Aberrant RPG - Ultimate Soak?

[Archer21]

Hey guys,

(Disclaimer: I am not a twink, simply a Storyteller new to Aberrant who's trying to find the holes in the system.)

I need some help. I'm trying to figure out how build the Ultimate Soak nova within the base amount of points(15bp and 30np). So far, I've come up with Invulnerability-5(Physical; Broad Category Extra), and then Eufiber-5(with the 3pt Eufiber Attuned Merit.) That's 45 soak, right?

So, without Taint, that takes 25 NP, and 5 of 7 free Backgrounds. Obviously, I can free up some NP by buying Invulnerabilty Tainted, which gives me 5 taint, and now Invulnerability only costs me 15 NP. So, still 45 soak, and 15 NP left over.

Any other suggestions?

[Finbar]

Add 3 NP for 1 dot of Mega-Stamin, and make sure Stamina itself is 5. That adds another 6 soak. Also, add on regular body armor, for another 3 points...That's what, a total of 54 soak?

FR

[Alex Green]

Ahem.

5 Eufiber (5 background)

5 Node (costs 3/5ths of a nova point) (ALSO +3 TAINT)

5 Stam (0 points)

+5 Mega-Stam (Res) (costs 15 nova points)

+1 Q(total of 4) (costs 5 nova points)

+1 Forcefield (costs 3)

+1 Density Increase (Extreme Density & APG option) (costs 5 nova points)

Total Nova cost = 29 points.

Average Force Field Soak is 4+2*(5*0.9+6*0.4+1) => 4+2(8.9) => 22/22

(note we spent a point of willpower on the FF roll).

Density Increase Soak is Normal (i.e. 2/2) plus we pump it to the maximum amount we can with quantum (17/17 since we need to spend 3 for normal DI). Our limit is 20 points of quantum per turn, so the FF needs to be turned on first.

Total Soak = 5/5 + 5/2 + 5/3 + 5/3 + 19/19 (DI) + 22/22 (FF)

Total Soak = 64/57

We spent 22 points of quantum getting to this point, and it will only last a few rounds, but it also works agaist small children with matches (which the previous character didn't). He isn't proof against Agg damage (but most agg is energy, so ditto the previous guy).

Other notes: We haven't done a lot of point shaving or min/maxing with this character. For example, we have an extra nova point, we could buy the DI tainted (saving 2 nova points), and get either a level of armor or a level of Mega-Int(taint resist) to keep taint at 3. We could also buy 6 points of flaws and save 5 nova points by moving the extra Q to freebies.

With min/maxing and taking a few aberations (Density Increase always on perhaps) I'm sure we could get a couple levels of armor (+6/+6) giving us a 70/63 soak or more, but that entails negotations with the ST.

One other note: As it stands, if he gets hit by surprise, he is toast. If combat runs longer than about 6 rounds, he is toast. With all the Density, he will have a mega-strength of 6 (thus actually having an attack... which is another improvement on the previous example) but you would be better off (by far) reducing his soak (and taint) and increasing his versitility.

Cheers ::devilangel

[ProfPotts]

The basic "huge Soak" tactic is to buy as much Mega-Stamina as possible, & then get at least a single dot in Force Field. This gives vast Soak (but only until the QP run dry).

The Invulnerability route is flawed, since you only get a huge Soak Vs certain attacks. Even the broad categories allow many attacks through (Invulnerability-Physical? Even a baseline can use a flamethrower or a Molotov cocktail). Buying both covers most (but not all - see "Mental Blast") attacks, but a huge NP cost. Simple Armour is good (universal & permanent Soak bonus). Impervious extra is vital to those who wish to be truely tough.

The best way to be really tough in Aberrant is to take those powers that make you harder to hit (in a "tough" way). A Bodymorph - Hard / Solid, plus a high level of Armour with the Superheavy Extra is a good start (& gives a good base Soak too).

