Star Wars: The New Sith Empire - Star Wars: OOC Thread

[Dave ST]

I know I owe you guys some love here and I'm sorry I've been lazy with it, I swear there will be an update to SW soon!

[Mr Fox]

Just so everyone knows, I haven't posted in a couple weeks, but it is more that Joram has nothing to say at the moment. He's just accompanying Dari.

[Akira]

Dave, you said the Jedi were on the Jedi ship. I think the Padawans were all accompanying Dari. Are we getting overruled on this or did you just mean Jedi Masters are on the Jedi ship?

[Dave ST]

Jedi Masters are on the Jedi ship.

Dari and Her father are on the Ambassador's ship (I forgot the name of it, heh).

The rest of you, Padawans included, are welcome to be aboard any ship of your choice. I'm trying not to have the Masters order you guys around, since that seems to ruffle feathers from time to time, so I'm assuming they are going on a 'learn as you go program' with you guys.

The encounter is planned with those in mind who both know how to operate a ship, and those who do not.

Think about it though... there must be a reason I'm giving you a choice.

[Akira]

It would appear that Akira has too much pride and maybe needs to be ordered around.

I will stick with Dari and hope that we get boarded so I have something to do.

[Stargaizer]

FX is with Dari and Akira.

Any idea how old the data is on the hyperspace jump, 'cuz if it's not too old, FX could probably pound it out for the fleet faster than the NPC droids could. Question with this: FX/NPC droids would be able to calculate a jump and broadcast that to 'the fleet' right? One check/calculation?

Also, hyperspace jumps... the book only really covers from planet to planet. That's not something that anyone in this new rebellion would want to do. I'm guessing that it wouldn't be that complicated, but I just wanted to see if there would be any bonuses or penalties to jumping to 'a set of coordinates' (in the middle of absolute nowhere) as opposed to a 'planet'.

[Gabe Meadow]

If the Jedi lacked a good pilot and gunner, then Layel will cover for them. If not, he's on the Ambassador's ship.

[Dave ST]

Coordinates are coordinates. A planet is still a series of coordinates within a star system.

On page 205 of the book it details how it works, it's based on what sector of space you're in, not individual planets.

Dari's information is more than a month old. The Base DC is 25.

It's Outer Rim to Outer Rim: +1 DC

Astromech Droid used: -2.

Final DC is 24.

Base Travel Time is: 96 hours.

Astrogate takes 1 minute (10 rounds) to use.

Broadcasting is not really how it works. One the coordinates are selected the nav computer needs to plot the journey and that's something that can't be rushed, especially when very little data is avail. You could send the coordinates, but then the other ships would still need time to plot the journey in their navcomps.

Once you calculate it though the information would be considered 'current' and while it would not speed up their calculations, it would lower their DCs to make the jump and might even help some of them get there faster.

[Dave ST]

Originally Posted By: Layel Haete

If the Jedi lacked a good pilot and gunner, then Layel will cover for them. If not, he's on the Ambassador's ship.

No ambiguity.

Pick a ship.

The Jedi have a pilot, they might need a gunner though. The Ambassador's ship has a mix of everything so far.

[Gabe Meadow]

Ok, gunner for the Jedi. After all, someone's got to use the real weapons around here.

[Stargaizer]

If Dari's ship has a nav-computer, it's -4 instead of the -2 for the astromech droid. That would bring it down to 22, which FX could get by taking 10...

...but, unless I'm mistaken, that would mean that he couldn't pilot the ship, meaning that the only post that I could really do during the many rounds of combat would be to post up astronomical calculations (which I could do) and possible beep and twiddle about all the moving about of the ship. Thus, unless someone has major objections, FX will pilot the ship.

Also, why wouldn't one ship be able to just transmit its' calculations to another ship within a few klicks of it? Especially for a short jump, with starting positions that close, it shouldn't make much of a difference I wouldn't think. I think I'm recalling in EU books (Rogue Squadron) where one ship/droid/pilot made the calculations for a group of ships and they all used those calculations (i.e. didn't have to recompute).

Not trying to dispute or debate, just using my one 'could you look at this again?' card for this subject.

[Dave ST]

I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish, honestly.

FX takes 10 rounds to calculate the jump to light speed. On the 10th round he transmits the coordinates to other ships and they all blast off into light speed.

or

Instead of waiting around for 10 rounds while FX calculates the route, they all calculate the jump to light speed using their own methods and 10 rounds later they jump to light speed on their own.

