Aberrant: Quantum Zero - QZ - game mechanics

[Alex Green]

A. A rules question related to the above: If you have a eufiber suit with 5 quantum stored and Clone, does that suit and stored quantum also clone?  Per the rules, all equipment is cloned.

You have only one quantum pool, thus so does your Eufiber.

Say you have 5 points, fully charged. All suits provide 5/5 soak. One clone spends one, now all provide 4/4.

[ProfPotts]

3. My recommendation would be to allow the mulitple uses, but only use the amount of dots you have in the power (ie. with Disrupt 5, use 2 dots on one opponent and 3 dots on another).

Wouldn't that be like getting the MIRV Extra for free?

I agree that the power rating purchased for each power should be an indication of it's overall power (duh! ::smile ) - which is why multiple uses of a single power / aspect of a power looks a bit dodgey. Again taking the TK example: if I can activate multiple uses of the power, what's to stop me from lifting something that's normally far beyond the capacity of my power by lifting one end with TK use 1, the middle with TK use 2, & the other end with TK use 3? Sure it costs a few more QP, but I've tripled my effective power (without having purchased a power rating three times higher). That seems a little too open to abuse for my liking.

I see the point about an MR node being able to activate & maintain many powers at once - but each of those powers has been purchased seperately (except in the case of a simultaneous use of differing aspects of a suite power - or something similar).

The issue now appears to become how to define an 'aspect' of a power. The various Techniques from the suite powers are obviously different aspects, & can be used simultaneously with each other (as specified in the books). Would (again using the TK example) lifting one car, then lifting another car at the same time, also count as 'different aspects' of the power? My instinct tells me 'no' - because if we follow that logic then we again get to the 'power multiplying' problem highlighted above.

I think that the comparison between: standing without falling / having one set of legs - & - Maintaining powers / having an MR node; should actually be between: standing / legs - & - Maintaining powers / having a power rating. The individual power ratings a character has represent what he can do / his 'nova' biological (or Quantum) make-up, the MR node by itself doesn't really enable the character to do anything. The MR node is simply the generator to fuel the nova's powers - more like your heart pumping blood to your legs than the legs themselves - the power ratings your character has are his Quantum 'limbs' with which he can actually reach out & do stuff.

[Nullifier]

Again taking the TK example: if I can activate multiple uses of the power, what's to stop me from lifting something that's normally far beyond the capacity of my power by lifting one end with TK use 1, the middle with TK use 2, & the other end with TK use 3? Sure it costs a few more QP, but I've tripled my effective power (without having purchased a power rating three times higher). That seems a little too open to abuse for my liking.

Erm. O.k., I get it... But let's look at what that would look like to see if it flows well.. Say a nova, with quantum 5, dex 4, and telekinesis 2, for instance, is trying to do something ridiculous, like uproot a skyscraper, for example. At the max amount of successes that nova could achieve, used 3 times consecuatively, and spending a grand total of 21QPs is 19,200 tons... but it'd take 6 turns and 3 Willpower to do, at least, and the chances of rolling 33 consecutive successes is infintessimal. With an average of a little less than 6 successes per roll+max, that'd only be 'bout 300,000 kg, or 300 tons, and it'd still take 6 turns, 3 Willpower, and cost 21QPs.... And it'd only last 'bout 8 more turns after the effect got going unless the nova had a huge pool of QPs... Or the scene if out of combat. I have no issuses with a telekinetic doing that. It'd certainly explain the types of power-strain induced taint the book talks about cropping up more frequently in things like Utopia's terraforming projects... C'mon, you can roll to regain QPs, but only if you're not afraid of some taint. Do it alot, and you'll be getting it for sure. Besides, if you want to expend that much time and effort on it, you're a nova... People worship 'em as gods; I have a character that can open warp gates to Mercury without nearly so much effort. So go ahead. Why not, Prof? Seems 'bout right to me. ::devilangel After all, a nova with the Lifter enhancement and Mega-Str 3, for example, could lift 400,000kg or 400 tons, simply by spending 4 QPs. Maintenence powers tend to be more expensive, more difficult to use, and more specialized than other types of powers, but in their own right, if you push it, they can be fairly powerful. At Mega-Str 2, Node 3, spending 12 QPs, with the Lifter Enhancement, a nova could lift... 40,960,000kg, or 40,960 tons. TKers, eat your hearts out unless you've got a high Mega-Dex score or wanna Max it all the time. ::tongue ::bigsmile

[brilyn]

I would voice my opinion as option 'B'.

