Aberrant: 200X - An Issue

[Nova OOC]

"Simply once had an idea" is an epic understatement, but since you weren't there at the time it would not be fair for me to expect you to understand what it was like.

No disclaimer is necessary, but thank you for the kind gesture. I've learned to recognize a personal attack when I see one. (Edit: and in case it's unclear, I don't think your post is one.)

[Dawn OOC]

I want to say that I didn't intend to start a mutiny. I can't, as a mutiny is overturning an old system, whatever that system is. And I was definitely trying to overturn an abandoned system and give it new leadership. I wasn't interested in the new mods making many changes to the 200x Bible. I just wanted to see things back on the road again with the forum that has a great version of my favorite character (I'm all sentimental, you know...).

As an amusing (I hope) aside, the night after I posted that thread, I had a dream that an angry Nova came to my house. And since I will seem to have a death wish, I am going to do it again. I will make every effort to be frank and clear, while managing to avoid personal attacks. Indeed my first such statement is: this is not personal.

I have the following concerns with Nova remaining moderator.

• leaving again - Nova has addressed this.
• feelings that leaving has caused - I don't see that Nova's addressed this. Perhaps she has, but if so, it's been to dismiss those feelings in favor of her own feeling of ownership over 200x.
• loss of playership due to issues with the moderation - not addressed. This may not be an issue, and I don't know if it will be. But I have observed that forums that have a lot of OOC bickering have seen a loss of participation in that forum, at least for a time. I think of it as leaving for emotionally non-polluted areas.

I'd like to see the last two issues addressed by you, Nova. Because I'm putting everything out there, I'm not sure whether Chosen would support forcibly removing a moderator. This talk about getting new mods regardless of what Nova says may all be academic, and will remain so until Chosen responds. But I'm asking Nova to stop and put herself in the players' shoes. Imagine that the moderator who'd abandoned and returned and abandoned and returned was Chosen, or myself, or anyone else on the board. How would you feel about them doing the exact thing you're doing? I don't expect you to answer; that kind of questioning is best done privately.

And my closing remarks to Nova: all I ask is that you remember that we are a group of writers, put together to steer ourselves on the stories we want. That is the guiding principle behind 200x. The mods are important to that process. My personal opinion is that if the majority of the board no longer wants Nova or anyone to moderate, they should get to make that call. Please listen to the voices of your writers, for they are speaking to you.

To everyone else: Nova is a mod until she steps down or is removed. I urge you to present constructive criticisms that will forward this discussion to a positive resolution. That's what we need, more than anything else: resolution so that the fun can start again.

Just because my personal lifestyle choices demand that I end on a positive note after all of this, I'll say the following: I like you, Nova. We have stylistic differences, and you've annoyed me in the past, but you're a great writer (I remember some hints you dropped about 200x Mithril and I'm very interested in seeing her!). I'm glad you're returning to the boards.

[Nova OOC]

I'd like to apologize in advance for breaking this reply into many quotes, but for once that actually seems to be the appropriate way to handle it. Dawn closed on a compliment. Thank you. I'd like to open with one: Given the precipitous nature of my return, and my heavy-handed demeanor so far today, it speaks volumes for your maturity and grace that you've taken the time to post as thoughtfully as you have, and it flatters me that you hold me in high enough regard to do so, instead of giving me the thrashing which some would say I richly deserve.

I really think you should--time permitting--join me on the mod staff for 200X. Please consider it. Pretty please with sugar on top.

Originally Posted By: Dawn, OOC

I wasn't interested in the new mods making many changes to the 200x Bible. I just wanted to see things back on the road again with the forum that has a great version of my favorite character (I'm all sentimental, you know...).

I agree with you absolutely. My aim is not to incite a great change, but rather to find one or two (contingent on Seph's response or non-response in the next two weeks) thoughtful moderators who have the desire and the attachment to this forum to carry on its original ideal, and to ensure that the shameful state of disarray--which is my fault--is not repeated. You all deserve better than what you've been given, and I'm sorry.

Quote:

I have the following concerns with Nova remaining moderator.

• leaving again - Nova has addressed this.
• feelings that leaving has caused - I don't see that Nova's addressed this. Perhaps she has, but if so, it's been to dismiss those feelings in favor of her own feeling of ownership over 200x.
• loss of playership due to issues with the moderation - not addressed. This may not be an issue, and I don't know if it will be. But I have observed that forums that have a lot of OOC bickering have seen a loss of participation in that forum, at least for a time. I think of it as leaving for emotionally non-polluted areas.

