Scion: Legends of the Wild West - Scion: Legends of the Wild West - OOC Table Talk

[Ouroboros]

Going to give Cora chance to post before I move you forward. Especially since I don't know if the scene needs to move to the cemetery for you three or if there will be discussion/planning first.

[Cora Magnolia Greene]

If I'm holding people up, I'll back out. Really. We're getting into the busy season at work, and I don't have as much time to post as people who go to school or have desk jobs, or don't work at all. I'm a little irritated at people posting over me, though, and trust me when I say I'd much rather step out of the game and let people do their thing than deal with that. If you're waiting on me to post, nudge me. If I don't get to it right away, and don't say anything about it, it's probably because I don't have time. If you nudge me, and I say OK, and still do nothing, then post around me, but please, don't post for me or over me. I'd honestly rather have someone cuss me out- it bothers me that much.

So, there it is. I've said what I wanted to, and that's all I'm going to say about it here. If you feel a need to discuss it with me, just drop me a PM and we'll go from there.

[Ian Gallagher]

Jim, since Ian and Cora are back and away from Hadicall and Chrys, would hearing what they're saying require a listen check? Or is the graveyard close enough where they're clearly audible?

[jameson (ST)]

They're not making any effort to be silent that I can tell so you can overhear w/o a roll.

[Ouroboros]

Hey Folks,

Start a new month so I'll be handing a little exp shortly.

I'll be updating 1a tomorrow (maybe tonight if I get home at a reasonable hour), and will do likewise with 1b. Time to post 'em if ya got 'em.

Posted a themed Labor. Enjoy it, hopefully I will too.

[Hadicall Cerauno]

I'm going to have to pass on these Divine Labor things. I'm short on time as it is so I don't think I'm going to spend a couple hours of my time sitting down to write something up on the off chance that maybe it'll be appreciated enough to get my PC some bonus XP. I'm playing these games because I enjoy playing them, not because I'm here to personally entertain any one individual.

[Dawn OOC]

Chill. They're optional. You don't have to do them. They're like fictions in most other games - extra work for extra reward. If you don't have time, that's fine - you don't have the time. But throwing a fit about it is pointless.

[Vivi OOC]

You should chill, too, Dawn. I think he gets that they're optional. He's also not throwing a fit. He's been quite calm, and from what he said to me when typing his post, he's largely annoyed that someone got a, "Sorry, didn't laugh, try again" response despite clearly making effort. I don't disagree with that, and I don't see that he's throwing any kind of fit or having a tantrum by stating his opinion.

[Hadicall Cerauno]

There's no need for me to 'chill' because I'm not worked up over it. I also didn't 'throw a fit'. I simply stated my viewpoint on something.

Did I do something wrong? Am I not permitted to express my opinions?

[Dawn OOC]

Yes, of course you are. However, when you express your opinions in a way that comes off as rude to others, they can express their opinion about that.

If you have a problem with the way Jim is doing something, talking to him is a far better way to get a resolution to your liking. Announcing that you aren't going to participate makes you look like you're doing the equivilant of taking your toys and going home.

And yes, that is my opinion.

[Hadicall Cerauno]

I'm not going back and forth with you Dawn. Nothing that you've perceived about my statements has been accurate, so kindly let the subject go. If Jameson wants to discuss my statements with me than he can, it's not like the guy doesn't know where to find me.

I've better things to do than play ping-post with you.

[Dawn OOC]

That's fine. I was going to suggest we go to PMs if there was more desire to talk about this. If you do decide to talk some more, I'll be happy to do so by PM.

On a more official note: I've edited my Liv post to reflect some things Jim told me.

[Cherry]

I've edited my post in Divine Labor # 3. I would have deleted it, but I don't have that capability, so I've just excised it and left a short explanation in its place.

Ourobouros, your response to my entry in that thread really took the wind out of my sails, and I've spent the past few days stewing over it and forcing myself not to post anything about it until I felt I could post something that amounted to more than just "you hurt my feelings" or "you made me mad".

As to why that response took the wind out of my sails, here's why: I actually did put hours worth of research, typing and formatting into that entry. Why did I do that? Because I wanted to give you something that was quality and not just some half-assed attempt at Scion-related humor.

Now let's be clear on something: I don't consider myself to be an especially funny guy, and what sense of humor I do have is best described as "off-beat". I posted my entry to Labor #3 not because I thought it was laugh-out-loud funny, but because I thought it was rather amusing in a silly, ludicrous, and goofy kind of way. Had I realized that only entries that actually would make you 'laugh-out-loud' would be awarded, I wouldn't have bothered making an entry.

And not because I would have doubted my ability to make you laugh (though that thought would certainly have crossed my mind), but rather because this is not the sort of 'contest' that I find entertaining, or even really appropriate.

You see, I posted my entry while under the impression that it would be my efforts that would be rewarded, though naturally, my efforts would need to meet the criteria that you laid out - which were as follows:

Originally Posted By: Ourobouros

It's April Fool's day so this one is a gimme: Make me laugh.

How? Tell me a joke. Write a funny (short) story. Or design a goofy funny relic, boon, or other birthright. So long as its Scion related and funny you'll get the reward.

