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Open World OWoD game


Dawn OOC

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Setting: Dark Ages to start and we'll work our way to the modern era over time.

Vampires Yes.

Werewolves: Yes.

Mages: Yes.

Wraiths: Yes (but why would you?).

Mummies: No.

Demons: No.

What's with the 'Level 1, 2, 3' System? Dead, forget it. Prepare bribes for the mods instead.

Open World Yes, with Storyteller interaction and player-run plot lines.

Who is gonna mod it? This is in discussion right now; should have it soon.

Experience? Flat rate, open to a 'quality' award or an Plot interaction award. Maturation as described by Reven above between eras.

Who? Adrian, Joani, Rev, Dawn, Fox, Jas, Max, Forge??, Alex, Justin, Brenna, Rorx, and Mala. (Thanks Vivi, for doing this for me!)

This is our status. I'm hoping to make the July 9 deadline that Chosen has given. What have I missed?

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What I've done in SG seems to work out pretty well where xp is concerned. I give 3 xp per month plus 1 xp per fic, or 2 xp if it is a really important or well written fic. That does create an imbalance in character development, but I'm ok with that since I feel those putting in the effort to make 250 posts in the course of a month deserve more than one or two xp. I'm falling behind in DR now because I'm not keeping up with Joani and the others who are fic hounds in that game, so I know what it is like to be on the down side of that equation, but I still support it.

On the other hand, we might strike a balance. Give more base xp per month say 5 to 8 xp and less xp for the fics. I would still like to see the folks writing more rewarded for their effort as I think that promotes more activity and from more activity comes more opportunities to interact. How bout 1 xp for every two fics and 1 xp for a really well written or important one?

Quote:
The other alternative is to Torpor all Vampires (thus cutting off any opportunity earn XP over the centuries) and then do something like Scion perhaps... and awarding them free 'dots' to assign where they like to show the improvement of their PC over time.

Those who have died and are playing descendants well be permitted to make the same PC that died and then add the new bonus dots.

So if you played a Werewolf that had a total Attribute Dot count of 11/11/8 (Primary, Secondary, Tertiary) then you could make your your descendant with 11/11/8 but reallocated if you choose (so perhaps the new PC is more Dexterous than Strong, you could switch out the strength score with the dex score...)

Nice proposal. I support it. Most vamps do torpor from time to time after all.

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We could try and define a reasonable XP-Cap per month (or whatever period of time is reasonable).

I did something like that in my Campaign Game Future Imperfect. I wanted to encourage players to write fics by awarding up to 3 XP per fic.

The players generally get the same amount of XP per chapter/session and the fic-XP as extra. The XP Cap is a multiple of the chapter/session XP. An example would be to cap it at twice the XP that have been awarded to everyone.

Or any other reasonable value.

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XP always seems to be the thing that slows down the construction of a new game which strikes me as odd since it's the one thing that can be decided at anytime. It has nothing to do with continuity or the 'flow' of the game. Nothing to do with creating a memorable character and getting started and certainly it's retroactive, so one we do decide on something everyone will get their due.

It detracts from getting things moving forward.

Monthly XP... it's a pain. Take my word for it.

As a rule, none of the supers advance any slower of faster than the others. Some could argue this by saying Mages advance the slowest because they have 9 spheres to raise at which point I'd explain that if you add it all up it comes out to be about the same as a vampire with their 17 Disciplines.

Mathematically, Werewolves advance the fastest, but they are the biggest problem because they can't have Gifts higher then their rank. So while the Vamps might have Discs at 4 and Mages with Sphere's at 3... the Werewolf is still only using Level 1 gifts.

Frankly, I don't care how much we get each month, week, year... because by the time the modern rolls around the PCs are going to be sickeningly powerful, even if you just sat in the Dark Ages with your thumb in your ass.

You guys hash it out, but seriously those of us who can't live in front of our PCs shouldn't get the shaft on XP awards. I'm all for awarding a bonus to PCs now and again, but when it's the same people just squatting out fics because they've no life that just rewards them for having no life...

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honestly - I was just trying to make suggestions. I could run this without XP and give free advancements to the PCs when I think it's time for such.

I agree with Reven, that it's odd that XP seems to take such a significant role for most people. Then again, I've never been in an open world game, maybe it's really the only important thing for the players...?

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With the way this is getting set up, I'm pretty cool with just a flat monthly xp amount and letting players come in with the same as everyone else has (so you don't have the 'forever running behind syndrome'). It's a mostly OW game, and with round robin ST's I think it'd become a nightmare tracking who's supposed to have plot xp, was that large fic over there actually run by someone or just a multi-player fic?....etc.