Mega-Stamina is always vital. The Enhancements Adaptability & regeneration are must-buys for the "tough guy" concept - the first because even Invulnerability - Physical + Invulnerability - Mental + Invulnerability - Energy leaves you vulnerable to suffocation or a good gassing, etc.. The second because you will take damage, & the ability to "soak it up" (as well as "Soak" it) is very important. Mega-Stamina also gives extra Health Levels. On that note, check out the Extra Health Levels option for Bodymodification - it's ridiculously cheap (especially if you have enough Mega-Stamina to ignore wound penalties, so buy 2 Maimed levels per NP). You can never have enough Health Levels. (I rule a maximum of 5 levels can be brought on any Bodymodification that can be purchased more than once, the same as 5 dots can be brought in any other power, otherwise it can get silly pretty quickly).

[Archer21]

I see your point, but the character I was using does acutally have Agg Soak. Invulnerabilty provides protection against Agg.

So...Inv 5(Physical)=30 soak, Eufiber5(with Merit)=15 soak, Sta 5=5/2, Mega-Sta 1(Resiliency)=2/2

All together...30+15+5+2=52 bashing soak, 30+15+2+2=49 lethal soak, 30 agg soak.

Is that right?

Still enough NP left for some versatility....

[Archer21]

Ahhh...I see the fatal flaw: "FIRE BAD!" Major suckage.

So, really, the best combo lies in diversifying soak, health levels and difficulty to hit, correct? Sounds good to me.

[ProfPotts]

I see your point, but the character I was using does acutally have Agg Soak. Invulnerabilty provides protection against Agg.

So...Inv 5(Physical)=30 soak, Eufiber5(with Merit)=15 soak, Sta 5=5/2, Mega-Sta 1(Resiliency)=2/2

All together...30+15+5+2=52 bashing soak, 30+15+2+2=49 lethal soak, 30 agg soak.

Is that right?

Invulnerability 5 = +30 Soak (Vs Physical in this case) & costs 25 Nova Points

Eufiber 5 + Eufiber Attuned Merit of 3 = +8 Soak

Stamina 5 = +5 Bashing / +2 Lethal Soak

Mega-Stamina 1 (Resiliancy) = +2 Soak

= 45 Bashing Soak Vs Physical, 42 Lethal Soak Vs Physical

= 15 Bashing Soak vs everything else, 12 Lethal Soak

[Archer21]

Professor,

Thanks, I thought my calculations were off...yours makes more sense. Now, if I were to buy the Invulnerability tainted, it should only cost 15 NP, right?

Course, then I'm eating 5 Taint, LOL.

Any other ideas?

Everyone's explanations have been very helpful, thank you for all the suggestions so far.

[Alex Green]

So, really, the best combo lies in diversifying soak, health levels and difficulty to hit, correct?

Not really. The best thing to do is to figure out what you are trying to do, and go with that theme.

Example: "Dodge" based characters are very effective and don't need a lot of soak. Combat teleport, a good Mega-Dex, maybe Dangersense (intuition), and presto. But if that is what you are doing, then don't bother with Armor+SuperHeavy, get a couple of dots of Psy-Shield.

If you have a 50ish soak, then there isn't much point in buying "difficulty to hit." A couple of levels will prevent most baselines from nailing you, but nothing a baseline can do will get over the "puny human" barrier.

Things to worry about (in no order): Mental stuff, Agg attacks, Energy/Physical attacks, Area attacks, long term fights (more than 4 rounds), and maybe lethal attacks (a concern for low soak characters).

Have an idea on what you do against each of them. BTW, "getting killed" or "taking it on the chin" are acceptable options, if you are willing to live with that posibility. I.e. not all my characters have mental defenses, but all of them can do *something* about getting shot with a hand gun. Mental attacks are rare, guns are common.

A *very* overlooked point, have some way to run away. If you are a burn character (i.e. you go through all your quantum in 2 rounds) and it looks like combat is going to be 10 rounds, you should run away. Another way to put that is to play to your strengths, not your weaknesses. I have seen many characters put through the wringer because the players did the later, not the former.

