Aberrant RPG - Crosstime Travel: oh boy..

[Defcon1]

Please forgive my proliferation of topics today, but i think this does deserve it's own topic:

Can i get a general consensus on how ST would deal with this power when it comes to Players or NPCs' for that matter, bringing materials from the alternate dimension back with them to their own?

Let me be more specific.

In the game i'm running now, there is an NPC who thinks he is the avatar of Thor. He's not nearly as powerfull as the Thor in his Subconcious should be (the characters a teenager and a comic fanatic). When asked about it, he claims he's stranded on Midgard until he learns humility and makes up for past indigressions. Anytime he makes any headway in this, Odin gives him more access to his true godhood (meaning, his subconcious directs his growing quantum powers into what he thinks Thor should be). Technically, this will all come to a head in my third campaign when i've calculated the NPC will have reached Thors physical potential and will spend the remainder of his experience on Crosstime travel with the extra Fantastic worlds (i think that's what it's called).

Now heres the problem:

When the NPC whisks the PCs to Asgard, or more specifically, a Midgard where magic is real and Asgard is present, how do i approach magic and would magical items transported back to their own dimension work?

Should i treat magic as quantum powers by another name?

Should i use Mage?

What about creatures who by different means try to cross over to the "prime dimension"?

I don't want to break the system, but at the same time i am trying to run a game where all powers are allowed if the characters can achieve it, so i need some opinions.

[Alex Green]

Is he going alone? Does he have the Q6 min?

What will the real Thor do when he shows up?

[Defcon1]

Is he going alone?  Does he have the Q6 min? 

What will the real Thor do when he shows up?

Believe me, the NPC will have all the neccessary prerequisites to have Crosstime travel. In fact, the power will probably cost less because the NPC will subconsciously limit the use of the power to only "realms" within norse mythology.

There are no other Novas in my campaign claiming to be Thor, so that isn't in question.

I just need some ideas on how others would handle the whole magic scenario.

[Alex Green]

There are no other Novas in my campaign claiming to be Thor, so that isn't in question.

I just need some ideas on how others would handle the whole magic scenario.

You need to decide. Is it magic? Or is it Q powers?

With cross time, you could go to where there is true magic, and the real Thor could show up and be pissed about this upstart.

Or the gods could be old time novas. Or even old time novas who left for this realm.

[Defcon1]

You need to decide. Is it magic? Or is it Q powers?

With cross time, you could go to where there is true magic, and the real Thor could show up and be pissed about this upstart.

Or the gods could be old time novas. Or even old time novas who left for this realm.

Remember, Crosstime travel is totally dependent on the will of the user.

If the user decides he/she wants a world where magic was always real and prominent since Hitler redescovered it in his conquest of the world in 1939, then that's the way it will be.

In my specific case, the NPC who thinks he's Thor will subconciously decide that Asgard is real and he is Thor returning home. So when he whisks the PCs to Midgard and they make their way to Asgard, the Asgardians will all verify the NPCs story, that he is Thor and he was banished to learn humility...because to them, that's exactly what happened.

When i read Crosstime Travel, the specifics of the world are determined by the successes of the roll. Given the limitations which are being set by the NPCs subconcious and the dots which will no doubt go into it, i see enough successes being made to pretty much qarauntee the world reflects the NPCs desires with no divergence.

So, if magic is real should i use Mage without the pesky technocracy limitations or should i just call quantum magic? If i do use Mage, would it be unbalancing?

If the PCs go back home with magical items, should those items still work?

[Bahamut810]

If you use mage...its best to take the paradox relms (if I remember correctly thats what they are called). Make a "prime" or "forces" relm...basically it enhances all "magickal" effects (i.e. energy based q-powers ;D), while technology goes useless (or aquires paradox).

If you want more on this...PM me and when I get home ill get you the info you need to make the paradox relm.

[Finbar]

Re: Old-time Novas

They could actually be waiting for ohers to join them, with finding the place the potential new member's initiation, with some sort of reward (possibly knowledge-based) waiting there...Or they could be waiting for a new ally in a big fight...