I'd like to see the last two issues addressed by you, Nova.

I'm glad you asked, since this is something that weighs on more minds than yours and mine.

First off, I am sorry that I left abruptly and without ensuring a chain of succession. When I went, I thought it was only for a day, then only for a day or two, then only for a week, and so on. This is something that everyone has experienced at some point in their life, when the manner of your parting with someone is not as you had hoped. As the days away from each other become weeks and months, a kind of awkward guilt fills one's thoughts. It becomes harder and harder to bridge the gulf back to your friend, because of the shame that one feels in remaining away for so long. This shame and guilt looms larger--falsely so--than the joy that you would feel upon being reunited. It's why it's so hard to call an old friend after being apart for a long time, and it's why I stayed away for too long. We're all wired this way in our brains, and it's terrible. It's doubly terrible for me, because I know about this mechanism, and I know that it should be easy to overcome it once it is recognized, yet it got the better of me anyway. That's simply embarassing. I like to think that I'm a rationalist, a scientist, and that I am in control of my own mind, and yet I fell prey to this destructive guilt.

I am sorry.

Your second question is one that can only be answered with the help of clairvoyance. Will players leave if I am here? I don't know. Will players leave contingent on who the new moderators are? I don't know. What I do know is that the moderation staff will all be trusted members of the 200X community, not outsiders. If you trust each other--and the continued survival of the forum despite the absence of leadership speaks volumes for that trust--then I think that this concern will evaporate. (As an aside, I prefer to think that I am trusted. That self-image has been bruised a bit today, but I stand fast by it. I hope to show those who doubt me that I am sincere by my actions.)

Quote:

And my closing remarks to Nova: all I ask is that you remember that we are a group of writers, put together to steer ourselves on the stories we want. That is the guiding principle behind 200x. The mods are important to that process. My personal opinion is that if the majority of the board no longer wants Nova or anyone to moderate, they should get to make that call. Please listen to the voices of your writers, for they are speaking to you.

I've never stopped listening. My original proposal for 200X and the official Bible are vastly different, and it's all because of the input of the participants. Most of the stress that I suffered during the gestation of 200X was brought on by listening to as many different voices as I could, all at the same time, but it's worked out well for all concerned. In addition, a mechanism for updating the 200X Bible is contained in it. Anarchy worked very well when the population was smaller, but I wonder how it will work if activity here suddenly increases. I'm skeptical, but I confess to being biased towards authoritarianism in this regard.

Quote:

That's what we need, more than anything else: resolution so that the fun can start again.

I agree completely.

Quote:

(I remember some hints you dropped about 200x Mithril and I'm very interested in seeing her!). I'm glad you're returning to the boards.

If we can keep the opprobrium to a minimum, I can spend more time writing and less time accounting for my failures. If we can all work together to do this, I promise we'll meet Mithril 200X very soon. She's a character in the story that is percolating in my head.

[The Fine Balance]

Originally Posted By: Nova OOC

My aim is not to incite a great change, but rather to find one or two (contingent on Seph's response or non-response in the next two weeks) thoughtful moderators who have the desire and the attachment to this forum to carry on its original ideal, and to ensure that the shameful state of disarray--which is my fault--is not repeated. You all deserve better than what you've been given, and I'm sorry.

OK, to clarify. I do trust you, mostly. I think enough of you that if you stress that you're back For Really Real This Time, even after disappearing once, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. But here's the problem.

200X is not your baby anymore.

You came back and said you were back, For Really Real. Then you left. Twice now the forum has had to fend for itself, and it's not because of you that it's survived this long. You may've put some work into the Bible; I do not dispute that. But your work cannot, and does not, equal the work of those people who continued to write and encourage others to write in your absence.

I think maybe you thought you could make up for this by swooping in and giving rulings on this or that issue, but really, Expounding the Law just made you seem like a distant tyrant, unconnected to and unconcerned with the fate of the board. This should've been obvious, given the uproar that marked 200X's genesis: acting in an uncompromising manner is going to encourage uncompromising defiance, which you would be tempted to squash under your iron gauntlet, and on and on ad nauseum.

