Aberrant RPG - So What Would You Change

[SkyLion]

Originally Posted By: Noah Weston

Some of individual powers in suites should be modified like the movement abilities...moving between 40 to 100 kph (roughly) is hardly heroic....

Some of the Strength enhancements are total lame if you have 3 or less dots (Shockwave and Thunderclap, I'm looking at you) and aren't that hot even with 4 or 5 dots

Actually the official errata modified this to be your mega autosuz as damage dice rather than mega str dots in dice.

Also, I personally love the idea of the all purpose bodymorpgh being able to be used for things like animorphs and such. Titan Omega had this and it worked surpisingly well. It also nicely avoids the shapeshifting issues you mentioned and fits the "define your power" concept that many forget. But I have little power in ST land and I know I have a more permissive ciew of the rules than others here so I won;t get into an argument. Just letting you know that many STs are okay with doing what you suggest and as always its up to the individual ST to make a ruling. IMHO if it doesnt break the game they usually are cool with it.

[SkyLion]

Originally Posted By: Courier

Originally Posted By: Vivi OOC

As for water/earth created... We're not talking about Splash sweating the water out, or anything- it just appears. It's not excreted, and we're (hopefully) not wearing or eating dirt.

The only hint we have that B doesn't also make it this way is a bad analogy by a Directive agent.

and the picture showing Buendia and his mutant hair....

[Dave ST]

So... out of this list... which are keepers? Some might already be in print in Aberrant, I just didn't feel like deleting duplicates.

Psychological Merits:

Code of Honor (1)

Dual-Nature (2)

Gall (2)

Loyalty (1)

Mental Abilities-Merits

Clear Sighted (3)

Common Sense (1) Shae thinks not!

Concentration (1)

Eidetic Memory (2)

Iron Will (5)

Lightning Calculator (1)

Self-Confident (5)

Time Sense (1)

Awareness Merits

Acute Senses (1)

Nightsight (3)

Aptitudes-Merits

Ability Aptitude (1)

Animal Magnetism (1)

Ambidextrous (2)

Crack Driver (1)

Culture Knack (3)

Daredevil (3)

Graceful (2)

Extremely Skilled

Natural Linguist (2)

Well-Traveled (3)

Supernatural Merits

Charmed Existence (5)

Danger Sense (3)

Green Thumb (1)

Guardian Angel (6)

Honeyed Tongue (2)

Luck (3) (most):

Soothing Voice (2)

True Love (1)

Twin Link (4-6)

Unaging (2)

Social Merit

Child (1-3)

Good Old Boy/Girl (2)

Innocent (2) (Sylvan anyone?)

Pitiable (1)

Prestigious Merits

Corporate CEO (5) (Wealth beyond avarice?)

Hideaway (2)

Local Ties (1-3)

Mansion (2/3) (Look, you actually have all shit you claim you do!)

Nightclub (2) (Look! You really do have a night club!)

Occult Library (2)

Physical Merits

Catlike Balance (2)

Double-Jointed (1)

Huge Size (4)

Light Sleeper (1)

Longevity (2)

Poison Resistance (2)

Psychological Flaws:

Black and White (1)

Compulsion (1)

Tactless (1-2) (Revenant...)

Curiosity (2)

Dark Secret (1)

Deranged (3)

Driving Goal (3)

Flashbacks (3)

Hatred (3)

Hero Worship (1)

Inferiority Complex (1)

Intolerance (1)

Lifesaver (3)

Low Self-Image (2)

Masochist/Sadist (1)

Nightmares (1)

Pacifist (5)

Phobia (1 or 3)

Sensation Junkie (2)

Shy (1)

Soft-hearted (1)

Territorial (2)

Ulterior Motive (2)

Vengeance (1)

Mental Abilities-Flaws

Absent-Minded (3)

Amnesia (2)

Confused (2)

Overconfident (1)

Weak-Willed (2)

Awareness Flaws:

Bad Sight (2)

Blind (6)

Color Blind (1)

Deaf (4)

Hard of Hearing (1)

One Eye (2)

Aptitudes-Flaws

Ability Deficit (5)

Graceless (2) (Contessa...)

Illiterate (1)

Speech Impediment (1)

Supernatural Flaws

Cursed (1-5)

Dark Fate (5)

Offensive to Animals (1)

Otherworldly Taint (2)

Taint of Corruption (4)

Social Flaws

Airhead (1)

Craven Image (1)

Disturbing Mannerism (2)

Enemy (1-5)

Isolated Upbringing (1)

Mistaken Identity (1)

Mistreated Minority (1)

Prestigious Flaws

Persistent Parents (2)

Ward (3)

Physical Flaws

Addiction (1-3)

Allergic (1-3)

Aging (3)

Deep Sleeper (1)

Deformity (3)

Diminished Attributes

Disfigured (2)

Lame (3)

Monstrous (3)

Mute (4)

One Arm (3)

Paraplegic (6)

Permanent Wound (3)

Short (1)

Sterile (1) (Some novas actually are ya know...)

