VictorHFrost KSC Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 This is from the man himself, according to baugh on the ww forums, thought everyone here'd want to know."Here's the current word as I have it for Aeon Continuum supplements: No.And the reason for it is very simple. A new World of Darkness book, costing the same to create as the equivalent of Aeon Continuum book, will sell three times more copies. Or more. Ditto for Sword & Sorcery releases.You may safely assume that I personally am not done writing or developing pulp and sf, and the same is true for many of my fellow creators. But right now I see no reason to expect our future work in these fields to appear under the aegis of the Aeon Continuum. There's one unpublished manuscript for Trinity I'd really like to get out, and I _think_ - though of course circumstances could change - that that'll be the end of that run."sorry all, i know it sucks (oh good god i know it sucks) but thats the line.(a very sad) jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slagheap Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Tis a sad day for us all. I personally would like to tip my hat to everyone who worked on the line proper, You guys have done one hell of a job! Thanks for all your hard work.We should still keep the dream alive. Our Fan book projects are now even more important than they were before. We don't need corporate support to keep playing the games we love.Vive le Aeon!-Slag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knave Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Hey - as long as there is some support for the line - and they're not going to produce any more books - they might still sell it to someone who is going to do something with the game... that's what happened to ars magica.as for the rest... Slagheap - I share your sentiments exactly. Here here to Bates and Baugh and everyone who worked on the line.-knave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorHFrost KSC Posted October 26, 2002 Author Share Posted October 26, 2002 i doubt the line will be sold to anyone actually, its so ingrained with the ww system and mentality it'd take a strong willed publisher to develope it with their rules (which might incur legal problems) or rerelease the books with new system info. its more likely the line will wait in publisher purgatory til it gets the final official axe (not unlike wraith) and is quietly swept under the rug.sad sad, least we got word though, i don't know how many wraith players i used to know waited anxiously for books for years until they finally got the info that it was dead.jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILL Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 a shame, granted. ::smiley4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezekiel Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 This better not mean no AsAs... ::dry ::ninja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knave Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 i doubt the line will be sold to anyone actually, its so ingrained with the ww system and mentality it'd take a strong willed publisher to develope it with their rules (which might incur legal problems) or rerelease the books with new system info. its more likely the line will wait in publisher purgatory til it gets the final official axe (not unlike wraith) and is quietly swept under the rug.while i agree with you on the likelihood of sale - i really disagree about the system. if you take a look at ars magica - you'll see that atlas did some very minor system fiddles (improvements really) and only re-released the core book after they bought it from ww. I mean - you could convert it to percentile easily enough and maintain the current difficulties.-knave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dataweaver Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 The probabilities aren't what I'd be concerned with; ease of play and flexibility of character design/advancement would be the touchstones that I'd use. Besides, licensing the games out to someone else wouldn't neccessarily require a change in the underlying rules system, as long as WW was willing to license out the system as well. It becomes a question of whether or not the resulting license would be financially feasable. That, and selling the game to someone else opens up the possibility for drastic changes to the setting which trample the original vision. I'd want Bruce and company to retain a say in how the Aeon line develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knave Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Well - Bruce pretty much answered that question on the ww forum too... - highly unlikely for any sort of licensing to happen. He implied that he would likely want to be involved in something 'in the same spirit'.-knaveps - i agree completely about the ease of play issue - the point is that it could be done without affecting existing material - with some sort of conversion chart - or even a dodge like doubling all scores and using a d20 instead.-knave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradise Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Well, for a long time I have been working on home brew rules for a game like Aberrant.The world would be set in a realistic world.there wouldd be a few type of super powered people.. the main two could be awakened,and assended. the players would be awakened.. about as powerful as psaid maybe a little more so.. Assended would be like devis mal.the game starts in 2013.. at witch point there are roughtly 60,000 awakened and 30 assended. Just go over it term awakened are liek spider man, assended are liek silver suffer.the way the power levels work is that where the best of the humans end the awakened start,and where those end the assended asssend.Well sorry if this off topic,I want there to be liek a alternate time line from say unaverse making... