Aberrant RPG - Level 6 Quantum Powers

[7hertz]

Based on logic (and physics, albeit theoretical), inside a Planck bubble, the creator's will is the dominant force and manipulator of that reality. OUTSIDE the bubble, whatever powers they have given themselves are void.

Meaning: the outside world is a separate reality and is not affected in any way by effects from the inside, or the outside.

The foundation of the seperate reality is the creator's consciousness. It has no bearing on the universe outside.

In effect, the boundry of the bubble is a seperate continuum which is totally seperate from our space-time continuum.

[Dr. Arbitrary]

There HAS to be some effect on the outside world, otherwise it would be a worthless power. If not, it would be as bad as having the power "invisibilty" but the weakness "only when no one is looking"

Dr. Arbitrary

[7hertz]

I think it is a power around which a whole adventure can be spun:

"Welcome To My Mind"

In a reality where the only laws are the one's imposed on it by it's creator...this is the staging point for literally any kind of story.

It does have an effect on the outside world: on those that are drawn into it.

Or maybe I'm wrong.Or maybe not.

After all, this is MY planck bubble.

MINE I TELLS YA, MWA HAH HAHAHAH HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaa.

Is it over now mom?

[Quantum Promise]

"There HAS to be some effect on the outside world, otherwise it would be a worthless power. If not, it would be as bad as having the power "invisibilty" but the weakness "only when no one is looking"

 Thanks Doc, that's my point exactly. In the event that a character creates a Planck Bubble and then uses it to grant himself powers, those powers are permenant. Period.

 

 Basically, the Nova creating the bubble is creating a situation almost identical to the break-down in time and space caused by eruption. I say almost because, at the tenth level of Quantum control, the creating Nova can exert his supremacy over the Quantum medium to the point of subconsious wish fulfillment. That is, the Nova can now exert total dominance over their own quantum signatures in this enviornment. Inside of that Scale, the creator is the sole and undisputed God of the universe (well, as much of the universe as is enclosed in the scale.)

[Bayne Antioc]

::hehe Ralph... get me a towel...

I have never seen the APG, but the descriptions I'm reading right now are very much drool-worthy. I'll break out a wee drappy o' godhood, thank ye' very much. Planck Scaling... isn't Planck's Constant some sort of astrophysical rule, or problem or summat? Can never be more than one?

Don't blame me, I'm a year 11 barely-passing Physics student (which may have more to do with an incompetent teacher than lack of ability) caught up in large-scale space-time bendery.

The robot has started dancing.

[Nullifier]

In quantum physics, Planck's Constant indicates the smallest measurements of time and space that we can say anything useful about. Anything that happens in areas of time and/or space smaller than those measurements, we are unable to predict or measure. At least, that's my impression of what's going on with that. ::lookaround

[Trollroot]

Sorry to ressurect an old thread, but I just joined.

There seems to be no reason why a Universe Creator could not specify that she possesed Planck Scaling power through her new universe, as a permanent feature.

Of course, Planck Scaling is still more powerful because you can use it to give youself dots in Universe Creation, while you need to buy 5 dots in universe creation to safely give youself Planck Scaling in your new universe.

Then again, both powers are less costeffective than the Quantum Transformation technique from the level 5 Quantum Supremacy power. Probably the most broken power presented anywhere, in any rpg. Compared to Planck Scaling, it gives three NP per success where Planck Scaling gives two. Planck Scaling has other benefits, but they are readily available by a few rolls with Quantum Transformation.

[metaphysician]

You'd need to come up with alot of sux on the roll though, as the way I read it, you can *not* carry over those faux nova points worth of transformation. Use them or lose them.

In any case, Universe Creation is more useful in-campaign than you might think. There's no requirement that the universe you build be full sized, or have anything resembling normal laws. Custom pocket dimensions, anyone?

OTOH, I think Quantum Inferno is the one that needs buffing. Its damage isn't actually that great, relative to a Q10 master 3 Qbolt. Also, in my judgement, you wouldn't need Quantum Inferno to blow up a planet. A mastery 2 Qbolt should be enough to slice a planet in half ( or blow it apart if used from within ), going by a rough estimate of how the power scales. Remember, Aberrant damage follows a roughly exponential curve. A nuke does 48L, a tank gun does 25L, but a nuke isn't twice as powerful, its whole orders of magnitude greater.

