Star Wars: The New Sith Empire - Star Wars: OOC Thread

[Akira]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Joram's Battlemind roll was allowed to trigger later than originally posted. Result of 19, but -8 gets applied to it for an 11. Which means +2, costing 4VP. It won't help in this round, but maybe in the next.

[Akira]

Sorry to double post, but it is a new day for me.

@Dari; Sorry to jump in front of you, did not realize Dari was going to be able to join in the battle with the Disciples yet, I did not read the spoiler box. My bad.

This adds a new dimension to the tactics, rather than edit I will post again IC to cover Akira's unused Free Action. I am assuming this okay since I am not changing anything just adding.

[Dave ST]

You can only take actions, Free or other-wise during your own 'turn'. Your 'turn' is when you post.

The main issue with this is that Akira is making use of information that happened after her action, she has no foresight into what Dari was doing and added new tactics after she and Dari had both gone. An unused Free actions, not used during your 'turn' is lost. Incidentally, had the initiative order been followed Akira would have been able to react as she did.

I've removed the free action post, as it is invalid. Akira will remain in her position until her next turn. At that time she can perform whichever tactics she chooses on her own 'turn'.

Sorry I was so late getting back to this situation, I was enjoying my 4th of July Holiday.

[Akira]

Originally Posted By: Dave ST

You can only take actions, Free or other-wise during your own 'turn'. Your 'turn' is when you post.

The main issue with this is that Akira is making use of information that happened after her action, she has no foresight into what Dari was doing and added new tactics after she and Dari had both gone.

Originally Posted By: Dave ST

Originally Posted By: Akira

How do you feel about simultaneous posting combat situations. It could help move things along. Without worrying about tactical positioning, we not need to wait for others in some cases.

I suppose (if everyone else doesn't see any issues with it) that posting in the initiative order is not necessary, with one caveat: don't post ahead other people without checking with them first.

Since when is posting order changing Initiative order, you never said anything about this when I asked the question. A heads up on this would have been nice.

Dari did not delay and since Dari's actions are technically ahead of Akira's, she would be able to adjust based on Dari's actions. I would think posting simultaneously or out of sequence should not change order of resolution on GM's part. Akira's turn is after Dari's so I don't see any rules violation or cheating here. Maybe it's an etiquette issue, but we asked permission.

So if Dari hits and kills Akira's target, what then? My entire post becomes invalid? Since you are not resolving every action before the next person posts, I was hoping for some flexibility on this.

So my reward for trying to post timely and not hold the game up, is to be penalized for posting out of sequence, after receiving permission to do so. So essentially what you have done is now discouraged us from posting out of sequence again, if you did not want us to do this, why did give the permission in the first place?

[Serena McCoy]

Originally Posted By: Dave ST

I suppose (if everyone else doesn't see any issues with it) that posting in the initiative order is not necessary, with one caveat: don't post ahead other people without checking with them first.

Originally Posted By: Akira

I would think posting simultaneously or out of sequence should not change order of resolution on GM's part. Akira's turn is after Dari's so I don't see any rules violation or cheating here. Maybe it's an etiquette issue, but we asked permission.

I'm not trying to be finicky about this Akira, I didn't make a bit deal about it because it didn't really bother me much at the time, but.. you never asked me permission to go ahead of me as Dave said we should, nor did I grant it to anyone carte blanche - I went back and double checked the OOC thread, since my memory sometimes fails me. But when I saw that you had posted me, I remembered what Dave said and I remember thinking "Did she ask me about going ahead of me?" and remembering that you didn't. I shrugged and went on with it.. it wasn't a big deal with me, since the idea is that all of this is happening right about the same time. But, I would prefer if you didn't base your arguments around something that I didn't actually give you permission to do.