Originally Posted By: Nova OOC

First off, I am sorry that I left abruptly and without ensuring a chain of succession...I like to think that I'm a rationalist, a scientist, and that I am in control of my own mind, and yet I fell prey to this destructive guilt.

I am sorry.

I understand this completely, and I don't hold it against you in the sense of holding a grudge. But it does leave me with some doubts...

Originally Posted By: Nova OOC

Your second question is one that can only be answered with the help of clairvoyance... I'm skeptical, but I confess to being biased towards authoritarianism in this regard.

Whereas I tend to favor direct democracy.

But really, I don't think the problem with authoritarianism was so much that you were outright tyrannical or petty or anything like that. You just didn't practice good 'public relations'; when you got tired of the discussion or thought it was becoming too heated you told people how things were going to be instead of offering input, presenting your reasoning, and seeing where opinion swayed before making your decision known.

In short, you treated 200X like a private roleplaying game with you as Storyteller instead of an open-world forum for writing fiction. In a tabletop RPG I do not argue with the storyteller, but your role is not the same, and you didn't really clarify how you were going to behave, which got some people confused and angry when you began Expounding the Law.

Originally Posted By: Nova OOC

If we can keep the opprobrium to a minimum, I can spend more time writing and less time accounting for my failures. If we can all work together to do this, I promise we'll meet Mithril 200X very soon. She's a character in the story that is percolating in my head.

As a totally random and unrelated side note, I hope Seph comes back soon; we need Libertyne.

(Also, props for using 'opprobrium' in sentence)

[z017]

Ditto what Alex said.

[Mr Fox]

For the record. I didn't feel that I was doing anything useful at all for this game and so resigned my post last fall. I wish I had realized you folks were jonesing so bad for a mod, if I had I would have come out of retirement and worked for you. As it is now, I'm flattered that Nova did ask me to come back, but I have all I can handle with the other games I'm involved with. Besides several good names have been put forward as potential mods and I'm sure any of them will do a great job; better than I ever did in my time as mod here.

[Eingar]

Seconding (Thirding, even) what Alex has said.

And I would propose Nova as one of the new Mods, as previously stated. She did a good job while she was here from what I can see.

Also seconding what Fox has said.

[Nova OOC]

I'm never going to pretend that I'm good at public relations. The best I can offer is to do my level best and then try to smooth over the feathers that I inevitably ruffle. This isn't the same thing as being a Lovable Bastard or a Grouch With a Heart of Gold, but more like someone who is Clueless About People.

Because I am. XD

[Kazuo]

I'm hoping that all the anger and drama has played itself out, and people have successfully vented their feelings at this point.

But even if some of us haven't, I'd like to ask that we (meaning all of us) try and stick to the issue at hand, and that we all work very hard to only post things that are constructive, and that will help us move forward, rather than causing the discussion to stall, or worse yet, move backwards. The last several posts have all been pretty decent examples (and some of them have been very good examples) of constructive posts, so if any of you are in doubt about how to go about this, I suggest using them as guidelines.

So: The Issue at Hand!

We want Mods running this place again, right? Awesome! Let's discuss that. Dawn suggested that we "talk amongst ourselves" until the 21st of this month, and then begin a two week process of electing new Mods. Nova suggested that we wait two weeks (three more days) to see if the rest of the former Mods wanted their jobs back, and then simply start installing Mods.

At this point we've established that Nova does want her old job back, Fox does not, and no one's really heard from Seph for a long time. Seeing as how the difference between the 21st and "two weeks from [yesterday]" is all of three days, I think we can safely move past this particular point of contention. If I'm wrong, and for some reason folks aren't ready to move past this issue, then might I suggest the very reasonable compromise of starting things on the 22nd?

We've also established by this point that the vast majority of the people who've been active here to one degree or another during the past six months would like the opportunity to vote in, or at least put their stamp of approval on, some new Mods. Whether or not these new Mods are the same people as the old Mods doesn't matter half as much as the desire to be given a choice in the matter. From what I can tell, Nova, despite her early mistake of behaving in a somewhat heavy-handed manner, has come to realize and accept this fact, and - even more importantly - has apologized to all of us for any offense she might have caused, and is in no way trying to stand in the way of this process any longer. If I'm mistaken in this assumption, please don't hesitate to correct me, Nova.