Either way 10 rounds have passed.

It's not like the NPCs have no self preservation instincts. They're not sticking around and hoping someone saves them from the T.I.E.s. They're going to jump to light speed and GTFO like everyone else.

[Stargaizer]

The first was what I was going for. The way you explained it the first time it sounded like FX & co would transmit and jump after 10 rounds, and everyone else would have to wait another 10 rounds while they recalculated their jumps (meaning 20 rounds total for NPC's). I guess I just thought that some of the NPC's might be too busy fighting to work on astrogation calculations, but I guess that doesn't really make much sense on second thought.

If the data had been newer FX might be able to split his actions between piloting and astrogating or get it done rounds faster, but as said before, I don't want to basically sit out 10 rounds of combat (how many months IRL) calculating. FX will pilot or at the very least take the shields or a gunner's position.

[Akira]

Not sure how good the NPCs are at Gunnery, but if a non-proficient Attack Bonus of +4 is of benefit, then Akira can do that. Otherwise she can repel boards if that happens and provide color commentary while observing the battle around her.

[z-Hana Rexius]

Hana will be with the ambassador (mostly to keep Puck away from the Masters, just to be safe) and I'm sure Puck will join her.

[Gabe Meadow]

SG: It's 1 minute. Unless Dave has something unfortunate planned or Layel and others can't hold the TIEs off, that's not going to be too long. Besides, you've been told to GTFO. That's ultimately the only good option. Do you disagree with the Jedi?

[Stargaizer]

I know that 10 rounds are 1 minute in game. What I was saying was that playing 10 combat rounds, in this game, on this board, could take a long time. If FX is plotting hyperspace calculations, then he wouldn't be able to participate in any of those combat rounds, and I would be left sitting for a long time doing nothing while everybody else posted.

I don't have a problem with leaving, but nobody has specifically told FX to calculate the jump, so I decided that flying the ship or preforming some other function would be a better course of action. The Masters specifically said "the astromech droids", plural & generic, so I was assuming that they had their own that were going to do the calculations, not that they were ordering FX to do them, so unless I was wrong, I have no problem.

[Shosuro Miren]

Oh yeah, Puck will be playing the shadow to 'his' little Padawan.

[Dave ST]

Ambassador's Ship:

Dari

FX

Akira

Puck

Hanna

Jedi's Ship:

Layel

Joram (will be NPCed until Fox comes back)

For the record Layel... I'm sorry.

Man your battle stations and get prepared for incoming attacks. To save time I rolled everyone's initiative (and before you plague me with inane questions, yes it does include your character's initiative modifier). I'll get Joram up and going here in a moment. The T.I.E.s are closing fast...

Initiatives:

Joram - 24

FX - 13

Puck - 11

Hanna - 9

Dari - 8

Layel - 6

Akira - 5

T.I.E.s - 5

[Dave ST]

I'll be reviewing the combat thread and start skipping people's turns if need be. I've left this alone in the hopes that you guys could manage to handle this on your own since I technically go last. Apparently that's not the case.

Thank you to FX for posting promtly and I'm sorry the rest of us have delayed the game for you.

[Dawn OOC]

I know that Puck's player isn't really doing much posting - RL medical issues again. Do you want to skip to Hana, Dave?

[Dave ST]

Yes, please, if we could get it moving that'd be great. And I hope no one thinks I was trying to sound like an ass in the previous post, that wasn't my intention. I know Puck's player is a bit preoccupied, in fact, Dawn if you'd like to act for Puck in your post (with Mala's permission of course) I'm totally cool with that.

My point, which I poorly delivered due to being in a bit of a rush, was that I'd like to see you guys help each other with checks and balances. If I'm not around than what's wrong with one of you guys picking up the ball and saying 'hey guys, let's keep this flow going'. We're all adults guys, we don't need to sit around waiting for the ST to poke us with a stick. If other players are slowing things down (because hey, life happens) then you are allowed to find out why and poke each other. If I'm slowing it down, poke me!

These games are as successful as we allow them to be. It doesn't fall on any one person.

[Akira]

Yeah, I would say one month is a bit long for trying to do a round of combat. With our track record, people routinely let this game sit fallow for 1-2 weeks for various reasons. Normally I would avoid any game that doesn't have a commitment from all involved to post at least once every 1-2 days. However, Akira is the only Jedi I have left in play anywhere and this is the only RCR game I am in.

I don't live on this site or play anything else here, so I don't know what's going on. The last time I tried to push things along, someone got offended when I went out of turn.