Slow Healing (3)

[z017]

Common sense doesn't seem like it should be a merit. Something prayed for in players but not requiring points to be spent for characters.

Personally, I like having the merit list available for story/character ideas, but as an ST I'm usually pretty picking on what people actually do with them. I've had a lot of ST's that let characters take flaws for extra creation points and then basically ignore them throughout the game. On that note, I'd say that if someone wants to be short or color blind or have a dark secret or amnesia or a code of honor etc. then go for it but it's not gonna net you min/maxing points.

They're great for flavor and suck for the abuse they're usually used for.

[Dave ST]

Originally Posted By: SkyLion

Also, I personally love the idea of the all purpose bodymorpgh being able to be used for things like animorphs and such.

I've altered the shapeshifting power to include individuals who want to create characters that are 'one trick' shapeshifters. Like the werewolf guys and the dragon guys.

Basically by 'specializing' in one paricular form you are granted bonus powers or successes as you increase dots in that power. So while you may not be able to become a brick wall or a fly or a cheetah, you will become a werewolf that is easily more powerful than a shapeshifter of equal power as you simply because you chose to select a single form while Johnny Everything can do it all.

The plus side is that you will be significantly more powerful (and pay less to activate and sustain the power) than a generalist. The negative side will be that you will not have as many options as the generalist and may find yourself outwitted.

[Dave ST]

Originally Posted By: Shae Mansfield

Personally, I like having the merit list available for story/character ideas, but as an ST I'm usually pretty picking on what people actually do with them. I've had a lot of ST's that let characters take flaws for extra creation points and then basically ignore them throughout the game. On that note, I'd say that if someone wants to be short or color blind or have a dark secret or amnesia or a code of honor etc. then go for it but it's not gonna net you min/maxing points.

They're great for flavor and suck for the abuse they're usually used for.

QFT

I feel your pain, I've sat in groups like that too and also had players pissed at me because I called them out on their flaws.

[Mr Fox]

I agree, as an ST I try to use people's flaws against them in the story, but all to often they are forgotten. (out of sight/out of mind) I prefer that people just RP them rather than build them into their characters for point benefits.

[El'Jinn Uu]

I'm game testing some Merits and Flaws (as well as Power Strength and Weaknesses).

We all know the problems with over and under balance assosiated with them and this game I'm in has been all about seeing what does and doesn't fly... Like right now I'm outta QP and dispite (what I call Massive amounts of) min/maxing, I'm still a Frack of allot weaker than many other novas...

Fix 1 for Str & Weaknesses I've found... Double them all! Yes double the point value foreverything BUT Range and Duration, then Double the value of reducing a level from 5 to 10. The biggest flaw to the STR & WK points system has been that is just so freaking easy to reduce levels by simly reducing Range or Duration a little bit, but to affect change in other areas you seem to see allot less gainfulness.

Another BIG point to this system is that no mention is made that when you Increase a level due to Extras, the QP cost of the power does Not increase (as per the new errta found in Players Guide that countered the Original Mainbook ruling), However when you REDUCE a level via Weakness rules, EVERYTHING including the QP cost is reduced as well!

If the QP cost does not change for an increase in level, then Neither should it Decrease for for a reduction. It's not that a power gamer like me Wants to get gimped but, even I know an abusible cheat when I see it.

EXAMPLE-In my game I've paid 5NP for Five Dots in Molecular Manipulation!!! All I did was reduce range by -9 and duration by -4 and NP Cost, QP, and Future EXP cost are all reduced to a level one power...

Was I cheating technically no, Morally yes (even IF this power was excepted by the ST as pay back for 15 years of everyone boning me by stiking me with GM duty and never Once RPing me like they promiced they would) in other words he let me do this as pay-back and a way to finally let me have some fun fer once-even If the game is all about 'game testing'... It's still a game.

The problem with Merist, Flaws & Bonuse Points is that you are that they incline you to WANT to spend them on buying extra Quantum Rating (QR). Not the worst thing since most of Us here are more about the RPing of a game than the cheat factor, but Even 'I' am inclined to wanna do this from time to time.

Can't think of a fix fer this but... I'm sure a simple one exists. Look, I'm not saying or wanting the game to get gimped any since that will just end up hurting the players that are Not abusing the system, but I've ST'ed a game where the players tried all too hard to abuse the game and it was a horrible game time. It was also the last game I ST'ed because of this I stopped GMing 5 years ago.

[Krul]

Well, I've considered this a bit, and I think there should be Theme discounts for NP expendature, at least intially, for players who stay within the theme.

Say, for example, I say I want to play a Master of Flames (as per the Human Torch). I pay a lower NP discount for the following powers - Absorbtion(Energy - Fire Only), Body Morph: Flame, Elemental Mastery (Fire), Elemental Anima (Fire), Quantum Bolt (Fire), & Invulerability(Fire), reducing thier NP cost down a level. Perhaps also Mega-Dexterity, and Mega-Wits (Cause fire is fast and quick), reducing the cost by 1. Then pay regular costs for out of Theme powers, should I ever run an abberant game, I think I'll use this.

