Aberrant RPG - Mega-Attribute Development

[Gideon]

I am looking at the Mega-Attributes and noticed the limits on your mega-attributes development:

No greater than normal attribute, or Quantum+1, whichever is less.

So a character with a Strength of 5 and a Quantum of 5, could never develop a Mega-Strength of 6...Unless I misread somehthing.

This must be a misread, since they give stats for Mega-Attributes greater than 5.

Or can novas develope normal attributes up to 10??? ::blink

Any insights are much appreciated!

Gideon

[Bahamut810]

technically that is correct that a PC can never get M-Str of over 5.

Now...if the GM wanted to they could take off that 'higher then rating part" or make it into "rating+node" or some such like that...its more of a Power-nazi thing then anything else.

"No divis-mal-power for you!"

[Gideon]

I get it, my curiosity came from a campaign I was putting togetherthat would cover a transition period between the Aberrant era and the Trinity era, and I realized I could not explain (within the game mechanics) how any "normal" nova could achieve a Mega-Anything of 6...

Though the idea of adding Node to Attribute for the ultimate upper limit is a good adjustment...

Plus I have a player who just got a Mega-Stamina of 4, and we were all wondering whast would happen when he reached the 5 rank...I guess just stop without a house rule...

Thanks.

[Defcon1]

Actually, a player can have mega stats above 5.

If one has a quantum of 6 or higher, their new mega attribute limit is that number.

Rules are given in the Players guide.

[Reighnhell]

Actually, it's a bit of a meta-rule. It's applies to Quantum powers, so logically it would apply to Mega-att's. But be damned if I cannot find where it explicitly states that at Q6+, a charcter can raise his Mega-att's above 5. I blame the overall shoddy editing in the Aberrant PG.

So if your in need of a quick fix, simpoly state that when a Nova gets to Quantum 6+, his Quantum abilities ( Mega-Att's, Q-Powers, Possible Node) have a max equal to Quantum level.

[Bahamut810]

The only thing I remember reading about it in the APG is where it says what was quoted earlier.

[Sprocket]

You folks might want to check out the N! Prime site (listed in EON's links section). The folks there have posted a fairly workable system for Mega-Attributes above five. There's just one problem: since the article predates the release of the APG, they had to cook up their own scales for Mega-Strength and Mega-Stamina at 6 dots and higher. When compared to the versions listed in the APG, they come off as a bit wimpy... ::hehe

BTW, there is a possible way for starting novas to achieve base attribute scores in the 6+ range. Check out the core book where it gives nova point costs in character creation. One little nova point will get you 9 (yes, NINE! ::crazy ) dots of whatever base Attributes the player wants! And seeing that there's no Quantum-based ceiling on the base attributes... ::devilangel

I just suppose the actual mechanics for base attributes above 5 were left out by the editors.. oh well.

[phoenix]

One little nova point will get you 9 (yes, NINE!  ) dots of whatever base Attributes the player wants!

::blink What?! I'll check, but I'm almost certain that it says three for a nova point. Why would you bother putting your base att.s at above five anyway when you can just buy mega-atts?

[Sprocket]

Whoops! ::blush My mistake, Phoenix- I ran off to check my own copy of the core rulebook myself, and you're correct- one can only buy three base attribute points for 1 nova point. But still, that's nothing to sneeze at...

As for why one would bother to buy base attributes above five... open up your copy of the core rulebook to the beginning of the section on Mega-Attributes. The mechanics of Mega-Attributes are a lot more dependent on the base attributes than they seem. (Since they're really only quantum-fueled amplifications of those base attributes, it should be fairly obvious.) A nova with Strength 2 and Mega-Strength 2 is NOT just as strong as a nova with Strength 4 and Mega-Strength 2- indeed, the latter nova is very likely to blow the former out of the water in direct attribute competition.