With my own RL issues (looking for work since I got laid off ) I only come here when I get an email notification, but I am still around.

[Serena McCoy]

From the sounds of it, we all let ourselves get stuck waiting on the turn of a character who's been a bit spotty on play due to legitimate medical reasons. (No offense intended Puck.. life happens. ) And I think several of us were probably just waiting for some direction. Since Dave has suggested that he prefers we go ahead and take a bit of initiative ourselves, I suggest the follow. People seem to do well on a "this many days to post" rule. It keeps combat moving swiftly and effectively, without anyone feeling as if they're being ignored or looked over. Do you guys want to agree to a "two days from the last person's post for yours" type of rule, like Dawn does in DR?

[Stargaizer]

Sounds good to me.

[Akira]

I am an very active DM and player on two other sites (URPGs and EnWorld) where the heavy role-playing is often non-existent and general game-play is more of the focus.

I have probably 100 PbP combats under my belt now from behind the DM screen and these are conclusions I have learned from observing other DMs and running games using both methods (Individual & Group):

1. DM should always roll ALL of the initiatives so there is no waiting once the encounter kicks off. No decision making on the players part, so why do they need to roll themselves? However, if one believes differently that players should get to roll for things like that, then ask for the players to pre-roll 3-4 Initiatives and the DM saves them for when needed. Needless delays in PbP should be avoided; things move slow enough as it is.

2. Group Initiatives helps keep flow going when people can only post once per day or less frequent. It means that if you are not waiting on results from other players actions or delaying until after someone else takes their turn, a round of combat can be posted in 24-36 hours and we can realistically complete 3-4 rounds of combat a week. In PbP this is good. This has worked well in all of my games and everyone enjoys it better. I also tend to put a 72 hour limit on the players' round before NPCing the lagging players too.

3. However, individual Initiatives are good for better tactical environments, particularly when the opposition is not grouped all together (I think it should be all or none, btw). In my game with only 2 players, 1 round takes about 24-48 hours. In my game with 3 players, 1 round takes 48-72hours. So with 5+ players & a DM, we can at best average 1 round per week. If the DM is available to post more than once per day, that can get shortened and actual order of the players' turns will cause variance. But, all it takes is a player to have their turn come up 1-2 hours after they went off-line for the night, then if they cannot post the next day for some reason you easily have a 48-hour delay for everyone else. These individual delays add up, so if it takes 36-48 hours per person to update their turn, the next thing you know it takes 2 weeks for 1 round. Not good at all in my opinion.

Bottom line on the Group vs. Individual:

Group will keep things moving faster without much downside. Individual can provide some interesting tactical considerations and challenges, but can significantly slow things down. With 6+ people, the trade-off is not worth it to me, and the tactical considerations are a part of the game I like best.

But wait, someone is bound to think that they don't need to invest in bonuses for Initiative then (i.e. Improved Initiative Feat). Not true, if Initiative is rolled the way I do it (again DM rolling them all).

1. Roll Initiative for every participant individually (even each monster individually).

3. Then average each side for the order between good guys and bad. So high initiative helps your side.

2. Then on the losing side, check the individual rolls. If any rolls beat all of the winning side's rolls then they (and only they) get to act first in Round 1 and then they go again when their losing side goes. So that Rogue with Improved Initiative helps his side win, but if they lose yet he still beats the other side individually, he gets to go first.

This is my two cents on the whole deal. If we want to get this combat done in a timely fashion (before 2012 arrives), switch to group Initiative and put a 72 hour time limit on things before the GM NPCs the character for the round. If a player has RL issues, either they post to give permission for the GM to NPC them or the GM posts to tell everyone he will wait.

[Dawn OOC]

I don't care if Dave wants to roll Init for us all. That's fine. But your system above sounds like we'd be sacrificing part of the game, the flow of combat, just to speed things up. And that to me isn't worth it. Combat isn't a numbers game to get through as rapidly as possible. It's part of the story, because some awesome, incredible things can happen during a fight.

I counter-suggest that Dave does Init rolls (if he desires) and has a posting time limit. The time limit more than anything else can really move things forward. 48 hours is enough time for someone to post, generally, or for the ST to get some kind of notice from them about what they would do if they could post. In my experience here, a time limit usually gets people to post at the first chance they get rather than risk losing their turn.

[Akira]

Originally Posted By: Dawn, OOC

But your system above sounds like we'd be sacrificing part of the game, the flow of combat, just to speed things up.