Re: Magic

The way I'd probably play it would be to stat-out the other Asgardians as novas. Basically, their powers are defined well enough that only a few pose problems; even Norse wizards could be done by an EM (Loki is not quite the spellcaster Marvel makes him out to be...). I'd base Odin on maybe 150 NP, with the other Asgardians at 60-100 NP...Keep in mind that you don't need to give them actual stats, just power lists...

FR

[Finbar]

Side Note: Because they are esentially static entities, ie, well-defined and unchanging, magic just doesn't feel right; Odin uses can heal and shapechange, but can't alter other's shapes or create new life, for example, so obviously Life magic isn't quite justified.

As for "magic items", just allow them to keep that way, and remove the standard time limit...

FR

[Defcon1]

The problem with having items with magical powers whcih are actually quantum based is with people with any quantum disruption powers.

They shouldn't be able to affect the magical item.

The same for the "gods". Any power which disrupts quantum or affects quantum shouldn't work if they are actually magical.

For the NPC, he will subconciously develop powers that resist such mucking with his quantum powers, because he is "the scion of Odin, and above such mortal manipulations".

I'm afraid i'm gonna have to give the "gods" stats. Given my group, a tussle with Heimdal is a given.

[Finbar]

Actually, if you define the powers as non-quantum, you can use the same rules, but various abilities (like Disrupt or Q-Vampire) won't work on them. Also, for the nova in question, why not use something like Invulnerability: Quantum Changing Abilities?

FR

[Defcon1]

If using quantum powers as magic, how would one define summoning?

Quantum construct wouldn't work because of the limitations and the fact your not making anything, your opening a portal to another realm.

Plus, magicians can do some pretty freeform stuff. If using quantum powers, it would soon become a long list, incredible to afford.

A limited form of Quantum Authority/ Supremacy perhaps?

[Finbar]

1) Summoning would be Q-Construct (or Warp if there was an actual entity...)...

2) As far as magic itself, I'm differentiating between a True Mage and an Asgardian mage. As they had fairly limited abilities (again, Odin could change his shape, scry, heal, summon things, and teleport; these are pretty well noted in the myths; only Loki was a possible exception, but he's also the only one noted as an actual sorcerer), using Quantum powers to define the numbers should be fairly easy. Also, they weren't exactly powerful mages at that; look at what Odin had to do just for what amounted to a basic divination spell. Odin has Shapenchange and Heal, not Life 4...

Basically, what I'm suggesting is use 75-150 QP per god, then change any Q-references to Magic. I just think it's easier and makes them harder to effect through q-adjustment powers....You can use True Magic or Sorcery, but it just doesn't feel quite right...

FR

[Defcon1]

I looked up the extra for Crosstime travel yesterday night.

The extra is called Exotic Worlds, and allows for pretty much anything; magic, any assortment of unnatural laws, etc.

It's cool to go by the actual mythology, but you are forgeting the world is based on the will of the user. In this case, the NPC is basing the world on his love for the Marvel comics version, with adjustments for the parts of real mythology he actually likes.

So Loki is a powerfull sorcerer and Odin is Uber powerfull.

Quantum Construct for summoning is iffy because in a world where magic is real, the summoner is not making up creatures as he/she goes. The summoner IS ACTUALLY summoning a creature from another plane of existence. The creature isn't a construct of the imagination and quantum (or magic).

Ice Giants aren't tainted novas...they're ice giants.

So, should i just use quantum powers, call it magic and throw out the limitations, or use Mage and add limitations.

[ProfPotts]

It's cool to go by the actual mythology, but you are forgeting the world is based on the will of the user.

That's not quite right, really. The 'search parameters' for the power are based on the thoughts / will of the Nova using it, but nothing in the actual dimension reached is. For a world 'based on the will of the user' you'd need to use Universe Creation, not Cross-Time Travel.

The limiting factor about CTT is whether the dimension sought actually exists 'out there' or not - which is basically up to the ST & the type of game you want. All the Exotic Worlds Extra does is to allow a greater degree of flexibility on the search parameters used to locate the new dimension, rather than limit them to branches in the timelines (like standard CTT).

With the scenario outlined the interesting question would be whether the Thor-bloke is actually correct - maybe he really was sent from this other dimension (via a more powerful Nova - the Odin figure in this case - using CTT)!

