Trinity RPG - Amalgamation

[SnakeEyes]

Hello again.

I was wondering- my game (using the campaign setting I am writing at the moment) is going to try and mix (partially, not totally) WoD and Aeon Continuum, just for novelty value.

I know it's not gonna be easy, so I'm only including big details (i.e. Umbra, Tass, the ones that are incredibly interesting and hard to miss), and residents of WoD will be spotted once in a blue moon.

Has anyone here tried this? If so, how did you manage it?

[Alistaire]

Actually, I haven't done it, and probably won't (not because *I* wouldn't like to, but getting everyone to agree on stuff would be hard), but this does inspire me for a comprimise of sorts: Just for fun, do deathmatch style competitions between Trinity characters (or even Ab or Ad), and you WoD denizens. Doesn't have to be part of a plot or anything, just a fun thing to do on the side. Sort of like the "What If?" comics!

::ninja ::hehe

[Ayre el KaBeer]

if you're talking starting characters then vamps would loose, the main advantage WOD critters would have over aeonverse is that they have to roll up a 6 rather than a 7 to succeed... actually that's a big bonus!!! let the battles comense!!!!

[SnakeEyes]

Succeed at what? Damage is 7 in WoD, and if I remember rightly (and I should considering my current campaign is WoD) 7is classed as normal difficulty- though I may remember wrong...

And as for arguing- maybe I'm just lucky, but I've never had that problem with my WoD crossovers.

I like the deathmatch idea though...

And, yeah, vamp are pretty pathetic at the beginning...

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Standard diff. in WoD is is 6 check it.

[chloe]

deathmatch style competitions between Trinity characters (or even Ab or Ad), and you WoD denizens. Doesn't have to be part of a plot or anything, just a fun thing to do on the side. Sort of like the \"What If?\" comics!

This has been suggested in our group for the DnD characters to go up against the Wheet of Time ones... Could be interesting!

There's loads of wonderful advice for cross overs in Mummy: The Players Guide. I think that there'd be loads of vampires, hiding in amongst all that urban blight etc. Very few old ones though. Y'know, a bit like in Cyber City Oedo 808. I think it was part three with the vampires...

::biggrin

Chloe

[JEstr]

Well Psychonkinetics would just kill vamps wholesale.....might have trouble with wereswolves...but prolly not....as to abberants, they would most likely wipe the floor with anything WOD could throw thier way except perhaps Mages.....Mages are the only thing that would really stand a chance, seeing as how they wouldn't have to worry about paradox more than likely. Of course if you count the exalted setting...things get REALLY nasty real quick!!!

[chloe]

Mages are the only thing that would really stand a chance

What about the Mummy's? They'd kick ass!

...and if you killed 'em, they'd just come back, and back, and back, and back, and...

::tongue

Chloe

[SnakeEyes]

I'll believe you on the difficulty issue- and I'll check again later. So I remembered wrong. Oh well.

As for Mages- aberrants may be given a run for their money if they meet a marauder, as they just defy logic, and the nephendis may be tough oppnents as well.

Now the problem with mummys is that it could take weeks or even centuries to return. And then there is no guarantee that they will return. Their soul may be destroyed by the spirit storm (can't remember what it's called) or they may be deemed no longer worthy and not resurrected.

The Vitakinetics with Algesis would find the mummys or 'Living Dead' (Walkers, Shamblers or Hiders) a pain in arse though- I mean, how would you use 'Premature Decomposition' against something that is already dead? Vamps wouldn't be a problem, as they are physically weak and pathetic compared to the Mummys and Zombies (or Wraiths if you push it), as the latter two can withstand rediculous amounts of punishment.

But gong back to my original post- should I include vampires away from earth, or should I do what 'that film' (can't remember it's name) did and say that vamps cannot cope with space travel?

I have the werewolves and Mages all figured out. As for the Hunters, well, that's simple.

