Aberrant: Infinite Earth - Proposal for an open setting

[Mr Fox]

The Dilemma:

Ok, so after recent discussions it has come to my attention that there is no uncapped setting on the site. In fact I believe currently there is no game allowing characters to exceed Q6 and even those games are rare. Personally I feel there ought to be at least one setting/game on the site where there is no artificial cap. The rules of the game exist to allow characters to develop world shattering powers, but no game here allows the characters to get them. That's a shame.

The Disclaimer:

I know right off the bat that this idea will not be for everyone, if it is not for you please ignore this post. If it piques your interest then keep reading.

The Proposal:

So what I'm proposing is this. If there is interest, I will open up the Long March setting as being uncapped and open to everyone. In other words if you want to reach Q8 and write for a character with Global powers like Geologic Supremacy, then you can do it.

The nice thing about the Long March setting is that it is a multi-verse setting in which just about anything is possible. You want to write in a world where the Aberrant War is in full swing, no problem. You want to write in a world where it is N-Day and everyone has just erupted? No problem. The setting will allow just about anything.

Even in games that don't have an explicitly stated cap, there is an unstated cap by means of low rate of xp awards and realistic expectations of how long the game will last. What game ever goes long enough at normal xp rates to reach the higher quantum ratings? Most games on this site and even TT games rarely go longer than 3 years and so even if they 'allowed' you to buy higher quantum ratings you'd never get enough xp in the time the game is active to actually get the higher quantum ratings and associated powers.

The Rules:

The rules are simple. 90np max and you may start with Q6. Every month you participate you are awarded 20xp. Each year of participation within the setting will earn you the right to raise your Q by one dot. (If porting a character from MCoH or another recognized setting you will come into the game at the point at which the character is currently with no banked xp. If you are recognized as having enough participation in that setting to gain the 7th dot in Quantum you still won't be able to buy it until you have enough xp to purchase it which would mean a minimum of 3 months. No participation beyond 7th dot will be recognized no matter how much you might have been involved in the game you are porting from. Q8 will have to be earned by participation in this game directly, meaning no one will be allowed Q8 for at least a year. Q9 in 2 years, and Q10 in 3 years. That's assuming you go straight up the quantum ladder so to speak. Just because you can buy the dots doesn't mean you have to. This won't be an 'arms race'. Remember the golden rule is that you are not allowed to effect another character without their permission. Rushing to Q10 serves no purpose. I want an uncapped setting to tell stories in not to flex and say 'look how buff my sheet is'. There aren't going to be any nerd girls (or guys) swooning at the sight of your Quantum Rating. It's about telling stories, I can't emphasize that enough. If you want to rush to Q10 because that's what you want to do and that's what gives you your jollies then that's fine. Just remember that people aren't likely to read your stories or want to interact with you if you don't participate in and tell interesting stories.

The Golden Rule:

I will Mod the game and the one Golden Rule is that what your character does cannot effect another player's character without their permission. I will be around to arbitrate if there is ever a conflict, but it shouldn't be necessary.

Porting:

I will allow characters to be ported over from MCoH as is, and participation there will count as participation in LM. I will consider allowing characters to be ported over from other settings, and will consider allowing participation in those to be counted, but from other settings it is not a guarantee. I'll decide on those on a case by case basis since I'm not as familiar with other settings. Even counting participation from other settings, no character will be allowed to come in starting higher than Q6.

A second more important disclaimer:

Don't read this as me trying to steal players from MCoH. That is not at all my intention and I would hope that anyone interested in porting a character over would continue playing in MCoH, as I intend to do with Elspeth. I'll just consider my LM version an uncapped Alternate Universe version not to be confused with the MCoH Elspeth. This proposal isn't really about MCoH, it's about there not being a game on the site where it's possible to explore the upper limits of the power ranges in the books. It was merely the recent discussion in that setting that brought this all to my attention and spurred me to make this proposal.

Clarification:

The idea for using the LM universe is because I am the ST for that game and it allows for a great diversity in the setting. I could just as easily set it in a newly created universe if folks would rather do that. My main thought here is to have that ONE game in which there is no upper limit and the only thing stopping you from hitting Q10 and creating your own universes is time and participation.