[Alex Green]

OTOH, I think Quantum Inferno is the one that needs buffing. Its damage isn't actually that great, relative to a Q10 master 3 Qbolt. Also, in my judgement, you wouldn't need Quantum Inferno to blow up a planet. A mastery 2 Qbolt should be enough to slice a planet in half ( or blow it apart if used from within ), going by a rough estimate of how the power scales. Remember, Aberrant damage follows a roughly exponential curve. A nuke does 48L, a tank gun does 25L, but a nuke isn't twice as powerful, its whole orders of magnitude greater.

That mastered Q-Bolt has no way to get inside a planet to blow it up from within. You fire it, it does a boat load of damage to the first cubic meter it hits, and if the ST is nice, what's left of that damage carries over to the next thing in line (ect). If the ST isn't nice then that first object just is really, really, gone.

Q-Inferno does all of it's damage over every cubic meter of it's target. That's huge, nothing else in Abby does that. Even Area only does damage over the surface.

[Finbar]

1) Holy necromancy, Batman!

2) Yeah, that means that a spaceship that would only take (Q+R)x20d10 agg from a M3 disintegration is going to take that (Q+R)10d10 agg damage for every cubic meter. Think about that for a moment, then tell me that the Quantum Inferno is just a hyped-up Q-bolt...

FR

[metaphysician]

I disagree, mainly because thats not a limit that applies to any quantum power I can think of. QBolt doesn't care how big the target happens to be: it does its damage to the target, not just a single cubic meter of the target. Either it just frags the target, or it blows a hole through the target.

In addition, wrt blowing a planet apart, I was talking about cases like "Nova burrows into crust, lets loose an Area or Explosive blast inside." I don't see letting loose 100+ L worth of blast that'd normally cover a full 1000+ kilometer radius inside an object wouldn't blow it apart. . .and the Area and Explosion extras aren't restricted to only doing their damage total split amongst everything in the area. Even if you ignore the outward force, it'd still vaporize about 1/36th of the Earth's volume.

[Finbar]

No, but Area and Explosion effects only damage their target once, and only once, no matter how big an item is. On the other hand, if an item has, say, 100 m^3 in the area of effect, then each and every one of those 100 m^3 is going to take the damage. Even though it may not total up for non-living things, that's still a lot of damage...far more than even an M3 disintegration...

FR

[metaphysician]

True, technically. The thing is, Aberrant damage rules don't normally work like that. Each object has total health, and when its gone, the object is wrecked. You don't track damage per unit size, and doubling the size of an object doesn't double its health levels. If Sizemorph ( Grow ) is any indicator, doubling the size of something absent any other change just adds one health level.

Hmm, anyone know if they ever gave the stats for a rock wall, or similar thing, in any other WW game?

[Alex Green]

The thing is, Aberrant damage rules don't normally work like that. Each object has total health, and when its gone, the object is wrecked.

That works well for people and cars and such. If I cut off a hand then he's hurting. It doesn't work for planets, nor does it make sense for even buildings. If I dig up a rock the planet isn't damaged. If I Q-Bolt a window on the 40th floor hopefully the building doesn't fall over.

Q-Bolt and it's rules don't scale well. I'm not sure we have any rules for damaging buildings and the like... except for Shockwave. In general I think that if I q-bolt a very large, stable building, then it probably doesn't fall over (it just has a hole). The wall takes damage, the building as a whole presumably doesn't without a lot more effort.

[metaphysician]

Thats one interp, especially for a non-area QBolt. The thing is, even at worst, your allowing that a QBolt or similar will blow through whatever part of it it *does* hit. This again, leads to the question of "How much lethal does it take to blow through 6000 kilometers of rock?" I tend to think the answer is "Less than 150 total."

That said, part of this is a matter of benchmarking. In other ways, Divis Mal seems to benchmark at about the power level of a Herald of Galactus. This fits thusly, in terms of firepower.

[Alex Green]

This again, leads to the question of "How much lethal does it take to blow through 6000 kilometers of rock?" I tend to think the answer is "Less than 150 total."