In fact, I would go further.

I would say that (with one notable exception) maintaining a power is like *breathing*: no concious effort required.

The one notable exception, is extending the duration, ie paying the maintenance cost, as that is a judgement that needs to be exercised, therefore the nova needs to be concious to do it.

Other than that, I'm with Nullifier with this. Well, I share his opinion, at least.... ::wink

[ProfPotts]

Just because Mega-Str + Lifter is better at lifting stuff than TK it doesn't negate the fact that a TKer using his power on the same object 2 or more times is exerting more force on that object than his power rating would indicate is possible.

Just because people worship Novas as 'gods' doesn't make them so. Some people worship David Beckham as a 'god', but I still doubt his divinity... ::tongue

Our Nova TKer could only Max his power once per scene in any case, so he'd not be wasting QP on trying that. Still, with the Quantum 5, Dex + TK 6 (we'll say he gets 3 successes) = 8 successes example: he can normally lift 10,000 kg, at a cost of 2 QP. Now, he's got a base of 30 QP, so he does it 15 times. That's 150,000 kg he can lift. Sure, it's not as much as some other powers, or even as much as better TK (which soon starts doubling mass per success), but it's still more than his power rating would indicate he should be able to lift - lots more in fact. It goes beyond the scope of the character - he's getting something for nothing.

With the Warp thing - the two can't be compared, since they work on different scales entirely.

Yes - some powers seem more powerful than others, but it's in how you use them that the differences tell. TK can't lift as well as Mega-Str + Lifter, but can do so at range, & can do so for more than 'one feat of strength'. What's best all depends on the circumstances.

Again, all Maintenance duration powers should have the effects of being such a power applied equally. If our TKer can 'stack' for mass, then our Flyer should be able to 'stack' for speed, or our Force Field user for Soak - which all leads to a broken game.

[ProfPotts]

I would say that (with one notable exception) maintaining a power is like *breathing*: no concious effort required.

Wouldn't that still be closer to option "A"? If you're seperated from your lungs your breathing suffers - if you leave the range of the power then shouldn't that also suffer?

"A" is 'no more effort than breathing', "B" is more than that, in that it actually seperates the power's effect from the Nova that generated it - more like (er... desperately searches for a reasonable metaphor... ::confused ) "spitting" than "breathing" - once the power's expelled it doesn't matter what happens to the Nova.

Again, with the "breathing" metaphor - you only have the one set of lungs, right? You can't 'double-up' & process twice as much oxygen by thinking really hard about it - you can breathe or not breathe, & vary your breathing rate by as much as your capacity allows, but you can't exceed that capacity.

[Nullifier]

Now, he's got a base of 30 QP, so he does it 15 times. That's 150,000 kg he can lift. Sure, it's not as much as some other powers, or even as much as better TK (which soon starts doubling mass per success), but it's still more than his power rating would indicate he should be able to lift - lots more in fact. It goes beyond the scope of the character - he's getting something for nothing.

I don't think so. Look at how much such a thing would wear him out. Sure, it goes beyond what he can do at a moment's notice, but given some time, it's not that big of a deal. So the nova spends about a half a minute in intense, difficult concentration, expending every last energy he's got to lift this thing, which he can now carry around for ten or fifteen minutes, or however long the ST rules our now exhausted nova can maintain the effect.

