Aberrant RPG - Linked Powers?

[Archer21]

Alrighty, here I go again! ::rolleyes

Okay, how do linked powers and weaknesses work?

Here's my plan, but I'm not sure how it works out, mechanics-wise...

Characters powers:

Density Control, Hypermovement

(linked completely, simultaneous activation, no dice pool penalty)

AND

Armor--Extra(Superheavy), Claws

(linked completely, simultaneous activation, no dice pool penalty)

With these weaknesses, how much would each power cost per dot?

This is my first time trying to figure out Weaknesses, any help will be much appreciated.

[Alex Green]

Keep in mind that you can't have both types of linkages (not that you are).

I think this is the -3 weakness. That doesn't give you a point break when buying it.

1 NP * Claws

3 NP * Armor (weak, linked to claws)

(Note that this is a true weakness for armor, normally you could just leave it on).

3 NP Armor is now SuperHeavy.

Total = 7 NP.

But the Armor remains a level 2 power. You can buy the next level for 5 experience points, or increase it to level 3 (giving it Impervious) for 3 experience.

--------------------

Density Control & Hypermovement

(a better choice since they are both maintence powers)

3 NP * Density Control (I'm assuming Increase)

3 NP * Hypermove (weakness -3, linked to DC).

Total = 6 NP.

Again, you don't get a break here buying it (you would for a -5 weakness, that could reduce the level by 1 to a level 1 power).

Also again, if you want to put an extra on it (reduced q cost is a good choice), you can without increasing the level.

This type of linkage is really designed for powers that are of the type duration. For example: Linking Strobe to Q-Blast, or Flight to Forcefield. Linking attacks would let you do lots of types of stuff at once ("Ha, you are blind, poisoned, and take damage!") and, similarly, linking defenses lets you turn them on all at once without splitting actions or taking lots of turns (the flight+FF example).

Watch out for q costs... and the more the merrier.

You could link 3 of the 4 powers above to the 4th power. Armor+Claws+Hypermove, all linked to Density Increase. Better yet, link Armor+Hypermove+DI to Claws. The total cost of activation would be 5 q (think hard about buying node) but you could spend 9 experience and reduce that cost to 2 q.

Personally I'd also remove Armor from that package.

[Archer21]

Mebbe it'll help if I explain what I want the end result to be?

I may not be expressing it correctly.

Okay...Armor and Claws are linked, the character cannot have claws unless Armor is active, so character must activate Claws to get Armor. Make sense? Basically, giving a big weakness to the Armor as a power, since it's normally always active. I'd like to get a reduced cost for the Armor, if possible. If not, the Superheavy Extra for 3 NP makes up for it.

The Density Increase automatically occurs when the character starts using Hypermovement. Essentially, the character is afraid of lifting off the ground if he goes too fast. (Not the brightest character...)

If I can, I'd like to link Armor+Claws+DI to Hypermovement. The Claws are really just part of the Armor and Density Increase(fingers are incredibly tough and hard).

I was thinking of trying to get a reduced cost for the DI and/or Hypermovement, but a reduced Quantum cost wouldn't be too shabby either.

Also, if I wanted to get reduced cost for any power, that needs a -5 Weakness, but how do I get a -5 weakness?

As a separate question, why would you remove Armor?

The character is afraid of crashing into stuff(Armor, maybe some MegaDex).

[Archer21]

Okay...I understand now...I didn't read your post as thoroughly as I should have. Please disregard my previous post.

So you can only have one kind of linkage...makes sense.

So, how do I link more than 2 powers at a time? I don't understand linking more than 2. Ideally, I'd like to link DI+Armor+Claws together, Hypermovement being kept separate. Hypermovement would have it's own weakness, but I haven't thought of an appropriate Weakness yet...I was thinking that the character could only use Hypermovement at an equal level to his DI...the faster he moves, the more his density must increase. How many points would that weakness be worth?

I planned on having equal levels of Hypermovement and DI, BTW.

How does all that work out?

Please help, my brain hurts. ::smiley4

[Alex Green]

I'd remove Armor from the combo because it doesn't have a q cost or a duration. You can have it up while you are sleeping... so it always adds to your soak. That way, even if some Mikealite blows up your car, you are still covered. Also, if we are going to stay with -3 weaknesses then you don't get a cost break for it (although you do for improving it). On a side note, Armor has great extras, which would be strong argument for giving it a -3 weakness (I'm going to assume that you will link it for the rest of this note).

Probably you want to link everything to either claws (because it is a level 1 power) or to Hypermovement (because it doesn't have great extras). (I'm assuming everything links to claws).

Assume Q=3 (the min for this power set)

I see 3 options here.

Option #1) Increase the -3 weakness to a -5 weakness, and reduce the effected powers by one level.