[Defcon1]

That's not quite right, really. The 'search parameters' for the power are based on the thoughts / will of the Nova using it, but nothing in the actual dimension reached is. For a world 'based on the will of the user' you'd need to use Universe Creation, not Cross-Time Travel.

The limiting factor about CTT is whether the dimension sought actually exists 'out there' or not - which is basically up to the ST & the type of game you want. All the Exotic Worlds Extra does is to allow a greater degree of flexibility on the search parameters used to locate the new dimension, rather than limit them to branches in the timelines (like standard CTT).

With the scenario outlined the interesting question would be whether the Thor-bloke is actually correct - maybe he really was sent from this other dimension (via a more powerful Nova - the Odin figure in this case - using CTT)!

Yeah, but the concept of Crosstime Travel itself allows for pretty much anything within the realm of natural laws.

Look at the examples given.

Hitler wins the war.

The south won.

Those two examples alone are general examples which can change a lot of things. With more successes, you can be as specific in the changes in the world sought after as you want to be.

Fusion power discovered in 1920. Mars and Venus terraformed with seperatist governments by 2003. Cybertechnology widely used commercially and by the military.

Etc., etc., etc.

The Exotic world extra just allows one to break the laws of physics and come up with the fantastical.

Why, in the textbook example, the Crosstime travel user has the ability to choose whether or not there is a counter part of him/herself in the world accessed. Of course, in the case of the NPC, Thor was banished to Midgard until he humbled himself. Subconciously the NPC probably designated that the Thor in that world died on Midgard so there would be no other when he arrived.

But it does get me thinking about not having that be so, so i could throw in the havoc of having two Thors claiming to be the real one.

If a ST allows the power, and then says in the infinite possibilities of worlds layed out before the Crosstime stream and blown wide open by the exotic worlds extra, there isn't one reflecting the parameters of the character...there is something seriously wrong. The PC has every right to be pissed and take the ST to task for humoring him by allowing the power to be taken.

[Defcon1]

Before i go for the weekend, i just want to add this:

I don't even want to begin to think...i say again, THINK about the craziness that could have been if Nikola Tesla lived to be a ripe old age and the scientific community accepted and backed everything he discovered and wanted to do.

Crazy.

[ProfPotts]

in the infinite possibilities of worlds layed out before the Crosstime stream and blown wide open by the exotic worlds extra

There's your problem right there - the power text doesn't state that there's an infinite number of worlds at all, what it does say is,

"The universe spilts in two each time a decision takes place that involves a significant release of quantum energy."

& later,

"... nobody can really say for sure why some events create branching timelines & some apparently don't."

(Both APG p.122)

Rather than the player being pissed at the ST limiting his choices, the ST has the right to be pissed at the player for trying to get the same effect as a level 6 power with a clearly inferior level 4 power! ::wink

[Finbar]

So Loki is a powerfull sorcerer and Odin is Uber powerfull. So Loki is a powerfull sorcerer and Odin is Uber powerfull.

EM: Magic takes out a lot of the issues here...

Quantum Construct for summoning is iffy because in a world where magic is real, the summoner is not making up creatures as he/she goes. The summoner IS ACTUALLY summoning a creature from another plane of existence. The creature isn't a construct of the imagination and quantum (or magic).

That's probably why I also suggested Warp...which would allow you to take a critter from one place and take it somewhere else....

Ice Giants aren't tainted novas...they're ice giants.

Just trying to figure out an easy way to do this without hauling out Sorcerer, Bygone Bestiary, and half a dozen other Mage books...It's easier to do a brick with Size Control (Increase) than the Bygone Bestiary...

So, should i just use quantum powers, call it magic and throw out the limitations, or use Mage and add limitations.

Use whatever you feel more comfortable with...But quit reading between lines that simply aren't there...I mean, I'm not even suggesting using Taint, as it wouldn't apply (but it would explain why some sorcerers have horns ::crazy )....

As far as the Cross-Time thing is concerned, you may want to consider that at 5 sux, the player is still there AND you have control over the situation; at seven, he can find whatever world he wants, but he's not part of the timeline...Even if he wants magic, he still has to allow you control OR write himself out of the time line...Basically, quit coddling the player and start ST'ing...It's great that your trying to give him everything he wants, but ou need to have as fun as the player or it's just not worth it...

FR