Finally, just to be clear, what I am offering to provide is a setting in which any interested player can write stories. It will be a moderated setting, and if it is desired I will try and provide plot for you individually or in groups, but I will expect the players to be mostly self guided and directed. Think of me in my Mod capacity more as a resource to call on when you are stuck or getting writers block or need clarification on something in the setting. I will provide necessary meta plot to bring characters together if requested, but by and large you will be allowed to govern your own affairs and write your own stories.

For those unfamiliar with the Long March setting here is a basic summary:

The game was one in which the characters discovered that their universe was only one among an infinite number of parallel universes. On their particular branch of the tree so to speak there was a group of massively powerful Novas called the Watchers. They played with the fates of entire universes for no reason other than to keep terminal boredom at bay. They weren't 'evil' they were simply beyond the realm of normal morals and ethics. This setting I am offering does not necessarily exist on that branch of the universal tree, it can include them or not as the players choose. The main thing is that they players will have the choice to determine their setting and as play progresses will have the opportunity to move between universes if they wish to interact with other characters, or may all exist in the same universe. The choice is up to you.

I've already spoke with Chosen and he's willing to put Long March back on the main page if anyone is interested, otherwise we can create a brand new game thread if folks would rather do that.

Questions? Suggestions?

[Charlie Cole]

I'm in for this. It's either Charlie or Marvin Melrose.

[Mr Fox]

For the record there is a vote occurring in MCoH right now on whether to lift the cap or not. I started composing my proposal this afternoon before that was posted and I wasn't aware of it until this evening after making my post above.

I don't know if the vote in MCoH will change anything or not but I'll leave this proposal alive for now. Speak up if you have interest.

[Stargaizer]

Already working on a 90np Joe from ItB.

Question, is it just Q5 that gives you a point of taint or every lvl of Q5+?

[Krul]

I would find this interesting, regardless of where MCoH goes.

Stargaizer: It's actually a bit more complicated then that, but for a baseline who has erupted to become a nova, it's every level of Q5+, that's not true of later generation novas, depending on type.. trogs get more taint.. trues and terats get less

[Stargaizer]

I'm assuming that everyone in this game would be an erupted baseline?

[Krul]

Nothing in the above rules requires that, and in fact, some characters who might be ported over are already 2nd or 3rd generation novas.

[Mr Fox]

No requirement to be 1st gen. 2nd and 3rd gen would be fine. If you are creating a character from scratch rather than porting over we might have to work out some details. There were restrictions placed on those creating 2nd and 3rd gens in MCoH that any character ported over from there would be under and given their advantages there might need to be some balance for the 2nd and 3rds.

[Dawn OOC]

I think I have two major issues with this proposal as presented here.

Originally Posted By: Mr Fox

Porting:

I will allow characters to be ported over from MCoH as is, and participation there will count as participation in LM. I will consider allowing characters to be ported over from other settings, and will consider allowing participation in those to be counted, but from other settings it is not a guarantee. I'll decide on those on a case by case basis since I'm not as familiar with other settings. Even counting participation from other settings, no character will be allowed to come in starting higher than Q6.

A second more important disclaimer:

Don't read this as me trying to steal players from MCoH. That is not at all my intention and I would hope that anyone interested in porting a character over would continue playing in MCoH, as I intend to do with Elspeth. I'll just consider my LM version an uncapped Alternate Universe version not to be confused with the MCoH Elspeth. This proposal isn't really about MCoH, it's about there not being a game on the site where it's possible to explore the upper limits of the power ranges in the books. It was merely the recent discussion in that setting that brought this all to my attention and spurred me to make this proposal.

The issues I see with these are interconnected. You have the issue that like it or not, you are going to be stealing characters from a game already faltering. You're allowing direct ports, and you're stealing from yourself too, when you allow people to post in MCH and have that count for LM. That policy will only drop your own post count, unless people are c/ping in both forums.

In short: people don't seem to have the time, energy or interest in the current OW games we have, much less another one.

Originally Posted By: Mr Fox

Finally, just to be clear, what I am offering to provide is a setting in which any interested player can write stories. It will be a moderated setting, and if it is desired I will try and provide plot for you individually or in groups, but I will expect the players to be mostly self guided and directed. Think of me in my Mod capacity more as a resource to call on when you are stuck or getting writers block or need clarification on something in the setting. I will provide necessary meta plot to bring characters together if requested, but by and large you will be allowed to govern your own affairs and write your own stories.