I suppose the only reason I'm pointing it out now is because the rules-lawyering is starting to get a bit tedious. I have faith that our GM placed us against opponents that are an interesting challenge, yet still within our ability to defeat, even if we don't take absolutely every single advantage that we can during the course of the combat. I have faith that if we don't obsess about it, those fights can be very cinematic (in our minds and through our words), and a lot of fun. I'm almost certain Dave didn't put us up against Sith who could be killed with one lucky whack of Dari's electrostaff, so I'm sure we'll all have our change to get our hits in and have fun. Admittedly, I'm more about the story than the dice - that's the type of player I am. The dice, to me, are handy for conflict resolution and the occasional twist of fate. Now, I understand the rules and the dice are what make it fun for some people, and I have no problem with that. Twink out your character all you'd like. Play out all the possible battle combinations in your head. Have a ball with it - really. I've known plenty of players who really enjoy that aspect of the game, in fact my brother-in-law is like that, and that's awesome. As long as it helps you enjoy the game. All I'm asking is if we can try, as a group, to roll with the punches a bit if things don't go as planned - especially at the beginning of a game like this, until we get to know each other's gaming styles and get the feel for how things are gonna go. The less conflict we have about these little details, the smoother the game is gonna run.

My rule of thumb is, if I disagree with something the GM says, I might ask them about it (usually in private, in a PM or in chat when I see them around). I explain myself without getting confrontational. They usually understand where I was coming from (generally if there was a miscommunication) and changes might be made.. or they may stand with their ruling, and explain to me why. I consider it a learning opportunity into the GM's style. I remember that that's how they work in the future, and I adjust my playing accordingly. After all, that person has put a lot of effort into running a game for my enjoyment. I find that as long as I'm respectful about it, either I come away understanding why they made the decision they did, or we both come away with a clearer understanding of what was trying to be accomplished. Either way, the game goes on and people have fun.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. I hope it helps.

[Akira]

My mistake, I had thought everyone had given that permission when circumstances had players separated somewhat. Sorry about that.

If I had known when I was posting that Dari was able to join the fight, I would have saved my draft and waited like I did with Joram. It's my own fault for not reading her spoiler box the first time.

Honestly I don't care about the +2 bonus really, it only has about a 10% chance of making a difference. It just seems like I am getting criticized and smacked every other IC post.

Frankly whether I am right or wrong in this issue, I am probably not going to like the tone of Dave's reply anyway. I am better off just keeping my mouth shut.

So don't bother replying Dave, just move the game along and I will have gotten over it by tomorrow.

[Stargaizer]

He's going to land not far from the temple... awww... I was hoping that he'd land not far from the shuttles. I was going to have him try and take them out in person.

But you're right Dave, that might actually kill him (well, the people might).

And while I don't like sitting out, I'd have to agree with you that he's not going to be able to land, get out, and make it back to the temple before all the PC's targets are dead.

Last question (for now), did the explosion of shuttle 1 and the Swamp Wraith take out shuttle 2 (or at least significantly damage it)?

[Akira]

Dave; regarding the Saving Throw for Move Object. Is using Force Defense to assist the Save as a Reaction viable?

[Dave ST]

Quote:

And while I don't like sitting out, I'd have to agree with you that he's not going to be able to land, get out, and make it back to the temple before all the PC's targets are dead.

Don't sweat it, once the guys in the temple deal with the last Disciple it'll be over. You don't have long to wait.

Quote:

Last question (for now), did the explosion of shuttle 1 and the Swamp Wraith take out shuttle 2 (or at least significantly damage it)?

I hate to answer a question with a question... but why does it matter?

Quote:

Dave; regarding the Saving Throw for Move Object. Is using Force Defense to assist the Save as a Reaction viable?

I already took that into consideration for you. Akira's Force Defense roll would not have provided her with an adequate bonus to overcome the Move Object roll.

When you use Force Defense as a Reaction you only get half the bonus instead of the full bonus.

[Mr Fox]

I'm a little lost, where are we in the round?

[Dave ST]

It's back on you guys... the round just ended and the PCs are up. Every time the Disciples go, the rounds ends right after wards (they go last).