[ProfPotts]

So, really, the best combo lies in diversifying soak, health levels and difficulty to hit, correct?

I'd say yes.

The "hard to be hit character" is "in-theme" for a super-tough guy if it's Superheavy Armour, etc., penalties for the enemy to hit you (as opposed to dodging attacks). The big advantage is that, even against other Novas, the number of times attacks hit you will be reduced, so you will, in the long run, take less damage. In many cases it's the only way to be "invulnerable" to an attack - remember that even a baseline can use a rocket launcher, "puny human" or not ::wink !

By "not being hit" (even though the special effect is uber-toughness) you also ignore certain other complications (such as knockback - although the Density Increase option is certainly the best reliable way to avoid this nasty little side-effect).

No matter how high your Soak, there will always be a way for you to suffer damage, so extra Health Levels are always going to be a must-buy for any character designed to be "tough". If you have 50 Soak, & the other guy hits you with an attack doing 58 Lethal Damage, you're dead without extra HL. More importantly, even if you use the (optional) "puny human" rule, many attacks will be doing that one "free" die of Bashing damage, that will slowly eat away at your HL - extra HL & Regeneration will off-set that to a large degree.

As for a "diverse" Soak, normal Soak (e.g. from Armour or Force Field) is always going to be the most useful. Impervious is nice, but Agg damage is pretty rare in the setting, so it's not a must-buy for the starting character (unless you know something nasty will be waiting in the first game session or so) - still it's wise to get it as soon as possible after chargen. The same goes for Mental Blast - nasty, but not too common; although a high Willpower is very important for all characters - something many Aberrant players forget in their rush to spend all their points on powers (even Captain Invulnerable is easy to "take out" by some quick Social-based rolls if his Willpower is 3)!

Point for point I'd say that Invulnerability isn't as cost effective as Armour. You need the Broad Category extra to be much general use (the power is really more for suited to characters with strong "elemental" themes & the like: e.g. Invulnerability to Fire for a flame based character).

Other options for a "hard to kill" character include: a HL draining Quantum Vampire, Quantum Leech + Mega-Stamina (Regeneration), Homunculus 4+ (takes a maximum of 1 HL from all attacks, apart from area attacks), Clone (never go into combat yourself), Density Control (both Increase, as Alex pointed out, & Decrease to just avoid damage entirely), Intuition & Luck (avoid damage in the first place), Matter Chameleon (with a max Soak bonus of the power rating x3, but still very nice), Sizemorph - Grow (extra Str, Sta, & HL), & probably many others as well.

Don't forget to get a dot or two in Sensory Shield & Psychic Shield - these two are so cheap it's just foolish not to indulge in at least a dot of each. A single Strobe or Mental Blast (or worse, Dominate or Empathic Manipulation, etc.) can leave even the toughest Nova easy prey if he hasn't taken these basic precautions ::smiley4 .

Last, don't be over-tempted by Eufiber. Sure it's cheap extra Soak, & an oh-so-cool morphing wardrobe (& totally twinked-out if the ST lets you use Eufiber Attuned &/or Weave from the APG), but it's also pretty easy to get hold of for free after the game starts - just beat-up another Nova who wasted his points on getting a 5-dot colony & steal his (for the cost of - shock ::nervous , horror ::crazy - a single QP) ::devil !

[Archer21]

So, if Force Field soak is Quantum(Auto) + (Stamina+Force Field dice pool)....

If a char has Mega-Sta as well, can he use the extra dice from Mega-Sta as part of his Stamina+Force Field dice pool?

::withstupid

[Archer21]

As an aside, where is all this stuff for Linking and Weaknesses and such? I only have the core book and the APG.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Standard rules apply for mega dice when using powers that require an attribute roll, ie. 1 success on a mega translates into 2 successes and if you role a 10 then you get 3 with forcefield that 10 translates into +6 soak.

Also how does your character have soak against agg without hardbody?

[Finbar]

Weaknesses are on page 141 of the APG, with linking cnsidered a weakness...

