Aberrant: 200X - [Proposal Thread] Powers, Enhancements and Rules

[Bombshell]

Okay, I've seen someone with Performance Prodigy somewhere, but I guess I just haven't found the rules for it.

I was looking at making a general Performance based enhancement as well, and have three ideas for how to make it. I'd like some input on which way seems the most balanced, fair, and/or flavourful.

1- Performance Genius: This one functions just like Artistic Genius - Always active, costs no quantum. Make a Charisma roll, each success adds an automatic success when making Performance.

I like this one, because, to me, Arts seems to most analogous to Perform, rather than the skills used with the Mental Prodigy enhancements. On the other hand, compared to many of the other enhancements, Artistic Genius does seem to be overpowered.

2- Performance Prodigy, mark I: Functions just like the other Mental Prodigy - spend a Quantum point. Make a Charisma roll, each success adds a die when making a Performance roll. Benefits last for a minimum of an hour, possibly longer at the Storyteller's discretion.

2- Performance Prodigy, mark II: Functions just like Physical Prodigy - spend a Quantum point, Nova gains +3 automatic successes to any Performance rolls for the scene.

What do you guys think?

[Bombshell]

Well, thread been up for a week, has over a hundred views, but no replies. The Enhancement is now Performance Genius until otherwise stated.

[Vivi OOC]

You know, I'm going to go with "No" on this one. The biggest reason is that you can't just decide that, because you didn't get responses as quickly as you wanted them, you're going to implement it anyway. There are rules set up for this, and everyone's been pretty damned busy lately. We're down to basically two (maybe three) mods for the forum, and I know for a fact they've got a lot going on when they are here.

You don't get to approve things yourself. Sorry, Charlie. You want mod attention, or people to review your stuff? Ask nicely. Say something in the shoutbox. Ask about it in chat. These forums, if you hadn't noticed, are pretty active, so a lot gets overlooked. Even if people have looked at it, it doesn't mean they're involved with the forum, so they don't have any input. I'm going to recommend you take a step back, and hold off on one (or more) of the mods to weigh in. I don't think your world's going to crumble in the interim, and it's less likely to get your character rendered non-canon or turned into an expendable NPC by a mod who took exception to your impatience.

[Bombshell]

Not a problem at all. I realize people are busy, so I didn't want to nag them. I'll take the Enhancement, regardless how it ends up. I will pull it off for now.

[Justin OOC]

I see no problem with the enhancement working like either option 2 or 3

[Warren Verona]

This has been up for seven days only one person has voted. That's not enough to implement this as a new enhancement. Giving people time is a very important part of the process. Another important part of the process is that even after the players have voted it still needs moderator approval.

"Okay, no one said anything so I'm giving it to myself." is not part of the process, however. Just an FYI.

So lets take a look, shall we?

Option 2, Performance Prodigy, seems seems the most likely bet. Keep in mind the bonus dice are not mega dice, so standard success rules apply.

Since one moderator has gone AWOL and the other isn't around, I'll approve this (the option 2 version) enhancement under the condition that if Shae says 'no' that it is taken from play until it meets criteria that we can all agree on. People have had a week to 'vote' and offer up feedback, if they wanted to say something they should/would have by now.

Also note that I'm the sort of guy who generally leans towards an automatic 'no' when the circumstances of "Okay, no one said anything so I'm giving it to myself." arise. Just because we (the mods) are not posting, does not mean we are not reading. I pay attention to 200X, I simply see no reason to interfere with the players and their fun unless issues with the agreed upon rules are in question. So in the future, be patient please? At least one of us is 'listening'. Kay?

[Bombshell]

This is all fine, sorry if I jumped the gun. It really seemed to me that this game has almost become abandoned. I'm glad to hear that there is still at least one mod looking on. I shall be more patient in the future.

[Kazuo]

Hey Bombshell, sorry that you were sort of left hanging there. I actually read your original post shortly after you posted it, and intended to get back to you on what I thought, but I've had a very busy few weeks at work here, and I kind of forgot all about it. Whoops!

(I don't have a home PC right now, so I have to check in from work, which means I don't generally have time to do more than pop my head in and take a peak at what's going on. Hopefully, this situation will get resolved soon.)

Anyway, I'm in agreement with Rev, and I think that the Option 2: Prodigy Mark 1 is probably the way to go. (Yes, I realize Rev already officially approved it for you, I'm just confirming his good judgement )

[z017]

Option 2 looks good to me.

I'm moved now, but still unpacking and integrating a 7-person household at the moment, so I'll still be mostly AWOL for probably another week or so.

As for non-response from the mods: please PM us if you haven't gotten a response and are waiting on something for a current fic. As has been stated many times, this is a busy time of year/life for many of us and often we get less than ten minutes at a time to devote to looking in on things here and responding. The shout-box is also a great way to let us know that there's been something hanging out for a bit that needs attention.

Okay, gotta start work.

[Bombshell]

Okay, more ideas for Enhancements. The first one is based of one of Revenant's ideas from the Ultimate Aberrant game and from Carver mentioning maybe bringing Morri back for the potential Congo Event.