Again, all Maintenance duration powers should have the effects of being such a power applied equally. If our TKer can 'stack' for mass, then our Flyer should be able to 'stack' for speed, or our Force Field user for Soak - which all leads to a broken game.

Again, I don't think either thing would unbalance the game, and I'm even pretty sure that they make sense, depending on how the power works. For instance, if our proposed flier flew by say, creating plasma propellant, 'stacking' the power, as you put it, would be the equivalent of stepping on the gas to accelerate, and since each instance must be maintained seperately, the analogy exenteds even further, as continued use at higher speeds drains the novas QPs or gas tank. The same goes for Forcefield, and any other Maintenence power, so long as it's capable of it. It may not be possible, for example, to simple increase speed during Flight be spending QPs, if your flight is based upon actually sliding you through space. Now, this has the advantage that it's not dependant on a propellant, but simply intensifying the sliding effect won't make you go any faster. It make take a bit more imagination and understanding on behalf of players and STs, but I think it's worth defining each individual nova's powers so as to understand how the various rules and principles may apply to them.

[ProfPotts]

So - you say you should be able to 'stack' Maintenance powers, but not other powers (say, for example, Instant powers)?

A quick look at the maths of Q-Bolt Vs stacked Force Field should tell us why that's a Bad Idea™ - & kinda' proves the point about a 'broken game' I think... ::wink

[phoenix]

I'm all for force field stacking, Prof ::smile

But seriously, there's already an in-game method of "stepping on the gas": just max out the power.

And just because you can do it with cars doesn't mean you can do it with novas. Not that there's a whole lot a car can do that a nova can't, but you know what I mean.

[Nullifier]

phoenix Posted on Jun 18 2003, 01:36 PM

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I'm all for force field stacking, Prof 

But seriously, there's already an in-game method of \"stepping on the gas\": just max out the power.

And just because you can do it with cars doesn't mean you can do it with novas. Not that there's a whole lot a car can do that a nova can't, but you know what I mean. 

ProfPotts Posted on Jun 18 2003, 12:51 PM

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So - you say you should be able to 'stack' Maintenance powers, but not other powers (say, for example, Instant powers)?

A quick look at the maths of Q-Bolt Vs stacked Force Field should tell us why that's a Bad Idea™ - & kinda' proves the point about a 'broken game' I think...

Alrighty then. Both valid points. Let me restate something I had pointed out before. The problem with the idea of stacking FFs, Flight, or Q-Bolts versus the idea of Maintaining various instances of a Maintenence power such as TK, Disorient, or Disrupt is that the first three are doubling up against the same exact target, whereas the latter are working against different targets. So while I suppose it'd be possible to use various different shapes and sizes of the Wall Extra for FF at once, in different places, for instance, but 'stacking' them one on top of another or one in front of another wouldn't necessarily combine the defensive potential. So while I can't use Disrupt twice against the same nova's same exact power twice without the first use negating the second use, it should be possible for me to, while Maintaining the first Disrupt, attempt to Disrupt another of that Nova's powers, after paying the my QPs, at +1 diff., and resisted again, as per the rules. I have no problem of someone using many Q-Bolts in one turn, under the Multiple Action rules, so long as they pay for it, take their penalties(or have Quickness), and have sufficent Node to use that many QPs in a single turn. It's almost like having MIRV without paying for it. ::tongue ::wink ::thumbsup

[Nullifier]

In any case, unless the Prof chooses to change his rulings, we may be beating a dead horse for the time being. I've said my peace, I'm ready to get the Prof's final rulings on this stuff and move on with the game. If anyone has anything else to say, I think it's time to speak up. ::smiley5 ::thumbsup Otherwise, I humbly and eagerly await the Prof's ruling no matter what it may be. ::cool ::bigsmile ::thumbsup ::smiley5

[phoenix]

Makes sense to me Nullifier, but what happens if I activate force field and someone else activates an affect others force field on me? There may be canon for this that I don't know about; I'm just trying to follow the distinctions. It doesn't really matter to Glacier.