[Mr Fox]

Ok, I'll get a Joram post up after lunch then.

[Akira]

Originally Posted By: Dave ST

I already took that into consideration for you. Akira's Force Defense roll would not have provided her with an adequate bonus to overcome the Move Object roll.

When you use Force Defense as a Reaction you only get half the bonus instead of the full bonus.

Thanks, just checking. While I wait; Disciple 2 is dead, so Akira no longer suffers fear correct?
Edit: What happens if Disciple 1 gets killed while she is in the air, she just falls to the ground correct?

[Dave ST]

Originally Posted By: Akira

Thanks, just checking. While I wait; Disciple 2 is dead, so Akira no longer suffers fear correct?
Edit: What happens if Disciple 1 gets killed while she is in the air, she just falls to the ground correct?

Yes. Effects do not end instantly, they wear off at the beginning of your turn. I know it's pointless at the moment, but in the event that the initiative order was spread out more it would be relevant.

Yes, either way Akira is about to fall 16 meters to the floor. He's not going to bother paying the upkeep to keep her in the air.

[Akira]

Not sure it matters, but Akira would be 'willing' if Joram is attempting to help her, but I think she is still going to fall anyway.

But that happens after her turn, correct? Since she is now free of the Fear with Disciple 2 getting whacked, with her full skill checks maybe Tumble will help some.

I need to look and see if she can save herself, not sure. Tips or help are welcome.

[Akira]

Okay did some looking. If Joram actually made his Move Object DC for Akira's size she could willingly fail her Will Save and be moved by him. But that roll of his is no where close to the DC of 20.

Question Dave; Can Move Object be used on oneself? I looked at the Skill description and I don't think it said yes or no. Looks like another gray area to me.

[Dave ST]

Only if you possess the Feat: Force Flight.

Keep in mind as well that the Darksider called on the Dark Side (spent a Force Point) which stays in effect until his next action. Trying to move Akria is a contested roll against him (he still has to concentrate until his next action). Akira would have to beat his roll of 30, which she can not do.

She's better off just Tumbling and attempting to reduce the damage by 4 meters.

Joram: Move Object to move someone is a Move Action, Joram still has an Attack Action available to him.

[Mr Fox]

Sweet! Btw, Joram will not contest against the Sith. He'll only catch her when she drops. Or attempt to, but probably fail given his poor roll.

[Akira]

Originally Posted By: Dave ST

Only if you possess the Feat: Force Flight.

Keep in mind as well that the Darksider called on the Dark Side (spent a Force Point) which stays in effect until his next action. Trying to move Akria is a contested roll against him (he still has to concentrate until his next action). Akira would have to beat his roll of 30, which she can not do.

She's better off just Tumbling and attempting to reduce the damage by 4 meters.

Thanks.
Yeah all I found was Tumble to help. Force Flight must be in another sourcebook, don't remember seeing that one.
Edit: oh you said Feat. Didn't look there only checked skills.

[Stargaizer]

Who's up anyways, seeing as I'm out for now...?

[Akira]

I am waiting for Dari. Not wanting to skip her like last time

[Serena McCoy]

Ah, my bad guys, I didn't realize SG didn't have anything else to post, I've been recovering from sinus stuff so I've been a bit out of it. I was waiting for him. I'll get a post up tonight. My apologies.

[Stargaizer]

Not a problem. That's the main reason that I posted, to make sure that everyone knew that I was out of the combat, and thus nobody had to wait on me.

[Serena McCoy]

Posted. Sorry again about the delay guys.

[Akira]

The whole Fear thing is a little confusing on how Joram and Dari have been posting about it on the IC thread.

I am not sure if its my understanding that is a little off or not. Given my previous misunderstandings, my confidence isn't so great right now.

But I am going to post IC based as I understand it and let Dave sort it out, if it even matters.

[Akira]

Actually I read everything again. Dark Disciple 2 is the one controlling Fear on Akira and he's dead according to the spoiler block.