[Finbar]

Re: Vamps

Actually, given that they tend to be sneaky and wear their opponents down, I think they'd do rather well...Also, their Presence and Dominate disciplines would be highly useful (especially considering the auto-success vs. non-Awakened; do psions count?)), and some can do agg damage (such as Protean's claws) at low levels. Basically, I think they'd do fine...

As far as mages vs. abbies, though, I'd pay to see that fight. The abbie has the raw power, but the mage has enough versatility it should be interesting..."Yeah, you can move mountains, shrug off a nuclear bomb, and blast planets...But can you survive a Britney Spears movie, playing for eternity in your head?";-)

As for the rest, keep in mind that most of the WoD guys have the advantages of being around for millennia, being part of a powerful society, or both, whereas the Aeon Universe has only, what two centuries, and most of the groups have only been around a few decades....Even in a one-on-one death match, that has to count for something...

FR

[chloe]

vamps cannot cope with space travel

You what? Why's that? I'd've thought that it would've been the werewolves with the problem, you know, having all the natural cycles of the moon stuffed up by space probes and not being on earth and stuff. A ww born on the moon could be, like, mega-metis or something!

Hoooowl!

Tasty trinity PC's...

::smiley10

Chloe

[SnakeEyes]

It was the metabolism- elgee or zero gravity, even the G's from take off, would destroy the vamp (don't ask me why, that was the only explaination given).

As for werewolves, yeah, it probably would screw them up for a while, (think about how it'd be for the bastet, who care for the Saline (moon) more than Gaia (earth)), but they'd get over it. No the biggest obstacle between WW's and space is their beliefs, which is why pretty much the only types of WW you'll see in space are the Glasswalkers and Bone Gnawers.

[T-dev]

Older vampires would be problem, especially the Antidiviluans ( how do you beat a guy who is so powerful as to be unrated in the game system).

I would say Vamipres can travel through space if the proper precautions are taken. Why wouldn't they ba able to? Granted in solar space the sun is always shining, but when I have got vacuum proof shapeship hull between me & the sunlight. Just make sure my room has no windows. The interesting question is could they stay awake.

Another area Wod vampires have an adavantage is abilities above which at max you have a 6 in the Continium.

One nasty sidepoint is that since the Matter sphere in Mage effects Vampires I would say that Matter Manipulation would too.

I want to see a Continium invades the WoD campaign myself. Somehow have all the characters types from all three games unite & invade the WoD. That would be awesome. I want to see Divis Mal, Max Mercer, Caestus Pax, & the Proxies take the big boys of WoD on.

Bruce Baugh actually did a conversion chart for the difficulty question somewhere. Check his homepage.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

The reason i read in one of the books as to why vamps cant go into space is some spritual reason, the 'curse' prevents the from leaving earth, don't really know why... don't really care either. ::closedeyes

[chloe]

don't really know why... don't really care either

Can't say I blame you with a lame reason like that... ::biggrin

Assuming they can though, all sorts of interesting probabilities open up! I'm thinking Tzimisce getting their paws on a Chromatic or two. All sorts of ghoul'd lackies too! Plus Trinity has a (IMHO) strong 'conspiracy theory' bent - a game we all know the Vampires would win, no contest!

Food for thought!

Chloe

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Just had a bad thought, when finbar said some of the vamps can do agg. damage i remembered fangs! the b@stards can all do agg. I just remembered the time my Salubri warrior bit through the neck of a Baali scum (well i think he was Baali, he could have just been an apostate of another clan).

[JEstr]

Hmmm...in the end I think it comes down to only a few things.....yes antideluvians are nasty...but can they match Divis Mal for power? Sure they are intelligent to....but Mal is Super Intelligent. Power to destroy the planet? Pah....he can create his own universe....not to mention that he could start "erupting" people in WOD and make some more potential allies....or at least create chaos......It would be interesting and I think in the end the Mages just might turn the trick but after reading some of the high level Abb powers and even some of the high level Psi powers....I dont' know..