[brilyn]

Where I stand with TK (in fact all powers): they don't stack with themselves.

If you FF yourself 3 times, it's up 3 times, but you only gain the benefit of the most potent version (think 'ring the bell' feat of strength at a carnival. You can hit it 3 times in a row, but they don't add up. And yes, this is a LOOSE analogy....).

Ditto if you TK something 3 times. Each time is like you trying to lift that object independant of the other attempts. You take the best result. But you can also lift multiple things. And yes, Lifter beats the hell out of this, but a guy with good TK can drop 5 tanks on you at once, all lifted seperately.... ::wink

And I still consider this an autonomous thing. If you walk away from the effect, you can't maintain it. You can only maintain it as long as you're in the area to pump power into it.

While this is slightly contrary to what I had written previously, it sits better in my mind.

Enough with analogies!

You fire off FF. Your Quantuum node fecks with the Quantuum substructure of the universe in a particular area. That area stays fecked up until the energy maintaining the weirdness runs out. If you are still in range, you can put more energy into it just as it runs out (maintenance). If you are out of range, you can't, and the effect ends.

As far as I can see, this is the most consistant 'across the board' interpretation I can think of.

But then I would say that, wouldn't I? ::wink

And regarding someone else hitting you with a FF while you have one up: They stack.

The mechanics may be the same, but the powers are likely to be quite different.

A shield of flame (made by FlameBoy) can only get so hot, but when applied to Tank Man (with the body of uber-steel), it protects him even more than Tank Man usually is.

[phoenix]

How does TK work, exactly? Do you have to spend quantum each time you try to lift something, or can you just spend the quantum and lift as much as you want as long as you maintain the effect?

A shield of flame (made by FlameBoy) can only get so hot, but when applied to Tank Man (with the body of uber-steel), it protects him even more than Tank Man usually is.

Okay, but wouldn't that imply that if Tank Man could think of an excuse to have a flame-based power, he could buy two FFs and have them stack, were he so inclined?

Could he do that anyway?

Tank Man's canon is a little rusty..

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Ways of stacking force field powers:

1: force field (duh)

2: armour that's set as a force field (still only armor though)

3: various suite shields; molecular mastery: second skin for example.

Bottom line as much as you'd like to you just shouldn't let a character buy the same power more than once just by making it a different energy type. It makes it too cheap to have a super soak character ( as if it wasn't already), for example, the Invulnerability power: A player buys Invulnerability against say bullets, then gets broad category extra "physical attacks". Then decides to by the power again to defend against fire then upgrades by getting broad category "energy attacks". Then decides he wants to protect against mental attacks, buys it again and then adds broad category again vs. all Willpower resist rolls for example (not sure how to apply broad category to mental deffense).

If a player wants to have supper deffense have them look at various level 3 powers (body morph, matter chameleon, etc.) along with the standard deffensive powers and the extra's, if they're not satisfied by what they see then too bad or let them design a power, and when they come back with ultimate low cost, super soak power you can simply tell them "no" ::rolleyes .

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Ok now a question about super sonic speedster characters. How is the sonic boom damage determined for those using enhanced movement with thier hypermovement to break the sound barrier?

Rules for Hypermovement in reference to sonic booms are "consider this effect the equivalent of causing damage equal damage to the Mega-Strength enhancement Thunderclap along the characters backward trajectory, but substituting dots in Hypermovement for dots in Mega-Strength." Aberrant page 203.

Nothing is said about enh.movement, ie. if a character has Hypermovement 2 (1000Km/h) and Enhanced Movement (Mega-Dexterity 1), he can move at up to 2000Km/h (supersonic), same as Hypermovement 4, is the sonic boom damage still equivalent to a Mega-Strength 4 Thunderclap? Or if that same character has Mega-Dexterity 2 pulling the speed up to 6000Km/h does he do more damage than a character with just Hypermovement 5 (2500km/h)? If so is the damage determined as +1 Mega-Strength per 500km/h?