So the Directive can drop three orbital strikes and make a hole in the planet? A nuke is about 100.

OK, this is where we start making assumptions and doing math.

Every meter averages a soak + health total of 10 (if you do 10 dice we'll assume you take it out).

6000 kilometers of rock is 6,000,000 meters.

So that's 60,000,000.

Our Q-Bolt Mastery x 3 isn't looking so hot any more.

[metaphysician]

Except that health levels don't add that way. If you build an extra large tank, its not going to have twice as many health levels. Its probably going to just have a little more soak.

Though, fair point about the orbital railgun. Perhaps I should rephrase "150 total soak + health levels to punch a hole through the earth." Probably mostly soak ( going off the vehicle rules, where different sizes of vehicles have different soak, rather than different health levels ).

( and an Area QBolt would still work to vaporize large parts of the Earth :-p )

[Alex Green]

Except that health levels don't add that way. If you build an extra large tank, its not going to have twice as many health levels. Its probably going to just have a little more soak.

Wrong example, and they do add that way.

I launch my Q-Bolt at a crowd of people. It's going to do [8] lethal damage. AFAITC, the way the rules currently work, Joe Baseline (call him #1) at the front of the crowd dies outright. Jane Baseline right behind him (call her #2) takes nothing.

Similarly, I launch my Q-Bolt at a group of tanks. Assume the tanks have an 8 soak and 8 health levels. My level 16d Q-Bolt rips the first one apart, the one behind it takes nothing. (I’m assuming all dice do damage). Increase that Q-Bolt to 32d and maybe, MAYBE, the ST will allow the Q-Bolt that hits the first one to then go on to kill the next one as well.

You have 6 Million Cubic Meters of Dirt that you are trying to rip through, but that’s not ONE object, that’s 6 million. Area doesn’t help you go down any further because area only affects the surface. This is why Q-Inferno rules for this kind of thing, it’s a 3-D bolt.

[metaphysician]

Then we're just going to have to disagree, especially re: Area. If an Area Qbolt can equally harm every person, or every vehicle, in a given area, I don't see why it wouldn't hurt every rock in an area too.

[Alex Green]

Then we're just going to have to disagree, especially re: Area. If an Area Qbolt can equally harm every person, or every vehicle, in a given area, I don't see why it wouldn't hurt every rock in an area too.

Assume Area covers a 50 meter area and we are talking about a [15]L Q-Bolt.

You fire it off 10 meters in the air. Every person in that area takes [15] and dies painfully. Fine so far.

But there is a Nova 30 Meters below the ground. The damage that comes to him has to burn through 30 Meters of stone. Does he still have to soak a [15] effect?

There's also a tank there with a 12 soak and 8 health levels. Are the baselines in the tank required to resist a [15] effect as well?

[metaphysician]

Hmm, fair point. OTOH, you shouldn't be able to avoid being effected by just being behind any cover.

Here's a compromise idea based on the "ping blocking threshold": if an object ( or character ) has soak + health levels equal to half the attacks damage or less, the attack blows through unhindered?

[Alex Green]

I'm really not sure what to do with this... general comments:

1) From the previous example, The attack didn't do enough damage to even disable the tank, those baselines sealed in the tank should be uninjured. Ditto the nova inside the ground. IMHO, those already work. The attack comes from one point source and radiates outward.

2) Q-Inferno on the other hand is insanely over the top for this example. Even limited to [15] over the entire area, all the baselines die, including the ones in the tank, and the nova inside the ground has to soak [15], as does the tank, and every cubic meter of ground that's within the effect. If the ground doesn't have a soak+LL of 15, then the effect leaves a smooth crater.

3) I don't like the idea of a combat elite pulling a baseline in front of him to shield himself from an [8] or [16] lethal attack (much less a disintergration attack). Obvious these aren't area attacks. But right now that's what I think the rules say. On the other hand an attack that only has the energy to barely trash one object should halt at that object (although this still feels wrong for Disin).