So it looks like we're all in agreement on at least one thing (finding ourselves some people to Moderate this place), and as amazing as this coincidence might seem, this thing that we all agree on happens to be the very reason for which this thread was started! That being the case, let's get to it!

Now, as it stands, the nominees (that I'm aware of) are as follows:

Nova, OOC: incumbent Mod, and creator of this very forum, who desires to serve another term. Her demonstrated ability to put her foot down and say 'no!' to some of the more ridiculous ideas that have been put forward by prospective players on this site make her a strong candidate.

Seph, OOC: no one's heard from him for a while now (aside from his post up in Private Topics), but he was a former Mod, and I'm not aware of anyone having any strong criticisms of his work as a Mod while he was still here. If he were to return (and was planning on sticking around), I think he'd be a good candidate.

Dawn, OOC: nominated by Nova herself, and let's face it, a really good choice. The fact that she's one of the most active people in almost every single one of the games/forums on this site means that it'll be difficult for her to accept this position. But again, she'd be a good choice.

Dave, ST: a successful Mod over in the WoD:A forum, and a guy who definitely knows the Aberrant rules quite well, and has shown a willingness to tackle strange, weird, and outright ridiculous player-requests/ideas (even when it wasn't strictly his responsibility to do so ).

Kazuo (me): I haven't been as active in recent months as some of the folks on this list, but I still love this forum and want to see it continue forward with definite oversight. I have STed games in the past, I've helped a lot "behind the scenes" over in MCoH, and I most certainly understand the rules in Aberrant, and of this forum.

Nathan: I'm nominating him. The guy doesn't say much, but what he does say tends to make a lot of sense. I don't know if he's interested in or able to accept the position, but I'm putting his name out there anyway.

Ok, so there's six people listed (in bold type, no less) for your consideration. Discuss.

[Nova OOC]

Before all of this blew up, I privately asked Nathan to be a mod. I'm certain he's got what it takes to do the job.

[z017]

Nova, is this true?

Originally Posted By: Kazuo

From what I can tell, Nova, despite her early mistake of behaving in a somewhat heavy-handed manner, has come to realize and accept this fact, and - even more importantly - has apologized to all of us for any offense she might have caused, and is in no way trying to stand in the way of this process any longer.

Are you willing to be a nominee for moderator and step aside if you are not chosen by the writers of 200X (to include anyone that had a character as of Feb 4th, per Dawn's original post) as one of the three new mods?

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: Shae

Nova, is this true?

Originally Posted By: Kazuo

From what I can tell, Nova, despite her early mistake of behaving in a somewhat heavy-handed manner, has come to realize and accept this fact, and - even more importantly - has apologized to all of us for any offense she might have caused, and is in no way trying to stand in the way of this process any longer.

Are you willing to be a nominee for moderator and step aside if you are not chosen by the writers of 200X (to include anyone that had a character as of Feb 4th, per Dawn's original post) as one of the three new mods?

Bumping this up. Flicker, we really need you to weigh in on this one way or another, because if you're not on board, we need to know. Thank you.

[Nova OOC]

Originally Posted By: Dawn, OOC

Originally Posted By: Shae

Are you willing to be a nominee for moderator and step aside if you are not chosen by the writers of 200X (to include anyone that had a character as of Feb 4th, per Dawn's original post) as one of the three new mods?

Bumping this up. Flicker, we really need you to weigh in on this one way or another, because if you're not on board, we need to know. Thank you.

It's a silly question to ask, when you think about it. My stated position is that we need one or two new moderators (again, contingent on Seph's return or non-return), in addition to myself. I see no reason to remove myself from my position.

There are, at most, a dozen active posters right now, if that. Do we really want to open the can of worms that an election would entail? We'd have a thread in which we argue over the best way to tally the votes (run-off, simple majority, etc.), we'd have a thread in which we argue over the legitimacy of the results, we'd have a thread in which we argue over secret versus public ballots, and we'd have a thread in which we argue over whether this mechanism is even allowed per the 200X Bible, and then we'd have a thread where we argue over the text of the amendment to the 200X Bible which would allow the election to occur in the first place.

None of this is conducive to the intent of the forum: fun, and writing. Let's keep seeing shows of hands for who is interested in the position. Right now I favor Dawn and Nathan. I would be honored to be an equal third with you two.