[Alex Green]

There are no rules for using "Enhanced movement" out of combat.

I don't remember what the speed of sound is off hand, but on a previous conversation someone claimed that you would need H-move 4 before breaking the sound barrier.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Speed of sound is around 1860Km/h, Hypermovement 4 is 2000Km/h.

Using Enhanced movement for a scene costs 3 QPoints, and in it's description it is applied to Hypermovement.

[Nullifier]

Nothing is said about enh.movement, ie. if a character has Hypermovement 2 (1000Km/h) and Enhanced Movement (Mega-Dexterity 1), he can move at up to 2000Km/h (supersonic), same as Hypermovement 4, is the sonic boom damage still equivalent to a Mega-Strength 4 Thunderclap? Or if that same character has Mega-Dexterity 2 pulling the speed up to 6000Km/h does he do more damage than a character with just Hypermovement 5 (2500km/h)? If so is the damage determined as +1 Mega-Strength per 500km/h?

And if so, what, if any, is the upper limit of such damage? ::shocked ::blink ::crazy ::bigsmile ::devilangel ::wink

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Top speed achievable for a hyperrunner or swimmer* (not including APG's 6+ mega-atts and maxing) is 15000Km/h so if there is no limit to damage it's the equivalent of 30 mega-strength or 150 damage.

* fliers can fo faster if they have a high flight rating aswell as high hypermovement.

[Archer21]

Hehe...yeah...runners and swimmers can hit like Mach 8. ::shocked Wheeeeeee! ::smiley1

One of these days, I'll build the uber-speedster. You will all rue the day! ::hehe ::biggrin

Mega Dex 5(Enhanced Movement), Hypermovement 5....oh, and just enough Taint to make him look like a giant human-shaped cookie!

I call him: THE GINGERBREAD MAN!!!! ::ninja

[Ayre el KaBeer]

LOL!!! ::laugh

Just did some number crunching, the ubersprinter (M-dex5, enh.movement, Hyper 5) is hitting 2100m per action (turn, 3 seconds) in combat or 700m per second. 700 x 60 =42000 x60 = 2520000m/h or 2520Km/h supersonic in combat!!! ::devil

I've failed mathematics so please tell me if I'm wrong.

[Archer21]

No, that's about right. You think that's bad...now add in the difficulty to hit the bastard while he's moving at full speed. Muahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!! ::devil

[Ayre el KaBeer]

2520Km/h supersonic in combat!!!

Seems like a hyperstrike for every attack at that speed, doesn't it? And a deffinate check for knockback.

[brilyn]

Okay, but wouldn't that imply that if Tank Man could think of an excuse to have a flame-based power, he could buy two FFs and have them stack, were he so inclined? 

Yup.

But he now has to spend xp/nova points on two seperate pools of powers.

Again, you are focusing on the mechanics.

The FF power is simply the mechanics of how a shield of fire works. I don't see why a shield of fire won't stack with a shield of entropic energy, or a shield of light.

I don't see the issue of someone taking Invulnerability 3 times for Physical, Energy, and Mental, and getting 6 soak/automatic WP successes per dot in each seperate power.

Bar someone starting with 200 Nova points, there is no such thing as an unbeatable nova. So someones got a char with a soak of 60? Big deal. Hit them with someone with 5 QB (armour piercing), 5 Dex, 5MDex. Max for Accuracy (Q5), and on average they will get 10 successes (2 per 5 dice, 40%), which will drop soak by 18 to 42. Granted that means that the QB guy only gets 1 die, but even without the Max he still gets 1 die. Taking 2-3 shots around means that the person with the uber soak gets chipped away each round. If the QB guy has friends (which he should) then uber-soak guy is quite beatable. Especially since he's spent EVERYTHING on soak. He's not going to have much in the way of damage output.