Now, seeing as players (and especially the players of nova characters) will grab every edge they can to make their characters "better", why _wouldn't_ someone want to optimize his or her character in some way? I mean, Divis Mal is supposed to have a Mega-Intelligence score of 8, for crying out loud! It's a pretty sure thing that his base Intelligence is 8 or higher.

[Finbar]

Boy, talk about spreading the love...

We need an FAQ...Oh, Chill, we need talk, eh? ::halo

Basically, you ARE limited to 5 in attributes, and the APG allows (we think ::crazy ) Mega-Atts with the same restrictions as powers (the max. of normal stat apparently falls by the wayside at Q6+).

Also, a two or three point difference between stats only makes an extra success or so difference; it's actually more efficient to do matches using abilities (which combined with Mega-Atts and specialties can get pretty nasty....). Abilities are also cheaper to buy...As I can buy +1 ability, an appropriate enhancement, and a specialty (+5 dice or so) for the same cost (or cheaper) as a +1 attribute (+1 die), the abilities are a more efficient purchase...

Oh yeah, and you can get 6 ability points per nova point... ::devil

FR

[phoenix]

You ARE limited to 5 in attributes.

That makes sense to me. The way I see it, attributes are within normal range, and mega-atts are without human range. Since a human can only score 1 - 5, a score above five would be outside human range by definition, and being outside human range is already represented by mega-atts. It would be redundant to have both. Besides, a mega-att of above five would still be accessible when the nova is dormant, and therefore limiting itself to human range.

[Gideon]

In our play your basic attribute and quantum attributes have a roleplay impact, in that your "normal" attributes affect how you appear (i.e. if you have a normal stat of 2 you look like an average person of that trait. So that waif of a girl with Stam and Str of 2, could have a mega-str of 3! or Mega-Stam of 3, we do this to emulate the pretty/cute guy/gal who has a surprising amount of wallop that you find in comics so often.

This is important to my players when they considered that until you reached a Dorm of 4, "No physical change occures" when Dromed.

Gideon

[ezekiel]

Hey Gideon, Welcome aboard ::smiley5

That's pretty much how I see it also (apparent weakling who can crush telephone poles) It gets more abstract with mental and social attributes though...a 1dot intelligence with1 mega-int? Or with more apparent impact, 1dot charisma and 1mega-cha. How would that play? The difference could be played through dormed and un-dormed but why would a mega-intelligent character ever accept to dorm down if it meant turning into a moron? It'd turn the character into some kind of schizophrenic, me thinks...

[Dr. Arbitrary]

I know it's bad karma to mix systems, but I always thought of it being kind of like VtM, Potence, Celerity and Fortitute are comparable to Mega Strength, dex and stamina. I'm going off memory, but I think that if you hit a certain generation in Vampire you could transcend the normal 5 dot limit.

Applied to abberant, it would be all attributes, abilities (maybe, maybe not) and powers have an upper limit of 5 or Quantum, whichever is higher. Mega Attributes are limited to Attribute or Quantum +1, whichever is lower.

There are advantages to this system.

1. Dormancy does not diminish normal attributes, therefore Mal would be Int 8 even when he was dormed down.

2. Mega attributes are quantum fueled, they can be detected through various means so normal attributes would be stealth.

3. Normal attributes, when pushed beyond 5, while quite amazing, are still "human" in some ways, kind of like the unearthly beauty abberation as opposed to high appearance. I'd imagine that a int 6 person would be much less creepy than a mega int 3 person.

Dr. A

[Bahamut810]

mabey we should make an EON house rule for this to put in the new powers section of EON

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Just look at the Boost power, once an attribute goes above 5, each point over automatically converts into the mega attribute equivalent. This tells me you shouldn't be able to take it above 5, just my take on the situation.