[Dave ST]

Originally Posted By: El'Jinn Uu

Fix 1 for Str & Weaknesses I've found... Double them all! Yes double the point value foreverything BUT Range and Duration, then Double the value of reducing a level from 5 to 10. The biggest flaw to the STR & WK points system has been that is just so freaking easy to reduce levels by simly reducing Range or Duration a little bit, but to affect change in other areas you seem to see allot less gainfulness.

The entire Strength and Weakness system needs to go. The whole idea of 'take one from here, add one here' etc, was just poorly planned and it permits gamers (like yourself) to completely abuse the system. I can't claim innocence, I've done it myself. Sometimes just to see if I could and other times with a serious character.

S/W's need to be more focused on the powers themselves and not focused around the stats of the power. Sure, increased range, duration, etc, are the staple increased or decreases and should be in there but there is no mention anywhere about improving the core power itself. A strength that lets you amplify how your PC uses fire, not just it's range or how long it lasts for example.

Quote:

Another BIG point to this system is that no mention is made that when you Increase a level due to Extras, the QP cost of the power does Not increase (as per the new errta found in Players Guide that countered the Original Mainbook ruling), However when you REDUCE a level via Weakness rules, EVERYTHING including the QP cost is reduced as well!

If the QP cost does not change for an increase in level, then Neither should it Decrease for for a reduction. It's not that a power gamer like me Wants to get gimped but, even I know an abusible cheat when I see it.

A power costs it's level to activate, so a level 4 power costs 4qp to activate, that's always been the case. The only exception to this is, of course, the Reduced Quantum Cost' extra.

Even if you raise or lower the power with an extra it still costs it's level in QP to activate, unless there is some rule I've missed somewhere.

Quote:

The problem with Merist, Flaws & Bonuse Points is that you are that they incline you to WANT to spend them on buying extra Quantum Rating (QR). Not the worst thing since most of Us here are more about the RPing of a game than the cheat factor, but Even 'I' am inclined to wanna do this from time to time.

This is one change I've made to the character creation process. Nova's go through two steps during creation (per core rules), the Baseline Stage and the Nova Stage. The problem is that Bonus Points are spent during the Baseline Stage, not the Nova Stage (you can verify this in the character creation chart on page 120).

Here's the problem... Baselines do not have a Quantum Trait. Adding the (1) to the PCs quantum score should not happen until you start the nova phase. Basically, how can you spend Bonus Points to raise a trait that you do not even possess?

Now I know why it's there. In all WW games there is some some defining trait (Blood Potency, , Essence, Gnosis, Rage, Quantum, Psi, the list goes on) that as you increase it you are capable of more powerful things or are just a more bad ass. The trait always costs x8 or something to that effect.

You can not purchase Mega-Atts, Powers, Enhancements... basically nothing that relies on your quantum score, but you can buy quantum itself? The core defining trait that is harder to master than the abilities and powers themselves? It just never made sense to me and most others I've gamed with.

Does it unbalance the game? Nope. Does make for weaker novas? Slightly.

Quote:

Say, for example, I say I want to play a Master of Flames (as per the Human Torch). I pay a lower NP discount for the following powers - Absorbtion(Energy - Fire Only), Body Morph: Flame, Elemental Mastery (Fire), Elemental Anima (Fire), Quantum Bolt (Fire), & Invulerability(Fire), reducing thier NP cost down a level. Perhaps also Mega-Dexterity, and Mega-Wits (Cause fire is fast and quick), reducing the cost by 1. Then pay regular costs for out of Theme powers, should I ever run an abberant game, I think I'll use this.

I agree with this, but the themes themselves are incredibly extensive and would likely require a chapter all themselves. Also there is the issue of people trying to discount their 'theme' when really it's just a selection of power they want o have and not wanna pay for. "My Forcefield looks like fire, that counts!"

It's something to consider, and an excellent idea, but I think it's something that's best used on a case by case basis instead of a hard rule.

As an aside, I don't think mega-attributes should ever be included in a package or theme, but even I've allowed it in the past so I'd be sort of a hypocrite in that regard.

Good suggestions, keep em coming. I'm hoping to have some of the powers ready for review soon. I have to work up the chapter and proof read the few pages that come before the power explanations that explain the descriptors and what all the stuff means. Nothing is really overly complicated, it's just more spelled out now so people can understand it better.

A few changes...