Healing Factor

Prerequisites: Convalescence (The New Flesh, p. 210), Regeneration

The nova's healing capabilities are truly amazing, near instant tissue regeneration becoming his natural healing rate.

system: The Nova automatically heals one level of Health each round per dot of Mega-Stamina, Lethal Damage first, than Bashing. Aggravated Damage is healed at half this rate. The time needed to regrow limbs or organs is divided by his enhanced healing rate (modified for the Convalescence Enhancement). This power won't work beyond the Dead level. This Enhancement is always active and costs no quantum to use, but is not usable while dormed.

This second Enhancement is a modification from the Aberrant Compendium by Sprocket, because I thought his version was overpowered. This is meant to bring it more in line compared to Body Modification.

Robust

Some Novas, especially those with heightened constitutions, are better at resisting damage. This Nova isn't one of them. He's able to take more damage before being incapacitated or dropping dead.

System: The nova’s hyper-tough flesh, bones, and organs grant him an additional [Mega-Stamina] Maimed Health Levels. This enhancement is cumulative with Body Modification: Extra Health Levels. This is permanent, and has no quantum point cost. Three more levels of the Enhancement may be bought. The second level grants extra Wounded Health Levels, the third level grants extra Injured Health Levels, and the fourth level grants extra Hurt Health Levels.

Any Ideas, thoughts, amendments, or alterations?

[Bombshell]

Bump. Any comments?

[Evo]

Originally Posted By: Bombshell

Okay, more ideas for Enhancements. The first one is based of one of Revenant's ideas from the Ultimate Aberrant game and from Carver mentioning maybe bringing Morri back for the potential Congo Event.

Healing Factor
Prerequisites: Convalescence (The New Flesh, p. 210), Regeneration

The nova's healing capabilities are truly amazing, near instant tissue regeneration becoming his natural healing rate.

system: The Nova automatically heals one level of Health each round per dot of Mega-Stamina, Lethal Damage first, than Bashing. Aggravated Damage is healed at half this rate. The time needed to regrow limbs or organs is divided by his enhanced healing rate (modified for the Convalescence Enhancement). This power won't work beyond the Dead level. This Enhancement is always active and costs no quantum to use, but is not usable while dormed.


This second Enhancement is a modification from the Aberrant Compendium by Sprocket, because I thought his version was overpowered. This is meant to bring it more in line compared to Body Modification.

Robust
Some Novas, especially those with heightened constitutions, are better at resisting damage. This Nova isn't one of them. He's able to take more damage before being incapacitated or dropping dead.

System: The nova’s hyper-tough flesh, bones, and organs grant him an additional [Mega-Stamina] Maimed Health Levels. This enhancement is cumulative with Body Modification: Extra Health Levels. This is permanent, and has no quantum point cost. Three more levels of the Enhancement may be bought. The second level grants extra Wounded Health Levels, the third level grants extra Injured Health Levels, and the fourth level grants extra Hurt Health Levels.


Any Ideas, thoughts, amendments, or alterations?

Robust looks perfectly fine to me, though extra Hurt levels might be a bit too much.

Healing Factor..... well, MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!

Sorry... At this rate, Donald will become the new model cockroach in terms of survivability.

[Eingar]

First off, Healing Factor.

In my opinion this should be a Power, not an Enhancement. A Level 3 power, Q4 min. Like Healing, only self-focused, and the amount healed should be equivalent to the dots in the power, half for Aggravated.

Also, as a Power the Healing Factor can be disrupted, which Enhancements cannot. That makes it important from a balance perspective. This prevents Regeneration becoming redundant, because while the ability to constantly heal without QP cost is nice, sometimes you're going to be taking hideous amounts of damage and will need that Regen too in order to stay upright.

,,

I'm generally loath to approve Enhancements that I feel make Powers redundant, providing better effect for less overall cost, and Robust crosses the line, especially when you're talking about buying multiple levels of it. Sure, you need to buy up Mega Stamina too, but that provides it's own benefits. Then you spend 20 XP on this enhancement and you have (at mega stamina 5) 20 extra health levels at 1 XP each.

I'd say that Robust, like most other enhancements that provide constant, no QP benefits (Resilience, Health), should only be buyable up to 2 levels. Is that fair?

[Bombshell]

That all sounds reasonable. I had originally put Robust at 4 purely because with the ascending Health Levels, it made Robust grant up to Hurt Levels, and M-Sta grants extra Bruised levels, it liked the symmetry. But only 2 levels is perfectly fine.

As for Healing Factor as a Power instead of an Enhancement, sure, I hadn't even considered that. Though I still think Regenerations should be a Prerequisite, and Dots in Healing Factor shouldn't be able to exceed Dots in Mega-Stamina. Yeah, I know Quantum Construct is the only power with a Prerequisite, but to me, this makes perfect sense.

[Eingar]

Okay, write Robust and Healing Factor up as approved-for-beta testing Enhancement and Power respectively.