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlequin Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 what can be said... other than hopefully white wolf changes it's mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operations Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 It could also be said that I was right.The whole "e-book option has done better than hoped" line was a bunch of crud and I knew it. You can't tell me when they're selling the Core Trinity book at retial for less than the costs of printing and shipping that they were not out to kill the line.But at least now they finally let Baugh come out and say it. Knowing the nature of non-disclosure agreements, I'd bet he's known this for 6 months or more but could not say anything.Would have been better for PR if WW had not dragged this out and over the course pissed a lot of us Aeonverse fans off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Watson Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 I've got plans. The fan projects, as mentioned, are now more important than ever.I'm talking to people. Big things are likely on the horizon, don't you worry. (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorHFrost KSC Posted October 29, 2002 Author Share Posted October 29, 2002 ops, not to rain on the parade here, but baugh specifically contradicts you on the paperback issue. you are not correct on that one. the ebook did better than hoped, well i never even heard that line, and have no clue what you mean there, but baugh himself directed a post at you detailing exactly what was up with the paperback deal, mayhaps you missed it:Anyone who thinks the paperback lost money wasn't paying attention to the explanations Andrew Bates gave at the time. I'll repeat:Each run of Trinity paid for itself. So when it was time for reprint, all the costs of writing, illustrating, editing, design, etc., were paid. The only costs for the new volume were errata and the added pages, and a bit of re-design for the different covers. And that's it. The softcover could therefore be priced quite low to attract attention. Which it did, just not enough in the long run. Anyone who says otherwise is now officially speaking in denial of statements by both Trinity developers, and anyone else should feel free to put the burden of proof on them.as mr. baugh said. the wolf wasn't deliberately trying to take the line down, regardless of what you may think. the line wasn't supported as well as it could have been, granted, but if corporate really hated the line that much they'd have dropped it completely without all the dicking around neh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pax's_Pimp Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 I gotta agree there. No company would deliberatly take down a line that could make them money. I will agree that it is possible that WW saw the writing on the wall and dropped prices drasticly so as to eek every penny out of a line that was dying on its own. I guess what I am trying to say is that it is just bad business to deliberatly try and make a line fail when it has the possibility of beign pretty cool.-Pax Raise up your glasses and here is a toast to all the writers, and developers, and artists who helped bring us the whole Aeon line. ::beer Cheers to all of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 *raises his glass* What a long, strange trip it's been. While this news most definitely sucks lemon, let's try to take a more positive view of things. True, the line won't continue, but now the game is ours. As long as one copy exists somewhere we can still play and share in the fun that we've had in the years since Trinity and Aberrant came on the scene, and anyone who doesn't think Adventure is cool needs to have their head examined. The RPG marketplace is a hard nut to crack, and few seem to have the guts to dare beyond the traditional Anglo-Celtic Tolkien's-leavings crap that passes for entertainment these days and take risks with new ideas and concepts. While I'm not thrilled with White Wolf for cancelling the lines, I respect them for trying. They went out on a limb for games that went beyond the borders, and some lines succeeded (WoD) and some didn't (Aeon), but at least they tried. This makes EONCon more important than ever I guess. We can get together and have in Irish Wake for one of the finest game lines out there. Here's to you lads. ::withbeer -Def. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythagore Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 As everybody has already said - this is sad news. But at the same time I see a lot of potential as well. If everyone here loves the games as much as it seems there will hardly be any problems creating new fanbooks, or similar projects. This is a boost, if anything.It is for me, at least. Right now I could either see this as a defeat and say "well, might as well give up Aeon and go play "Engel" instead", or I could say "I came to the Eon Forums at the exact right time".Anyone with me?(sorry if this post didn't make much sense. Sometimes my english fails me, depending on how tired I am. Right now I am really tired, so I'm not sure if I got what I wanted to say through.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILL Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 ::thumbs-up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorHFrost KSC Posted October 30, 2002 Author Share Posted October 30, 2002 i think we get you just fine pythagore, and i'll bet we all agree. thumbs up thumbs up. here here to e-books and other such merriment in spite of recent events. jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operations Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Each run of Trinity paid for itself. So when it was time for reprint, all the costs of writing, illustrating, editing, design, etc., were paid. The only costs for the new volume were errata and the added pages, and a bit of re-design for the different covers. And that's it. The softcover could therefore be priced quite low to attract attention. I really wish I could believe that, but I don't. The accountant in me screams bullshit. If that was true, why not do the same with Aberrant? Or Changeling? Hell, Vampire MUST have paid for itslef by now, why not sell it for 15$ and try and take business away from D&D.Sorry, something is not right here. I'm not saying that Bruce is lying, but I'm not saying we got the whole skinny here either. ::exclamation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorHFrost KSC Posted October 31, 2002 Author Share Posted October 31, 2002 the reason it doesn't happen with the other books is because you have to convince corporate to take such ventures in the first place, bruce probably had to talk them into that as an attempt to gain more support for the line. they got less for that book after print to be sure, thats just simple economics, but they didn't lose money and keep going, thats just absurd. you're inner accountant may be lying to you. a corporation ceases activity on lines that lose money. the other games may not have been fought for as hard or in the same way. changeling has been slow going for years, this move was most likely a new take on the situation. aberrant was already softcover, there was no reduction in print cost to coincide with the drop in price like trinity. the implication that there was some subversive attempt to drown the line isn't founded on anything but speculation. and as for why they don't drop price on vampire, would you? you'll get a guaranteed return even if you leave the price at 30 or whatever it is now. there's no real reason to drop it any. they don't care about taking fans from d&d, they don't have to, they own ravenloft for goodness sakes, d&d helps their sales too.jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operations Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 