Note that I said equal. I will not be the first among three. When we had all three moderators, I was overridden in secret votes two times. Twice I went to Seph and Mr. Fox with an idea, and twice the vote was 2-1 against me, and twice I accepted their counsel. If Nathan and Carver have an idea that I don't like, guess what: Nathan and Carver's idea gets implemented.

When I created this forum, and let's not forget that it was my idea in the first place and my task to shepherd that idea into reality, I bent over backwards to include as many ideas and voices as possible. When 200X was ready to launch, I took off my "sole creator" hat and put on my "one of three moderators" hat. After the weeks of stress, lost sleep, flamewars, and setting the rest of my life aside to get this thing up and running, I put my trust in others. I have already relinquished 2/3 of my authority and put my trust in the other writers here and the system I have created. I think it's over-reaching to ask me to let go of the remaining 1/3.

I really do not want this to turn into a huge flamefest or to break down into point-by-point quotewars. I laid all of this out so you'd know where I stand. Can we please get back to the writing now? When I check in from my PC at work, I'd like to be able to spend more time writing my story in progress and less time dealing with this issue.

[z017]

It is not a silly question. At all. Your attitude towards the posters in this thread, their concerns as listed here, and even their attempts to empathize with you has been nothing short of condescending and offensive.

And we're supposed to trust you?

Beyond the attitude you've shown, you've also shown a willingness to just walk away from the board. Where's your accountability?

Trust is earned and lost through action. So far, you've walked away from the board twice and called us silly for wanting to have a say in who is given moderator rights in a forum kept going by the will of the writers. Not the mods. Not you.

You started the board. Kudos to you. I do actually know what it's like, despite your opinion on the matter. I spent weeks working on MCoH pretty much around the clock and pulling my hair out over all the details needed to make it work. I also handed over power to others as the process went along, putting my trust in their decisions. And when I decided that I didn't wasn't going to make the necessary life changes to continue being a mod there, I made arrangements to ensure that the writers of the forum were well taken care of. You didn't.

As for the complications of running an election for the moderator positions, this thread is rather ample evidence of the willingness of the writers here to do so. We do want to write and have fun, Nova. Your attitude since returning has been a major block to that.

You bring up being voted against in secret ballots as proof of your willingness to listen to others. This thread is the writers on the forum doing the same exact thing. We want elections for three new mods, not a dictatorial declaration from you and then you selecting new mods. Stand up as one of the nominations and let the writers have their say.

[Nova OOC]

Originally Posted By: Dawn, OOC

My intention is not to cause an insurrection, but to try to regain moderation of this forum in the case that we need it. At this point, there is no one who can provide moderator functions for us, in the case that there is an OOC fight or any forum maintanance.

Problem solved. I'm here. I'd like to add Carver and Nathan to the roster, in case I go crazy and wander off again. It really is that simple. If this is not a coup or insurrection, then it really is over now. If it's not over, then someone is being less than up-front about their intent.

Right?

Everything else is just internet forum drama llama nonsense. Let's go write some stories now.

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: Nova OOC

Problem solved. I'm here. I'd like to add Carver and Nathan to the roster, in case I go crazy and wander off again. It really is that simple. If this is not a coup or insurrection, then it really is over now. If it's not over, then someone is being less than up-front about their intent.

I'm sorry, Nova, but I couldn't accept this in good faith. I'd accept it if I'd been voted in, but I'll not take it without knowing that the board wishes me to have it.

As for why we should be holding voting, I think you said it best:

Originally Posted By: Nova_OOC

the existence of moderators must not preclude discussion among the group. A moderator serves the writers, and is there to ensure that the largest number of people possible are enjoying the site. It must always be that way. A moderator who does it the other way around is a tyrant.

That's from the 200x Bible. And I believe it, with my whole heart. Forcing moderation on the writers isn't serving them.

[Mr Fox]

I think the problem here is that this forum is listed as an open board, and not listed under the ST run games. As such it really doesn't belong to a single person no matter if it was their idea to begin with.

Nova, I don't dispute what you did, and I was absolutely honored to serve with you as mod. I also give you all recognition for what you did to get this board going, you did put in massive effort.

Where I have to question your current stand however, is that you have been gone with the game abandoned for months and now After a motion was put forth to elect new mods, you suddenly come back and want to remain as one of the mods as though it is your right. I would welcome you back as a mod and will likely vote for you, but I don't think you have the right to just assume your old position over the objections of the players just because of your past work. Several players in this small group have stated categorically that they will not accept your leadership unless you are reelected.