FR

[Archer21]

Okay...found the Linking stufff...thanks. It all makes sense now! ::biggrin

The Agg soak comes from Invulnerability.

[Alex Green]

Also how does your character have soak against agg without hardbody?

You get Agg defenses from Hardbody, INV, and/or Imperv.

(I'm tempted to also include Density Decrease and Dodge, but that is just me).

A strong argument can be made that there should be an extra for Absorbtion that would also allow it to be applied to Agg (although Hardbody would also do it).

Personally I have mixed feelings about all three of these.

Harbody is the most versitile, but costs q.

INV is overly specific.

Imperv is expensive (unless you have Q6+).

[Nullifier]

Actually, Absorbtion(Energy) should work against most Agg attacks, although any damage not absorbed would of course get through as Agg unless you had the Imperv extra, which is kind of a waste in this case...

[Alex Green]

Actually, Absorbtion(Energy) should work against most Agg attacks, although any damage not absorbed would of course get through as Agg unless you had the Imperv extra, which is kind of a waste in this case...

Definately an ST call, but I would say "No". You can't defend against Agg damage without a defense against Agg damage (HB, IMP, INV). Absorption doesn't cut it.

Similarly, Deflection can't redirect it, Forcefield (& other powers) can't block it, etc.

[Bayne Antioc]

Density Decrease would definitely help. In fact, at level 5 Density Decrease, The character is completely intangible to anything but psychic techniques. Have a little bit of soak for when you need to attack, and voila! Instant damn-near invulnerability.

[knave]

Bashing Damage - hurts you.

Lethal Damage - kills you.

Agg. Damage - kills you a lot?

Why?

Personally I think the whole idea of Agg. damage is a bit silly and is a hold over from the WoD. I don't recall any mention of Agg Damage in Bates's Systems - it only comes through in Aberrant.

Armour piercing makes sense, but Agg is just plain off. What's so super dooper about it anyway?

I think you want to represent an attack that does insane damage make it do A LOT of lethal damage. Why? Well - it's lethal - it's gonna kill you. Dead is Dead.

Debate over. Knave wins. Verily there was much rejoicing.

[Bahamut810]

I think that the reason they included the Agg damage was that there are some attacks that you just *cant* defend agenst that easily. Like plasma energy...I can see someone with an invunerability to heat/plasma being able to soak it (heat at 1/2 soak of course), but plasma is (from waht I understand) a state of pure energy that can disrupt something at a molecular level. Which is another power which I think aggrivated damage would be appropriate, attacks that do molecular damage.

But thats just me.

[knave]

trinity plasma guns don't do agg. damage.

Radiation damages things at molecular level, but spacesuits don't soak agg. mmmm. Dumb it is. Spoken Knave has. Agg. mockery will resistance lead to.

[phoenix]

Radiation damages things at molecular level, but spacesuits don't soak agg. mmmm. Dumb it is.

That's like saying that because water puts out fire, water should be able to soak all kinds of lethal damage. Either that, or it's pointing out inconsistencies between Trinity and Aberrant (which, admittedly, need straightening out) and submitting them as flaws in the Aberrant system.

[Bahamut810]

It could also be said that Spacesuits have a natural invunerability to radiation.

[knave]

That's like saying that because water puts out fire, water should be able to soak all kinds of lethal damage.

Yes it is. You may have noticed that I'm actually against agg. damage and that that comment was directed against the point that 'some things are hard to soak against'.

Some things are designed to soak specific things and that makes perfect sense. Just like the way different types of damage use soak differently. Falling for example. Radiation. Fire. Why add one more? What's the point? It's not like one type of damage is 'Special' - it makes you just as dead. What's the point of the 'Aggravated' category? You can have a 'Plasma' (Ooh - gasp ::crazy) Quantum bolt that does Bashing damage. Or a Radiation based Quantum bolt that does Lethal damage. Why add one more form of damage when it's no different? It's not special. On the soak front, if you can soak aggravated damage it doesn't make you harder to irradiate or plasma or hurt by falling. It's completely artificial.