[Eingar]

Another enhancement for people to ponder over. You all know the drill:

Mega-Perception Enhancement: Tremorsense

proposed by WhiteRain

The nova's nerves and skin have become extremely adapt at detecting the minor vibrations caused by things moving over solid surfaces. To a nova with this enhancement, a footstep from hundreds of meters away around several corners might as well be in plain view with a floodlight on the person making it.

This enhancement does not allow a nova to detect specifics about a person, but they will be able to detect approximate weight (say, the difference between a child and a teenager, a teenager and an adult, an adult and a car), numbers and suchlike. Inside a building, the vibrations of footsteps on floors above and below the nova are just as telling, allowing the nova to detect movement throughout the building they're in, and in water any movement will be detected.

This enhancement is ineffective against any target that is not in contact with a solid surface, via gravity powers, flight, hover cars and so on.

System: The nova spends 1 quantum point to activate this enhancement for a scene.

The nova can automatically estimate how many people are in the area of effect, which is determined by the Storyteller but should be linked into the character's dots in mega perception, within a rounded 10% variance, narrowed down by 2% for each success on an awareness roll (so 5 successes means the Nova will always know exactly how many people are moving inside their perceptive radius).

Example: if there's 102 people present, without rolling the nova could tell that there's between 90 and 110 moving bodies there. 5 succs on the roll, and she'd know there's 102.

Additionally, the nova can tell mass and size of those present by the level of vibrations they make. In crowded areas, this would require a roll with difficulty modifiers. To pick one familiar signature out of a crowd also requires a roll, difficulty assigned by how 'noisy' the area is.

All stealth rolls against the nova using this sense fail unless:

a) The area is very 'noisy'. It's easier to sneak up in a crowd than in a quiet dark room.

The person sneaking is also a nova with abilities that could counter the vibrations they make. A nova with Mega Dex could make a stealth roll to move lightly as normal. The Catfooted enhancement works normally against this sense, adding 3 bonus successes to the roll. Density Decrease 1 or 2 means that the nova using this sense needs to make an Awareness roll with a +1 or +2 diff modifier to 'hear' the semi-intangible nova, but that nova does not get a stealth roll unless they additionally have Mega Dexterity. Density Decrease 3 or higher means that a nova is 'invisible' to this sense.

In water the enhancement effects a base area of 20 meters x the Nova's dots in mega perception.

[Bombshell]

This Enhancement looks good to me, except for one thing... you mention the area of effect in Water, is there a different one for being on the surface?

[Justin OOC]

well vibration travels much faster in water than in air I'd assume they're different..

[WhiteRain]

Yeah, that was my thinking too. Not sure what area to set for it though.

Healing Factor: what about 3qp to activate for a scene? That is the standard cost for a lvl 3 power.

[Bombshell]

Well, if you are insistent on a Quantum cost, how about this: Change Healing Factor back to its original form as an Enhancement (requiring Regeneration and Convalescence as prerequisites). Now, Healing Factor allows you to activate Regeneration for the Scene, 1 Health Level per turn per Quantum spent, up to your dots in M-Stamina. For example, if you have M-Stamina 4, you can spend 4 Quantum Pool to heal 4 Health Levels per turn for a scene.

Better?

[Eingar]

Personally I prefer it as written. Maybe paying 3 QP for a scene, but I definitely would like to see Healing Factor stay as a power rather than an Enhancement.

[Bombshell]

I'm fine with leaving it as a Power, but instead of a flat 3qp activation cost, I think it should cost on incremental rate, to keep it closer in line with Healing and Regeneration. So, costing 1qp per rank in Healing Factor to activate it for the Scene.

[WhiteRain]

I don't see the need to change it back. 3 QP for a scene, restoring up to infinity health levels in that scene, is extremely good.

[Eingar]

I agree with WR there. Make it 3 QP to activate for a scene.

Also, I've now retitled this thread and stickied it to make it a permanent fixture on board. Likewise, I stickied Bombshell's Certified Powers thread and the Gods of War discussion thread, which will be used to provide updates to all and notification of XP awards to participants.

[Bombshell]

Added the Quantum Pool cost to Healing Factor. However, I still think it should cost 1qp per level of Health healed per turn, rather than the flat cost of 3qp. More symmetrical with the costs of Healing and Regeneration, and I believe lesser ranks should cost less, just as higher ranks should cost more.

[Eingar]

Proposed revision:

Awe-Inspiring

Broken Enhancement, pure and simple. After the flavor-blurb about 'gods and demons', 'awful visages' and the like, they say that possession of this Enhancement grants 1 auto success for every dot of Mega-Appearance, UNLESS the nova has Aberrations, visible or not, uglifying or not. Each Aberration reduces the effect by 1 auto-success.

Why? "Because Taint reduces the effect." That makes a certain element of sense... kinda. But why doesn't that alter the effect of Natural Agitator? Or Seductive Looks? Or Persuader? Why do the number of Aberrations a nova has, which affects NO other Enhancement or power for that matter, affect Awe-Inspiring alone?