Alternatively, hit him with some Aggravated damage, and watch the player break down into tears..... ::wink

I really really don't see the problem with letting different powers stack, even if they use the same mechanic. I wouldn't let similar powers stack, even if they used different mechanics.

For example, someone has Molecular Mastery (like Derek), and occasionally uses the Solid Skin power to buff up. Derek then takes Forcefield to represent his Solid Skin sub-power blossoming into a full power. Now, we have two different mechanics, same power. I would not let those stack.

However, if Derek learnt Forcefield as a subconcious version of Molecular Destruction (ie all incoming physical attacks get torn appart to varying degrees as they attack), that would indeed stack with Solid Skin.

And if he took Forcefield twice, as both Solid Skin and Molecular Destruction, why wouldn't the 'destroying of incoming projectiles' stack with 'hardening the surrounding air'?

Or are we just going to whine about 'over-powered charactors'? ::wink

[Ayre el KaBeer]

For example, someone has Molecular Mastery (like Derek), and occasionally uses the Solid Skin power to buff up. Derek then takes Forcefield to represent his Solid Skin sub-power blossoming into a full power. Now, we have two different mechanics, same power. I would not let those stack.

Huh???

[brilyn]

Huh???

What are you 'huh?'ing? specifically?

[Ayre el KaBeer]

I'm gonna kick myself for this, because the same argument ca be used for using FF more than once but...

For example, someone has Molecular Mastery (like Derek), and occasionally uses the Solid Skin power to buff up. Derek then takes Forcefield to represent his Solid Skin sub-power blossoming into a full power. Now, we have two different mechanics, same power. I would not let those stack.

Activate Second Skin, then activate Forcefield and treat it as an additional layer, or a means of fortifying his second skin sort of like Super Heavy armor.

[brilyn]

Activate Second Skin, then activate Forcefield and treat it as an additional layer, or a means of fortifying his second skin sort of like Super Heavy armor. 

But the mechanic for that is already there: Armour + Super Heavy Armour.

The power is: The air around the Nova hardens, in order to deflect attacks.

The mechanics of this can be: Second Skin. Armour. Force Field. Invulnerability.

If the Nova has a power that is always on, to a high degree, they take Invulnerability.

If it's always on, to a lesser degree, but can be pumped up, they take Armour (withe the Super Heavy enhancement).

If it's something they need to turn on, but is pretty low, they take Second Skin.

If it's something they need to turn on, but is quite strong, they take Forcefield.

If it's something they need to turn on, but has 2 levels of power, they take Second Skin, and Forcefield, which do not stack.

All of these different mechanics are having the same effect. So they don't stack. You take the best while it's powered on.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Nope, that's DnD rules where you can't stack the same type of bonus, in this case all these separate powers can be stacked. A character has 2 Armor (6 soak) and 1 FF (let's say 10soak), having the FF doesn't reduce the effect of the armour, the attack has to break past that 10 weakening the attack, if it does then it has to contend with the Armor if it breaks pat the armour then you have the base soak.

In Derek's case Attack has to bust past a FF (thick layer), then the Second Skin, then whatever body armour if any, then base soak. Each time the attack hits a 'layer' it's weakened by that protective barrier's soak rating, that's whay they stack, because they're independant of each other, otherwise there is no point in buying multiple powers just pick the best suited to you. For Derek, you wouldn't bother with SS (unless he has Molecular Manipulation 5 then you'd get it anyway), as you'll pay less Qpoints for a similar duration and greater effect with FF.

[brilyn]

Nope, that's DnD rules where you can't stack the same type of bonus, in this case all these separate powers can be stacked.

Hang on there... ::smile

First, there's no \"can\" and \"can't\" here. ALL of this is opinion, as it's quite ambigous.

Second, in 3e DnD, things that use different mechanics to the same effect DO stack. A +10 Insight bonus and a +10 Luck bonus are different mechanics (Luck vs. Insight), but have the same effect (+10 to a skill).