Flat xp every month and have fun mucking about in the oWoD as we run through the ages, and the Maturity advancement as we switch ages. That's my vote. It's fairly simple and I think will end up working well. If we need adjust to have any stories to tell in the modern era, we can look at that in the.....four? five? ....years down that line that it'll actually come up.

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I'm ok with things either way. A flat rate per month is alright, I just think that xp awards for fics encourage more writing to be done and thus keep the game healthier. My only issue where xp is concerned is that it not be given at such a small rate that it feels like it takes ages to advance anything. I hate when that happens. smile

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We're going to be spending a lot of time in the Dark Ages.

How fast should characters advance? Should they be able to learn a new Discipline (or similar ability) every in-game week? Should it take them IC months, or maybe years?

I favor slower progression where WoD is concerned.

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We could also create a fixed template for all supernaturals concerning their advancements. That would be universal for all players but I guess that'll be a pain in the ass to develop and balance... (something like a calendar in which you can tell when your next "up" is due).

*sighs*

I also favor slower progression and reasonable advancement.

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I'm not concerned with IC game time passing, I'm concerned with OOC time. Depending on the game, and I have played in some where 2 years passed in the real world where only a month of IC time passed. I'd rather not get 10 xp over the course of 2 years of real time. You may scoff, but I've really experienced that and it's the reason I am concerned with how xp is given. Personally I don't want to play in a game where it takes 6 months of real time to raise a one dot of a skill or discipline.

Btw, I'm not concerned about balance. I'm going to play a vamp and I'm resigned to the fact that a WW could kick my ass or a Mage could turn me into a lawn chair.

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I think we should set it up to either accrue small amounts of xp over short periods of time (like 1 or 2 xp in an OOC week), or monthly xp like in most of the other OW games. I'd prefer not to have a 3 or 6 month xp drop system.

As for xp for fics, if it is going to be done I'd like to see them gain only 1 or 2 xp per fic and put in a monthly cap on xp gains just to keep people that don't opt for a dozen fics a month from being left entirely behind xp-wise.

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Originally Posted By: Mr Fox
I'm not concerned with IC game time passing, I'm concerned with OOC time. Depending on the game, and I have played in some where 2 years passed in the real world where only a month of IC time passed. I'd rather not get 10 xp over the course of 2 years of real time. You may scoff, but I've really experienced that and it's the reason I am concerned with how xp is given. Personally I don't want to play in a game where it takes 6 months of real time to raise a one dot of a skill or discipline.


We'll see to it that this doesn't happen, within reason. After Disciplines or Gifts or Spheres get to a certain point it will very likely take you several months to get enough XP to raise one of them one dot.

I know people are aware of this, and I know it's stating the obvious, but I've found it necessary to point out the simple things to avoid confusion later.

Now, put simply, Elder vamps generally only have 10-13 dots worth of disciplines, and of course exceptions exist. So for those who think that a Discipline, Gift, Sphere dot should fall from the sky every month will be sorely disappointed. Those facets of the supernatural existence are the most difficult to learn and master.
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OK. I would like to hear numbers of what people think is a 'reasonable' flat rate. Keep in mind, your number may not be the one we go with, but a concrete number will let us see where people are, mentally.

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XP cost table:

New Ability 3

New Path 7

New Discipline 10

Attribute x4

Ability x2

Clan Discipline x5

other Disc x7

Virtue x2

Humanity x2

Willpower current

Cost to raise a clan discipline from 1 to 5 = 65 xp

So to raise one clan discipline from 1 to 5 at a rate of 10 xp per month is 6.5 months.

Given that, I'd like to see at least 10xp per month + ability to get extra for Fics. I'm ok, with seeing the fic xp capped at half the regular xp drop per month.

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Originally Posted By: Kyria Thea
I think we should set it up to either accrue small amounts of xp over short periods of time (like 1 or 2 xp in an OOC week), or monthly xp like in most of the other OW games. I'd prefer not to have a 3 or 6 month xp drop system.

As for xp for fics, if it is going to be done I'd like to see them gain only 1 or 2 xp per fic and put in a monthly cap on xp gains just to keep people that don't opt for a dozen fics a month from being left entirely behind xp-wise.


Depending on how this advances PCs should most likely be in the 100XP range before we move on to the next age. The Victorian Era only lasts 20 years, so prolly that'll be a fun blink of an eye for all of us but it'll yield a lesser return in XP since the PCs at 100XP and centuries worth of existence will already be pretty powerful. Once the modern era rolls around all bets are off and the shit hits the fan where we know have sickeningly powerful PCs.

At that point shit will be so expensive that it'll be six months (at least) before you can raise a trait. Rightfully so, you're already powerful.