[SnakeEyes]

Antediluvians vs. Divis Mal- Two words (well, sort of words):

Baba Yaga ::devil

Just saying her name sends shivers down the spine of the WoD universe. I mean, damn, anyone who can have a TARDIS tree house with as many rooms as Disc Worlde Death's Mansion which is perched on top of two 10-foot chicken legs AND be the most powerful sorceress (and possibly the oldest surviving vampire) on the planet has got to be a formidable foe for anyone.

And if the La Sombra ever teamed up with the Nosferatu and Malkavians (who are disturbingly knowledgable and unpredictable), they'd have enough power to give Divis Mal a run for his money (They'd still probably lose, but they'd knock Mal for six whilst doing so!)

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Baba Yaga

Is dead!!!

Anyway I'd be more concerned with Goratrix, that b@stard came up with the tremere diablerie of saulot!

Anyway Divis can't be compared to an antideluvian, the closest thing on his level is Cane!

[Asbjørn]

I'm thinking Tzimisce getting their paws on a Chromatic or two

How about a Tzimisce getting his hands on BioTech...? There's a nasty idea for you.

And about werewolves in space: Glasswalkers and Bonegnawers, of course. And Silent Striders (who'd go anywhere), Shadow Lords (who'd go anywhere there's people to control), Red Talons and Black Furies (who'd go anywhere there's weaver to fight) Get of Fenris (who'd go anywhere there's anyone at all to fight), Silver Fangs (who'd go anywhere there's other garou to command) and so on.... Not to mention that they'd have to follow their kinfolk. Agreed, it would **** up their spiritual cycles (which is an interesting thing for an Uktena to examine, by the way...), but I see no reason why there shouldn't be plenty of garou in space.

[Nullifier]

Actually, I think The Book of The Heavens covers the whole Garou in space angle. Anywhere outside the Horizon is the Deep Umbra... Unless you want to have a Horizon on each human/alien/nova inhabited system... At any rate, check out that book. ::bigsmile

[T-dev]

I think the question of how a Continium invasion of WoD would depend on when it happened. Because If it was Baba Yaga & Ravanna were destoryed then you have serious problems for the Continium.

Another thing to think about is that Mal is very very powerful, but he is young. The Antidivulians are super intelligent too, their traits can be 10, & have between 7 & 10 thousands experience, expect for Tremere who only has a little under 2000 years experience. Consider at the max, Mal is going to have a Mega-Int of 6 or 7 as of 2008. Also, his quatum is an 8 as this point, so he can't make universes yet. Don't forget that Antidiluvians can have 10's in any trait. That is superhuman. Also let's not get into level 10 disciplines.

As to Cain, if the source material actually given is used then Caine would just stomp Mal. Why? Cain makes up disciplines as he goes. So he meets Mal & comes up with a discipline that at level 12 (his trait max) just automatically cases an m-r node to cease to exist or one that automatically mimics the drug that the Directive has which causes a m-r node not to function for 5 minutes & then he eats Mal.

Cain can do anything.

One last thing to consider is that a mage could push anyone outside of time & leave them there with a high enough time sphere effect.

[Finbar]

First: Tremere has just under 200 yrs. of experience? I thought he wasn't even around until the 1300's...Which would only give him around 700 yrs or so...The others have a limit of 6000, at best...And Ravnos is a rather impish 2000 or so ::rolleyes ....However, those Level 10 disciplines, while potentially nasty, can fall too easily against a prepped sorcerer, much less someone who is reputed to have created the Abbie War...Don't forget, Mal is a genius on his own level, and against someone plotting against him, that's going to count , especially as he has the power and time to back it up...

Second: Garou in Space...Ignoring any Pigs in Space comparisons ::sly ....Each planet also has its own horizon, as well as its umbral rep...I especially liked Mars....

Third: Time Sphere vs. Nova: However, would you want to leave someone with a Mega-Int outside of time? How long before he manages to get to a battle, sees what's going on, and hooks up with paradox spirit? That's a combo that could get way too interesting, way too quick!

