Aberrant: Infinite Earth - Proposal for an open setting

[Krul]

Actually, I sort of see both sides here..

You know, Fox, if you want to do Alternate Universes with MCoH characters, it seems to me, that the best way to do that, would be to ask for a new forum, where we can write Alternate Universe stories in that universe. It would also make Crosstime Travel more interesting, in some ways, because that power would allow folks entrance into some of those worlds. That seems to me, the best way to resolve both sides of this matter to everyone's satisfaction.

[Justin OOC]

again you could just write AU's in MCOH

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: Krul

You know, Fox, if you want to do Alternate Universes with MCoH characters, it seems to me, that the best way to do that, would be to ask for a new forum, where we can write Alternate Universe stories in that universe. It would also make Crosstime Travel more interesting, in some ways, because that power would allow folks entrance into some of those worlds. That seems to me, the best way to resolve both sides of this matter to everyone's satisfaction.

Fox and I had already jointly proposed this (about half and half), and this is what would be done where Long March and MCH to unite into one, if done Fox's way.

Originally Posted By: Justin OOC

again you could just write AU's in MCOH

It's pointless to keep bringing that up. Fox has made it clear that he'll not be happy until the game's 'canon' storyline is affected - in other words, it's not enough to tell the story he wants: he has to do it his way, and we all have to be able to acknowledge it ICly.

I don't think it can be stated much more clearly (or bluntly) than that.

[Mr Fox]

Take 2:

I wrote and posted a response but it was a bit too blunt.

Let me see if I can say this without the language I used in the first try.

1) I don't appreciate being told how I am allowed to enjoy my gaming. If I want to have ONE single game in which I do care about numbers then I will and if you don't like it then don't participate. <heartfelt emphatic harsh words not inserted here> *temptation resisted barely*

2) I hearby withdraw my offer to join forces with MCoH. I will petition Chosen to set up an OW. Dawn was very insistent that creating another OW would be detrimental to the existing ones, but my every attempt to offer suggestions on how to combine my proposal with MCoH has been ridiculed and rejected. Fine. MCoH will be the poorer for the loss. Instead of gaining the strength of new writers who were interested in what I've proposed it will lose one of it's most prolific writers instead.

3) I am appalled at the arrogance of some people who have the nerve to say that stories not told within the existing rules are not worth telling and that there are no good stories that could be told in the fashion I've suggested. If comic writers had taken that attitude we wouldn't have some of the most epic works of the genre. Kingdom Come anyone? That story is completely epic and would never have been told if the writer hadn't thought outside the box.

[Dave ST]

There is no one telling you our way is 'right and holy' Fox. Simply put you'd like powers that the majority of other gamers here do not want seen in their games.

We reserve that right.

Your solution was this proposal to which most of the gamers who do not want those powers in an open world have stated they'll have nothing to do with it.

Again, we reserve that right.

If this is what you and others want, then go to it. You and Star and Jer and Katalyst can all have a big Quantum 10 circle jerk in the middle of Times Square if that's what makes you guys happy, but please don't get pissed at us for questioning the logic you've presented.

It's poorly planned, ill conceived, and targeted at head hunting from another OW forum here on RPG-Post. That's the wild hair that shot up most the asses around here. Me? Personally I don't care what you guys are playing, Level 4+ Powers to me are not my thing and I don't use them.

From what I've seen around here the player-base is more interested in jacking-off to their own imaginary super powers than they are interested in writing a good story. I wouldn't trust half the players here with Quantum 8 PCs simply because they can't even handle a simple Role-Play greeting of an NPC without restoring to spending 15 quantum point on enhancements first...

People aren't interested in Role Play, they interested in winning. They have to be the best, do the best thing, have the best stuff, always be loved, liked and appreciated. That's not interesting to me and that's exactly what this new forum seems to offer me: phenomenal cosmic power... and some of the the most boring interaction I could ever hope for.

Seriously though, if that's what you want, by all means, have at it. It just ain't for me.

[Mr Fox]

Note that my earlier response was deleted and replaced with something a bit (if only slightly) more tactful.