• Almost all 'permanent' powers requires the nova to have at least 1 quantum point in their pool to keep them active. With no juice there is nothing to keep these powers functioning. Even the most hard core nova can be brought down if they're tired out. This encourages players to be smarter with their pools and make use of 'dying for power' or 'eufiber' more frequently.
• Armor is no longer permanent, it's activated and has a visible effect. It can be made permanent with an extra.
• There is a Mental Soak stat (Stamina governs physical soak, Wits governs mental soak). Powers that inflict harm or provide a soak against mental damage will use this trait. Powers defend against non-damaging attacks will provide bonus dice to the Willpower roll to resist the power. Hopefully this will balance some of the issues with Willpower vs. Mega-Mental/Social PCs who can either never win, or never lose an opposed roll. It should also curb some confusion of players who use incredibly obscene soak totals to resist or negate mental attacks despite the soak not justifying it. ("My Forcefield protects me from mental blasts... it just says 'bashing soak' and my 'bashing' soak is 72B").
• Quantum Minimum was removed. The quantum trait is used to determine how much power you character actually has. This effects how long powers last, how far they reach, etc... The main reason for this was that in the Aberrant book the powers did not make sense in terms of why X power could produce X effect but you need a Quantum score four points higher to produce an identical effect in a different power. Level 4+ powers have not been taken into consideration yet... I'm just one guy.

There are more, but those are some highlights... it's time for bed for me...

[z028 Riley]

I love the mental soak rules change. Social/mental characters can be either royally screwed or completely overpowered in the current rules set of Aberrant depending on how the current ST wants to rule on the rather ambiguous rules regarding their powers. The Quartet in 200X is a perfect example of a need for clearly defined rules/resistances to mental and social powers, both in what they can actually do and in how others are expected to react.

[Dave ST]

I'm still dealing with a few balance issues with Mental Soak (auto-sux vs. extra dice, etc.) but so far it looks pretty good. Granted it is one more stat to calculate (which some might not like) but I'd rather spend an extra 4-5 minutes jotting down a few extra numbers than remain clueless.

A lot of these changes are highly inspired by (of all things) d20 Aberrant, Scion, and the oWoD books (which had some awesome social Merits and Flaws).

[SkyLion]

Rev baselines don;t have a quantum score per se, BUT Baslines who are latent have lesser or greater degrees of latency...I always figured spending bonus points on Quantum in baseline phase just meant starting with a higher latency rating and less of other bonus point things, like willpower.

[SkyLion]

also if armor is activated then it is functionally the same as the force field and we don't need two seperate powers for that. You jst have to define it as one or the other the same way you would define a quantum bolt or claws as something.

edit: and afaik, soak *never* applies to mental blasts....the only way you "soak" it is by reducing the net successes with your resistance (willpower) roll and through psychic shiled which adds successes to the roll AND subtracts damage from whatever gets through *that*...

[Dave ST]

Originally Posted By: SkyLion

also if armor is activated then it is functionally the same as the force field and we don't need two seperate powers for that. You jst have to define it as one or the other the same way you would define a quantum bolt or claws as something.

Simply put, Armor is 'worn'. Forcefield is a barrier. Even if you sheathe yourself in your forcefield power it is still a barrier. Some of the revised enhancements will permit mega strong characters to smash through barriers (even forcefields), completely shattering the field and the powers duration in the same way they might punch through a wall.

Armor in this case is not considered a barrier, which makes having the armor power a bit of a boon when you square off against a Goliath, even if your armor power looks like a forcefield surrounding you.

Quote:

edit: and afaik, soak *never* applies to mental blasts....the only way you "soak" it is by reducing the net successes with your resistance (willpower) roll and through psychic shiled which adds successes to the roll AND subtracts damage from whatever gets through *that*...

Mental Invul and Psychic Shield both grant you a soak score bonus, but like most things in aberrant the rules are unclear as to how a mental or physical soak work.

It needed to be corrected.

[SkyLion]

the thing thatr sucks about armor being an activation power is that it does not allow for novas who are always bricks; characters like Rhino or Juggernaut for example. Some novas sure, like Collossus make sense but what if you are tainted out like the Thing? Since when does he have to activate his rocky hide?

Now you may say that novas aren't marvel characters and that's true but IMHO players should be able to use the rules to create whatever type of character they can imagine, not just whatever Dave thinks is permissble...

Re: "mental soak"

I dunno if you had players arguing soak about mental blasts with you they were jerking you around. The rules are clear that you simply take whatever damage gets through your resistance roll...

[z028 Riley]

Sky - If you want a character like The Thing in the system Rev is proposing, you can still make them: all you have to do is buy Permanency as an extra instead of getting it automatically like you do in the standard Aberrant rules atm.

And the mental soak issue is that the rules can be argued because they are vague and ill-fitting in many circumstances.

[Bastion]

Originally Posted By: SkyLion

the thing thatr sucks about armor being an activation power is that it does not allow for novas who are always bricks; characters like Rhino or Juggernaut for example. Some novas sure, like Collossus make sense but what if you are tainted out like the Thing? Since when does he have to activate his rocky hide?

Now you may say that novas aren't marvel characters and that's true but IMHO players should be able to use the rules to create whatever type of character they can imagine, not just whatever Dave thinks is permissble...

Maybe you missed the part about it being able to become a permanent power? I scaled the power a bit, the Marvels you mentioned have Invulnerability, not Armor.