Fourth: Cain vs. Mal: THAT would be fun to watch...for about two seconds...First attack for whoever makes it will win, and they're both invisible to the other's powers of Detect Power (Cain can't detect Quantum, Mal can't detect supernaturals). Talk about an interesting game of tag...

Fifth: Okay, enough sig/rare characters. What "regular" characters; given roughly, say, 250 XP, and normal (ie, no house rule, strictly by the book) who'd win? And why...

FR

[Ayre el KaBeer]

My elder salubri warior has about 250 xp invested in him, probably closer to 300, and he is no way a match for a Nova with even 30 xp tacked on to their 30 nova points.

And Tremere has been around for ages, first as a Mage, then as a Tzcimice, then as the most hated clan... by me and all the members of our rpg group, they are the biggest rought in the history of any vampire clan and their flaw is pathetic. By the way Goratrix was also responsible for coning the Tzimisce into turning that particular group of mages into vampires, I tell you he was behind everything! I'm convinced it was him who arrainged the destruction of the Tremere antitribu even through he was their leader.

[T-dev]

To second Ayre el Kabeer's comment Tremere has been looking around for quite a bit. Cannonical I can prove he was around at least as far back as say 4th century Ad because he founded House Tremere of the Order of Hermes, so he is at least 1700 years old. As to the other Antidiluvians, the 2nd edition VPG has lot of them founding Egypt at 5000 BC & it is a safe guess that the Second City & the Deluge was a good deal before that. So conservedly lets say 8000 years old for the majority of the Antidiluvians. Although you could argue that they all where before the Deluge by the fact of there name.

As to the Time Sphere issue, it works like this. At level 4 the character can stepp outside of time & at level 2 he can see the future. So A Mage could see the novas coming, know when it was going to happen, & stwp outside of time when it does. Now for intents & purposes all other beings experiencing time are frozen. He then uses a very minor Correspondence effect to locate the aberrants. Then with a level 5 time effect you can pull them out of time & be sitting half way across the planet & then you uses some Correspondence & Spirit to move them Malfeus & let the Wyrm eat them.

As to the level 10 disciplines, one makes you invulnarable. A sorcerer vs an Antidiluvian is an automatic win for the Antidiluvian according to VtM

Oh & by the way, with enough Auspex you can see the future. Now I would say that the limit of any precognition is your own universe, so in this case the WoD baddies have the advantages since the Continium baddies are coming to their playground. Cain simplies sees Mal coming & makes up a new quantum affecting discipline on the spot. When Mal arrives he use the level 8 Temporis power to set outside of Time & eats Mal after he strips Mal of his M-R Node.

[T-dev]

As to the average WoD character vs the average Nova. Well come on, the Nova wins hands down. Psions are more on par with the power level & so are Adventure! characters.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

I'd say adventure characters are more on par and are still more versatile (maybe alittle weaker), psions are still higher up on the food chain when it comes to WoD characters. Don't forget it's cheaper for a Psion to go up in power levels than it is for a vampire of any clan excluding tremere... Damned sons of... Ahh sory... I can't help it i hate the tremere clan that much! Oh yeah psions also start with more dots to put in powers. Though psions can't have more than 1 in an alternate mode having 3 modes at 5 makes up for it in my book.

Now on the other hand a Vamp has fangs and should your pc (being human) get bitten then there is nothing they can do to get out of it, no power, no weapon... this goes for mages too. Get bitten and the person falls into a wonderful (if terrifying) state they become completely sedate while they are being drained dry.

[chloe]

...I don't see why they can't all just get along...

::biggrin

Chloe

[Finbar]

You get out of a game for a few years, and...Okay, I'll admit to being wrong re: ages, but...

1) I was under the impression that vamps start with three dots in disciplines, with one being cheaper than the others...And, yes, Tremere rule...