You need an extra -2. Basically you could decrease the duration by 2 (from Level+Q to Level+Q-2), increase the q cost by 2 (really expensive, and not in the book, but I'd allow it), or make the powers only accessable most of the time (not in direct sunlight, only in the presence of other novas, etc).

Assume you get an extra -2.

1 NP * Claws

1 NP * Hypermove (-5 Weaknesses; +5 Strength=-1 Level)

3 NP * Armor + Superheavy(ditto)

1 NP * Density Increase (ditto)

Total = 6 NP

q cost to use = 5q / 4 Turns

Option #2) Stay with -3 weaknesses.

1 NP * Claws

3 NP * Hypermove (-3 Weaknesses)

6 NP * Armor + Superheavy(ditto) (+3 Strength, extra didn't increase level)

3 NP * Density Increase (ditto)

Total = 13 NP

q cost to use = 7q / 4 Turns

Option #3) Turn this into a BodyMorph (see core book).

12 NP **** BodyMorph (HardSolid)

1) Density Increase

2) Claws+Armor Piercing

3) Hypermove

4) Armor (not with SuperHeavy)

Total = 12 NP

q cost to use = 2q / 7 Turns

This approach is more maintainable from a q perspective, it also gives you a -1 succ for others to hit you and you do another +2 Dice in damage. You might have a problem figuring out how to put all of these into one theme... but we haven't touched theme so far so I'll ignore it here (hint: so far he looks a lot like a Bullet Train).

[Alex Green]

I was thinking that the character could only use Hypermovement at an equal level to his DI...the faster he moves, the more his density must increase. How many points would that weakness be worth?

I think you mean, "the character could only use DI at an equal level to his hypermove".

One of the confusing parts here is that movement rate (i.e. the most you can move) is different from velocity.

If you mean, "he has to be moving at a certain rate to get a certain density" then you need to define how he gets that rate.

Example: He needs to be able to take his full movement... (This may mean that he can't use it in doors).

This isn't a linkage BTW, this is a restriction. And this is the point where you negotiate with the ST. I'd guess -1 or -2, but that is just off hand. Note that this also only applies to the DI.

[Archer21]

Alex, you rock! Thank you for taking the time to explain.

You are correct on the theme, definitely going for the armored speedster, ala Bullet Train. That was my idea all along.

Okay, what if I make it simpler, and take the Claws out of the equation. Ok, so now, no claws. I can live with no claws.

I really like the Bodymorph idea...but, it doesn't give me the ability to have as much soak as I'd like. I max out at 3 Armor and 2 DI, or vice versa with 5 dots of Bodymorph.

I'd like have at least 3 dots in each power...3 dots of Armor, 3 dots of DI, 3 dots of Hypermove. This character will have some Taint.

The DI and Hypermove thing sounds confusing...think of it this way: If the character wants to move at Hypermove 1, he must be using DI 1...if he wants to use Hypermove 3, he must be using DI 3. It's not a matter of movement rate, it's a matter of how many dots of the power he wants to use. Does that sound better, or more confusing?

This character's main attack will be a Hyperspeed Slam or Strike, so he needs to be able to soak at least half the damage that he will be causing to his target. That's why he needs the Armor and DI. Armor for soak, and DI for extra soak and Strength, e.g. more damage at impact.

So....could I link Hypermovement to Density Increase, then keep Armor separate?

Or something like that...

::wacko

[Alex Green]

Okay, what if I make it simpler, and take the Claws out of the equation. Ok, so now, no claws. I can live with no claws.

Actually, Claws, aspecially AP claws, is really effective, and in theme for you (you hit something like falling damage, and falling damage is both lethal & (somewhat) AP)

The DI and Hypermove thing sounds confusing...think of it this way: If the character wants to move at Hypermove 1, he must be using DI 1...if he wants to use Hypermove 3, he must be using DI 3. It's not a matter of movement rate, it's a matter of how many dots of the power he wants to use.

I thought so, but the problem is that there is no difference at all between you turning on one level and turning on all three. In fact, it is normally assumed that you turn on all three if have them. It would almost be a -0 restriction.

I'd like have at least 3 dots in each power...3 dots of Armor, 3 dots of DI, 3 dots of Hypermove. ...  I really like the Bodymorph idea...but, it doesn't give me the ability to have as much soak as I'd like. I max out at 3 Armor and 2 DI, or vice versa with 5 dots of Bodymorph.

At this point we have a theme, we have a (very) rough idea of what powers would be good, it is time for point effectiveness.

If you are going to be using Armor inside of a maintence power, then you might as well buy the maintence defense, i.e. Force Field. Lots more bang for your buck. Whether or not you keep the Armor depends on points, but move it outside the BM.