Okay, so looking at the other side: those other Enhancements I listed have certain limitations. No more than 3 auto succs or bonus dice for rolls. Some, like Natural Agitator and Persuader, have a reduced effect depending on circumstances, what the nova is trying to persuade people to do, etc. That's fair. But they also work on novas as well as baselines. Awe-inspiring doesn't.

It's also fair to say that Taint could affect the conscious awe generated by this Enhancement. So my two proposed fixes are:

1) Remove altogether the effect aberrations have on Awe Inspiring. It gives 1 bonus success per Mega-Appearance dot on certain types of Social roll against baselines. Simple

or

2) Replace the effect that Aberrations have with the Taint (not Chrysalis) social penalty. For every +1 diff gained from Taint, reduce the number of auto succs by one, BUT permit it to work on novas too.

Thoughts?

[WhiteRain]

I agree wholeheartedly.

I don't see any sensible reason why the enhancement would be shut off by taint. Leviathan could be awe-inspiring. Awe is not necessarily a positive emotion after all.

So I'd say lose that aspect. It's nonsense.

[Eingar]

Anyone else? I'm going to leave the floor open on this until tomorrow night, my time. If there's no argument by then, the change will go live.

[Eingar]

Right. Rule change on Awe-Inspiring is now in effect and entered into the House Rules.

[Contessa]

I'm submitting this version of clone for review. It's a combination of the d20 version and the d10 version. Basically it breaks down all the components of the Clone power and turns the entire thing into a suite power. To be honest I like it better this way since it makes the clones the more expensive to create the more powerful they are instead of the old fashioned army one could create using only 7-10 quantum points.

Here is people, feedback welcome.

Clone

Level: 3

Quantum Minimum: 5

Dice Pool: N/A

Manifestation Time: 1 full turn (see text)

Range: Personal

Duration: 1 scene

Quantum Point Cost: Varies per Clone

Description: You use quantum energy to create an exact duplicate of you — with the same appearance, memories, basic capabilities and potentially even the same powers.

Effect: You can create a single duplicate with the use of this power and may only maintain one clone at a time unless you possess techniques that provide otherwise. The clone takes one full round to create, and you must do nothing else during that time (not even talk or move). It lasts until the power’s duration ends or until you subsume it back into yourself (subsuming the clone requires physical contact, and may perform no other action for the round, just as with creation). You gain the clone’s memories and experiences when you absorb it. A clone that is not recombined dissolves into nothingness as the energies forming it dissipate. The clone has your personality and outlook, but it is loyal to you and is under your absolute command. It appears to be the same as you, but it loses one die from all Traits (Abilities, Attributes, Quantum Powers, etc). It has a Quantum score, but it lacks any superhuman capabilities or quantum powers that you have (i.e. it’s a baseline with a quantum score).

As with Elemental Anima and Elemental Mastery, this power provides several techniques. A nova may learn and freely use one technique per dot in the power. She may attempt other techniques, but she must pay double quantum cost and roll against a difficulty penalty equal to the increased quantum cost of the desired clone she wishes to create. Each success after the difficulty threshold results in one created clone.

Example: Contessa has the Extra Clones technique. She wishes to create four clones all with Full Power (+1 Quantum Cost) and Manifested Powers (+2 Quantum Cost). Since she does not have those two techniques she must pay twice the extra quantum and roll her Stamina + Clone ability at a difficulty penalty of 6 (+2 for the Full Power and +4 for the Manifested Powers). She rolls and achieves eight successes. Contessa may create only two of the desired four clones and each will cost her 7 (1 for the clone, 2 for Full Power, and 4 for Manifested Powers) points of quantum to manifest, draining nearly half her quantum pool in the process.

Had Contessa had all the appropriate techniques, she have not needed to roll and simply paid 4 quantum points per clone she desired to create, up to her maximum allowed.

Most techniques increase the quantum point cost the power adding 1 or 2 or more quantum points to the cost to create any clone. So a nova with the ability to create multiple clones all with a complete power suite would pay 3 quantum points per clone (1 to create the clone, 2 to ensure they had all the powers). Full Power Clones with Manifested Powers would require 4 Quantum points to create (1 for the clone, +1 for Full Power, +2 for Manifesting their powers).

Techniques include:

Mental Link

Range: 10 miles x Power Rating

Target: Any single clone

Effect: You are in constant telepathic contact with all your clones providing they are in range. You may send your senses to inhabit any of your clones, seeing what they see, hearing what they hear, etc. You may even talk by sending a message through the clone. Once this technique is learned it is always in effect and costs nothing to use.

Clone Fodder

Quantum Cost: One half the number of clones created (rounded down)

Effect: Instead of a more “fleshed out” clone, you create a number of rudimentary duplicates equal to your Quantum + Power Rating. Each is little more than an automaton with Trait scores that are two lower than your own. Clone Fodder may never possess super abilities or powers and are always considered extras. They have little personality to speak of but are great for menial tasks or causing a diversion.