On the mailing list maintained by D Brooks Bruce also says this in regards to the cancellation-There are many details here I can't tell you. I don't know all the economic ins and outs at WW HQ myself, and I'm not at liberty to tell you much about the negotiations I was involved in. Trust me when I say that the issue got worked over very thoroughly and carefully from a wide variety of informed perspectives.Which means that I'm right about him not having the full skinny on the book costs problem. However, he does admit that the e-books only sold 10-20% of what hardcopy does (assuming that figure is compared to AuAu, but he doesn't go into more detail than that). Which is funny because when the e-books went up, Conrad said they were quite happy with sales. Maybe they looked at first week only and projected wrong. Who knows. But the hardcopy for 15$ still bugs me, and this line makes it bug me more. Either someone wanted to make the line die, or someone in WW accounting needs to be fired. ::teleportsmiley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aninemity Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 ....at this point does it really matter? i mean what done is done. the decision has been made and there's nothing we can do about it other than to continue to support the line as we have been...playing the game and enjoying it. playing the blame game or proving you're right or wrong at this point doesn't change the facts. ...yes, this is a disappointment, one that bursted a few bubbles and was expected as inevitable by others, but really, i know i don't care how it happened...i just know it did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorHFrost KSC Posted October 31, 2002 Author Share Posted October 31, 2002 here here! give the lady a beer :saki: i like her thinkin'jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILL Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Drinks are on me.Perfectly put Tiff *tips hat* ::chillbeer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlequin Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 *nods* agreed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thingmaker Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 I was under the impression that printing and shipping costs were extremely variable. Do not details such as quantity of the run, size & number of pages, and quality of binding all have an effect on per-unit cost? I've seen hardcover books with twice as many pages sell for ten bucks a pop.I am mightily hesitant to suspect anybody of conspiricy to commit Trinicide. I am also hesitant to suspect industry professionals to make "huge mistakes." I am much more likely to believe that things I really like are seldom as popular with the masses as things I sort-of like.KT, don't blame WW, blame the pedestrians! (Assuming that there's a need for blame in the first place...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I'd want Bruce and company to retain a say in how the Aeon line develops.Fat chance of that happening. I mean really, who's going to put out all the bread that W.W. would want to licence the continuum, and have a say in how the licencing company develops it? ::smiley1 I know W.W. always (and I mean always) wants to have it's cake and eat it too, but come on, thats just silly! ::rolleyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 If everyone here loves the games as much as it seems there will hardly be any problems creating new fanbooks, or similar projects. This is a boost, if anything.Anyone with me?Yup i'm with ya thingmaker!W.W. has done a great job at giving us the "raw" materials but now it's up to us fans to continue detailing the Aeonverse ourselves! The EON staffers (god love'em) are assisting us all in our endevours to overcome the darkness of the "discontinued" oblivion. As a fan I (and others) will be contributing an e-book as well. We must send a message to the Aeonverse fans:In the time of oppression we will never surrender nor will we go quietly into the night. We must ask ourselves not, what can the aeonverse can do for us, but what can we do for the aeonverse.Under the current circumstances for the game to continue, we must write, devolop, do the artwork suggest ideas or even make the coffee for the people while they work! no contribution is too big nor is it too small for the aeon dream to continue.Aeon is only the universe, WE are the people who game in it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dev Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 My answer is who needs 'em. Let the fans write the material. Think about it like this, in Trinity we got all but one Order/Region & thanks to Bruce & other's fine work we got them all ( Not counting India Underground, which I am praying this site will put out). In Aberrant we got sourcebooks on every major faction & with the excellent work done on "Brainwaves" we now get to delve into the ramifications Mega-Attributes. All of us Abbie fans wanted "Cult of Personality", so let's write it, call it something different, & put it out as fan fiction.The Continium will only die if we let it. The responsiblity of maintaining the line of we love is on us now. As long as we play it, talk about & write for it never goes away. We don't need a company to back us. Also think about this way, we all would agree that are some cool fan produced supplements out there & there a lot cheaper then WW products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlequin Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 or even make the coffee for the people while they work! no contribution is too big nor is it too small for the aeon dream to continue.,,coffee..... mmmmmmm.... ::cool nectar of the gods..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorHFrost KSC Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 JUST HOOK IT TO MY VIENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I hear ya guys. Coffee; it's all good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlequin Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 *drools* coffee.... my constant companion and reason i'm not in a coma... ::biggrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Raven Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Lemme guess... You sold your beds to make room for the RPG book shelves, right? ::biggrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Don't give Chill ideas! ::crazy -Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbar Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Coffee??? Guess I'd best make a real-life version of my VARG.... ::biggrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILL Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Don't give Chill ideas! ::crazy -Joseph ::sly ::tongue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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