If you are going to be running into things you need to start worring about being stunned. And your defenses. And extra life levels. As it happens, BodyMorph and Forcefield are both Stamina powers. Mega-Stamina is almost a must have for the way this character is shaping up.

(Draft)

Freebies go for Q, so you have a Q of 3

02 2 N : +6 Attribute points (to max Stamina & Strength)

11 9 N : +3 Mega-Stamina

23 12 N: +4 BodyM (DI, FF, Hypermove x2)

24 1 N : +5 Background (EuFiber)

At this point, your soak would be

5/5 EuFiber

5/2 Stamina

3/2 M-Stamina

2/2 DI (normally I go with the APG version, a bit weaker but more stable).

16/16 FF (average)

Total: 31/27 and you have 6 nova points to spare and a taint of zero.

Comments: I'd hold off buying Armor for now, use experience for that. Since this character can attack from a really long way away, I'd get a level of M-Per(EVision) for the telescopic abilities. Since you get a +2 to your strength, max out Strength and make that a +2 Mega-Strength. Then think hard about buying +1 Mega-Str (Crush) (it's claws without having claws, the errata says you would always do lethal damage).

Note that it is cheap to buy (with experience) the second level of a mega-attribute, even the third isn't that bad. Thus with your +2, you could get 3 Mega-Strength with experience and have an effective 5 Mega-Strength in Combat.

[ProfPotts]

I thought so, but the problem is that there is no difference at all between you turning on one level and turning on all three. In fact, it is normally assumed that you turn on all three if have them. It would almost be a -0 restriction.

Actually, if you turn on a power at half it's maximum or less you save 1 QP on the power's activation cost (Aberrant p.179).

Also: technically there's also no reason you can't get the Linked Weakness for all the powers linked together - you don't need one power without the Weakness for the others to link to (unlike the similar Linked powers system in Champions). In fact, if you don't take the Weakness for all the powers thus Linked, you're just ripping youself off for a few points!

[Archer21]

Errr....what?

Professor, could you give me an example of this Linked Weakness bit?

I don't get it.

[Archer21]

Okay, here's how the character looks so far.

Bodymorph 5(Tainted, yes that means 5 taint)

-DI: 3 (Fixed)

-FF: 2 (Variable)

Hypermovement: 2

Mega-Stamina: 1

-Resiliency x 2

-Adaptability(not sure about this one yet)

Mega-Dex: 1

-Enhanced Movement

This leaves me with what, 2 NP if I keep Adaptability, or 5 NP without it?

Is that right?

At least 1 NP will be spent to max Physical Atts, the other NP for ???

Now, howzabout that linking? ::sly

I need me some lowered costs or Extras...is there any way I can link Adaptability to Bodymorph, so it only works in his armored form?

[Alex Green]

(He is right about reducing q cost for half use of powers, min cost = 1).

We are on page 142 of the APG.

He means: Claws and Armor are linked (-3), so both get a -3, not just the Armor.

I have a champions background, so it never occured to me that it might be the case.

Looking at the (only) example (bottom right of page 142) I don't think he is correct.

Luck and Healing are linked to Magnetic Control. The linkage in question is a weakness for Luck & Healing, but not Magnetic Control.

The example isn't exactly on point (it's a dependance) but I think the implication is that the weakness is for one power (the same would hold true for the -1 level of Activation Delay). Getting the -3 for both powers sounds a lot like double dipping.

[Alex Green]

is there any way I can link Adaptability to Bodymorph, so it only works in his armored form?

There really should be, but the only way I know is the (overpriced) method of actually placing inside the BodyM.

Bodymorph 5(Tainted, yes that means 5 taint)

-DI: 3 (Fixed)

-FF: 2 (Variable)

Hypermovement: 2

Mega-Stamina: 1

-Resiliency x 2

-Adaptability(not sure about this one yet)

Mega-Dex: 1

-Enhanced Movement

Comments:

1) Change the second dot of FF to Armor. After the first dot, FF only grants 0.8/0.8 while Armor grants 3/3 to soak.

2) You still need to worry about willpower, Backgrounds, Attributes, & Skills.

3) After the first dot of DI, the only thing it grants is x2 Mass, +1 Str, & 1/1 soak. You would gain a lot of flexibility by reducing the DI by one dot and buying a level of Mega-Strength. You would be Strong all the time, not just while bodymorphed. You could buy the various Strength enhancements (Crush and Irresistable Force would work really good for you).

4) You paid for 2 enhancements for stamina (ignoring the free one). The x2 Res gave you an extra 5/2 soak. The Adaptability means that you don't sleep and are hard to poison.

