Trinity RPG - New Aptitude Idea

[Telgar]

Thinking on the Chitra Bhanu (my favorite Order) got me wondering, theres a Aptitude for Quantum, the polar opposite of what the Psions use, but not one for Psi itself? All the Aptitudes make *use* of Psi, but none of them really affect it directly.

My first, rather lame, attempt at naming it was Psiokinesis. Hard to differentiate from Psychokinesis. And it looks rather odd anyway. What else could you call it?

What do you think? Could an Aptitude based on manipulation of Psi itself be

workable? Is it a good idea?

[phoenix]

Interesting question. First of all, a better name might be Subquantakinesis, but I would say that perhaps all psi users have the ability to do that (or maybe just all latents) but because psions are so small that their manipulation can have no effect on their environment save the methods provided by the normal psi abilities.

Just my take on it, anyway. Welcome to the forums, and I like the signature ::bigsmile . Very true.

[Telgar]

I'd tend to agree, but QK proves that psions are able to manipulate forces as powerful as psi in general ways, even one like Quantum, which disrupt their own powers. So altering Psi itself shouldn't be beyond their ability.

My idea for Modes of Psi-kinesis (placeholder name) are pretty weak.

Blocking - stopping others from using psi powers, protecting yourself from psi

Augmentation - making other psi-powers stronger

Awareness- Sensing the presense/use of Psi

[phoenix]

QK proves that psions are able to manipulate forces as powerful as psi in general ways.

Power doesn't come into it, exactly. Psi is to quanta as versatility is to strength. Using psi to affect the universe involves manipulating psions, which are smaller than quarks, so you get a lot of control but not a lot of power (like a hammer). Using quanta involves using manipulating the other four basic forces, which are implemented through particles much larger than quarks. So you get a lot of power, but it's difficult to control, like a quarterstaff (if you're swinging it, not jabbing). I had a reason for mentioning this, but I can't remember it.

But anyway, I see your point. If you write it up (or have already) you should send it to the Powers section of the site - I think Chill's promising cookies to people that send him material (desperate much?). ::wink

[Telgar]

Nice analogy and explination. I agree.

As for writing up Psi-kinesis, I'm still beating the kinks out of the Mode concepts. Any feedback or suggestions on those would be great. I do have a Basic Technique though.

I wondered if some of the powers might affect Quantakinesis Modes and Aberrant/Nova abilities as well. Quantum and Psi disrupt eachother, so creating distortions in the local noetic field might affect Quantum as well. Taint has a negative effect on Psi, so why isn't the reverse true?

I'm having all sorts of odd ideas in this line of thought.

[VictorHFrost KSC]

to put an interesting spin on this little topic...

having been one of the three primary gents to have worked on the qk modes and alternate modes (the one that deals with these issues was one that i developed most of the descriptions and some of the system for) planned for use within india underground i must say that we actually do have some use of psi directly, as well as effects of using psions to directly stimulate quanta in its base forms. we all kinda figured that if anyone could use psi directly it could and should be the qks.

just some added input, later all

jake

[Slagheap]

Well while I don't really have anything constructive to add to the new aptitude conversation per se I do I a comment on one of Phoenix's comparisons of Psi and Quantum. Remeber that in "The Story Thus Far" they tell us that Psi is actually stronger than Quantum it just takes a lot longer to get to that point. I realize that APG does alot to kill that argument, but I ususally throw all those powers out anyway.

Anyway, that's all I had, you guys have fun.

-Slag

[phoenix]

Oh, undoubtedly - I only have the Trin and Abbie core books (I'm poor ::smiley4 !), so practically nothing I have to say is canon.

As for psi being fundamentally stronger than quanta, that goes against both my understanding of the physical laws of the Aeonverse (such as they are) and the examples set by the two. After all, Larsenn may be more powerful than the average nova, but how well do you think she'd do against Mal? So I'll just keep on telling myself that when they said "powerful", they meant "versatile" ::wink - which it is, in it's naturally occurring form (the psiad).

[VictorHFrost KSC]

the idea with psi is that it eventually can be used to manipulate atoms directly or through quantum use, therby making it ultimately the stronger force. this being said, the power input required for that is immense and therefore it is unlikely to ever be used as such. simply put its more like the difference between gunpowder and uranium. takes a lot more to detonate one than the other, but the one is more destructive if you can set it off.

jake

[Finbar]

My group and I debated having a meta-psi ability that worked as an extra ability that all psions could learn. The basic idea was that any psi could concentrate on his abilities and find ways to enhance his psi abilities, as well as how psi was used by others.

However, we didn't want to penalize someone who wanted something that could be problematic any more than necessary, so we ended up working with a single ability any psion could use. It stopped JUST short of being able to "dunk" without using a tank (that would have been too unbalanced)...

Of course, I ended up slapping on alternate abilities....

At any rate, if you wanted, I could post it here...

FR

[Slagheap]

While I like the idea of being able to add extras to Psi abilites, but that sounds pretty powerful Finbar. But regardless of that you should send it to Chill so he can post it on the site. I know he's hungry for new material.

-Slag

[Telgar]

I've managed to bang out a general description for Psi-K and its three modes. Still working on powers. Here's what I've got, please gimme some feedback?