This is the other issue I have with this proposal. I bolded the particularly irksome portion. Self-goverance is good, but the current trend on the board is away from self-driven stories toward ST-driven stories. Frankly, the crew we have right now wants an ST to help them set up and guide the world. If you don't have time for that, you're just setting up another board that putters along and sees little participation.

I have a counter-proposal. I know you're waiting to see how the poll on MCH goes, along with Long's resultant decision. And despite my stance in MCH, if this interests people enough to get them to post, then MCH should take Fox on as a mod and raise the limits. It would increase participation in MCH and let people flex with power. Better that than have yet another OW game fail after people pour time and effort into it.

[Elspeth]

To your first point:

I agree. Any new game always saps the strength of the existing games because we have a limited pool of authors. It is something that is a fact of life around here and it happens pretty regularly. We are a group of magpies and nearly every time someone announces a new game we flock to the new shiny.

Quote:

I have a counter-proposal. I know you're waiting to see how the poll on MCH goes, along with Long's resultant decision. And despite my stance in MCH, if this interests people enough to get them to post, then MCH should take Fox on as a mod and raise the limits. It would increase participation in MCH and let people flex with power. Better that than have yet another OW game fail after people pour time and effort into it.

On your second point:

I would be ok with that. But consider, The one issue that I see and the reason I was thinking LM would make a good setting, is that along with those high levels of power goes the need to stretch out so to speak. If people are wanting to explore stories in which their characters can destroy continents with a wave of their hand, we can't very well let them do it on the Earth of MCoH or their actions will effect every other player in the game. The beauty of LM is that it is a multi-verse setting in which there are an infinite number of alternate Earths and what a character does on one only effects those players who have chosen to co-exist on that particular AU-Earth.

I have no problem in joining forces with MCoH, but we'll need to work out the details on how to make it possible. For Elspeth, for example, I had planned to only use her Q8 powers (once she has them) on another world and thus not effect any of the other players by her actions. That solution won't work for everyone.

Here's one possible solution... Elspeth was going to be taking Cross-time travel in MCoH. We could use that and build some meta-plot around it, in which she creates some permanent doorways into other Earths. That would allow folks to shatter continents or worlds and still not effect the other characters in the game.

Thoughts?

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: Elspeth

On your second point:
I have no problem in joining forces with MCoH, but we'll need to work out the details on how to make it possible. For Elspeth, for example, I had planned to only use her Q8 powers (once she has them) on another world and thus not effect any of the other players by her actions. That solution won't work for everyone.

Here's one possible solution... Elspeth was going to be taking Cross-time travel in MCoH. We could use that and build some meta-plot around it, in which she creates some permanent doorways into other Earths. That would allow folks to shatter continents or worlds and still not effect the other characters in the game.

Thoughts?

I have no issue with that idea. I’ve come to feel that the Open World Abby games need to find their own niches and make it their own. If that means that MCH becomes the gateway for the worlds, so be it.

Again, I have a counter-idea. I think that it would be possible to set up a mechanism for people to consent to changing the world. That’s the major sticking point for me – powers that utterly change the world. If there was a way to obtain consent from the majority of the writers, I think that would satisfy most of us. The issue is responsible story-telling; everyone here can name someone they wouldn’t trust to alter their game world in an unfun, negative way.

However, as a wise friend recently reminded me, Aberrant is a game about having the power of a god – and how that changes the world. Abby is supposed to be about making impacts, not the status quo. That’s why I said that the three open world games need to find niches. 200x needs to draw in the canon events and let the PCs affect them. MCH needs canon events, period. I think we've been looking at the wrong places for a solution. I think that the two games need to shake up their Earths, and there has to be a way to do that without pissing on the other players’ stories.

That's my thoughts.

[Mr Fox]

Fine, I'll see your counter-proposal of my counter-proposal of your counter-proposal of my proposal and raise you a counter-counter-counter-counter proposal!

I agree that I'd like to see MCoH setting be more fluid and malleable. However, I think there should be some mechanism for really destructive stories that wouldn't hose the whole game. It's one thing to destroy a city here or there, or like the guy in canon that wipes out the fertility of America's bread basket region. It's another thing to slam two continents together, or destroy Earth itself, or something on that kind of scale. It doesn't have to be Elspeth's doorways to other dimensions that I suggested, but some means of doing it would be nice. That way folks could really feel free to cut loose story-wise and not worry about how it will effect other players.