As it turns out, when you typed 'make me laugh', you meant it literally. Now, you might ask why I failed to apprehend this. Well, it's simple really: it never occurred to me that you would award us xp not based on our actual efforts, but on our ability to 'make you laugh'.

And why wouldn't it occur to me that this was the case? Well, because I'm not a comedian, Ourobouros, nor did I claim to be when I registered to join this game, nor did I realize that I would need to be in order to maximize my character's growth in this game.

And now, because I failed to consider that you would actually reward or withhold xp from myself or others playing in this game based solely on our ability to make you chuckle, and instead put up something that was - as you did request - "goofy funny", my hours of work and effort were for nothing. And while I could certainly, as you yourself pointed out in your response, try again, I have to ask myself if it's really worth the effort. Because now I know that if my next entry fails to strike your peculiar funny-bone in just the right way then it too will be a wasted effort.

Basically, Ourobouros, your conditions on this labor make it a crap-shoot, and not really a "labor" at all. Were I an actual comedian, I could scribble something out in fifteen minutes and stand a decent chance of "winning" myself 5xp, but because I'm not I might spend several hours carefully constructing an entry, only to hear once again, "while amusing, it didn't make me laugh".

Now, let me be clear on something; I realize that this is your game, and that the Labors are entirely optional, and that it's entirely up to you as to whether or not a particular entry deserves the xp award. I realize all of this, and I'm not trying to argue differently.

What I am doing is expressing my opinion and feelings, and pointing out that this scenario really doesn't leave one with any reason to put actual effort into this game. It seems like I'd be better served by just dumping a series of scribbled, half-assed entries in the Labor #3 thread until one of them just happens to strike you as funny.

Anyway, I guess I just prefer gaming environments where rewards are based off of such quantifiable things as the work and efforts of the players, and not on such nebulous concepts as 'what I think is funny'. I can understand and accept if that's not the case, but I still felt it necessary to express my opinions on this matter.

[Ouroboros]

If I had known this was going to cause so much of a problem I'd never have bothered. I'm sorry for any confusion or perceived insult or injury, none was intended. Again, I am truly sorry.

I'd hoped that people would enjoy the Labors. That you all would complete them as your time and desire allowed, and that they would enrich the gaming experience. Clearly I am mistaken about their reception, and have made a significant mistake in their execution.

Cherry, again, I apologize for any hurt feelings here, that wasn't my intent. I'd have preferred to have talked with you about all of this before you took down your piece. As it stands if you will put it back up I will give you credit for the labor. Likewise I will not be judging further entries based on their ability to make me laugh.

[Ian Gallagher]

Hey guys. Just a couple notes I want to throw out there.

1) I know you've experienced some frustration with the situation Cent, but on a purely selfish level I heard that your labor was pretty awesome from other people and I missed the chance to read it, so I would love to see it.

2) In 1b right now, I can have Ian do a bit of a filler "Hello and my name is..." post, but other than that it won't have much substance, because he's waiting to see Hadicall and Chrys's reaction to their arrival before he says anything. So, in other words, I'm not trying to rush anyone.. but I probably won't have anything much to post until Had and/or Chrys do.

[Vivi OOC]

Jim: To be clear, I don't have a problem with the labors themselves, or the idea of doing "extra credit" work. I've got a good portion of my entry worked up for #1, in fact. I don't even take issue, personally, with a request for a witty, goofy, silly write-up or short fiction for April Fools' Day. The only problem I had (and the main reason I didn't try to submit anything) was, as Cent said, "make me laugh" was intended to be literal, and it's almost impossible to gauge what might do that without wasting hours of work only to be disappointed. Your response to his entry actually shocked me.

That being said, I think you're doing a good job with the game in general, and that you're handling this situation as well as could be expected under the circumstances.

On another note: Cora's sort of in the same boat as Ian, and if they won't bug you, I will. Chrys, Hadicall, let's move it.

[SalmonMax]

Done. Sorry for the pause. Thought I might wait for Dave, but given he's gonna be busy for a bit, that was probably a mistake on my part.

On with the game!

[Cherry]

Originally Posted By: Ouroboros

Cherry, again, I apologize for any hurt feelings here, that wasn't my intent. I'd have preferred to have talked with you about all of this before you took down your piece. As it stands if you will put it back up I will give you credit for the labor. Likewise I will not be judging further entries based on their ability to make me laugh.

Apology accepted, jim. I appreciate the sincerity of your response, too.

Originally Posted By: Ouroboros

I'd hoped that people would enjoy the Labors. That you all would complete them as your time and desire allowed, and that they would enrich the gaming experience. Clearly I am mistaken about their reception, and have made a significant mistake in their execution.

Actually, I have enjoyed the labors. They've been very cool so far. I even enjoyed putting together the Puff submission (which is back up now, btw, as per your request).

Number 3 caused such drama only because, as has been pointed out, there really is no way for one of us to know whether something we write up will actually be considered laugh-out-loud funny by anyone else in this group. It's sort of like asking us to enter a submission that would make you cry. It'd be next to impossible to know for certain whether our submissions would have a chance at doing that until after you'd read them and rendered judgement, and that sort of thing is frustrating when a lot of work and effort has gone into the creation of the thing being judged.