Full Power

Quantum Cost Increase: +1

Effect: Any clone created no longer suffers from having their Trait scores reduced. Each duplicate is a perfect copy of its creator.

Increase Duration

Quantum Commitment: 1 Per Clone

Effect: Duplicates are considered permanent until you decide to cancel the power; they are destroyed, or disrupted in some way. For each Duplicate made permanent you must commit one quantum point to maintaining that clone. Committed quantum points lower the novas maximum possible quantum pool until they are regained.

Power Manifestation

Quantum Cost Increase: +2

Effect: When you create a clone, it gains mega-attributes and quantum powers (except for clone). It also gains a quantum pool equal to half your own (minus the cost of making the clone). However, the clone is still limited to how much quantum it can spend based on your node rating in a single turn. Thus if you have a Node rating of 2 (10 Quantum points/turn) you and your clone could not spend more than 10 quantum points in a single turn, combined.

Extra Clones

Effect: In addition to the base clone, you can choose to create one additional duplicate to a maximum of your Quantum + Power Rating. Each clone created beyond the first suffers an additional –1 penalty to its Traits scores (to a minimum of 1). Each additional clone costs a single quantum point to create.

[Anatoly]

The basic idea might have merit, but I can see several issues with making Clone a technique power rather than a normal power:

Not a technique

First off, unlike Magnetic Mastery, Gravity Control and Elemental Anima/Mastery, which are all based around various ways to control a certain concept or (cosmic) forcce, Clone is much more limited. All it does is make copies of you.

In addition, each of the techniques is a distinct power on its own, and does not rely on the other techniques to function. Your techniques are really Extras, and some actually are Extras from the Player's Guide.

Quantum Cost Increases

I am not sure if there are any other powers that have it, but making techniques within a power cost additional Quantum would be strange. You paid for it with XP, after all, to empower the clones. In addition, it would be an odd-one-out addition to a power since other powers don't incur extra costs for learning more techniques.

Permanency, Extras wit cheese, under/overpowered

I think there's a free-standing rule here that powers that become Permanent are not allowed (such as increased duration). The Telepathic Link technique could be a cheese to get the Extra without increasing the cost of Clone, which isn't what you're hoping to achieve I think.

Second, you'll rapidly drain yourself dry with even mediocre uses of the power. The revised Clone power in the Player's Guide allows you to make [Quantum+Power] Clones at the cost of 1 Quantum each. With Quantum 5 and Clone 1, you can make 6 clones for 6 Quantum.

But they all share your Quantum and Node, meaning they spend your Quantum and are limited to your max spend/turn. Your version provides them with a free Quantum pool, even if they are still limited by your own Node.

This means that if you wanted to become a cheesecake, you could have a small army of Clones that do everything you can, but spend their own Quantum instead of you - permanently too.

Calculation:

Quantum 5, Clone 4 (Full Power, Increased Duration, Extra Clones, Power Manifestation), Node 3

Full Power Increased Duration Clones = 6 Quantum each.

You spend 11 Quantum to make 2 of those (first one's free of the base 1Q). Your Quantum Pool turns from 30 to 19, but that's ok - you can regenerate it later. You will keep 2 of those in check to keep the clones active, so your own Quantum Pool will be at a 28.

Each of your clones gets a Quantum Pool of 14 and all your powers.

This gives you effectively 3 actions per turn, a Quantum Pool of 56 all at the cost of keeping 2 Quantum in reserve.

So this makes the power under-par when you first buy it, but even more powerful than the existing Clone power once you hit 4+. You also spend massive amounts to make the uber-clones, but once you have them, they cost practically nothing to maintain.

Conclusion

It's not altogether bad to make Clones cost more as they grow more powerful, but perhaps using the base power and increasing the cost per Clone from there might be better.

I don't really think it is a technique philosophically, and the techniques in there are Extras converted to techniques. So while one aspect of the power becomes more costly, another becomes cheap. Remember, to get Telepathic Clones you'd need to buy a Weakness (3) for it somewhere, or have Quantum 6 and buy it as a level 4 power.

I hope you can work with this feedback, the idea's good but I see a lot of possiblities for using this power in a god-mode way - perhaps more than the original.

Edit:

What I did when I worked out the concept for how my character's own Clone power works is using the rules for Strengths and Weaknesses instead. For instance, I decided that there were restrictions on when the power would function (it doesn't work in areas with Abnormal gravity or high G forces, such as when in a falling plane or the like. Second, since I based my Clones on the idea of Spatial Equivalence and other semi-scientific babble, I limited it so that it requires my Warp power to be active (they step through that warp).

This way, you can also limit your power initially by putting in a Weakness that you have a maximum number of Clones. I am not a Mod, but I'd say limiting the number of Clones to 3 or even 1 would be quite a hefty weakness. You can then use it to buy Telepathic Link as an Extra, or even reduce the cost of the power.

The only downside here is that the only thing dots in Clone does is give you more Clones. This specifically might be something to look into, that perhaps instead of adding more Clones, more dots in the power alters their duration.