My point is that since will be working through so many eras of play and the power level for everyone will be so damn high eventually, that how much XP is awarded is almost moot.

Dark Ages - The starting point. We're all Level 1 and are setting out to thump goblins in caves and be supernaturals. XP will be low, advancement will be average. This is the era where you define your character, their blood line, their legacy. Characters are defined by roleplay, not XP. This is the start of it all and this is where you will set the tone for the rest of your 1,000 year trip through time. Worry more about the PCs story, less about how powerful they become since you'll be a damn god in just a few short millenia or so.

Victorian Era - Lines have been drawn, wars have been waged and some of you have been there to see it all. The War of Ages has made every one involved, who has survived, harder and more powerful. Now the Victorian Age is upon the PCs and they're given new ways to wage their wars, to entertain their boredom and are shown new evils to face.

Now the PCs are faced with shadows of their past, survivors from the Dark Ages and bloodlines they thought long extinct. The Garou revere those decendents of mighty warriors and Mages slink from the halls of their Shard Realms to gaze upon old friends and enemies once more. At this point you're pretty powerful and should be able to handle most situations, hell your name alone will make elders on all sides cringe.

Modern Era - Shit's hit the fan. The Sabbat are around, the nephandi are causing trouble, the technocrats are making cyborgs while the nexus crawlers are dry humping the umbra... welcome to the Final Nights, hope you're packing.

Regardless of the monthly awards... we'll end up gods... can we get on with this please? smirk
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There was also mention of Renaissance and Georgian eras, although we don't have to hit those unless a majority of the group wants to.

I have no problems at all with 100xp over the course of a realtime year, that doesn't seem even remotely out of line to me, especially since raising only a single discipline to 5 would cost 65 of that 100xp. That's really not that much growth.

I also don't have a problem with the characters being very powerful by the modern era. That is only to be expected of characters who have lived over a thousand years. If they weren't powerful by that time then we would be doing something wrong.

Ok, I've said my piece. I'm done with the xp discussion.

I get enjoyment out of the writing and that's why I am here. On the other hand I also get enjoyment out of seeing that character grow over time. If the others in the game don't enjoy having their characters grow that's fine too it's no bother to me.

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I fell you on the whole "2 years 20XP for my efforts". That's some B.S. and those involved in getting this show going would certainly not shaft anyone like that.

I'm not opposed to around 8 or 10, but I don't think every fiction should get an award. I've read several where the PCs have accomplished absolutely nothing and somehow got way more XP for it than I thought was fair necessary. But again, these are simple matters that are easily dealt with.

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I don't believe anyone here would shaft the players. That wasn't my concern and I apologize if anyone took it that way.

And I also agree with you that not every fic deserves a reward. As an ST that does check on the players in SG and every month figures up how many fics they participated in I also agree that it can be a pain in the ass. If you are ok with it then perhaps we could meet in the middle and cap the fic xp at 5 per month. That way people get rewarded for going the extra mile, but not by so much that they leave other players behind.

To make it even easier, I suggest we put the burden on the players and in your character profile each player can list the fics they participated in each month, or even send it to the mods in a PM.

Example:

Rorx (Gwyn):

June Fic's:

Playing with Alien Toys

Free flying

SG21 Mission to P3X-abc

May Fic's:

Mission to P1J-335

Free Flying

Pulling a snakes fangs

Etc.

That is just an example.

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Dolore - I hope that plan makes sense... it was late and I was half asleep. frown

Any questions, and we'll chat about it. Honestly though I'm pretty loose about things like plans and what not... if you want to run with an idea I'm all for it.

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I would like some clarification on how to generate a Mage. I started looking at DA Mage, but have now been pointed to Sorcerer's Crusade, which isn't a problem, but does that mean that we a using nothing from DA, or just that the Orders and Spheres are to be used instead of the Foundations/Pillars?

One idea so far is for an Akashic who came over with the Mongols when they invaded Poland about 9 years ago. He has been exploring Europe since, mainly in the company of a few Allies who help him get around the race and religion problems.

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We're using the Spheres and the Orders in stead of the Foundations and Pillars. Aside from that everything else is pretty much the same.

Your Akashic angle isn't bad, but keep in mind that in 1250 you don't 'get around' a religion or race problem. Language problem? Sure. Religion or race... sorry.

That's not to say an Asian man would be kill on sight or anything, but you'd certainly have people on edge and would need to be careful of what he said. The wrong person catches word of it and he's swinging from the gallows.

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Convenient.

Ladies and gentleman, 1250 is a time that can be summed up in a very simple statement. "You're either Catholic, or you're a heretic."