4) If we allow attacks that have twice the soak+LL of the target to go through without being slowed down, then it's largely not possible any more to take cover for many attacks. Not only do cars get blown up, but the road behind them gets cratered for twice the length of a q-bolt (15m x (Q+D)). That's one heck of a crater, and the Q-bolt really should be losing force as it trashes stuff (as opposed to Q-I which doesn't).

[metaphysician]

I'm really not sure what to do with this... general comments:

1) From the previous example, The attack didn't do enough damage to even disable the tank, those baselines sealed in the tank should be uninjured. Ditto the nova inside the ground. IMHO, those already work. The attack comes from one point source and radiates outward.

2) Q-Inferno on the other hand is insanely over the top for this example. Even limited to [15] over the entire area, all the baselines die, including the ones in the tank, and the nova inside the ground has to soak [15], as does the tank, and every cubic meter of ground that's within the effect. If the ground doesn't have a soak+LL of 15, then the effect leaves a smooth crater.

3) I don't like the idea of a combat elite pulling a baseline in front of him to shield himself from an [8] or [16] lethal attack (much less a disintergration attack). Obvious these aren't area attacks. But right now that's what I think the rules say. On the other hand an attack that only has the energy to barely trash one object should halt at that object (although this still feels wrong for Disin).

4) If we allow attacks that have twice the soak+LL of the target to go through without being slowed down, then it's largely not possible any more to take cover for many attacks. Not only do cars get blown up, but the road behind them gets cratered for twice the length of a q-bolt (15m x (Q+D)). That's one heck of a crater, and the Q-bolt really should be losing force as it trashes stuff (as opposed to Q-I which doesn't).

1. Agreed, though it should also crater the ground ( not as much as QI )

2. Agreed.

4. Thats not *necessarily* a bad thing, but here's a thought, which relates to stuff I've mentioned earlier- instead of treating each cubic meter of stuff as being a separate object to be blown through, treat every additional meter ( or doubling of length ) as adding health levels. Or, conversely, calc the number of health levels done, and use that to determine how many meters of stuff it blows through.

Possible example: lets say the ground has 5 soak, 5 health levels per cubic meter. Hit it with a 15 L attack, and for 5 health overkill, so it blasts through an extra meter of ground. Hit it with a 25 L attack, and you've got 15 levels overkill, so it goes 5 meters, or 15 meters, or such.

[Finbar]

::brick

You're over-complicating things. The problem is that you figure that Q-Inferno is merely an over-powered Q-Bolt; it's not. It's something entirely different.

Q-Bolt will be stopped by a superior soak; if it nails an area, it does damage once, and only once, to the area itself regardless of that area's size. It doesn't matter if it's a ship, a world, or an asteroid; it will only deal its damage once to that area. To nail a large portion of a planet, you're going to need to apply Q-Bolt over and over again, and it will only nail the surface with its damage each time. Even Disintegrate will only affect the surface, albeit it will create a new surface (an inch at a time; do the math based off (Q+(Dex+Disintegrate Sux))x20. That's still a ridiculous amount of damage (assuming a Mastery 3, Max Dex of 5, and and all others at a max of 10, including Mega-Dex, and assuming nothing but 9's, that's still (Q10+(Disintegrate 10+Dex 5+Mega-Dex 10 (effectively 20 sux)) for a total of 20x(10+5+20)=20x35=700 HL's over a (Q10+Disintegrate 10)x5x=100m, which becomes (100x10,000=)1,000,000 KM radius, or 700 HL's aggravated to everything in a 1 million KM radius...Life in that area may be destroyed, but the planet is still going to basically ignore it.

Basically, I figure that Earth should have better defenses in aggregate than a nova, and Invulnerability: BC: Energy 10 with Mastery 3 is 720 soak...without allowing for Hardbody.

[PLEASE let my math be wrong!]

That damage can be theoretically shielded against.

Q-Inferno, however, does its damage to every cubic meter in its area of affect the area. To every cubic meter at its point of intact and within 2000 KM of that point, it takes 200 HL's aggravated. However, because it's affecting every cubic meter, and since every cubic meter must soak on its own (so it no longer has the benefit of the planet's soak), that lower amount of damage becomes a lot nastier. If you could phase to the center of the moon and let loose with a Q-Inferno, you could destroy the moon in one go (2000 km radius on the Q-Inferno, 3476 KM diameter of the moon); otherwise it would take 8 strikes (at a total cost of 48 quantum) to make sure that moon is history. It would take a lot longer with just a Disintegrate...and that Disintegrate has the same quantum cost (it being a Level 6 power and all).