For instance, they last for 1 scene normally, but that might be altered to (Quantum) turns per dot in the power, or (Quantum X power level) turns.

[WhiteRain]

I think that making a 'unique' version of Clone is cool, but not making it a suite power.

There's a reason telepathic link/extra clones etc. are extras. They expect you to be either quantum 6 or to jump through hoops to be able to get access to them, because they take an already powerful power and make it even more so. Extra clones especially is nutso.

I guess the real question is 'why does it need to be upgraded'? Do you feel it's underpowered somehow?

[Contessa]

Originally Posted By: Anatoly

The basic idea might have merit, but I can see several issues with making Clone a technique power rather than a normal power:

Not a technique
First off, unlike Magnetic Mastery, Gravity Control and Elemental Anima/Mastery, which are all based around various ways to control a certain concept or (cosmic) force, Clone is much more limited. All it does is make copies of you.

Actually Clone is is a very wide spread power that allows one, with only a single dot, to accomplish far more than your basic observation of it's use.

Quote:

In addition, each of the techniques is a distinct power on its own, and does not rely on the other techniques to function. Your techniques are really Extras, and some actually are Extras from the Player's Guide.

I assume you mean Mental Link and Clone Fodder and again you've only described them in the most basest of terms.

Metal Link is the Telepathic Link Extra, yes. There is a reason I included it though as a technique and not an Extra: It's the most useless Extra ever. Let's analyze it:

Emapthic Link, Quantum 6 to attain. I can now communicate with my clones. Okay, not too shabby right?

Wrong.

For 5 XP I can take Psychic Link. At Quantum 5, Psychic Link 1 I can communicate with any of my Clones within 6,000 miles, or, roughly, anywhere in the world (the Earth's surface area is roughly 12,000 miles around). Have I mentioned this is a Quantum 1 power? Also as a result, for every Clone created beyond the fist I've increased my mental resistance by +1. I'd get more for a Level 1 Power that a Quantum 6 'Extra' could ever give me. Also, considering each Clone is essentially 'me' I'd only need to pay for the power a single time and the link would be established each time I created a clone. IMO Psychic Link is honestly the way to go.

My 'Extra' (as you called it). As a technique, I can communicate with any clone I create within 10 miles per dot of the Clone power, or 50 miles, tops at 5 dots. Hardly 'extra' caliber.

Lets move on to 'Clone Fodder'. How you considered this an 'Extra', I've no idea. The only thing it has in common with the 'Extra' is the number of Clones it creates. Clone Fodder Creates baseline extras of the nova that are basically automatons that most of us imagine when you summon clones to clean the house, or do the laundry, or run out into the street and get shot because you need a distraction.

They are not novas and designed specifically to be fodder. If anyone actually thinks that baseline Contessa's with no power/mega-atts/ and -2 to all traits is an overpowered 'nutso' idea, then I'm calling you all addled. If you're truly intimidated by baselines, then your nova is seriously weak and probably shouldn't leave the house.

Or did you guys not actually read anything?

I find your 'extra' argument doesn't hold weight IMO, I'm sorry. Those two above techniques do not even compete with Extras and certainly not worth Quantum 6 to obtain.

Quote:

Quantum Cost Increases
I am not sure if there are any other powers that have it, but making techniques within a power cost additional Quantum would be strange. You paid for it with XP, after all, to empower the clones. In addition, it would be an odd-one-out addition to a power since other powers don't incur extra costs for learning more techniques.

First of all the Aberrant rules are hardly consistent on how each individual power description works. I could name off three off the top of my head. Just because it's different, or 'strange', doesn't make it a bad idea.

All I'm reading is 'it's different so I don't like it' or 'it's different and might cost me more quantum to use, so I don't like it'. I'll need more than that.

Quote:

Permanency, Extras wit cheese, under/overpowered
I think there's a free-standing rule here that powers that become Permanent are not allowed (such as increased duration). The Telepathic Link technique could be a cheese to get the Extra without increasing the cost of Clone, which isn't what you're hoping to achieve I think.

This I will concede to, the power was actually written with TT in mind and I didn't change it. The powers duration was supposed to be ten minutes per dot in clone ant the increased duration was meant to be 1 hour per dot in clone.

The committed quantum works better in a TT environment. Also the committed quantum shouldn't be 1 per clone, it should read (clone cost) per clone. Of course that might sound like a lot, but at the table we actually spend XP to increase our quantum pools and have pools in the 70s and 90s which makes a commitment more balanced when maintaining a 'clone army'.

This also solves you argument of 'draining oneself dry'. We never had that problem at the table.

As far as sharing node and having individual quantum pools? It's pretty irrelevant argument considering Enhancement combinations spread across 7 Clones can effectively 'ping' any nova to death. Whether you use powers or mega strength, it's all the same. Again though, individual pools was something that the original write of Clone had and it actually worked out rather well. Enhancements work out even better since they are even free or only cost a single point to activate.

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I think that making a 'unique' version of Clone is cool, but not making it a suite power.

I guess the real question is 'why does it need to be upgraded'? Do you feel it's underpowered somehow?