If you moved the points from both of them into your raw Mega-Stamina, you would have lost the 5/2 soak, but gained 4/4 soak from the Forcefield, 2/1 from the Mega-Stamina, and 2/1 from Res. Thus your net would be an additional 3/4 in soak (and an extra health level, and less suffering from pain, and increased healing). A Mega-Stamina of 3 is immune to little things like nerve gass and barely needs to sleep anyway.

5) You could link the hypermovement to the BM, but what I would suggest is just moving it inside the BM, and taking both the FF and Armor out of the BM. Both of them have great extras. Link the FF to the BM. In the future you will be able to buy both Imperv and reduced q cost quite cheaply.

6) IMHO, 5 taint is a lot for a starting character (although Iron Angel had 6). Your taint is only buying you one nova point for each point of taint (rather than 2 for 1), I'd lose a level of DI and drop 2 points of taint.

Note that DI is pumpable. To get that extra effective level of DI would then cost you an extra point of q, but at this point that is probably fine.

[Archer21]

I can't really think of a good reason why a BM: Solid would have Hypermove though.

DI, Armor, FF, Claws, those I can fit in a theme of Bodymorph, but I can't justisfy Hypermove.

Changing the second FF to Armor is a good idea, I'll use that.

I also like the idea of reducing the DI by one and buying Mega-Strength. Irresistable Force is neato. That's a definite maybe.

I see your point about Mega-Stamina, but Adaptability is waaaaay more versatile. I can always upgrade Mega-Sta later for not too much XP.

Plus, I can buy more HL for 1 NP with Body Modification.

All in all though, I like the way this character is shaping up.

[Alex Green]

I can't really think of a good reason why a BM: Solid would have Hypermove though.  DI, Armor, FF, Claws, those I can fit in a theme of Bodymorph, but I can't justisfy Hypermove.

Make your BM; \"Bullet\".

I see your point about Mega-Stamina, but Adaptability is waaaaay more versatile. I can always upgrade Mega-Sta later for not too much XP.

Then buy Adaptability rather than Resistant. You still end up with more soak, and all of the misc extras that a high stamina give.

Increasing M-Stam 1 to M-Stam 3 costs 15 exp. That is the equiv of 3 M-Stam extras.

Assume for the moment that you do go with a 3 Mega-Stam (Adapt). Although a decent choice, a high Mega-Stam covers part of what Adapt covers. This guy is combat focused, Regen would probably do more for you. IMHO, Regen ties with Adapt for the best extra.

I can buy more HL for 1 NP with Body Modification.

You don't have the points to spare. You probably don't want a 3 willpower, it sucks being pushed around with all the various social powers/attributes.

But if you did take an extra level of HL, you would be trading a point of taint for a 3 experience point item.

[ProfPotts]

Looking at the (only) example (bottom right of page 142) I don't think he is correct.

Luck and Healing are linked to Magnetic Control. The linkage in question is a weakness for Luck & Healing, but not Magnetic Control.

The example isn't exactly on point (it's a dependance) but I think the implication is that the weakness is for one power (the same would hold true for the -1 level of Activation Delay). Getting the -3 for both powers sounds a lot like double dipping.

Well, I'll agree that the examples are a bit thin on the ground, but it all depends on which 'Linked Powers' Weakness you buy. As you pointed out the example is specifically a 'Dependency' Weakness (i.e. the powers don't have to be used simultaneously, but one needs to be on for the other to work) - in such a case only the 'dependent' power gets the Weakness, not the power which is being 'depended' on - that power can be used as normal - i.e. it, by itself, has no Weaknesses.

With an 'Activation Delay' Weakness both powers are effected - they both shut off if not activated close enough together, & they both can't be used for some time after - i.e. both powers must abide by the Weakness, neither can be used without the Weakness being activated, so both get the 'bonus'.

What we're looking at in this example is the '-3 Simulataneous Activation Delay - no dice-pool penalty' Weakness (although, if used well, it can almost be thought of as a huge bonus). So, all the Linked powers have to go off together (you've got no choice, it's all or nothing). This still only takes you one action, but does cost you the QP for each power, all added together (one of the big reasons for going Bodymorph instead in the first place).

So, with this Weakness, a character can actually 'stack' attacks (& get a points break at the same time). For each 6 Nova points you can then buy a dot of a level 2 power, with an Extra (but without an increase in power level). How about a Mental Blast (+ Agg), Quantum Bolt (+ Armour Piercing), Quantum Leech (+ Energy Siphon), Strobe (+ Sensory Deprivation Wave), Stun Attack (+ Burning)? A single dot of each, all Linked to go off at the same time, total NP cost = 30 (without Taint), costs 9 QP to activate. Ok, you're the equivalent of a 1st level D & D Magic-User (single bullet lifespan, one decent attack you can only do a couple of times before you're dry), but you have the satisfaction of having really abused the system! ::biggrin