Also I'm not sure if that last was a shot or not but I never said people had to do it my way. The point of this thread is so I can get feedback from people and use their ideas and opinions constructively. Will I use them all? Probably not. Do people have to do it my way? Most certainly not.

I've not even completed the powers section yet so people haven't really even had the opportunity to see what changes I've made and discuss what's good or what's bad. Now I understand that in your opinion you should be able to make any character you want and from what I can tell, thus far, I haven't limited anyone's creativity. People do not have to use my ideas. My goal is to enhance the system and offer players a means by which they can expand on their creativity.

I'm hoping that by the time I finish this players will have several new ideas to make use of at their tables or here on the forums. Like any other system we'll pick out what we like and discard the rest. That's what Dave thinks is permissible.

[SkyLion]

er, yeah I missed the part about permanency. I still think of that as an aberration, which makes it hard in default system to mak certain concpets without going taint monkey, using the flaws system, getting railed at by the ST and other players or all of the above. Interestingly the APG description of permanent power actually suggests that powers for which it would be advantageous actually *should* be able to buy it as an extra.

[The Red Man]

Originally Posted By: Bastion

I'm hoping that by the time I finish this players will have several new ideas to make use of at their tables or here on the forums. Like any other system we'll pick out what we like and discard the rest. That's what Dave thinks is permissible.

Bloody tyrant! We shall never submit to your evil jackboot game-fascism!




Seriously, though, the more I read the more I'm interested in seeing the finished product. Good work, Dave, and it IS appreciated.

On a practical note, I like the Merits and Flaws list, and agree with the Common Sense one being taken out.

[z017]

Originally Posted By: SkyLion

er, yeah I missed the part about permanency. I still think of that as an aberration, which makes it hard in default system to mak certain concpets without going taint monkey, using the flaws system, getting railed at by the ST and other players or all of the above. Interestingly the APG description of permanent power actually suggests that powers for which it would be advantageous actually *should* be able to buy it as an extra.

Sky - if that's the reaction you get to a concept, then it's probably not one you should play. If you think that's going to be the reaction to a concept, then you probably don't want to play it in a group setting.

Oh - Rev, I don't know if you've looked at it already, but the Merits and Flaws listed in the oWoD Hunter's Players Guide is a phenomenal list! Lots of great advantages and disadvantages for much more down to Earth game.

[Dave ST]

Hmm, you know I have the Hunter's PG and I didn't even think to look in it. In fact it's the one oWoD I skipped over...

Thanks Shae, I'll take a look. I don't plan on using all that appears on the list above, I'm trying to, through trial and error, find the ones that best associate with the Aberrant game world. Things like the property Merits and the Black Market ties stuff are good choices but some of the physical aptitude ones might not make the cut unless it's for the benefit of baselines so they have some chance to compete against a nova. We'll see.

[z028 Riley]

A lot of the merits there are things like "Pillar of the Community" and "Close Family (actually a flaw)", just tons of 'hey, remember that you had a life before becoming a supernatural hunter of things that go bump in the night?' merits and flaws for the ST to mess around with you on.

I think it even has one that's like 'good credit'.

[SkyLion]

re: m&f...

common sense I believe was made as something to give to players new to rp, so the ST can give them hints if they are about to make an ignorent gaffe.

oWoD is great...they have merits like "nightclub owner" or "church ties".

Bard's Tongue is always fun when playing teeps or precogs.

oh! And you left out Black Thumb, the natural opposite of Green Thumb and both are fantastic if you want to run Aberrant: Fern Gully.

[Dave ST]

Originally Posted By: SkyLion

common sense I believe was made as something to give to players new to rp, so the ST can give them hints if they are about to make an ignorent gaffe.

Actually you are right on the money Sky, that's exactly what it was put in there for.

To be honest though, I usually help the newer and the veterans out a little bit anyways, so it's like all my players already get the merit. That's one of the reasons I agreed to nix it.

[Courier]

I like the Merits/Flaws list. It looks well done.

[El'Jinn Uu]

Originally Posted By: Dave ST

Originally Posted By: El'Jinn Uu

Fix 1 for Str & Weaknesses I've found... Double them all! Yes double the point value foreverything BUT Range and Duration, then Double the value of reducing a level from 5 to 10. The biggest flaw to the STR & WK points system has been that is just so freaking easy to reduce levels by simly reducing Range or Duration a little bit, but to affect change in other areas you seem to see allot less gainfulness.

The entire Strength and Weakness system needs to go. The whole idea of 'take one from here, add one here' etc, was just poorly planned and it permits gamers (like yourself) to completely abuse the system. I can't claim innocence, I've done it myself. Sometimes just to see if I could and other times with a serious character.

Heh
Yeah, this is still my first time power gaming... Well, min/maxing that is since all those weaknesses are starting to limit me a bit, but I just figured I could do it this once since all I've ever done is tell people to"cut loose" and I always end up playing super prudish, I just didn't wanna sound like I'd never done it myself after having always made the suggestion to others to go for it.