Mostly because I could take Clone as is and not only duplicate any of it's 'extras' with eithe another power or some other means and turn this one power into something that everyone could agree is more broken than just making is a suite power that taxes the nova for litterally making other novas on demand. The d20 Aberrant book (and no, I'm not saying d20 Aberrant was good by any means) split this power into a suite power and it was actually better IMO than the one presented in the d10 book.

By 5 dots you've finally mastered the power and can create full on powerful clones that the 1 dot version of it just hands you now for practically free, what did you just spend all that XP for? 4 extra clones? You haven't mastered anything but making extras. There is no ladder to climb, not sense of accomplishing anything with the power since the power hands all to you right at the start. And did I mention the Telepathic Link for Quantum 6 is useless?

So those are my reasoning's, I think Clone is one of those powers that has awesome potential for accomplishment, but falls short because it assumes your just awesome right out of the gate.

[Anatoly]

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Actually Clone is is a very wide spread power that allows one, with only a single dot, to accomplish far more than your basic observation of it's use.

As far as I understand it, Clone does only one thing: make copies of yourself. While this in itself can be used in a very versatile way (ranging from ganging up on a person by yourself to finising a mammoth engineering project very quickly) its function by itself is singular.

The technique powers are based around using a single concept or element, and using it in a variety of different ways. If you choose Elemental Anima (Air) for instance, you can use air to damage enemies, shield yourself, fly around, and so on. The same goes for the others.

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For 5 XP I can take Psychic Link. At Quantum 5, Psychic Link 1 I can communicate with any of my Clones within 6,000 miles, or, roughly, anywhere in the world (the Earth's surface area is roughly 12,000 miles around). Have I mentioned this is a Quantum 1 power? Also as a result, for every Clone created beyond the fist I've increased my mental resistance by +1. I'd get more for a Level 1 Power that a Quantum 6 'Extra' could ever give me. Also, considering each Clone is essentially 'me' I'd only need to pay for the power a single time and the link would be established each time I created a clone. IMO Psychic Link is honestly the way to go.

Psychic link allows you to connect to one single individual at a time unless you buy the extra which gives you 2 additional "links". This means that the level 1 power gives mental communication with a single clone at a time. It also costs 5 quantum to establish the link for the first time, so this has to be done when you make the clone.

The Clones are not "you", or else you wouldn't need a power or Extra to communicate with them in the first place. The power says that each is an individual creature in a game sense, so you need to spend Quantum to make the link. You assume that because Clones are duplicates, you don't have to pay for the psychic link, but there's nothing indicating this is the case.

Mental attacks against you have a +1 difficulty per mind in the link - that is a +1 when you buy the power and link with one clone, +3 if you have the extra and connect yourself with 3 clones. This also requires a total of 15 Quantum spent when the clones are made.

In addition, if the mental attack succeeds, all your clones are affected with you. So one single Dominate can completely incapacitate you and all your clones.
If you have the Mental Link extra, the contact is still only communication, and since each Clone is its own person, they might be able to realize what's going on and try to detain you. The latter is a bit of conjecture though.

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Lets move on to 'Clone Fodder'. How you considered this an 'Extra', I've no idea. The only thing it has in common with the 'Extra' is the number of Clones it creates. Clone Fodder Creates baseline extras of the nova that are basically automatons that most of us imagine when you summon clones to clean the house, or do the laundry, or run out into the street and get shot because you need a distraction.

They are not novas and designed specifically to be fodder. If anyone actually thinks that baseline Contessa's with no power/mega-atts/ and -2 to all traits is an overpowered 'nutso' idea, then I'm calling you all addled. smile If you're truly intimidated by baselines, then your nova is seriously weak and probably shouldn't leave the house.

Or did you guys not actually read anything?

I find your 'extra' argument doesn't hold weight IMO, I'm sorry. Those two above techniques do not even compete with Extras and certainly not worth Quantum 6 to obtain.

It's true that Clone Fodder does not weigh in heavy enough to be an Extra in itself. Let's face it, they are indeed good for nothing more than cannon fodder and the laundry.

It isn't that I am saying that they are worthy of being Extras - I am saying that they aren't worthing of being techniques either, and the basic functionality of Clone is too limited to be a full-fledged technique-based power.

Extras are meant to be "ways to utilize the power beyond the basic scope of the power's core description", such as shielding someone else with your Force Field, or having a Fireball Quantum Bolt that also sets people on fire. Concept-wise, the techniques you mention work more like Extras than techniques, that's what I am trying to say.

Now, if for instance the basic Clone technique would lead to:

• Distracting Assault - a technique where your clones surround and confuse enemies, reducing their dice pools

• Bait&Switch - you can switch places with any of your clones

• Coordinate - for each clone you have active, halve the time for an extended task (beyond the 1 hour/dot duration)

• Some other unique effect based on cloning

Or similar more different techniques, then you'd have something more varied than first reducing the Clone power to a lesser version of the book version, then adding techniques to shore it back up, and a few that can be used in very broken ways.