Take agg. damage out of the system - what do you lose? Absolutely nothing. At worst you have to up the damage or decrease the level of a few powers. Big deal.

Put it in and suddenly you get questions like: Does chopping off someone's head with an axe count as aggravated damage? What if the axe was blunt and I was shouting 'You Effing Dufus!' at the time?

Why should Aberrant A's minute 1 die plasma bolt be impossible for a tank to soak when it can soak a direct hit from a mortar?

Dumb.

quod erat demonstrandum

[phoenix]

Why should Aberrant A's minute 1 die plasma bolt be impossible for a tank to soak when it can soak a direct hit from a mortar?

It could be a really small Q-bult the size of a bullet made of plasma at one million billion degrees. ::wink

But I see your point.

[knave]

Then again several things in aberrant are dumb. If Adaptation lets you teleport onto the sun it should also protect you from agg. damage.

It is perfectly possible to bring reasonability and game balance into agreement. Why not try?

[knave]

It could be a really small Q-bult the size of a bullet made of plasma at one million billion degrees. ::wink

The 1 Billion degree bullet that is guaranteed to give a tank a scratch and a granny a fleshwound.

Now that is extraordinary.

But I see your point.

Good man.

[Bahamut810]

Well...I can see where you are coming from on this one. Most times Aggro-damage *isent* going to come into play at all. But there are going to be times that someone is going to be able to reshape a persons innards, incinerate them from within, create a blackhole on someones forhead, open a mini-warp to the sun and let a blast of plasma out, ect, ect that might warrent near unsoakable damage. So far I only know of 1 PC on this entire site that uses Aggrodamage (unless someone is hiding something from me ::sly ) and that is Cid from the CC game. the reason he has that though is that he (initially) thought his power came from God and...well...your not going to be able to soak what God (with a cap G because of his character) can throw at you.

Again, MHO...but It does have a place in a High-damage/Low Soak/Low Health Level game.

[knave]

But there are going to be times that someone is going to be able to reshape a persons innards, incinerate them from within, create a blackhole on someones forhead, open a mini-warp to the sun and let a blast of plasma out, ect, ect that might warrent near unsoakable damage.

If you're going to create a power that does that then either: A) Preferably: Make it do obscene amounts of damage or If you must: decide that it is a different kind of damage that should be resisted with something else - Eg. Microwave radiation is blocked by space suits and half soak. Anything that involves sticking something inside you, use Quantum or Willpower or something to stop it getting inside you. (yes yes, laff it up ::tongue)

This way you don't get a situation where your black hole does 2 levels of agg. damage to your granny or the DMD by appearing inside them.

Actually it'd be highly embarrassing if your black hole appeared inside someone with buckets of Agg. soak and he ran off with it, fished it out of his next bowel movement and thereafter used it for bowling. Especially when you could define a Quantum Bolt as a Black Hole that does Bashing damage because it only sucks a little bit.

the reason he has that though is that he (initially) thought his power came from God and...well...your not going to be able to soak what God (with a cap G because of his character) can throw at you.

And if you CAN soak it because they can soak 6 levels of Agg. Time to change your belief system? It wouldn't be so funny if a sentient orangutan tore the soaker's head off 5 minutes later. RESISTANT TO GOD. VULNERABLE TO ORANGUTAN!

Why not just make sure that you're doing 60 Lethal. If someone can soak that and not be paste they should be able to soak 1 Agg.

Again, MHO...but It does have a place in a High-damage/Low Soak/Low Health Level game.

You are wrong.

You like complicating things needlessly.

Please don't write computer programs at any company that I may join after you leave.

Pretty pretty please. ::halo

[Nullifier]

So far I only know of 1 PC on this entire site that uses Aggrodamage (unless someone is hiding something from me  ) and that is Cid from the CC game.

Using the APG rules for gaining extras through maxing, any character with a damaging power is potentially capable of doing agg damage. Baring that, there are several other ways I can think of for PCs to do agg damage. ::sly

[knave]

Add complexity - that'll make it better.