That said, I'm not having all That much fun, as I figured would happen, by cheating (IE: being game legal in a creative manor) since I'm used ta doing everything the hard way. So far all I've done is intentionally whipe my QPool down to nothing leaving me not much better than a baseline, and Now the fun is there.

Really I just wanted to play ABBY a little lose before someone goes out and makes an "official" rewrite of the game and gimps it into non-existance due to their bad memmories of bad players. I just like the game fer the most part (99%) because I never cheated, min-max'ed, power gamed, or munchkined it... But I know why it Has to chamge and why You guys hate it as is and I can completely sympathize with you.


For me, It looks like I'm already back to GMing games fer others... And it's Rifts no less (Noooooooo, Not Rifts, anyTing but Rifts ). I think since everyone here is moving on from Aberrant, and abby was my main reason for coming here I can finally feel to move on.


Good luck with your system reboot Dave, it looks very well thoought out.

[SkyLion]

Hey spea for yourself buddy! I'm not moving on! For all the gripes there is still a reason why this board has been playing aberrant for a decade...for all its problems it's an awesome game! And Dave's rewrite here is just his own project...doesn;t mean everyone is going to switch to it when its done...

[Vivi OOC]

Really, now? Considering that you're the only one who keeps talking about "Dave's project" like it's some pesudo-canon re-write, I think maybe you might want to take a step back. No one, including Dave himself, has said he expects anyone to do anything with his suggestions. (In fact, I'm pretty sure he's already contradicted that particular assertion.) If you don't want to use something someone suggests, don't. It's that simple. Stop acting like people are going to try to force you to conform to some tyrannical, fascist brand of revisionist gaming.

[SkyLion]

Simmer down V! If you go back and carefully reread my above post and then yours, you will see that we are actually in agreement.

Somebody had a little too much coffee this morning?

And if you were being overly defensive towards El and not me, then nevermind, but you didn't quote or specify.

[Fox]

Originally Posted By: Vivi OOC

Stop acting like people are going to try to force you to conform to some tyrannical, fascist brand of revisionist gaming.

But... but... I already had the "Game Gestapo" t-shirts ordered and EVERYTHING! Even ordered you a babydoll one. They had this dice logo on the sleeves and are specially made so blood washes out after we finish kerbstomping all those who refuse to bow to our wishes.

*grumbles*

[Vivi OOC]

Originally Posted By: Bond

But... but... I already had the "Game Gestapo" t-shirts ordered and EVERYTHING! Even ordered you a babydoll one. They had this dice logo on the sleeves and are specially made so blood washes out after we finish kerbstomping all those who refuse to bow to our wishes.

*grumbles*

I'll take 2. <3

Originally Posted By: SkyLion

Simmer down V! If you go back and carefully reread my above post and then yours, you will see that we are actually in agreement.

Somebody had a little too much coffee this morning?

And if you were being overly defensive towards El and not me, then nevermind, but you didn't quote or specify.

1. No, we aren't in agreement, because what I get from your post is that you seem to insist on reminding us all, in your usual generous, benevolent way, that "Dave (or another convenient target) isn't the boss of me/us!"

2. Yes. Yes, clearly because I find your general, "Gee, guys, I'm just funnin' with ya!" attitude to be both grating and personally insulting, I must have had too much coffee.

3. I replied directly to you, thinking that would be specific enough. I will remember to quote you in the future!

4. For future reference, and before you lay on the crocodile tears, I don't hate you, I'm not out to get you, and I don't care if you play on the boards. I also cannot stand you, because of the way you've behaved previously, and because you seem bound to continue it even after your absence. I can, and will, be civil, but only for the sake of others. I'm just not going to play along with your little attempts at juvenile emotional manipulation, because, honestly, your history of using precisely this tactic to snipe at someone while swearing innocence is well-established.

I have no problem saying that up-front, in front of Chosen and everyone else, or discussing it elsewhere, now that I've completely (hopefully only temporarily) derailed any useful discussion of the original subject.

[SkyLion]

Wow you sure spend alot of energy not liking me. How about in the future you can either calmly ignore me or send me your scathing rants via PM. Thanks.

[Vivi OOC]

Originally Posted By: SkyLion

Wow you sure spend alot of energy not liking me. How about in the future you can either calmly ignore me or send me your scathing rants via PM. Thanks.

You think that was a scathing rant? Wow.

[SkyLion]

:Takes his own advice and ignores V from here on out:

Carry on one and all!

[Vivi OOC]

You know, Sky, if you have to post that you're doing it, it really doesn't mean much. Why bother posting it, unless you're asking for attention?

[BlueNinja]

Well, ignoring the last page of infighting ...

Psychic Shield - remove the part about "and soak" and have it simply give +2 auto-successes to resistance rolls. Also have it specify exactly what powers it protects against.

Invulnerability - remove any mention of mental powers in it. That's what Psychic Shield is for, damnit.

Mental Blast - specify that the Aggravated extra won't work with it, because good grief that's broken. Write an extra to bump it to Lethal (vice Bashing) for the people who really want to kill with their brain.