I tried to offer a compromise in order not to sap the strength from existing OWs. I was fully conscious of peoples concerns about that. I did my best to try and make it work. Now I'm sick of trying.

If people don't want what I'm suggesting in their game (and they have every right not to!) then don't be pissed at me when I open up a new game for the people who do want what I'm offering.

This idea that there is a distinction between OW and ST driven is bull shite. It's the same group of writers doing the writing for both. It doesn't matter if it is a new OW or ST game being offered, either way it dilutes the writer pool. Period. If you are offended by the fact that the writer pool gets diluted then perhaps you shouldn't be the ones jumping on every new game that comes along (not talking about you here Dave). Or is it just that people are so terrified by or opposed to my particular game idea that makes this an issue?

[The Story Guide]

I'm neither terrified or offended. It simple seems to me that with the very nature of the Long March setting, you're essentially make an OW board of nothing but AU's. *shrugs* That's just how it seems, so it doesn't make much sense to me to start up a new board for it.

In addition to that, I cannot connect to characters so far removed from the human experience that they are capable of acts that in the really real world are considered the province of gods or technology not to be brought out of the science fiction realms for eons. Since I read stories for the pathos that they elicit from me, and such pathos is not achievable if I cannot connect with the characters, I do not see this board as producing interesting stories to read or write for myself. I simply find it difficult to see the point in writing stories where the only obstacles and tensions for the characters that can be created are token at best.

This is my opinion and neither a bashing of your desire or yourself.

As for the distinction between OW and ST driven games, I disagree. ST games tend to last longer and maintain a larger player base throughout the course of the game as much of the burden of providing plot and moving the stories along at appropriate points is placed on the ST, instead of left up to initiative of the players alone. There is more consistency in the storytelling and setting, and usually both a beginning and end to the game. And if not to the game, than to story arcs. OW games on the site since I have been here seem mostly incapable of finishing a single story arc, let alone any sort of overarching metaplot without a single person stepping up to run it all. Which effectively makes that part of the OW board ST driven.

[Mr Fox]

Thanks for the response Mala. I appreciate your tone and thoughts.

I'll answer your last point first. I agree with you that there are differences. That isn't what I'm saying. The arguement was being made that opening an OW would sap the strength from the existing ones. I'm arguing that there is no difference in that respect between an OW and an ST game. The same writers write for both so it doesn't matter from that standpoint whether I call it an OW or an ST, if a new game will sap strength away from existing ones and therefore we shouldn't open a new one then the same applies whether it be OW or ST.

As for your first point. I tried very hard over the last week to offer suggestions on how to combine my proposal with MCoH for this very reason. From the responses I've gotten it is apparent to me that at least some of the writers in MCoH feel very strongly that they don't want what I'm proposing within their game. Nothing wrong with that, but it does mean that I need to do it as a separate venue whether we call it OW or ST.

[Dawn OOC]

Since I'm pretty sure that Fox's first post today was in response to my blunt post, I wanted to clarify my response. For once in my life, I didn't attempt to sugarcoat my words at all; I laid it out as plainly as I could. And no matter how it is sugar-coated, Fox wants things done his way (El getting Q8) and it has to be 'real' (no AUs). Those are the conditions that he requires and if he'll do the work for a new board, that's his business.

Ultimately, I don't care whether Fox starts his new game, beyond that I think it's a bad idea, for the reasons that Dave and Mala have already stated. I confess that I am irritated that he couldn't even change things slightly from MCH beyond the caps, and that he is telling people to flat-out port their MCH PCs over without any restrictions or changes. It is borderline theft of PCs from MCH; it'd be easier to swallow if he would at least change the NP starting points or not allow direct MCH ports. Add in the fact that participation in MCH qualifies as participation in LM, and it's just one more example of the problems I've had with the proposal from the start. That's why I suggested the merger with MCH in the first place. Fox has refused to compromise much at all with joining MCH; all of his suggestions have continued to hold to his way of doing things. Sorry if that hurts your feelings Fox, but that is the way you're coming across - it's got to be your way or you're going to start your own thing so it can be your way.