Really? I don't see how, please explain.

Originally Posted By: Dawn, OOC

Combat isn't a numbers game to get through as rapidly as possible. It's part of the story, because some awesome, incredible things can happen during a fight.

Things like initiative and which player goes first are behind the scenes of a player's post and an artificiality of the game. Regardless of the mechanics, the player is still writing their part of the scene so I fail to see how this would adversely affect anything for a player's individual part in the story. Sorry, I fail to understand your point.

While my explanation focused on time as the main issue (which is our problem at the moment), it assumes the content of the player's post will be the same regardless. I certainly treat my combat posts as role-playing opportunities and situations where we should continue to interact with each other. Perhaps if people didn't have to wait so many days for their turn to come up, they would be more excited and post even more meaningfully when the round begins.

So my proposal is to let the players resolve their actions in order posted during the group's turn instead of waiting around for 2 weeks every round. Perhaps 72 hours is too much for this group, but if Dave gives the players 1 week to post, that should be more than enough time.

[Dave ST]

The explanation looks like no one involved has anything remotely resembling a social life.

I will usually roll initiative, mostly because it's faster than posting for everyone to do it then waiting 24-48 hours for everyone to get around to rolling a single die. Whether I do it, or you do it the result will be the same (1d20+mod).

As far as posting time, I think it's already been said that you have 48 hours to post, that's how we did it in the first combat, more or less. If it will please the court, I can go on and right up a Combat Thread, like Dawn has, and I'll post the standard 'flow' rules there so we're all on the same page.

As a general rule though guys, we have 48 post once the person ahead of us in the initiative roster has their action.

[Akira]

Originally Posted By: Dave ST

The explanation looks like no one involved has anything remotely resembling a social life.

Whatever. I will go crawl back in my dungeon and come out when it is my turn in August.

[Serena McCoy]

Okay. I've sent a quick question to Dave just to clarify a rules issue, then I'll have a post up.

[Dave ST]

I've replied to Dari so things should be moving along soon.

[Akira]

Originally Posted By: Akira

She inquires of the Captain, "How are you situated for gunners, Captain? Though I am not trained properly in their operation, I am fairly decent with a blaster and combat in general. If I can be of use, I offer my services."

I preparing for my turn, I remembered that I still never received an answer for this question. Knowing nothing about the ship or the crew, I have no idea on the answer myself. Who's running the Captain?

[Serena McCoy]

I'm winging it here Akira, and making up some of the crew as I go along, though I assume Dave will be doing the rolls for them. I'm going to assume that the ship has a pilot and co-pilot. (Davbr and Jax, respectively) I think it's safe to assume we don't have any gunners, that people fill in where they can and with what they know. There might be a protocol droid around somewhere, maybe not. Up until now it's been an Ambassadorial ship, and probably hasn't seen a lot of combat. I don't know exactly what Star is planning, whether he means to pilot the ship or man the weapons or what.. but since Dari has no idea what the free droid is capable of, I'm playing her as if she doesn't realize he's going to be contributing just yet.

[Dave ST]

The Crew of the Ambassador's ship are, namely the Captain, are taken from Dari's list of NPCs. In this case Jax is piloting the ship. There was mention of him preparing the ship and being it's pilot previously.

I'll get you guys the ship's models later, this slowed down so much that I misplaced my notes (i.e threw em out the last time I cleaned the house), so get them redone and reposted.

Keep in mind also that unless you're Dari... you actually don't know anything about the ship or the crew. You guys just met these people and have no idea what they're packin' in their ship. Let alone who they are and what they do aboard it.

[Dave ST]

Ship statistics are posted in the rules and errata thread. Scroll down to the bottom. Sorry it took me so long, been a busy couple of weeks.

[Akira]

Quick question before I can post. We have two turrets with separate fire linked cannons, not two turrets fire linked, right?

Dari is intending to man one gun turret herself and asking Akira to stand and watch? I would rather know if the other turret is readily available or not before I post. Thnx.

[Akira]

Okay, we moved sites and it took me awhile to figure out what was going on. Now I need to figure out how to get notification emails again.

[Serena McCoy]

That was the idea, Akira, yes.

[Akira]

I guessed as much Dari, but that is not in Akira's nature if she can participate directly.

Since their Attack bonus is the same, Akira at least would not insist it be the other way around.

I just assumed the answers to my questions as Dave did not answer and the site moved to really throw a wrench in the works.