Shapeshift - specify what can be taken when you roll the dice. IMX, limiting it to physical-type stuff works well.

Taint - Make it slightly easier to get temporary taint; any power botch, every power max, something. Then make the time to get rid of temp taint shorter, but require a Willpower roll to do it. I mean, if you can out-think the entire continent of Australia do you really want to limit yourself to being Joe Normal?

Strengths and Weaknesses - either cut it entirely, or drastically re-write it after significant play-testing. Gah, ick, and bleh.

Gadgets - the gadget building rules in the APG suck. Re-write them for something closer to Adventure! super-science rules.

Factions - do away with the Aberrant faction, since they turn out to be utterly lame, or nerf Proteus somewhat. Most of the groups in the game seem to be overly heavy on the jackbooted thugs (Proteus, Directive, Teragen's Harvesters and NV)

I could probably think of more if I was at home with my books. Not going to touch Merits and Flaws right now; there are some I think are worthless and annoying (Amnesia) but generally I treat them as an aid to fleshing out a character.

[Vivi OOC]

Originally Posted By: BlueNinja

Well, ignoring the last page of infighting ...

Yeah, er... Sorry about that.

As far as Psychic Shield and Invuln. go, I didn't think they were the same/redundant. I'll double check when I've got a book handy, though.

[Dave ST]

Originally Posted By: BlueNinja

Psychic Shield - remove the part about "and soak" and have it simply give +2 auto-successes to resistance rolls. Also have it specify exactly what powers it protects against.

Since some powers will be tagged as [Mental] or [Mind-Affecting] the power will retain it's ability to bestow a soak rating to defend a mind from damaging attacks. One thing that I've looked at is 'auto-successes' and pretty much done away with them at this stage in the project.

At this point any 'auto-success' at all will be a direct result of your quantum score, not anything a power provides. High Quantum PCs will pack a herder punch even with lower ranked traits just by virtue of being more adept at manipulating quantum. Instead most powers will now provide bonus dice to resistance tests that willadd to the PCs relevant pool (Willpower, Resistance, etc...).

So while it was once possible to whip out a 15+ Dice Pool with Mega-Atts against a Piddly Willpower of three the defender, with his Willpower of 3, might 15+ dice worth of defense thanks to mental defenses.

Psychic Shield will be very similar to Armor, save that it's used to armor the mind, not the body.

Quote:

Invulnerability - remove any mention of mental powers in it. That's what Psychic Shield is for, damnit.

One could argue to remove Physical Invul since that's what Armor is for.

Mental Invulnerability will be a broad category with all the various types of mental attacks (emotional, mind-affecting, etc) being general categories (like piercing, slashing, etc for physical invul).

At this point Invulnerability will directly add to soak, but also grant a 'hardness' rating. If the power of the attack does not exceed the character's hardness the attack simply fails outright. That's what it's planned at right now, I haven't compared it to some of the other math, so we'll see I suppose.

Quote:

Mental Blast - specify that the Aggravated extra won't work with it, because good grief that's broken. Write an extra to bump it to Lethal (vice Bashing) for the people who really want to kill with their brain.

There will be an extra for bumping this to Lethal, but the Agg will remain as well. With all the new mental defense options, it should be okay.

Quote:

Shapeshift - specify what can be taken when you roll the dice. IMX, limiting it to physical-type stuff works well.

This power has been a complete pain in my ass. As it is at the moment it's a suite power. Every time you gain a dot in the power you may choose a new category to shift into. Humanoids, Animals, Objects/Minerals, Plants, etc... By mixing your dots you may change into anything you like. So if you have 'Animals' and 'Minerals' you could mix them together to change into a steel wolf. By mixing 'Humanoids' and 'Plants' you could shift yourself into a plant person; without vital organs anymore you convert all lethal damage to bashing, etc...

Or you may simply choose a single form your character may shift into. Since you do not need the suite abilities you gain extra successes equal to your quantum score per dot you posses in the power. So if you chose a 'Werewolf' as your form and had Shapeshift of 4 and a Quantum of 5 you'd automatically get 20 successes right out of the gate to assign to it's stats before you even rolled the dice, but you can't shapeshift into anything other than a werewolf (shifting into a wolf as well would require you to buy the power a second time, adding Shapeshift to Shapeshift forms is not permitted)

Quote:

Taint - Make it slightly easier to get temporary taint; any power botch, every power max, something. Then make the time to get rid of temp taint shorter, but require a Willpower roll to do it. I mean, if you can out-think the entire continent of Australia do you really want to limit yourself to being Joe Normal?

Every time you fail to activate a power nets you an automatic temporary taint. Calling on a Power Maxx is 1 free temporary taint every time you call on it. Stressing the node that much is a dangerous thing, this should keep a few Terats in line.

Temp taint bleeds away, but can now be bought away with XP.

Quote:

Strengths and Weaknesses - either cut it entirely, or drastically re-write it after significant play-testing. Gah, ick, and bleh.