I'd even be willing to build some meta-plot around the whole doorways to other Earth's thing if people are interested.

[Dawn OOC]

Honestly, all I can add to that is that I'd hope that our players would realize that 'cutting loose' in a story doesn't make a good story. It might be fun to write, but AU it then if the board decides that they don't want to deal with it. What you propose with E's gates are essentially AUs anyway, just ones that anyone can access.

I get the feeling that people shying away from AUs are just so that they can have bragging rights over what their PC does. That's not the reason to do this. The reason for writing these stories is to tell good stories, and ultimately it doesn't matter if those stories are AU or not. If they're good, if they invoke emotion, if they entertain while keeping the setting: those are what writing in the OW should be about.

[Mr Fox]

I can't speak for others but for me, AU is unofficial and therefore you can't ever write for your character in the regular setting about anything that occurred in the AU. Maybe you were part of a group who fooled you into using your power for some terrible end that cost the lives of millions of people... that's some serious Angst. But if it's an AU and unofficial then *poof* it never actually happened and you can't ever refer to it in the real game. That's where having some means of making it part of the actual game and not merely an AU is a benefit and important to me.

Quote:

If they're good, if they invoke emotion, if they entertain while keeping the setting: those are what writing in the OW should be about.

Call it a personal quirk of mine, but to me if it's not part of the official game then it's just not the same. I could write AU stories all day long and they might be excellent (I would hope), but to me it just doesn't feel real if the sheet doesn't reflect that, and if those stories and experiences don't become part of the character's history.

Honestly I don't have any such stories planned at the moment, but I can easily envision some that would be good stories and would be drastic in terms of effect.

Don't get me wrong, I can see where some would be all about the "look what my character did, I'm so buff, bow before my greatness..." That's not me, but I could see it happen in the game. I think we have to take the bad with the good though. What I take away from the responses I've seen so far is that some people want the chance to tell those stories. The idea of having a way to make it official, but not destroy the setting is the compromise that can keep us from melting down I think.

[El'Jinn Uu]

WOW Fox, you're suggestion of a REAL open world/Universe/Multi-verse/Megaverse/Ultraversal game sure sounds nice... It sure be fun for creating "Short stories from around reality" for those who like to read the boards as more of a form of fan fiction. And for those of us who feel intimidated by the Higher quality of the existing games to the point of never posting in PBP (my story telling sucks) for fear of disrupting those awsome games, this may actually get me to do just That. Plus it gives me a reason to read Every game on nprime just so that I can get a feel of what's out there to pull source information from.

I Also like the freedom to reach QR6 or higher, although not the part about having to wait one year Real time to do it. Honestly I doubt I'd ever get the EP to buy it, nor have the interest in actually going as high or higher than QR6-7, but I Do like having the "No you can't do that" rules not looming over my head like a sword, or having that monkey on my back. I LIKE playing small And big (Mostly small). I also like the abusiveness and freedom to come up with Wild ideas and using NEW never before seen or heard of one time Powers/Enhancements/Weaknesses/Flaws/Merits/Strengths and Extras. It Would make for a cool game world where you can Truily be inventive just like the writers of Aberrant wanted. They seemed to have Wanted us to make up Non-bench mark powers that never existed before (Like Anibal Buendias never described in game terms power of creating Eufiber). I also like the Idea of "Other worlds"... You COULD end up in a variant world like that of Dawns Zombie apok or ItB With-Out actually disrupting Those games at all. You could even end up in worlds where your powers are somehow dawrfed.

This idea has No limits other than the idea of Making a great story!

It's like Rifts meets Aberrant... But with-out the Ret-Con, poor meta-plots, and law suite from Kevin Seimbedia!!!

[El'Jinn Uu]

Plus I may actually get to see what Stargaizers, Salmon max, or Sky Lions characters from ItB would have evolved into as characters.

Maybe Juno grew Wings as she aspired to be more like a certain member of her team, or Joe Smith became a media sensation who never got pulled into the future. Perhaps Leon Simons becomes a great artist and went to create a new industy for Free Artists with Peter. maybe Jay King and Wei Fang got married and formed a new social order where humans and novas live in harmony, but only cuz of Nathans secret police force!