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This I will concede to, the power was actually written with TT in mind and I didn't change it. The powers duration was supposed to be ten minutes per dot in clone ant the increased duration was meant to be 1 hour per dot in clone.

That sounds very reasonable indeed as a duration.

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By 5 dots you've finally mastered the power and can create full on powerful clones that the 1 dot version of it just hands you now for practically free, what did you just spend all that XP for? 4 extra clones? You haven't mastered anything but making extras. There is no ladder to climb, not sense of accomplishing anything with the power since the power hands all to you right at the start. And did I mention the Telepathic Link for Quantum 6 is useless?

I agree fully with the fact that Clone is front-loaded and that - it being a level 3 power - you don't really have any uses for the Extras. But the thing you are mentioning isn't limited to Clone alone, many powers have this.

That's why I offered a possible alternative - limiting the number of Clones or even making them at half traits, which would give you enough points in Weakness to reduce the level of Clone by one (making it cheaper) and/or get a free Extra (like Telepathic Link).
Moderators might have to decide how limited it would have to be to be worth it (for instance, making half your amount of Clones is worth 3 points, being limited to 1 or 3 clones might be 5, Clones at half your traits might be another 3 point weakness, and so on)

This way you are also able to alter the power in a way that lies within the system already, without redesigning the power itself all that much. You'd be working from the template to create your own, unique version.

Off-topic

I imagine myself you are also taking these comments a little too personal. I mean, I read your piece, else I wouldn't comment on it. And while it's the moderatorsplayers who decide what should be denied, tested or accepted as suggested new powers and enhancements, that doesn't mean others can't voice their opinions.

We're not big angry internet bogeymen here to crack down on your work and go "hurr-durr I maintained the status-quo". It's about seeing all sides of the coin.

With comments like:

• if you think this is overpowered then I'm calling you all addled

• if you think baselines are a threat then your nova is seriously weak and probably shouldn't leave the house

• Did you guys not actually read anything?

What are you trying to achieve?

I was giving feedback, you asked for it in your post, and here it is. I agree with the reasoning, I don't agree with the implementation. Moderatorsplayers, however, have the final call. Maybe they think it's perfect. That's also good. Maybe they think it needs to be changed as well for some reason or other. Will you reply to them using the same terms?

Edit: brain should replace mods with players due to writing census and so on. Corrected.

[Eingar]

Originally Posted By: Anatoly

Now, if for instance the basic Clone technique would lead to:

Distracting Assault - a technique where your clones surround and confuse enemies, reducing their dice pools

Not really a power technique, more a tactical maneuver that the power allows, like Hyperspeed Slam. It takes no special application of a sub-power to play mindgames with an opponent, just a Manipulation vs Wits roll.

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Bait&Switch - you can switch places with any of your clones

This, I could see. Almost a type of Transmit or Teleport, dependant on your Clone being present at destination.

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Coordinate - for each clone you have active, halve the time for an extended task (beyond the 1 hour/dot duration)

Again, too similar to a simple cause and effect of having many hands making light work.

As a Mod, an ST and a player, I quite like Rev's writeup of Clone. It's a dangerous power, but then it's supposed to be - it's a Level 3. And this version seems a little more balanced in terms of scaling progress than the original, as well as fleshing out the power into a suite rather than a stand-alone.

Seriously, I think the Bait & Switch technique could rock as well.

[Anatoly]

The techniques were just off-hand examples, based on existing level 1 and 2 powers (like most techniques are) in this case Disorient, Teleport and the like.

They were not suggestions to actually implement.

If this write-up is accepted, would it become a specific alteration for the character/option to take for others, or is it intended to replace Clone altogether?

I am still not convinced you'd need a suite for Clone and that the effect can be achieved in other ways, but if people are happier with it that's what we go for.

[Eingar]

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The techniques were just off-hand examples, based on existing level 1 and 2 powers (like most techniques are) in this case Disorient, Teleport and the like.

They were not suggestions to actually implement.

You gots ta say what you mean when talking rules for Pretendy Fun Time Games, damn it! It's serious business! Don't ever do that again! There's gamers out there, foul things, their shining eyes lurking beyond the firelight, their slavering jaws thirsting for our Dr Pepper, who would take your suggestions seriously! Next thing we know, someone's running a serious oWoD / Trinity mashup collaboration and we're up to our necks in Vampires with the Sparkle aberration and nova furries!



If the writeup is accepted, which will come down to a simple 'all in favor', then it will stand as a viable alternative to Clone should anyone wish to take it, or modify an existing character with Clone to have it.

[Anatoly]

Ein...we already are, aren't we? Don't look to quickly over your shoulder, there's one right behind you.

Edit: Besides, what did I do to suddenly be taken seriously...seriously?

[Eingar]

Right. All in favor of giving this Clone writeup a test drive, say "Aye". "Arr" or "I" are also acceptable.

Arr

[Anatoly]

I believe it requires more thought - the premise is good, but the execution doesn't feel right. I don't believe in Clone as a technique power.

So for now it's Nay from me.