2) I hate to turn sides, but...With all the blood pool advantages, organizational advantages, and the "create new vamps" abilities, and their disciplines, I think it would be an interesting fight...Keeping in mind their special abilites, the same would be said of garou as well...

3) Although I hate comparing power levels, I think Inspired would be better mortals (both have enhanced abilities, but definite drawbacks), psions would be equivalent to vamps and garou (abilities and tech versus special and racial abilites), and novas would equal mages (power vs. versatility).

4) And mages in their own world have a disad: Paradox. In the continuum world, I think they'd actually have a lot fewer worries re: that issue...

Just a quickie....Was it as good for you as it was for me?

FR

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Just a quickie....Was it as good for you as it was for me?

I'd say i was faking it, but i don't think guys physically can. ::blink

[notsoangrydave]

in Mal vs. anybody, Mal wins, hands down - think about it, Mal would at least research the place he's going to, right? then he finds out there are vampires there that don't like the sun.

his first course of action is to *become* a sun, then travel. Caine is definitely not happy when he finds out it's day *everywhere*, then Mal hits him with the super-sun when he falls asleep, since vamps fall asleep during the day.

Mal wins.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Cains curse, if i remember correctly hasn't got anything to do with the sun, i think that part came with the second or third generation vampires.

[SnakeEyes]

'Tis true. Cain was only cursed to enternal bloodlust and undying. The sun stuff came about after the building of Nod in the later generations.

And anywho... Vampire don't really die (At least as far as I know) they fall into torpor- so Mal would be in for shock when vampires he 'destoryed' years, maybe even centuries earlier appear, really pissed off, and start hunting him down. Of course, Mal may be able to destroy them again, but sooner or later, the vamps are gonna rat out every weakness they can can find, and use it. And even if they don't find a weakness, they'll just hit him when he least expects it... cunning bastards, vamps are.

[T-dev]

As to the Mal the sun thing,

10th level Thaumaturgy allows you walk in sunlight for a whole year & 2nd level Daimonian makes you immune to fire. You think Cain ain't got that going?

Here is the problem, Mal still has to get new stuff through experience. Cain just comes up with them as he goes. He can literally make stuff up on the spot. That is why Mal would lose. Also anything 3rd generation or lower cannot be beaten by lessors ( ie not 3rd generation).

Remeber the might of the KoE & the Technocracy could not kill Ravanna. It was good sunlight that did it.

I mean Cain could just go totally incoporeal,make himself immune to mental power, not need to sleep, & make up anti-nova powers.

[chloe]

This is getting interesting!

What would the hunters make of the novas?

::biggrin

Chloe

[T-dev]

I think it would go down much in the same way it did in the stadard setting. The masses would prety much love nova. The WoD could use them & Project Utopia is really a step up for that setting.

[SnakeEyes]

I agree with t-dev- but aren't hunters WoD's own version of aberrants (though a bit dampened down)? I mean, they've been imbued with strange powers that no human should have, they are people who weren't supposed to be part of WoD, and just lead their lives like everyone else who isn't part of WoD- blisfully ignorant of the horrors that surround them. It's just weaker novas in a different setting.

[T-dev]

Depending on who you talk to, Hunters are suppose to more connected to Exalted then Abberant. There is suppose to be some connection to the uber-plot.

Novas are just too over the top. That is the way they are suppose to be.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Hunter Bah! The most disapointing core book I've seen, so i could see why the game sold so well on Xbox because it's too much of a shoot'em'up and hack&slash! Demon Hunter X, a manual about a 3rd of the size and a 5th of the cost of Hunter and what WW should have based Hunters off. Sorry got over excited!

Anyway how great a read was it when Ravnos was killed? ::laugh Stupid Technocracy!

[Asbjørn]

Anyway how great a read was it when Ravnos was killed?  ::laugh Stupid Technocracy!

This sounds interesting... I'm doing a story with a Ravnos in it, and have always felt that writing the big guy off as dead is a bit to easy. Do you know anything I don't?

A