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Aberrant RPG - Rules Question: Throwing


SalmonMax
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Can this be right? I was reading the rules for throwing in Aberrant last night, and my jaw fell open in horror. Someone tell me I have it wrong...and if I don't, someone please tell me that there's a generally accepted house rule to replace the book rule.

As I read it, your Might score x5 forms a base range in meters for how far you can throw a 1 kilogram object. You reduce your effective Might by 1 per kilogram over that base. This means if you're a guy with Str 5 and Lift 5, you have 10 Might. You can pick up an unseemly amount of weight...several hundred kilograms. But you can only throw up to 9 kilograms.

The situation is even worse when used with Telekinesis, because the weight lifted scales with successes very rapidly, but the Might of TK is computed using its successes linearly. Which means 10 successes of TK can lift considerably more weight than a Might of 10...but for throwing purposes it is treated exactly the same as a Might of 10. The result is that with 10 successes of TK you can lift 50,000kg...50 tons!...but YOU CAN ONLY THROW 9 KILOGRAMS.

Now I've had my differences with Aberrant's rules in the past, God knows...but this seems absolutely unforgiveable. Especially in light of the fact that the system for computing weight and distance thrown COMPLETELY CHANGES for Mega-Strength! Suddenly the base weight for throwing becomes half the maximum weight instead of 1kg...which might actually let throwing make sense if it was universally applied!

Someone, please help. Tell me I'm wrong, or that this has been fixed somewhere.

Thanks.

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The 'weight' rules for throwing things and for walking around with heavy objects don't make sense and should be house ruled.

I think in play testing people just went with what made sense and didn't read the rules since they're in a different section from where they talk about what you can lift.

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*squirms with helpless rage*

What is the point of playtesting if you don't read the rules?! The whole idea behind playtesting is that you try the rules and see if they make sense! Nnnngh!

All in favor of converting every Aberrant based game on the site to Mutants & Masterminds?

*raises both hands and waves them around*

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*chuckles*

I think that situation you're currently 'suffering' in HC is less connected to M&M's combat system.

Anyway - the easiest way to handle what you suggested Smax is to avoid running any Abby games anymore or houserule them heavily as most people do afaik.

It's the STs call in the end - I had lots of discussions - especially concerning TK and M-Str etc... it was a PITA.

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Yeah, and actually if you read closely at the TK rules and 'infer' the fact that TK successes convert to mega stregth given that they use the same strength scale for lifting then TK should work just like Mega Strength for throwing assuming you get enough successes.

As for straight throwing, it's been a while since I read those rules but I didn't remember them being that bad. Sadly I don't have my books with me on my flash drive today so I can't review them.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Darts should be dex. Shotput should be strength.

Throwing is a solution in search of a problem; IMHO the system works better without it. Someone ran out of good ideas for new skills, specifically new strength skills.

Throwing Knives could/should be Melee. Throwing everything else could/should be Might or Athletics.

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My guess is that Whitewolf was looking at Shot Put records and trying to come up with a linear system for determing throwing distances - and they more or less nailed it, too. Now, why they felt the need for a linear system for throwing, when they apparently didn't feel the need for a linear system for lifting, I don't know - but they did ok at it, in any case.

SalmonMax, notice that the rules say that characters can lift and throw objects heavier than 10kg (and a character with Might of 10 can throw objects up to 10kg - not 9 - up to 5 meters), they just can't throw them very far. The wording is 'the object can be hurled aside at best - about one meter's distance'. Not very satisfactory, but better than zero meters.

The actual throwing capabilities of various normal humans are as follows:

Code:
Might 10     9     8     7     6     5     4     3     2     1
50m   1kg
45m   2kg   1kg
40m   3kg   2kg   1kg
35m   4kg   3kg   2kg   1kg
30m   5kg   4kg   3kg   2kg   1kg
25m   6kg   5kg   4kg   3kg   2kg   1kg
20m   7kg   6kg   5kg   4kg   3kg   2kg   1kg
15m   8kg   7kg   6kg   5kg   4kg   3kg   2kg   1kg
10m   9kg   8kg   7kg   6kg   5kg   4kg   3kg   2kg   1kg
05m  10kg   9kg   8kg   7kg   6kg   5kg   4kg   3kg   2kg   1kg

Current Shot Put records are just past 20 meters - or so sayeth Wikipedia - and the Shot they use for men is just over 7kg (16lbs). A quick glance at the chart will show you that a Might 10 person can throw 7kg 20 meters, which is only slightly less than current world records.