[Sprocket]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at all the "no base attributes above 5" responses posted to this thread. The argument has definite anti-munchkin potential... ::biggrin

But here's a little tidbit for all of you folks to chew on. The Trinity Player's Guide lists a Merit called "Exceptional Potential" on page 128. For three freebie points, a psion can raise one attribute to six dots once sufficient experience points are invested. Even if it's only by one point, this merit pretty much flies in the face of your "no base attributes above 5" argument. As for me, I think I'll stand by my guns and remain pro "6+ base Attributes". If anything, it makes the higher levels of the Mega-Attributes more expensive. ::devilangel

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Who's being anti-munchkin?, I just don't see a point to taking atts up higher than the rules say, eg. "Mr. Gm type person, I'm gonna roll 5 and add 25 automatically, do you mind if I roll 10 instead?", or "Hmmm how to have unbeliveable soak from force field? 5 stamina + (who knows?)mega stam, ooh what if i had more base stamina?"... 6 max with 3 freebie expendature fine, it's in the rules but to spend 2 nova points and put an attribute up by six putting any attribute to 7 or more, that has to make any gm scream "GOD NO!!!". I admit it I have a problem with munchkins that go beyond the rules. ::unsure

[Sprocket]

Hey there, Ayre- ::wink

I see where you're coming from, but I just don't see the point. Who ever said that all this twinkish stuff had to be limited to the player characters? If a Storyteller is too lazy not to adjust the opposition to the player's power levels, then he deserves the grief they will cause him. ::devil Besides, there's always the old cliche about "there's always someone out there stronger/more powerful/meaner than you are". Why not apply it? ::cool

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Hehehe because there isn't enough xp in the world for starters ::laugh . Since your applying the APG rules I don't think the players are being all that limited, a mega anything above 6 is fantastic they don't need all those extra base atts.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Actually on second thought I'd allow it so long as each additional point adds a permanent point of taint, maybe 5 temp taint if you feel that's too harsh. And By the way I've already created a variant of Boost that allows a player to up his/her base atts up but not to be converted into mega's, of course it doesn't stack with normal boost. It's based on one of my favorite abilities from V:tM, except that it can be bought for either all social, mental, or physical... same level as boost, because the player can up any of the three atts in the list and cannot have a second set added as an extra, so choose wisely. Roll Quantum+Power successes increase a chosen attribute on a 1 for 1 ratio to a maximum of 10, extra successes don't carry over to any other attribute in the list. This power can only be used once per scene per attribute.

[Bahamut810]

You knwo I would run a game where everyone could do that...

but then I would be mean and make their first baddie someone with only one ability at one dot...Quantum Inferno...Aggrivated

thats a base of 110 agg damage right there

If someone had the STM enhancement that turns Agg to Lethel...make it bashing

Base of 550 bashing damage.

::devil MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! ::devil

*coughcough* I need to work on not laughing like that...

FYI...(you can actually do that with only 52 np! take 1 q from your BP...that leaves 8q (cost of a low low 40np) and 12 for the actual power...you will take a strait 5 taing though for the high Q))

[Sprocket]

::blink Uhmm.. okay. You might want to look at that article on the N!Prime site that I mentioned in a previous post, though. Try it on for size and see if it fits before tossing it out the window, at least. ::laugh

BTW, about the "Not enough XP in the world" remark- So that's when your campaign needs to go interstellar (if not inter-universal). Divis Mal/Doctor Primoris/Michael Donighal may have been the first aberrant-level nova on Aeon-Earth, but there's no way that Aeon-Earth was the only planet to spawn a quantum-manipulation species... (Cue the soundtracks for Call of Cthulhu.. ::devilangel )

[Ayre el KaBeer]

I just had a glimps at the mind that is Sprocket... I'm cold, so verry cold... ::unsure

[Sprocket]

That's just because you're sitting in a draft, Ayre. Honest! ::devil

Seriously though- this whole question of what should/should not be allowed is kind of pointless, don't you think? All three of the Aeoniverse games, Aberrant in particular, were _meant_ to have their rules bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated. It's a large part of what makes them so much fun... ::hehe

BTW, isn't there any Storyteller out there who _doesn't_ relish the thought of scaring his or her players to death once in a while? Just because a group of novas are hot stuff on their homeworld doesn't mean that will hold true once they depart from that particular rockball... And while the Cthulhu Mythos is a classic, I'm sure that some other fevered minds out there could come up with equally terrifying threats to the player characters' lives and/or sanity.