Free thinking and optimism were not very popular back then. Now granted the supernatural population (Werewolves, Vampires, Mages) were a smarter lot and new a few more secrets that the local ignorant mortals they were still by and large still subject to the same bullshit everyone else had to deal with (although a few vampire clans are in the middle of a holy war).

A mongol... a barbarian whose people sacked and raided and destroyed the good Dod fearing people of the west with their devilry and sorcery. Many good crusaders died and many more men of the cloth died as well. Keep in mind people don't care about truth (like he wasn't part of that, or has never killed a man in his life) they only care about the fact that barbarians are Godless heathens.

Now we're not going to ride the asses of everyone who plays an 'out of towner', that's no fun for any of us. But do understand that we're looking for specific things that players tend to do that allow them to circumvent most things that are meant the challenge the PCs or cause problems for them.

If you wanna be a mongol trying to make his way through Venice and just live a decent life of supernatural angstyness feel free, but if you have allies of the church then we want to be able to believe the PC is actually capable of making such a thing happen (which should be detailed in a good background).

A priest and a knight better have a damn good reason for allying with a mongol, lest they be branded heretics as well... unless your mongol is a devout Catholic and has refrained from doing anything that they might perceive as witchery.

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Rome was also conquered by the Visigoths, Vandals, etc... not all its conquerors were mongols. Rome got over it. Also we are just before Marco Polo makes his journey East time wise so attitudes are not fresh in terms of ooh, he's a mongol kill him on sight. Sure foreigners are going to get automatic suspicion but that is always the case right up until modern times and the mixing of populations.

During this time period religion is the big issue. If you pretend to be a good catholic then you would probably be tolerated. If you don't at least make the pretense then it doesn't matter who you are with. If you aren't a visiting dignitary on a diplomatic mission you're gonna get burned or dunked, or at best tolerated but persecuted like the jews.

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It really depends where you are. At this time, the Inquisition is so far from the massive collective White Wolf portrays it as that it isn't even funny. This is not 21st Century United States. It is actually possible to cover a good distance of Europe without anybody giving a fuck about you.

Now, cities are different. Interaction is different. Jews, at least, can move semi-freely in some areas, even if they can't hold public office. Think of it like the South shortly after Reconstruction, with some places being harsher or more violent than others. In 1290 the Jews were actually completely expelled from England and wouldn't be back (except for the secret Jews) for hundreds of years.

For other religions the rules are different. It's probably best to just pretend to be Catholic.

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Let's also remember that this is the World of Darkness. Things are darker, harder, meaner and just plain more evil. When in doubt, follow WW's interpretation of the setting. This is not a historically accurate game. smile It is a Dark Ages game.

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My point was: "Do not create a PC who conveniently has every means available to avoid most problems or issues that are common for the time period. It's a dick move." (and I'm not implying that Rorx was attempting this, it just providing the opportunity to state a reminder for the masses.)

Franky it's the World of Darkness and is not historicly accurate which means I don't give a rats ass about the Jews and their problems or whether or not the Inquisition is portrayed correctly.

The 'spirit' of the time period is all that matters. The 'spirit' is 'religious paranoia', 'close minded dickwadism' and 'kill everyone that doesn't think like me!'. Now add in the World of Darkness theme to it and you have a bunch of people who are depressed, irritable, and oppressed getting shit on by those with power while being preyed upon by every Tom, Dick and Harry that goes bump in the night and what you end up with is a Dark Medieval world that's completely fucking awesome to live in because you're one of the twats with the power who gets to shit on all the plebes!

Awesome huh?

Now make some damn characters already, my PMs have been empty for way too long.

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Yeah, the intention wasn't a 'get out of jail free card' rather than an avoidance of automatically being strung up before having a chance to open his mouth. I expect massive racism and mistrust, although I would also doubt that many would have heard much if anything about the events in Poland and Russia as far away as France/Spain/England.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Time to poke some people.

When we started this, we had several people interested in playing. Of those who expressed interest, we have the following who haven't submitted a character:

Who? Adrian, Joani, Fox, Jas, Max, Forge??, Alex, Justin, Brenna, and Rorx.

I know that Fox has been working on his (and has gone back to the drawing board), Adrian is AWOL and Forge has since changed his mind. What about the rest of you?

Today, we have 3 PCs. That's not really enough, and wouldn't be if we each made another character. If we don't have at least six more submitted by the end of this month (August), I believe we'll have to shut the forum down. I haven't talked to the other moderators, but I think they'll agree with me.

In part, I want to know if people are actually interested or just kinda interested. And if they are actually interested, we need characters to be submitted. smile

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