But in the description of events before that, it would appear that Disciple 1 got himself killed and Disciple 2 is the one that sent Akira flying and she is still suffering the fear since Joram is not.

I am not sure which is right, but I am going to assume the write-up is more correct and the spoiler block has the disciple's numbers switched.

[Serena McCoy]

I can't answer for Joram, but as far as Dari goes, the descriptions I put in there about her being afraid were pretty much role-play significant only. Dari wasn't engaged with the Sith at the time they cast fear, she was still fighting stormtroopers at the time. So the Sith Force-effect Fear was aimed at their combatants, Joram and Akira. I checked with Dave to make sure that was accurate.

Dari, on the other hand, is just plain old afraid. She's never been in a direct fight with a Sith before, and the stuff they do is scary. So I thought I'd throw that up there. I'm not very good at short combat posts, it bothers me not to add descriptors. Sorry for any confusion that may have caused.

[Akira]

Actually my confusion found its source in Dave's post (see above), but I think I have it right.

[Dave ST]

I'll be updating over the weekend, sorry it's been so long, work + getting sick has really kicked my ass lately. One person at work caught a bug then everyone had it.

[Stargaizer]

Sorry to hear that. Hope you get better soon.

[Akira]

Hope you are feeling better. We are here waiting patiently.

[Dave ST]

Updated, and I'm looking for a way to streamline combat, personally I don't like a combat thread to take a month to get through (although I will admit some of us have been busy).

If anyone had ideas, let's hear em'.

[Stargaizer]

Well, as far as combat goes, we need order, so everybody posting at once (unless otherwise decided, as discussed above) is out of the question... ish.

The only idea that I would have would be for us to start a 'combat tracker' thread, and post our actions/intentions and rolls in that thread, and then have you, Dave, write the narrative (us doing the actions as well as the results which you're doing now). Of course, that would take a lot of the creative-ness away from us, the players, during combat and put a lot more responsibility on you, the ST...

... it's not perfect, but you just asked for ideas.

[Serena McCoy]

I have seen combat flow fairly successfully in a system where each combatant has a certain number of days to respond (usually two at most), and then their turn is skipped and it's the next person's turn. People have a tendency to stay on top of it a little more if they know there's a time limit, so that's a consideration.

[Akira]

I offered posting simultaneously to speed things up, but I was punished for it. (not that it would have made a difference after the enemy's turn anyway). But Dari was never on board with the idea either.

However, I use it in D&D games that I DM and it works okay. Sure people sometimes post actions that need to be changed, because they picked a target that got killed by a person ahead of them in initiative order. But while the players are posting these inputs I read them and give them a heads up to change it. Since the DM must read and resolve the actions anyway, it just means that they need to do some of the mechanical resolutions and provide feedback without waiting until everyone is finished. It can potentially slow down if a person doesn't fix their post timely enough, but generally the players who post early are not the ones holding the game up.

That's the first suggestion I have: After the GM posts, everyone has 2-3days to respond, not waiting to go in order. Then if a person who is higher that you in the Initiative Order posts after you, you can edit and adjust if time hasn't expired. The GM can officially announce this OOC when he begins his official drafting of his resolution post. Then he resolves the dice rolls in order of Initiative, not order of posting. If your actions depend on someone else, ask them for a general idea of their intentions. This could effectively double our current pace with 2 exchanges per week

Second suggestion: everyone just cut back on the story telling during combat if it slows down their ability to respond fast enough. I have been just following everyone else's lead on style (or trying to at least), but honestly 2-3 sentences to describe my actions that correspond to the dice rolls is simple enough (takes only 20 minutes or less) and can be done within 24 hours of the GM's latest post. To me this is better than the suggestion of a separate thread for mechanics and putting the story telling all on the GM. Combine this with the first suggestion and we could have a round of inputs done in 24-36 hours. I have players in a D&D game where this takes less than 12 hours and I have to update twice a day.