Pretty much getting an overhaul, the Strength/Weaknesses will be more geared to the individual power themselves, the whole "Make this power a touch power and you can have 3 free extras and it'll cost no quantum!" Is pretty much out, since any fool is going to just crank Dex + Mega-Dex and never miss with their attacks anyway.

Quote:

Gadgets - the gadget building rules in the APG suck. Re-write them for something closer to Adventure! super-science rules.

Not really in development, but I did do something like this for Fox awhile back... wonder if he still has the PM I sent him...

Quote:

Factions - do away with the Aberrant faction, since they turn out to be utterly lame, or nerf Proteus somewhat. Most of the groups in the game seem to be overly heavy on the jackbooted thugs (Proteus, Directive, Teragen's Harvesters and NV)

White Wolf meta plot sucks ass, no tmuch I can do about that unless I re-write Trinity too...
<.<

>.>

Hmm...

Thanks for the feedback though, I do appreciate it. I'm taking everyone's thought's and opinions into consideration, and I don't mind negative feedback, but keep in mind that I'm just one guy and I can't please everyone.

IF I ever get this monster of a project completed, rest assured it wil not be mine alone, this will be the effort and ideas of everyone here. I'm not in it for the fame, I just wanna have a good time.

[SkyLion]

BN: Who's fighting?

The difference betwen psychic shield (effectively psychic armor) and Invulnerabilty is that Invulnerabilty negates aggravated damage and armor piercing. Of course with your proposal to get rid of agg mental blasts (a good idea btw) fixes that.

Shapeshift list (arguably of course):

Armor

Growth

Shrink

Density Increase (1 level per sux assigned)

Flight (with wings)

claws

biolumination

and bodymod

Some STs (namely you BN!) have also allowed it to be used for invisibility with certain concepts.

Re: Aberrants:

They only suck because the devlopers changed hands and the new ones were all ZOMG DIVIS and shafted the original metaplot and Aberrant faction in favor of the Teragen, leading us to get such gems as Chrysalis (which needs fixing), and a 5 page pamphlet on the very faction the friggin game was named for...

MOVING ON!

Dave: Centimane and I were talking and we realized that the Shrink power is both badly writen as well as broken. That and the super shrinking power doesn't do anything useful. Shrink should work the same way mechanically as Growth with one level of effect per dot rather than Quantum+dots.

After talking with him here is my proposed fix:

Shrinking:

Each level of Shrink halves the characters height and reduces mass/weight by a factor of 8. This makes the character both harder to see and harder to hit in combat. Each dot therefore provides +1 die to Stealth rolls and a +1 difficulty to hit the character in combat. However this can be overcome by Mega Dextrous Novas and Highly Perceptive Ones. Against novas with Mega Perception the extra stealth dice do not apply. In combat, characters with Mega Dexterity and/or Mega Perception *who have access to visible light attuner* may ignore one +1 difficulty of the shrunken character per dot in the relevant mega attribute.

Shrunken characters also lose 1 dot of Strength as well as brawl or martial arts per dot in shrinking to a minimum of Str 0, and physically based movement is also halved per dot. Because quantum powers are based on the novas quantum power, they no longer lose dots. This loss of physical Strength and combat ability is still negated by purchasing the full power extra.

Furthermore, after the first dot of shrinking, normal sized character are effectively at 2 levels of growth in comparison and so the tiny character gets +1 die to perceive and attack them as if they had two levels of growth. This is cumulative with other characters using the growth power who start giving the tiny character additional dice to perceive and hit them from the first level of growth.

Example: Tom Thumb has 5 dots of Shrinking. At normal size he is 6 foot and weighs 200 pounds. Shrunken to his tiniest size he is 2 1/4 inches tall and weighs a hundreth of an ounce. Against normal opponents they take a +5 difficulty penalty to hit him. Tom Thumb does no damage whatsoever in close quarters combat but he can use his quantum sting ability to harry them until he is out of juice.

Against Joe Quick however who has Mega Dex 3, Mega Perception 2 and visible light attuner, Tom Thumbs tiny form is easy to spot and hit and Joe Quick receives no difficulty penalty to attack him. Tom does however gain +4 dice to perceive and attack Joe.

Now Gigantor comes along with Growth 1, Mega Dex 2 and Mega Perception 1 but with visible light attuner. Gigantor is only at +2 Difficulty to attack Tom but Tom gains 5 dice to perceive and attack Gigantor (who has the equivalent of 6 levels of growth in comparison to Tom).

EXTRA: Super Shrinking.

Each dot of Shrinking after the first reduces the characters size by a factor of 10 and mass/weight by a factor of 40. The benefits and penalties of Shrinking are doubled after the first dot, but without Quantum 6 and above the shrunken character may not purchase both super shrinking AND the full power extra.

The last bit I put in because there *should* be a benefit to buying super shrinking but it needs to balanced out and not broken.

Open to ideas suggestions and modifications and maybe someone could word it more elegantly than myself.