This is just my opinion, but if you'd like to do something like this again in the future what I'd suggest is having everyone who wants to participate submit their piece, and then everyone gets to place a vote on the submission they felt was the funniest, or the most moving, or thought-provoking, or what have you. I say this because anytime we're dealing with a decision that is based purely on opinion, and which opinion can vary drastically from one person to the next, it's generally best to place the decision in the hands of as many people at once as is possible (as opposed to decisions based entirely on hard facts, in which case it's generally best to place the decision in the hands of as few people as possible, who will preferably have as little bias - or opinion - as possible).

Seriously though, I really like the idea of the Labors, and I enjoyed the first two quite a lot. I'd hate to see them go just because of this one unfortunate incident.

[Hadicall Cerauno]

Posted guys, sorry for the delay, work has been brutal and I certainly appreciate everyone's patience. Especially Max who has been partnered up with Hadicall and been in limbo cuz' I've been busy. Thanks again.

RE: Divine Labors

I think they're a great idea too. I'd hate to see them go over this incident as well, but I'm not here to personally entertain any one individual for prizes.

[Ian Gallagher]

NP, thanks for the post, Had. I about died laughing. And now.. I think I'll settle in and wait to respond w/Ian *AFTER* we get to see Cora's reaction to Hadicall's assumptions..

[Cora Magnolia Greene]

There's really not much for Cora to say that isn't a backtrack. I'll try to come up with something.

[Ouroboros]

FYI for you all; I'll be out of town visiting my family Thursday through Sunday. For the time being I'm going to let you all free RP since the groups are just now coming together fully. When I get back I'll do updates as needed.

[Ian Gallagher]

My apologies, Cora - I thought you might want to respond to Hadicall's assumption that we're there on some sort of date, or that she might have some information to offer. If you've thought of something you want to post w/Cora, that's fine. But if not and you can't think of anything, just let us know and we can keep going. I know time is short for you right now because of your work, so I'm not trying to rush you. But I also don't want to hold up the game if Ian is going to be the only one with something to say either. So just let me know, I'm fine with whatever.

[Ouroboros]

Luke & Kentucky - Are you still in this game? Its been 2+ weeks since either of you have made a post.

[Ouroboros]

For those of you still here: Is the current pacing of 1-2 updates a week acceptable to you? I know people are busy and this seems to be working so if everybody is cool with it I guess we can continue to rock-n-roll.

[Cherry]

I think I'd be happier with just a little more activity, but I can live with 1-2 updates a week as well. Given the overall rate of posting, 1-2 per week does seem a little more realistic, though.

[Ouroboros]

Originally Posted By: Cherry

I think I'd be happier with just a little more activity, but I can live with 1-2 updates a week as well. Given the overall rate of posting, 1-2 per week does seem a little more realistic, though.

Working on that actually, as you saw in the PM I sent you earlier.

[Vivi OOC]

As busy as everyone's been lately, I think the pace of updates has been fine. I know it's hard for me, between work and volunteering, to check things more than once a day (sometimes every two days).

[z-Olivia Jennings]

In 1a, I think we're at a good point to either skip over the night. We could do a planning session, but without knowing what we're going against, it might be futile. What do the other PCs and Jim think about that?

[Justin OOC]

it's fine with me either way.

[Ouroboros]

no problem, I'm going to drop Cherry into 1a to help fill the void left by the dropped slots.

thankfully in a game about gods & godlings Deus Ex Machina isn't really a problem

[Ouroboros]

folks in 1b - I'm gonna wait until at least one of y'all replies to Chrys' question before I move you forward.

[SalmonMax]

Question re: experience.

Chrys should have 13 total, I thought. 4, plus the 5 from the Divine Labor 1?

Then another 4?

[Ouroboros]

4 for March +5 for Labor 2 (which I just added) = 9 (which is what the page now shows)

the only other Exp awards thus far are for Labor 3, which you haven't done yet

[Hadicall Cerauno]

I've added Hadicall's character sheet and experience tracking in his character profile. It's easier for me to update it this way than constantly jumping threads and PMs looking for my sheet. It's all in one place for me to edit.

Personally, I don't mind if other players see my sheet. I'll take it all down if you like (easier to ask forgiveness than permission), just say so.

[Ouroboros]

Hadicall, that's fine with me.

[Ouroboros]

Vivi/Cora - are you still with us?

[Vivi OOC]

Will try to find the time to post after work tonight.

[Ouroboros]

Those of you still active in 1B, I'll allow a round of surprise actions on the zombies (if you are choosing to attack them straight out). When you post please also roll join battle and post that for the first round of combat after the surprise round. There are 6 zombies/corpses/walkin' dead.

[jameson (ST)]

Originally Posted By: Cherry

"You'll make better time what with the sun comin' up an' ..."

Originally Posted By: Ouroboros

The hours wore on until well into the night, the moon starting its downward journey out of the sky they came to the open end of a box canyon.

I didn't meant that to be construed as being near dawn. Dawn is at least a couple of hours away yet for you guys.