Richard Stevenson could have gone on to be the Next president of the USA after he stopped a nuclear device from being set off by terrorists which would have destroyed Manhatten. Soon he realizes Just how corrupt not just the US is, but Every government, so he decides to make use of the US "Nova-Agent" Michael Peters who has found a New Second level of eruption and become as powerful, if not more powerful than Titan. Together they try and bring about a Better world, only to realize that Michael has been suffering from a mental Aberration that he IS the Fallen Morning Star and Rich was his Unknowing Prophet... Soon the war will begin and it will be Brilliant!

The possibilities are endless for story telling, but it's Also a Great chance to see Old characters getting a New life. Nothing sucks more than putting your all into a Character, only to see the game they were in fall to peices before you could ever really get to play them out.

[Dawn OOC]

Max doesn't care for OW, last I heard. Sky doesn't come around anymore. Mike doesn't play Nathan here anymore. And I don't want to play Fang anywhere but ItB.

It's a nice idea, but I doubt it would take off quite the way you envisioned it.

[Mr Fox]

I like your enthusiasm El, and ITB is kinda open for use since it was abandoned. Just be careful not to infringe on someone else's setting/characters without permission. If this game happens, I will work with players to try and build the settings if desired.

You also bring up a good point, the LM-verse is open to the point where people can indulge their creative desires in terms of universe creation (the storytelling kind, not the power). Ever wanted to stick an aberrant in a fantasy setting and explore the havock they could create? There's your chance, and without the necessity to worry too deeply about clashing rules.

I know there are multiple people that think the stories that could or would be told will be a disaster and they might very well be right, but that doesn't matter to me one bit. What counts is whether the people telling the stories enjoy themselves and the process.

I should also say for the record that some people might only be interested in pointing to their sheets and saying "look at the numbers on my sheet, I am a geek deity!" I don't care in the slightest about that either. It's not for me to judge how someone else gets enjoyment out of their gaming experience whether it is at the level of sublimely beautiful storytelling or straight unadorned number crunching, or from having a geekgasm over hitting Q10 and taking the Planck Scaling power (also known as Bodymorph: Mary Sue).

Carver has pointed out that opening up yet another OW draws energy away from the existing one. I agree and I'd rather avoid that when possible, so I'm ok with joining forces with MCoH if the players wish it, and if we can work out a way to make things happen so that they don't wreck the main 'world' while still offering the opportunity to 'do anything' My concern at this point is that those two ideas might be far enough apart that putting this concept into MCoH would significantly effect the intent of the game.

Right now there seems to be desire on the part of at least five writers who have spoken up so far to have a game setting where anything goes.

But wait there's more!

This setting has another benefit to consider. As was also pointed out yesterday in chat, we are all guilty of constantly flocking to the new shiny games that are being offered on a steady basis. It's just our nature to want to join in on the new cool idea. This OW completely open setting would allow writers to create new worlds with crazy ideas at will. Rather than starting an entirely new game that runs for a couple months and dies a slow painful death, you could 'play test' the concept in this setting then if it turned out to be successful you could always have Chosen copy the story out to their own game threads.

***

Just for the record, my comments above are not directed at anyone specific. Carver has been pretty vocal over the subject, but I've got a great deal of respect for her and her opinion and I don't want anyone to think that because she has posted here that I'm aiming at her. There have been some discussions in chat where several people have commented about the idea and that is more what I'm responding to above with the bold comments. Not anyone specific.

***

[Stargaizer]

I really like the idea, no holds barred. I'll also admit that the 90np is the main focus of my interest, as is the steady progression upwards. Especially for my idea of Joe, I've always wanted to see how he would turn out. I know it's not the same, and it never can be, but I would like to see what it's like to be a full-fledged 'avatar' (lvl 4 or 5 Elemental Mastery over Earth, Air, Water & Fire... maybe with a dot of mastery for each).

I'd just like to see what he 'could' do, what he 'would' do and what he 'wouldn't' do.

[Dave ST]

So... I can make a nova who has Q8, Dominate, Area, Telepathy, and Mastery II?

What's stopping my PC from just sitting in his apartment building maxing his powers and dominating the entire baseline/nova population to commit suicide?

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: Stargaizer

I'll also admit that the 90np is the main focus of my interest, as is the steady progression upwards.

Ok, I'm going to sound irritated about this, and that's because I am. Star, I know you don't have the history here to know this, so I'm trying not to be irritated. I'll just have to ask you to forgive me if I can't be as calm as I should be.