I think at this point you need to accept that or risk losing the players that remain and having this board fold.

[Nova OOC]

Guess what? My horrible awful tyrannial dictate to you writers is:

GO WRITE AND HAVE FUN.

What an ogre. Ugh ugh. I'm awful. I'm sick of this bickering. Carver, you want the mandate of the masses? I think you have it already. Take the job.

[z017]

I am posting this and will be contacting Chosen to ascertain if removing Nova can be done. Do others want to try that and continue posting here, have another board set up for the characters/fics here, let Nova continue on as moderator, or do something else I haven't posted here?

[Nova OOC] 1:48 pm: Seriously, why is this even an issue? You wanted someone to moderate in case of disaster. You got it. Problem solved.

[] 1:48 pm: So it ok for me to post?

[Malachite] 1:48 pm: We want a say, Nova.

[Nova OOC] 1:48 pm: It's not like the site has even NEEDED moderation for the past 5 months. This is a non issue.

[Joani] 1:48 pm: not just yet please

[Malachite] 1:48 pm: That obviously isn't true, since so many people have an issue with what you are trying to do.

[Nova OOC] 1:49 pm: You had your way all along. You think I plan some crazy shit just because I'm back Give me a little credit. I love you people, even when you're doing your best to go all Oedipus on me.

[Malachite] 1:49 pm: Nova, you're being rude. Incredibly.

[Malachite] 1:49 pm: Your actions are showing that you don't care about what we want or think.

[Malachite] 1:50 pm: Please stop being condescending. It makes it really hard to be polite and carry on a coversation instead of an argument.

[Nova OOC] 1:50 pm: No, you're being rude. You're pushing an unfair characterization onto me and forcing me to defend what is mine by bloody right of creation and possession, and frankly it's insulting to have to take this from a latecomer to the scene.

[Malachite] 1:50 pm: NO IT ISN"T YOURS>

[Nova OOC] 1:51 pm: You don't know me very well, as is obvious by the way you carry on. If you knew me, you wouldn't say any of this.

[Malachite] 1:51 pm: And I had characters there from day one, thank you very much.

[Malachite] 1:51 pm: Yes, I would.

[Malachite] 1:51 pm: I"m not being unreasonable.

[Malachite] 1:51 pm: The idea was yours. The fictions and stories told since then are the property of their writers.

[Nova OOC] 1:52 pm: I'm outta here. I'm going to go to work. If you want green names so badly, go tell Chosen to remove my happy ass and install whoever you want. In fact, I dare you to.

[Nova OOC] 1:52 pm: Do it. Do it and be done with it and revel in your bloody accomplishment. Brava, chica, brava.

[Nova OOC] 1:52 pm: Gore the ox and feast on my blood.

[Nova OOC] 1:52 pm: Come on, I'm waiting. Do it.

[Malachite] 1:52 pm: Okay.

[Nova OOC]

Do it. Do your bloody deed and have it over with. Clearly it's not about the best interest of the forum, but instead is about getting rid of me at any cost.

I had no idea I was such a threat to harmony, what with my radical talk of "less fighting, more writing" and "hey, let's knock this off and have some fun."

So please have your bloody coup, and enjoy the spoils. I don't think it will be so delightful to have as you think.

[Charlotte]

If it were raining kisses, we'd be the only ones out with an umbrella.

I'm fine with Nova as moderator. I have been from the start, which is why I said what I said about a contingency clause. Again, we've never had elected mods before, nor had any NEED for elected mods before. The entire thread started with 'well, we're good now, but let's get a mod in case things aren't good later.' We have a mod. She wasn't elected, and the other two mods weren't elected. Neither were the mods for Singularity's forum, for MCoH, or for WoD:A. In case Nova doesn't stick around we will have mods who presumably will. Why is all of this suddenly an issue?

I appear to be in the minority here, obviously, and Lord knows my attempts to calm people down have never taken in the past. But I have to question what the end result of this is going to be and whether it'll be a net positive. People, of course, have a right to make their voice heard, but I think people need to think a bit about where all this is going. I know that if I saw a moderator removed from the board that she runs, I'd have to think twice before accepting the same position.