Last suggestion: Someone once told me to just roll 2 Initiative Rolls, one for each side (but I have never tried it). The actions are posted by the players as fast as they get them in and resolved in the order they are received. Everyone has 48 hours to input or they are NPC'd for their actions that round. Only problem is two people drafting and posting at the same time could confuse things, but if they can edit their input to fix things then it should be okay. Again combine this with the second suggestion and we could move things along fairly quickly compared to now. However this system could have the same person always going first in combat, just because they are able to respond in RL faster that everyone else. As a player I have never been fond of this, wanting my Initiative to mean something, but I will support this if it is what people want to do.

[Serena McCoy]

Well, for me the storytelling bit of it isn't what takes me very long. I've been doing my best to stay on top of the posting, but I confess the last couple of weeks have been sort of hectic for me as I ramped up my job-finding efforts (or else soon I would have been camping out at coffee shops to post, considering I might not have had the money to pay my electric bill, LOL). Now that I've finally found one - and finished the preparations involved in getting ready for it, I should be able to get posts out on a fairly consistent basis - I looked back and did notice there was up to a three day delay for me these last two weeks, and for that I apologize.

I have to admit I've never seen it done that way, to post out of initiative order, though posting in a way that you might have to go back and edit the post seems a bit counter-intuitive, as far as cutting down time goes. I would think it would make things take longer, but as I said, I've never done it. I wish I could think of additional suggestions to speed things up - as it is, imposing a specific time period is the only thing I've seen work in my experience (which isn't to say other methods don't).

[Dawn OOC]

I know I'm not in this game, but I do run and play in a couple. I might have some input. Honestly, what I've seen work the best while allowing initiative to mean something is the strict 24 or 48 hour window on posts. Once someone misses their turn because they forgot, they tend not to do it again. Or someone realizes their 48 window is closing, and they find the time to post when they might otherwise decide to "just do it tomorrow" (and tomorrow becomes next Wednesday). For those times when people just can't post, most STs are willing to bend that a little for RL, so long as the player tells them of the issue and gives them a reasonable time by which they can post.

[Akira]

Dawn, I too have played games with a strict policy of 24 hours. They ran in strict Initiative order and the GM updated after each player. Problem with that is it is hard to justify when the GM cannot lead by example. In the game we had this policy the GM practically lived on the forum so his response time was rarely more than a few hours when he was not sleeping.

For the record we already have a 48 hour time limit in place if I recall. Maybe it hasn't been enforced, but I have been following it.

Posting simultaneously doesn't negate Initiative, it just sets the order of the GM's resolution. Without worrying about battle grids, I don't it is really that difficult to keep track of with 5 players. But then I use Battle Grids in the games I DM and it maybe helps my players keep track.

Even though I am not a fan of one Initiative roll for the group, it would likely speed things up. We could always try it once for the next combat encounter and see if it works or not.

[Dawn OOC]

The games I referred to with a 48 hour window didn't have an ST who lived here. In fact, he's only on when he's at work, usually. We still got combat done very quickly.

I wouldn't post simultaneously because then you have the slowest acting character (with the faster poster) taking out the bad guy who the fastest character (with the slower poster) would have targetted as well. I think that trying to piece the resolution together would give the ST real headaches and cause situations like when you had your action negated because of posting out of order. Even if it does speed things up in the long run, it requires more edits and interrupts the flow of the story itself when being read by others.

Here's the thing. Real life is always going to get in the way of people posting. There are ways to speed things up, but you have players who have lives and won't camp here waiting for their turn to post. You have players who are here three times a week, maximum. With that kind of attendence, you're always going to have slow combats. And that's not bad - this is a game, and it should come after all the real life considerations that are part of the truly important things.

However, this is all my opinion and I'm not in the game. I was trying to offer some insights and help. I hope you guys find something that works for you. If I find a 'magic bullet' for super-fast combats in my games, I'll drop a note for you guys here, too.

[Dave ST]

I'll get updates soon, guys. Thanks for being patient.