The 90 NP idea isn't special to this game. It's taken right from MCH, which allows you to do a 90NP character from the start. MCH also gives you 20 xp per month of participation. All Fox has done with his proposal is take the upper teir of MCH character allowances, moved it to his setting and promised to take the lid off. That in part is why I'm so opposed to this idea. We almost have it already with MCH; some modifications to MCH (so long as we can all agree) will give you all what you want though you will still have to deal with that pesky shared world thing. It's not enough to write AUs and enjoy telling a good story.

In addition, MCH already has more players than this board has racked up. I count three or four, not five: SG, Fox and Cole/Jer. I have never said I'd join (and I won't) and El isn't clear on whether he wants to read or join. I'm out here trying to get you guys to come to MCH rather than start up yet another OW board that will die within months of birth.

[Stargaizer]

I was unaware of that Dawn... sorry for any offense. I've never been really big on OW, but if that's what it takes for me to let Joe grow and develop...

I'll give MCoH a look-see and see how it looks.

[Mr Fox]

You missed Krul.

I get that you are irritated, and I understand it. I even agree with you on not diluting the writer pool. For my proposal I have taken the upper tier from MCoH as being the starting point because it was the fact that I was feeling stymied in MCoH that lead me to make this offer, no secret there. The vote in MCoH and the way it looks like it is going is fine by me. I'm quite good with joining forces rather than drawing away strength.

You are wrong about the numbers though. For much of the last 2 years MCH was kept alive by me and only a couple others when everyone else walked away. In the last couple weeks interest in MCH has been renewed and that is great, but one post here or there doesn't make an active player. Counting actual active participating regular posters, MCoH has around 5. That's not that many, in fact it's about even with the numbers expressing interest here. Even with the folks who have flocked back to the game in the last couple weeks there are only 10 or so total, but only time will tell if that is real activity or just temporary interest because of a group fic and a vote. I've seen it before on this board where people rush back to an abandoned setting because of a controversial vote then disappear again as soon as the dust settles. I hope that's not the case.

I'm sorry if I in turn sound kinda irritated, I'm not really, but it's a little ironic to me that so much energy and angst is being put into this when for long stretches of the last two years I was one of the very small group keeping MCH alive and now that I've made a proposal to pop the top on the game and take it someplace that I want it to go it generates a mess like this.

But, if we can agree on a way to join forces, MCH won't be losing strength it would be gaining it from those interested in my proposal. The one thing that is clear to me from all of this. I'm not alone in wanting a setting where there are no artificial caps and where any story can be explored. The reasons might be varied and different, but the interest is definitely there.

[Dawn OOC]

I did miss Krul. He doesn't have a profile pic, so I miss his posts sometimes (yes, I am visually oriented. ).

Fox, to be honest, I was more upset that you couldn't break away from MCH's numbers. If you want to do this, why have numbers at all? N!Prime is a better game to 'copy' because you could put in whatever numbers you needed for the story. If you're going to take all the caps off, why not just let people have the PC they need for the story right off?

[Mr Fox]

It is something to consider and if that's what people want to do then that's fine too.

For me personally, I don't feel the thing is real unless it is earned via actual game mechanics, however loose those might be. Sure I could just post that Elspeth is Q10 and has every dot on the sheet filled in, but that would feel like cheating to me. I know, I'm weird. But if the rules state 20xp per month and the sky is the limit and I earn those dots via posting for x number of months then it feels right/legitimate/real, whatever you want to call it.

So even if we decided that you could do whatever you want point-wise, I'll still build my character over time 20xp per month just like I've been doing in MCH because that is what feels right to me. We could tweak the numbers if people wanted to 25 or whatever, but I will limit myself to some kind of mechanic like that.

[Mr Fox]

Incidentally, that is why I was so intent in MCH that it be within the rules of the game. AU's are cool and can make great stories, but to me if it's not in the rules it's not legitimate and feels like cheating to me.

[Kultra_DM]

Originally Posted By: Dave ST

So... I can make a nova who has Q8, Dominate, Area, Telepathy, and Mastery II?

What's stopping my PC from just sitting in his apartment building maxing his powers and dominating the entire baseline/nova population to commit suicide?

He will quickly run out of people who deliver chinese, beer and cable guys to set him up with free PPV!

[Mr Fox]

Oh yeah. I never responded to Dave. Yeah. If building a character that dominates the entire population is what you want to do and you enjoy it then sure. As presented above it sounds kinda boring, but I suspect you could probably make it interesting if you actually wrote it.