[Bahamut810]

I prefer Clive Barker-ish stuff myself ::devil

I may have to submit my Clive inspired Mega-baddie to EON to show you how damned scary it can be...

[phoenix]

Who's Clive Barker?

[Bahamut810]

Who is Clive Barker? Thou art the evil one...

He wrote Hellrasier...all thoes tortured souls from McFarlin Toys? Thats him too!

http://www.spawn.com/features/torturedsouls/

Be amazed at the beauty that you can see through all their pain

[Finbar]

Lucidique, you've got some 'splainin to do! ::bigsmile

I kept giggling as I looked at them...Thinking, man, if only I were 12, these would be great! ::devil But, now...Weird, when you can actually see the maturing in yourself... ::shocked ::blush

Now, as to raviolis and black holes.... ::sneaky2

[ezekiel]

Well, I choose to remain young at heart and thought some of 'em were cool (I like Talisac quite a bit...) Don't think I'd buy any though, it wouldn't fit the decor. Barker must have bad nightmares...

[Finbar]

1) It's weird...I can appreciate them, but...It's sorta like power-gaming: I can appreciate the work and rules-knowledge it takes to pull off, but I'm more into character development now...Someone shoot me, please! ::crazy

2) I can just imagine the therapy sessions that he must have...And the funny thing (werid funny, not haha funny) is that all of his traumas are self-induced; I've not heard of any major things (like what you'd expect) that happened to him.... ::dontgetit ....Weird....

[Bahamut810]

I think he is a genious...I love all his older work...not all that lovey dovey crap he puts out now though ::angry

But thats just me...Im a very strange person if you cant tell ::biggrin

[ProfPotts]

Hellraiser was good, although I prefered Nightbreed (I think the story it's based on was called 'Cabal').

[Sprocket]

I've got to admit that Cabal (and Nightbreed) are my favorites of Clive Barker's major works- although i think he got royally shafted on the Hellraiser movies. ::sneaky2

Re: powergaming vs. character development-

You must've had to game with younger players, Finbar. Sorry, nobody's going to shoot you! ::devilangel

The two styles aren't exclusionary, though- what you're probably thinking of is younger folk wanting to run their nova characters as if they were playing a dice-and-paper version of Doom. Aside from the APG itself, one of the best resources on how to play (and referee) well-above-the-average-power-level characters has to be the Vampire Storyteller's Guide. Do yourself a favor and buy it if you can get it cheap- I tend to buy my WOD stuff from used bookstores, myself.

[Bahamut810]

you have a used book store that has WoD stuff? Damn...closest I get is eBay

[Finbar]

Dealing with power-gamers are easy; it's just a matter of showing them that there's always someone bigger than they are ::devil ...

It's just I was noting how your tastes change over the years...Something like Barker's toys would have been cool back when I was into that (around 10 or so), but I've hit a point (mid-30's) where I honestly think that if I saw something like that walk into my office, my first reaction would be something like, "Oh, great...He's going to tear up the seats..." ::bigsmile or even, "How do I tell the boss, with a straight face, that Huakma the Eviscerator is here for his 2 o'clock?" ::bigsmile

FR

[Bahamut810]

Tear up the seats? I wold be more worried with "tear my face off, followed by slowly removing my large intestine"

[Finbar]

Well, see, that's what I'm talking about. I mean, sure, he may be a flesh-eating demon, but he's coming in for an appointment...Would you want to tick off someone you've been trying to see for the last two weeks by eating his receptionist? ::biggrin

FR