Third, what I'm talking about is NOT a hard and fast rule, but simply how my interpretation applies. I'm not saying I'm correct, and that my explanation is 100% correct, I'm saying that mine requires the least ST interpretation and arbitration on a case-by-case basis.

A character has 2 Armor (6 soak) and 1 FF (let's say 10soak), having the FF doesn't reduce the effect of the armour, the attack has to break past that 10 weakening the attack, if it does then it has to contend with the Armor if it breaks pat the armour then you have the base soak.

See, again you're focusing on the mechanics. The mechanics are simply how the IC effects are handled by the system, so simply reeling off a load of mechanics tells you NOTHING.

The ST has to decide how his world works. The mechanics then fit within that contstruct.

As stated within the books, it does not say anywhere explicitly that you CANNOT use Forcefield 8 times on yourself and total all the soak. In fact, I'd bet good money that some people want to play that way, and more power to them.

So what we're talking about here, is how Prof wants HIS gameworld to run.

I've simply outlined how I run mine, and explained the bits that people seemed to get hung up on. If Prof wants to run it completely different, that's fine by me. So long as I'm informed, so I can plan accordingly, I'm a happy camper. ::smile

Again, simply looking as the mechanics narrows your perspective and gives you a sqewed view of the game.

The benefit of this type of game (for me, at least) is that the mechanics are almost completely gone from the system. Don't get me wrong, rolling 24 dice ROCKS! But, I like this is that it's completely descriptive. I'm unfettered by the need to search for dice and the rest.

To say that Forcefield doesn't stack with Forcefield is purely mechanical. Makes no sense.

To say that a Sheild of Fire doesn't stack with a Shield of Ice, as they negate each other, is interesting. Poor sod doesn't get the benefit of either forcefield. Maybe it turns into a Shield of Scalding Steam, which still generates soak? ST's perogative. But it's all still using the FF mechanic.

It's this simple: you think of any effect and there's almost always 2-3 different mechanics you can use to model it in the game world. So, if Mechanic A doesn't stack with Mechanic A, then I can simply take Mechanic B as well, for the same effect. At which point the ST has to start making arbitrary decisions about what Mechanics stack, and which one's don't. Which is a sucky way to play, imo.

[Alex Green]

Are we going to let DMD activate bodymorph twice and stack the results? ::shocked ::devilangel

[brilyn]

Are we going to let DMD activate bodymorph twice and stack the results?

Under my model, it wouldn't gain you any additional benefit.

If you had Bodymorph twice, say Steel and Glass, only the last activated power would function, as:

Flesh -> Steel, then Steel -> Glass

Means that you are in Glass form at that point.

If you did:

Flesh -> Steel, then Steel -> Steel

Nothing additional happens. You're alreayd Steel. ::smile

[Ayre el KaBeer]

DnD rules where you can't stack the same type of bonus

For example, enhancement bonus' don't stack with enhancement, natural armour bonus' don't stack with natural armour bonus', etc.

To say that Forcefield doesn't stack with Forcefield is purely mechanical. Makes no sense.

Ok how about this, would you allow someone to have the same effect of FF (or anypower for that matter) 4 (36xp) at the cost of 2 sets of FF 2 (22xp)? It goes to game balance both for power levels and for cost. Maybe If you said a character has to buy the power to 5 before they could by it again then I'd say fine. But you're right, in this situation it's Prof's call for how he wants to do it, we await your call oh master of the QZ's.

By the way Brilyn, what's your take on the supersonic enhanced movement issue?

Wait I think I just got it when you said the glass thing about DMD, If I have a fire FF and an Ice FF, then the individual FF's protect against different energy types? is that why thier soaks don't stack?

[brilyn]

For example, enhancement bonus' don't stack with enhancement, natural armour bonus' don't stack with natural armour bonus', etc.

Yes, that would be focusing on the mechanics again.

Look at it descriptively:

If spod A fires a QB at spod B, can spod B use QB as a defensive action?

If you start from a mechanics end, the answer is 'no'.

If you look at the effects, then it depends.