So WW seems to have actually come pretty close to the mark, this time - even though it may not seem like it at first glance.

Having said that, if the throwing distance don't quite match up with what you'd like, then increase throwing distance to (Might x 6m or 7m).

Additionally or alternately, add a ruling that says that once a character has reached that last 5m he can throw an object (say a Might 10 character throwing a 10kg item), he loses 1m (not five) for each additional 1kg (or 2kg, etc - whatever best suits your game's flavor).

Another idea is to say that - just as Might grants a certain 'base' lifting ability (that they don't have to roll for) - treat Might as a 'base' throwing distance, and that characters who want to throw farther than this must roll against a difficulty - exactly as when attempting to lift something heavier than their Might score should allow them to. So a Might 10 character could throw 13kg (~29 lbs) 5 meters (16 feet) if she rolls 4 successes on a Might roll. If the character comes close, but doesn't quite make 4sux (say 3 or 2), then allow them to chuck it 2 or 3 or even 4 meters, but not 5 and not just 1 either. Seems fair to me.

'Throwing' (the skill) is an optional skill only, added (as Courier suggests) as an afterthought in the APG. It is, IMO, a waste of space.

Throwing should be handled by Might when it is a Strength-based, pure-distance-and-we-don't-care-about-accuracy kind of situation, and it should be handled by Athletics when it is a Dexterity-based situation where the thrown item needs to strike in a very specific location. Adventure! suggests handling this by saying that characters can throw accurately up to half of maximum range, adding a +1 difficulty for distances beyond this (up to the maximum, of course).

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The problem is that Shotputting is a sporting event, that follows strict rules about how you're allowed to throw the ball. It's not really the "best" way to throw for distance, and few people would throw a rock or a grenade the same way one would shotput.

But the REAL problem is that the throwing model is completely disconnected from the lifting model unless Mega-Strength is involved. This leads to some preposterous results, especially in situations where lifting capacity isn't tied to the effective Might (as in TK).

Anyway, interesting ideas there, but there's no shining this turd. smile

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Check out Scion, IIRC that system actually accounts for the effects of Mega Epic Strength on throwing, to the point where high levels of E-Str allow a PC to play catch with themselves by throwing an object all the way around the earth (which defies all sorts of physical laws and in a less fantasy more sciencey game like Abby would probably not work)

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Abby is not science, it's fantasy. The science behind the aberrant powers is wrong. It's inaccurate in and inconsistent on several accounts.

Arguing 'science' with aberrant is about as meaningful as arguing it with Shadowrun or Dungeons and Dragons. No matter how you look at it, or what the core book claims it's best to treat it as fantasy.

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What Dave said, laden with a healthy dab of "common-sense house rules for the win."

Aberrant can be a damned fun game, so long as you (1) are willing to accept that no, it's not a perfect reality simulator, (2) no, it's not going to be perfectly point-balanced, and (3) a certain amount of house-ruling helps preserve sanity.

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Just throwing in here to point out that I wasn't trying to intimate that the game should be, or has any kind of obligation to be, a 'perfect reality simulator.'

That said, I still think it's goofy as hell to have an oversight like this appear in a product that was ostensibly playtested before release. I can be very forgiving of games and their quirks...all systems have them, and some of them are pretty wacky...but this strikes me as carelessness on the part of the writers. And I don't think it's an unreasonable way to feel about it. Can it be fixed? Sure. Not even hard to fix it. Does it wreck the system? Course not.

It just bugs me, is all. smile

So, moving on, what sort of house rules do people generally use to patch this little glitch up?

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