Psikinesis

Psikinesis, also called Psi-K, is the second rarest Aptitude and the polar opposite of Quantakinesis. Psi-K deals with manipulating the local noetic fields directly instead of using them to accomplish other tasks. Though there was never a Psikinetic Proxy or Order, it is a fully developed Aptitude. Psi-K, like Quantakinesis, is an ability unique to humanity. Psi-K is remarkable in its ability to affect not only psi-based powers, but the quantum abilities of the Aberrants. The current theory is that Psi-K’s alteration of the noetic fields disrupts quantum in much the same way Taint disrupt other psi powers. Other Aptitudes are too focused a use of psi for this effect to take place.

Botching

A Psi-K botch isn’t as horrific as those of Biokinesis or Vitakinesis, but it isn’t anything to be taken lightly. Botched Psi-K attempts often result in warping the local noetic fields so badly that Psi powers become dangerously unstable in the region, possibly for long periods of time. It is also possible to severely damage your own noetic template with a Psi-K botch. There are rumors of Psikinetics reverting to neutrals, having burned the ability to channel psionic energy out of themselves.

Basic Technique

In Progress

Augmentation

Using the Augmentation Mode, a Psikinetic is able to increase the power and degree of control he and others are able to exert over Psi. Only highly skilled Psikinetics are able to use Augmentation at the same time as another Mode, therefor it is most useful when aiding Gifted allies. Unless stated otherwise, all Aptitudes are able to benefit from the effects of Augmentation. Augmentation increases efficiency and power of psi-effects by making subtle changes the noetic fields of the target allowing temporary increases in psionic power.

Disruption

The opposite of Augmentation, Disruption allows a psion to make it difficult, or even impossible, to use psionic or Quantum powers. Depending on which specific technique is used, Disruption can affect an area or a person. Formatted Biotech and Aberrant hypertech are also vulnerable to the effects of Disruption.

Disruption can affect Psi and Quantum powers with equal ease. The effects of this Mode create noetic distortions that effectively ‘jam’ Psi powers. Quantum powers are disrupted in the same way that Taint normally makes it hard to use Psi, basically creating Anti-Taint.

Alteration

This is the Mode most similar to Psychokinesis. It enables the Psikinetic to re-arrange psion particles and, by doing so, accomplish many feats. Alteration allows for creation of Psychic Dead Zones like the one that existed around the Upeo wa Macho Spaceport, but on a far smaller scale. It is also possible to ‘steal’ psionic energy from other psions, dampen or enhance the effects of backlash and even shield yourself from it for periods of time.

Some ideas for powers

Disruption 4 - Remove successes from Psi/Quantum powers used against you

Disruption 3 - Increase the difficulty to use Psi/Quantum powers inside a radius

Alteration 4 - Steal Psi points from other people

Alteration 3 - Give Psi points to others

Augmentation 3 - Add successes to Psi powers used by other people

Augmentation 5 - Add successes to your own powers

Thoughts?

[Finbar]

The biggest problem is that I think you're trying to do too much with one discpline. I mean, it's basically a good idea, but when you have a psionic aptitude that can counter both psi and quantum use you begin to have a problem. Although I appreciate the underlying logic, there is a problem in that you are also trying to allow some control over quantum-based abilities.

And that's where it falls apart.

In order to be able to influence quantum-based abilities, you need to either defiine it as mind-control (placing it in conflict with Telepathy) or blocking quantum from being controlled (placing it in conflict with quantakinesis). Some over-lap is OK, but when it is this direct, it just doesn't feel right...Now, if you really want to join them, work out a better in-game machanic to do it that doesn't step on another's aptitude's toe...

Other than that, however, it looks great!

FR

[Telgar]

I wanted Psi-K to work against Quantum powers because I think Psi can affect Quantum the same was Quantum does Psi. Taint is when Psi is disrupted by Quantum, so why doesn't Psi in large concentrations have a negative effect on Quantum?

I can't really figure out how the Chitra Bhanu were able to control Quantum at all unless Psi can have a similar effect to Taint, but in reverse. They manipulated it the way you might carve channels in sand to control the way water flows. Psi being the sand and Quantum the water.

So my idea is that Psi-K's Disruption Mode pumps a lot of psi energy into the local noetic templates to prevent psions from changing them around. The extra Psi energy warps Quantum flows, making Aberrants have to deal with the same problems Taint causes Psions. Psi-K isn't nearly as effective against Quantum as it as against Psi, but it does cause issues for Aberrants.

[Nullifier]

Actually, somewhere in Aberrant (I'm not quite sure exactly where... ::unsure ) it intimates that Psiad and Psions could counter powers with a straight Psi roll; in a similar way the Disrupt Nova power can be used to counter Psi modes. At least that's how it seemed to me. So I think it makes sense to have a Psi Mode that can counter both Psi and Quantum, seeing how Novas can do the same. Just my opinion. ::bigsmile ::blink

[Telgar]

Well, I've worked out everything but a Basic Technique for Psikinesis. That and non-systematic descriptions. I do think I have some balance issues, possibly serious ones. I'm not too familiar with Trinity. You guys think I should make a new thread for it or just keep going here? Its damn long...hmph. Makes me feel bad posting it.