For example, if spod A uses a Beam of Fire, and spod B wants to use a Beam of Ice to try and negate the attack, I'd say 'Go for it', and use it the Beam of Ice to drop the Beam of Fire by damage equal to the amount rolled by the Beam of Ice. (see? Effect first, then use Mechanics to work out how it functions)

Of course, the ST is well within his/her rights to go \"you want to do WHAT? um... no, you die....\". So long as the same rules apply across the board, it doesn't matter which way it goes.

Ok how about this, would you allow someone to have the same effect of FF (or anypower for that matter) 4 (36xp) at the cost of 2 sets of FF 2 (22xp)?

I've covered this already. Effects of the same type aren't going to stack, imo.

If you had 10 guys with FF (Affect Other) that all 'Turned the targets skin to stone', and they ALL pumped up the one guy, he'd only take the best effect, because they're ALL doing the same thing.

If, however, they gave him: Shield of Ice, Shield of Light, Shield of Pure Force, Magnetic Deflector, Stone Skin, Sheild of Entropy, Harden Air, Cyclonic Wind Shield.... Um.... can't think of two more that won't interfere with the others (the Wind Shield probably clashes with the Harden Air), then I'd let ALL of those stack. Happily. Because it would look cool!!! ::smile

Wait I think I just got it when you said the glass thing about DMD, If I have a fire FF and an Ice FF, then the individual FF's protect against different energy types? is that why thier soaks don't stack?

No, and no.

Unless you start taking Weaknesses for powers (which Prof has asked us to refrain from doing), whatever FF you take in his game applies against all damage, be it physical, or energy.

The reason why a Shield of Fire and a Shield of Ice don't stack, is because the Shield of Fire MELTS the Shield of Ice. Which then becomes water, which then extiguishes the Shield of Fire. ::wink

[Bahamut810]

how about we just agree to:

A power wont stack on itself for the same target.

I.e.

Forcefield will work once on a target...but you cant get another one. if you have the extra you can use it on another person though.

Disrupt targets powers, not people. They can disrupt each *power* once and have to wait for disrupt to wear off before disrupting again.

[Alex Green]

Disrupt targets powers, not people.  They can disrupt each *power* once and have to wait for disrupt to wear off before disrupting again.

So does knocking out / killing the source of the Disrupt turn it off (and the effected power on) or not?

If the answer is "No" Disrupt stays on until the end of its maintenance, then flight and forcefield stay on if the owner is knocked out or killed. (Dead people can to fly).

[Bahamut810]

To me that would depend on the power.

I always considered disrupt a fire and forget senario. But with flight its much *safer* for the flight to wear off (falling down to the ground v. running into stuff).

Flight and forcefield I always considered needed to have someone "willing" it to exist through the entire deal. That and the target is mosttimes self.

[Nullifier]

Disrupt targets powers, not people. They can disrupt each *power* once and have to wait for disrupt to wear off before disrupting again.

Erm. Meaning that I can still Disrupt other, different powers while the maintained one is still going, right? I just can't Disrupt the same power twice without megating the effect of the first... Which is fine. ::confused ::bigsmile

[Ayre el KaBeer]

QUOTE 

For example, enhancement bonus' don't stack with enhancement, natural armour bonus' don't stack with natural armour bonus', etc. 

Yes, that would be focusing on the mechanics again.

I was just clarifying, I never aply DnD to Aeon.

The reason why a Shield of Fire and a Shield of Ice don't stack, is because the Shield of Fire MELTS the Shield of Ice. Which then becomes water, which then extiguishes the Shield of Fire. 

But that's like saying those Flaming FF's and Armor's of Ice are also gonna get the Burning extra or Immolate for free. We're talking Aberrant here since when do an Aberrants powers have to conform with physics, I'd happily allow a character who's foom is ic e to have a shield of fire, because that looks damn cool too, just think Iceman wrapped in a shroud of fire, how cool would that be? ::ninja