[Ptesan-Wi]

Quote:

We are a group of magpies and nearly every time someone announces a new game we flock to the new shiny.

So why in hell are you throwing a new pile of tinfoil at the site?

I'm serious here. If we have problems with maintaining games because people keep rushing to every new shiny that comes along, why are you looking to make yet another flash-in-the-pan that helps to scuttle other games?

And then there's Dave's point, and your response to it. What he pointed out - and apparently you missed - is that at the Q8 power level, there's really nothing to stop a character from doing a complete venue wipe from the comfort of his own easy chair - and do it over and over.

The Q8 power level is a game-breaker unless you've got a mature group of very responsible gamers with a strong ST who will keep them from utterly blowing up the game within the first two days.

[Mr Fox]

Quote:

So why in hell are you throwing a new pile of tinfoil at the site?

Two reasons.

1) The pile of tinfoil I'm offering is unique on the site, no other game offers what I'm proposing. That makes it worth doing.

2) The bullshit reason but still a reason all the same... no one else is going to stop offering their own piles of tinfoil so why should I? Nor will the people most spread thin resist flocking to the new offers even when they argue about how thin people get stretched. I point to Cent's proposal that went up yesterday and the people flocking to it. Ooooh, a new shiny! I admit I was intrigued too, but it's kinda BS to say, it's terrible to keep offering new games that draw the strength away from existing games then two days later a new game gets offered and the same folks jump right on board. Also there is no difference between whether it is an OW and an ST run game. It's the same writer base that is getting spread thin.

Quote:

And then there's Dave's point, and your response to it. What he pointed out - and apparently you missed - is that at the Q8 power level, there's really nothing to stop a character from doing a complete venue wipe from the comfort of his own easy chair - and do it over and over.

The Q8 power level is a game-breaker unless you've got a mature group of very responsible gamers with a strong ST who will keep them from utterly blowing up the game within the first two days.

I didn't miss the point at all. My point is that if the setting is designed the way I've proposed then anyone can sit in their easy chair and hose their world to their hearts content and it won't effect anyone else. And honestly, I really think Dave could make it into an interesting story if he wanted to. He writes some interesting stuff. Not everyone could or would be able to pull it off but No one has the right to deny them the opportunity to try!

Let me restate what I'm proposing: I offer a setting where its possible for the players to crack the Earth they are on like an egg for the sake of their story. Meanwhile, everyone else is safe and uneffected on their alternate Earth. That is unless the players specifically choose to be on the same Earth and therefore are giving their permission for whatever the consequences might be.

Because it's a multiverse concept you can have characters interacting with each other but still can pull out the 'I was on a parallel earth in the universe next door card' and their story can go on unbothered by the fact that in someone else's story LA just got destroyed by an asteroid and Bastions Block party and everyone there got smeared into red stains. *poof* No effect on the game world of the other characters unless they specifically choose to be one of those smears. The Mods, or the player base as a whole or as individuals can decide what events become canon across multiple universes or across the one they are in.

That's what I'm offering and it is unique and therefore worthy of being offered. You can't do that anywhere else on the site.

I'll also say again that I'm fine with merging my concept with MCoH if the folks there want to do that and we can come to an agreement on how to handle the character rules. Otherwise I'll proceed with my proposal as is because there are folks who agree with me that it has value. I hope I've explained it a little better here so that you understand what I'm getting at. I don't see any conflict between what I'm proposing and what you want to see exist in terms of a stable shared world that won't be destroyed in a couple days.

[The Story Guide]

So.....you're talking about an OW game made up entirely of AU's.

Why not just write AU's in MCoH, then?

[Vivi OOC]

At the risk of putting words in his mouth, so to speak- a few of us have suggested this idea to him previously. He said that it doesn't feel "legitimate," because nothing is gained or lost by it, and there wouldn't be anything on the sheet to verify that it happened and experience was gained.

Honestly, Fox, that's basically what it sounds like this all boils down to: You want to write AUs, but you want XP for it (no matter the amount) and to be able to refer to events as if they were canon, but without the limitations canon imposes in terms of consequences in a shared universe... Like a sandbox area in a videogame, where you can slaughter hordes of people and then saunter back into the main storyline without any sort of repercussions, but with all the stuff you gained from murdering said populace. Is that basically accurate?

