely affect what The Stranger does next, I have to ask: How much of this bit has he witnessed? I know he had to do some sneaking around and climbing rigging during the whole time Ghost has been talking to Adam, and I'd rather not jump the gun(lol...so to speak) if there's no way Stranger could possibly affect this scene.

I think we better clear this mess up first...

... Right, now I'm off for me tea... ::biggrin

[Asbjørn]

... was meant as a prompt as to how Vinnie's feeling, even taking everything you mention above into account. That fact that you chose to view that line as a cue to have Vinnie blow the guy's brains out means that I obviously failed to get that point across. Sure, the line reeks of mistrust to us players reading it - in fact it's meant to: in the same way that the occassional glance at the camera in a movie can bring the audience in on the joke, I tend to use stuff like that to imply, 'Yes I know we all know this guy's a manipulative bastard...' - but I was hoping that it suggested that Vinnie felt otherwise. Maybe I should have put it in OOC quotes? ::confused

It did suggest Vinnie felt otherwise, which is why I asked if this was something he could fight or not. As for whether you should have put it differently... I don't think so. Like I said, in general that kind of line works perfectly fine. It just confused me a bit, and then your ooc answer to my question confused me a bit more. Shit happens.

You asked earlier if you needed to spend a Willpower to have Vinnie resist, & I said, 'resist what?'. That's still true: Vinnie would have no reason to particularly want to 'resist' anything here. You as the player probably do, sure - but Willpower isn't Dramatic Editing, it's not used 'outside the box' of the game world (so to speak). If I allowed you to blow a Willpower to pop one in the guy's cranium then I set a terrible precedent - i.e. Willpower can be used to act out of character. It can't, not in my book - 'resisting instinctual responses' is as close as it gets but that's a somewhat different kettle of fish (you can, for example, spend Willpower to not run away when you're scared, or to resist taking a drink if you're a recovering alcoholic). Manipulation (Mega or not) is, by its nature, insidious. Even if Vinnie is determined to kill Adam as soon as he 'tries to manipulate him' then he'll still be waiting for the event to occur... unless it's overt hypnosis or something, then the whole point of Manipulation is that (if it works) you don't recognise that it's happening.

Here's a point where we disagree. It's a general disagreement, though, not just related to this specific incidence. In my book, what I would like to have Vinnie spend willpower for isn't to 'resist an instinctual response', but to 'not be swayed by the other party's argument'. Hell, in my mind - rolled successes not taken into account - shooting him is the instinctual response! ::biggrin

Stubborn people don't listen to reason, and Vinnie is stubborn. He's going in there thinking 'Whatever you do, Vinnie, don't listen to this guy'. Spending willpower to resist it sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Or at least his willpower should play a part in the resolution of the conflict, which I'm sure it did.

Just to be clear: I'm not trying to find any errors in the way you handled that particular dice roll. ::wink

On an only slightly related note: as soon as Vinnie decides to pop Adam, all his various 'you're going to die Vinnie!' senses would start blaring in his head... he is in a room with at least half a dozen armed Templars, after all - & they all have held actions... ::devil

Well, true. Guess he'll have to port first, then shoot him, then. ::cool

Stand by for edited post. It's gonna take me more time than a cuppa to change my mindset, though...

[ProfPotts]

Stubborn people don't listen to reason, and Vinnie is stubborn. He's going in there thinking 'Whatever you do, Vinnie, don't listen to this guy'.

Sure - but that shouldn't make him immune to Social interaction (I'm pretty sure you're not actually saying it should).

Spending willpower to resist it sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Or at least his willpower should play a part in the resolution of the conflict, which I'm sure it did.

Naturally his Willpower played a part - but spending Willpower is a whole different ballgame: it's an active, as opposed to a passive, use of the Trait. Spending Willpower represents an effort of will - the character has to actively be trying to spend it. While you as a player may see a jarring dichotomy between Vinnie's mindset before meeting Adam & Vinnie's mindset having met Adam, Vinnie the character wouldn't.

We've all experienced, I'm sure, in Real Life™ those incidents where we go in expecting & thinking one thing, but come out with a totally different mindset. Usually there's no sudden flashpoint between one mindset & the other, it's a natural, even unnoticed, change. Sure, this usually takes a while - but just as Mega-Strength is a vast improvement over baseline Strength, so is Mega-Manipulation a vast improvement over mundane Manipulation. You meet a guy like Adam & you feel different about him right off the bat - it's not even a verbal-only thing: it's mannerisms & body language, & all that stuff too - he's just that sort of guy (hence Slither's reaction when just seeing him... ::blush ::devil ) - but that doesn't feel any less of a natural process than the slower mundance effects of Manipulation.

[Asbjørn]

Right. Post edited to a more peaceful version. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

[Alex Green]

150 kilometers.... I wonder what the edge looks like? Was everything pushed away, or converted into dark matter, or shattered by a shockwave...

[Alex Green]

RE: Killing OMA

The real problem with killing him is that you guys are there to get your masks back. If the way you do that is by killing the guy who took them, then don't expect to be unmasked in the future.

[archer]

RE: Killing OMA

The real problem with killing him is that you guys are there to get your masks back. If the way you do that is by killing the guy who took them, then don't expect to be unmasked in the future.

Joe didn't get unmasked by OMA.

[Alex Green]

Joe didn't get unmasked by OMA.

If it was a team thing then he did.

Or if you want to be detailed, Verse and our flyer were unmasked by OMA.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Sorry all, work and the little lady have eaten all my time these past few months (this week included). I'll be able to reenter the game from monday if that's ok.

[Prince of Boredom]

Wow, so I am really not looking forward to Thunderbolt duking it out with Hannibal again. I was pretty lucky the first time, I don't think it'll be that easy this time.... ::ohmy ::unsure

[ezekiel]

Just so everyone knows,

I'm going to be sailing from from June 5th for a month and will be away from a net connection during that time. I'll have a lot more time when I'm back though, in theory at least.

Hopefully that gives me time to end the underwater incident for some offscreen time for Terry and Grok should be perfectly happy to follow orders if he isn't killed in the meantime anyway ::wink

Gonna post for Akaji in a bit but I'll try to keep him busy with admin/president work for now. Gonna be quite busy until I leave.