I think the best system is the most elegantly simple system that allows you to do what you need to do. Some things don't help.

[Bahamut810]

If you want simple go play BESM 2e (or the d6 Tri-stat system). ::biggrin

[phoenix]

Doesn't Michael in QZ also have an Aggro Immolate? He used it in those tunnels on Melt Glacier's Popsicle Day before it all went to hell. Well, more than it already had, anyway.

[ProfPotts]

I'd just like to point out that radiation in Aberrant doesn't do Aggravated damage - it just does damage unsoakable by normal means (p. 257). Despite the misconceptions people often seem to have, nothing natural in Aberrant does Aggravated damage. Acid, for example, is better represented by a Lethal attack with a Burning effect than as Aggravated. Only specific Quantum powers can do Aggravated damage.

Aggravated is also not just 'unsoakable', but is also permanent against baselines - & hard to heal by Novas. As such it is a good way to represent some of the nastier effects of aberrant Taint-based attacks which are such an important port of the Trinity setting.

Aggravated damage (as stated on p.253 - 254) represents, "... particularly virulent nova attacks...", which inflict, "... complete tissue destruction...". Solar plasma, acid, et al, would not inflict Aggravated damage - it is unique to Novas & their Tainted ways. As such it is not really the same as 'Aggravated damage' in WoD games (where fire tends to do Aggravated, for example).

Chopping someone's arm off has a permanent effect, but still isn't Aggravated damage (since you can still heal to your full Health Levels with only one arm). Being scarred by flames (p.256 - 257) can result in permanent disfigurement, but again, isn't Aggravated damage.

Using Disintegration on a baseline & inflicting 5 levels of Aggravated damage means that the baseline in question is literally Maimed for life.

The fact that (if using the APG rules on maxing) any Nova can max to inflict Aggravated damage (by taking the Extra for 2 Max successes) just proves that the humans of the Trinity era are right when the call all aberrants 'Tainted'... ::wink

[knave]

I'd just like to point out that radiation in Aberrant doesn't do Aggravated damage - it just does damage unsoakable by normal means (p. 257). Despite the misconceptions people often seem to have, nothing natural in Aberrant does Aggravated damage. Acid, for example, is better represented by a Lethal attack with a Burning effect than as Aggravated. Only specific Quantum powers can do Aggravated damage.

Chopping someone's arm off has a permanent effect, but still isn't Aggravated damage (since you can still heal to your full Health Levels with only one arm). Being scarred by flames (p.256 - 257) can result in permanent disfigurement, but again, isn't Aggravated damage.

I fail to see how disintergrating someone's arm at the elbow is harder to heal than chopping it off at the shoulder. The arm is gone. Chopping a baseline's legs off means (IN ANY SANE UNIVERSE) that they are maimed for life on account of having no legs. I know you mean they have less health levels but that doesn't really track with the way the damage is presented.

Losing a lung might make you 'maimed for life' in the way you mean I suppose, but if a power works that way then it is unique enough to require its own description. Maybe it should be written up in a way that says A) The effect it has, How it works and C) How it is defended against (eg. This gas rots away your lung tissue and remains active in your system until you die. Those with Mega Sta. Adaptability are immune. ) Since in many cases having Diamond Agg. attack resistant armour really wouldn't protect you from that.

[ProfPotts]

Okay - you seem to have taken that in exactly the opposite way to the way I meant it.

A non-Nova character who takes Aggravated damage has his Health Levels reduced permanently. I.e. if reduced to 'Maimed' he will always be 'Maimed' (or less) & can never regain the lost Health Levels. This doesn't represent specific damage (like a lost limb or lung), but the general well-being of the character.

A character who has a limb chopped off may be 'maimed for life' (note the small 'm'), but will heal / regain all their Health Levels normally - i.e. they won't be stuck on Maimed for eternity.