[Telluris]

We need a new type of board, then. OW-AU.

Or "Oh wow", phonetically.

[Mr Fox]

What Vivi said is basically accurate, but not how I would put it.

What I've proposed would allow an entire group of characters to play together and interact, but still be able to pull out some epic story in which their character did some great or tragic deeds without hosing the entire game world for everyone else. The limitation that you have in a normal shared world is that you have to be very careful not to step on anyone elses toes and you may simply not be allowed to write certain stories because of the effect they would have on everyone else in the game. What I've proposed would eliminate that problem.

And as I've said quite often, I'm perfectly willing to merge my concept with MCoH if the folks in that game want to do that. You could easily have Canon Earth where you have to get Mod permission or permission from fellow players to make big changes that could effect others. But you could also do things on Alternate Earths without having to get permission.

And yes. I do want what I'm writing to be 'legitimate'.

[Dave ST]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but AU fictions are still IC fictions and as long as you post at least once a month in MCoH IC, then you gain XP for it...

Quote:

Let me restate what I'm proposing: I offer a setting where its possible for the players to crack the Earth they are on like an egg for the sake of their story. Meanwhile, everyone else is safe and uneffected on their alternate Earth.

Therefore... PCs can not write fictions together because they are not in the same universe. That sucks. Maybe I wanna write fictions with Infinity, or the lame ass Sun Dude with oh-so-pretty hair. But, I can't because we're all in AUs.

Pass.

[Stargaizer]

I think that something that Fox might be trying to get across, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that he doesn't want to spend the time writing something that doesn't develop his character.

It's not all about the sheet, the xp and the dots (though that is certainly part of it). If what you write is relegated to obscurity, it's a lot of your time that has essentially gone down the tube. Here we're about telling stories and developing characters... at least to the best of my knowledge. If we spend the time to write a story, it should effect the character somehow.

Now, to take Dave's extreme idea... that could be the part of developing that character. Galactus went around gobbling up civilized worlds, it could be that character's growth to go around dominating entire planets or entire universes in the multiverse. It could become the object of the other PC's to stop him... or not. That's what would be the great part of Fox's idea, Dave could completely dominate as many universes as he wanted and grow his character that way, and unless the other PC's agreed to it, it wouldn't effect them or their growth or development.

Fox, do you agree?

[Mr Fox]

SG, Yeah

Dave, what I was trying to get across is that you can interact with people and go crazy without it being mutually exclusive.

Example,

Bastion's block party. Tons of PC interaction, but Bastion is just sick of the snotty little white girl and the potato salad was spoiled. He walks over and rips her head right off her shoulders. Normally that would be an issue seeing as I wouldn't much like Elspeth's head ripped off. Your story is valid, but because your action was not acceptable to me as Elspeth's player that action was performed in an alternate Earth and the party goes on without incident on Canon Earth. Everyone gets what they want.

That's not the best example I grant you, but it's 12:30 at night and I have to get up early in the morning. Do you see what I'm getting at though? What I'm suggesting is like writing AUs, but legimate au's that can effect the character and it's development. What I was suggesting for MCoH (if they wanted to) would be to have some actual permanent gateways set up which would allow the character's to travel from the canon Earth to the AUs and back. That way Bastion could rip El's head off and have it be something he 'actually' did, but still have El walking around happy as a clam in the Canon Earth.

It's late and I'm sure I probably could have explained this better, but it will have to do for now.

[Dave ST]

Oh, so it's pretty much:

"Do as you please, don't worry about ever being accountable for it."

[Mr Fox]

How much you want to be accountable for things is up to you. Would be kinda boring if you never held your character accountable for anything you did. The beauty of what I'm suggesting is that your actions can follow you even if it is only in the character's own conscience. But then again, how accountable you want to be is up to you. If we did the thing with the permanent gateways to the alternate Earths then what's to say one of your victims can't come through the gateway and accuse you of your crimes?

That's the difference between what I'm suggesting and just writing AUs. AU stories have no accountability at all, because with those, it never happened at all to the character it is only a 'what if'.

[Ptesan-Wi]

What is being described isn't so much a game as a sort of text-based masturbation. Have a blast, blow your wad, get your cookie and don't worry about it actually affecting a damned thing outside your own room. No meaningful interaction. No consequences. Just popping crazy powers for the sake of popping crazy powers, in what amounts to a vacuum.

No thanks.