Yes, new games sap the strength from the old. It is survival of the fittest; the strongest games, the ones that draw the most attention and PCs (like DR and NE), continue onward. The ones that can't keep people engrossed - for whatever reason - fail. There's nothing wrong in a game not making it; if we had fun while it was going, then we were having fun! Some of the best times I've had here were in games that are now defunct. That's the final measure for me regarding whether a game was a success - anything else is a benefit.

Foregoing all of that, I wish Fox the best with his new game. I don't like to see any game fail, even ones I have no interest or think are done for the wrong reasons.

[Vivi OOC]

I doubt sincerely that Chosen will go for a proposal that cites participation in one forum as participation in another- writing in MCoH counting toward this new setting/game, specifically- without the consent of any existing Moderators. That part, at least, will likely need changing.

[Mr Fox]

Compromise? What compromise is there between Uncapped and Capped? It's one or the other, it can't be both ways. (Though I even tried to make a couple suggestions on how we could try to make it something in between.)

From the start I've tried over and over to offer ways to do it within the structure of MCoH and every suggestion I've made has been scoffed at and critized. I don't see anyone offering real suggestions from the other side. Saying just write AU's is not a suggestion. I've spoke my piece on this half a dozen times or more I'm not going to repeat myself again.

I want A (ONE SINGLE) game on this site to be uncapped with no rules restrictions.

You don't want that in MCoH fine.

Perhaps you'll recall that I composed this proposal before the Vote in MCOH regarding removing cap. At the time I was being told by the majority of the players who were posting that I could not do with my character what I wished to do. So I made this proposal. It wasn't about stealing characters from MCH, it was about having an uncapped setting. As far as I know only Jeremy and I from MCH have expressed interest in my proposal.

Krul, SG and El'jinn are not in that game and them joining mine is not theft.

So instead of being constructive and offering valid ways to make it work and combine forces and have MCoH gain 3 brand new writers, you've lost one of the most prolific writers in the setting. You all could have made real suggestions, ways to make it work so that the 5 interested people could get what they want and do it within the system, but instead you constantly throw in my face the same crap over and over and ignore the suggestions I made. I offered a way to do it within MCH that would preserve Canon but still allow people to tell the epic stories they want to tell. I offered a way to pull off the cap and allow advancement within the system, but all anyone can offer in return is 'that's a bad idea we don't like it, and we don't think you can tell stories at those power levels.' Maybe not but I can try. No one is twisting your arm and forcing you to read the stories we write.

I tried over and over to make it work, and all I got in return (with a few rare exceptions) was negativity and scorn. That doesn't hurt my feelings, it pisses me off.

I'm not one of the passive/agressive manipulator types. I don't say I'm pulling out of a game to get people to come begging me to stay. When I say I'm done, I'm done. Elspeth is no longer part of MCoH and no matter what the result of this proposal turns out to be she won't be returning. Good luck with the setting.

Also as far as I'm concerned the offer of porting characters from there is also withdrawn. I'll be putting Elspeth into the new game but it won't be the result of porting, it will be the result of me no longer participating there. I will consider redoing the character creation rules. Maybe I'll start the characters at 100 NPs instead.

[Telluris]

Krul is in MCoH with Dauntless, I believe.

[Krul]

You are correct Telluris, but I wouldn't have been porting Dauntless over, if I join this game, and I am interested in it, I would do a different character, with a different focus..

On a different note, I'm sorry to see that folks have been getting a bit hostile over the matter.

I'm in minor disagreement with the folks who think you can't tell good stories at the Q7+ point, but that's mine opinion, not the rest of you, and each of us are entitled to our opinions.

[Mr Fox]

It's hard to keep track of who plays who. I didn't realize you were running Dauntless, Krul.

I've let this entire discussion get under my skin way to deeply. I'm going to take a couple days off and chill for a bit. Those waiting on me for postage please be patient. I'll most likely be back Thursday.

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: Mr Fox

I've let this entire discussion get under my skin way to deeply. I'm going to take a couple days off and chill for a bit. Those waiting on me for postage please be patient. I'll most likely be back Thursday.

That's cool. I had told myself I wouldn't posting for 24 hours myself. See you Thursday.