Therefore Aggravated damage in Aberrant isn't just 'lots of damage' or 'specifically targeted damage' or anything similar. It's nasty overall debilitating damage - & unique to those who throw Quantum about.

[knave]

Prof, you may want to read what I wrote again.

[ProfPotts]

The point is that Aggravated damage, in Aberrant, is already defined - it's 'complete tissue distruction' caused by certain Quantum powers. If you create an attack defined as causing the target to loose a lung (as per your example) then you haven't created an Aggravated damage attack - since your special effect doesn't actually match what an Aggravated damage attack does. In a similar way having a defense against Aggravated damage defined as 'diamond armour' is also not really viable - since that special effect also doesn't really explain why it defends against 'complete tissue distruction'.

I fail to see how disintergrating someone's arm at the elbow is harder to heal than chopping it off at the shoulder.

It's not - but removing someone's arm doesn't accurately describe an Aggravated attack.

I know you mean they have less health levels but that doesn't really track with the way the damage is presented.

That's why you can't go round defining Aggravated damage attacks as chopping off body parts. You have to present Aggravated damage as what it is.

Therefore Aggravated damage in Aberrant isn't just 'lots of damage' or 'specifically targeted damage' or anything similar. It's nasty overall debilitating damage - & unique to those who throw Quantum about.

What I'm trying to say here is that Aggravated damage is, basically, one set special effect. There can be some minor variations on how that effect is achieved (one Nova may cause sub-atomic disruption, another may create a virus that shatters DNA - let's face it, it's a game of pseudo-science so it's not really that important) but the end result is pretty much the same. Just because an attack bypasses certain defenses, or inflicts a lot of damage, or inflicts some sort of specific damage (like loosing major organs) that doesn't make it the same as Aggravated damage.

... but if a power works that way then it is unique enough to require its own description.

Well, within the framework of Aggravated damage as discussed above, it does - it's called 'Disintegration'. Other powers can get the Extra, but the result will still be the same.

So, you can't really create a Wolverine clone character with Claws + Aggravated defined as 'being able to cut through anything' - because that fails to account for the Aggravated damage effect.

I'd agree that (as is often the case) Champions presents this sort of thing better - with both NND & AVLD attacks. But Aberrant has always been pretty setting-specific, & that goes for Aggravated damage as well.

Would the system work without Aggravated damage? Sure. Does Aggravated damage need to be removed from the system? Not at all, it just needs to be understood better.

It is easier to understand from a Trinity standpoint - call it a 'taint' manifestation / the ability to inflict so-called Taint-diseases or other incurable effects & you see the point of the damage type in the setting. Maybe WW's mistake was in naming the damage type the same as that in WoD which is used to kill vampires...

[knave]

Whether or not the tissue is completely destroyed is really neither here nor there and I don't think is very helpful to the overall discussion.

What you're saying boils down to this - the only way that aggravated damage is something other than lethal damage is if some Taint radiation accompanies it that breaks through defences and is left over in the body that then doesn't so much prevent wounds from closing - since, blatantly, you would die if that were the case, (and it may be a 1 point of damage) but lingers in the body preventing the body from ever being what it once was. Which is fair enough, but I still think it's an extremely bad way of implementing that particular effect for the fact that it is so broad a category as to be able to do 1 level of damage to a man and one level of damage to a tank or a mountain. Also, how do you implement an attack that leaves tainted damage, but isn't tainted as an attack.

Having a lung collapse on you on the other hand would benefit from an Aggravated type damage because you'll never be the same again without actually having the organ replaced (effectively regeneration).

At this point you start saying - does losing a lung constitute aggravated damage - because, as you say, by the book it shouldn't be, but in effect it is. This is the point the Health Level meter breaks.

I do agree with you that should you decide to stick with it, it should be called something else - Tainted Damage is nice. Debilitating Damage works too.

My other major issue with it is that given that the system favours damage over armour and that most deaths occur from 1 or 2 hits - especially if you allow APG Maxing - then you're basically forced into getting Hardbody and/or Impervious if you want to live to face ANYONE.