[PLEASE nuke my math!]

FR

[metaphysician]

*checks math*

Well, there's at least one error. Invulnerability 10 at mastery 3 is ( 6 * 10 ) * 20 = 1200 soak. ::jaw

So, actually, a Q10 nova would probably have better defense than a planet. . .

( which doesn't seem unreasonable to me )

[Alex Green]

Q-Bolt will be stopped by a superior soak; if it nails an area, it does damage once, and only once, to the area itself regardless of that area's size. It doesn't matter if it's a ship, a world, or an asteroid; it will only deal its damage once to that area.

Well put Finbar.

[Alex Green]

Correction: In the above example with the Tank with a 12 soak and 8 life levels against a [15] effect Q-Inferno, the Tank still buys it. It's more than one cubic meter so it takes the damage multiple times.

If you really want you could say it's shell is still left but it's insides are trashed... or you could just have the entire thing go bye-bye.

[Finbar]

1) Man, I was hoping you'd find a problem with the HL's given out...

2) BTW, Min for Q-Inferno: 550 Bashing, 275 Lethal, 110 Agg. Max: 1000 Bashing, 500 Lethal, 200 Agg. Compare that to a maxed-out Q-Bolt with just M3: 800d10[600] bashing (for 1400) and 800d10[400] lethal (for 1200).

Aggravated is different, as it's based on sux rolled; the other two are based solely off Quantum and power rating; an aggravated Q-Bolt is based off Q+[Dex+Q-Bolt PR sux]. Thus, I also need to assume a character with Dex 5, Mega-Dex 10, Quantum 10, and Q-Bolt 10, with nothing but 10's would have 5 (from Dex)+30 (from Mega-Dex)+10 (Quantum)+10 (PR) or 55 base, or 1100 HL's with M3 (my math above wasn't off; I just assumed 9's were rolled...but I realized that specialization doesn't help, so re-rolling 10's doesn't cause as much chaos here.

3) Okay, question on Maxing Power: If Mastery 3 multiplies all effects by 20, does that apply to the effects of Maxing Power as well? Assuming Q10, and that you spent 10 qp, that could add as much as 10 HL's base damage, which becomes +200 HL of the appropriate type. Or would that just be too broken?

4) Also, how does that apply to Strength/Weaknesses as well? Consider: Let's assume I can pretty much count on getting one success to activate my Q-Bolt due to Mega-Dex, so I don't need the full dice pool. I don't mind using this Q-bolt at touch (ie, no mutiple actions). Throw in that I need to lick the person, and that I probably linked to my Strobe power (Linked: Normal Split/Unable to use seperately). That gives me 28 levels of weaknesses to play with, and doesn't allow for some miscellaneous limitation.

Now, let's say I pour all that into damage, giving me +[28] B/L damage and +28d10 agg. With Mastery 3, would that become +[560] B/L and +560d10 Agg? I'd rule no, it just adds, but that's just me...

FR

[Alex Green]

1) I just skimmed the math, but the important point is that 700 HL's is *nothing* to a planet.

2) RE: Min for Q-Inferno

Not sure. Presumably you could "pull your punch".

3) We are already *deep* into, talk to the ST, territory here so it probably doesn't matter, but IMHO while those succ wouldn't be multipled by 20, the effects would be. Area gets to spread out. Damage is x20'd, etc.

On the other hand I'd probably also x20 (or much, much more) damage for the Q-I as well.

4) Again, we are already deep into "talk to ST" territory here. I'm not sure I'd give out 28 levels of weakness for no-range (although for a 3xMastery Q-Bolt it almost makes sense). I also don't like the linked attacks, or a no-range strobe. And finally, the ST is perfectly within his rights to say that mess only adds 28 dice to your damage.

[Finbar]

Hah! It's a no-range, no-dice pool M3 Q-bolt linked to Strobe that uses TASTE as its aiming sense!

But, yeah, I probably woudn't allow it on GP....

FR