I have a bad feeling that whoever is moderator when the dust settles, he or she will be moderating a board where not a lot gets done because everyone's will to write will be vaporized. The material we put here is for free, often at great length, and can't possibly ever be sold for any kind of gain so it's written solely out of love of writing. That's an emotional state that's fragile. So many things can ruin it. I think that long-ass arguments like this that go nowhere are one of those things. Even if the end result is an elected moderator team, what good will it do when everyone's so disheartened by the whole affair they can't move themselves to write?

No, people might not be happy with the decisions of a moderator. That's regrettable. But nearly every single time I've been upset with a moderator on any forum, I've stopped posting in that forum. I understood going in that the democracy I was in was one of choice - to post there, to post elsewhere, or to not post at all. I choose to post here, even when we have the Great N!Prime Collective Brick-Shitting, which arrives with the inevitability of the tides. But there have been stretches where the heavy cloud of Why Bother has hung over my head, and it's because of stuff like this.

[Nova OOC]

I love you.

[The Fine Balance]

.

[Mr Fox]

To clarify my position:

I hope Nova doesn't take my post above as personal. I do support her staying on as a mod pending elections, and she will have my vote as one of the three mods. But here are the comments I was reading from the posters and why I believe there need to be elections:

I believe these constitute a majority of the active players, btw.

Rev:

As far as a Moderator goes, unfortunately I can not accept that.

Ein:

Nova, you are more than welcome in my book to put yourself forward as a 'New Mod' if you choose to stick around.

Shae:

Stand up for the moderator nominations if you would like to continue having authority here. If posters here still have faith in you or want to grant you another opportunity, then so be it.

Alex:

You do not have a valid claim to 200X modship in my eyes, and I want to elect three new mods.

Carver:

My personal opinion is that if the majority of the board no longer wants Nova or anyone to moderate, they should get to make that call. Please listen to the voices of your writers, for they are speaking to you.

Kazuo:

We've also established by this point that the vast majority of the people who've been active here to one degree or another during the past six months would like the opportunity to vote in, or at least put their stamp of approval on, some new Mods. Whether or not these new Mods are the same people as the old Mods doesn't matter half as much as the desire to be given a choice in the matter.

[Ashnod]

Some of you expressed a desire to hear my thoughts on this. I'm not really sure if this will mean anything or not, but for better or for worse, this is essentially how I feel. Chosen has already stepped in, so what impact this has will likely be minimal as everyone waits the direction he intends to take it. These are merely my thoughts on the matter for those who wanted my input.

****

I'm consistently surprised how many people think that a forum is a democracy. I've never been to a democratic forum, and even internet locations that had some semblance of democracy that I've frequented never had the power to vote those in power out. N!Prime gives its users an enormous amount of autonomy, up to the point of giving a sub-forum and moderation powers to almost anyone who successfully gets a new game underway. To compare this to other places I visit, on one site I participate in you can have your posting privileges suspended if you continuously DOUBLE-POST instead of editing your messages to adjust its content. The moderators there have absolutely no restraint on giving you their opinion on something, and won't hesitate to call you a moron if your opinion skews far enough away from theirs. That isn't necessarily a model to emulate, mind you, but it is a reminder that ultimately, you are there only by their good will and if don't like it, you are free to find somewhere else to play.

When 200X was formed, a few people who disagreed with the power restrictions for characters threw a major fit that their desires weren't going to be implemented, and demanded a democratic means of forcing the moderators to revise the 200X bible to accommodate them. And again, everyone needed a reminder that this isn't a democracy. The staff will listen to your concerns, and they will consider them. They may even implement them. But they are under no obligation to give you what you feel you deserve, nor are they under any obligation to submit to the will of the masses. You, of course, are free to be unhappy with this, you are free to disagree with it, and if it bothers you enough, you are free not to play there. No one is forcing you to.

A lot of people were happy for the 200X reboot of the original 2018 forum. Soon after 200X got underway, a lot of people suddenly got it in their heads that they could be the ST/GM of their own game and decided they wanted to run it. Many sub-forums suddenly sprang up, and a majority of the energy that got pushed into 200X was diverted to these other games. Participation in 200X dropped sharply as a result of this.

Some people continued playing in 200X, but as far as I can tell by the times I've come in and checked this forum, a dire need for moderator attention hasn't been present. I haven't seen desperate pleas for the moderators to step in and do something, nor do I think any of the moderators have a stack of unread PM's in their inbox. If you had an issue you wanted to be addressed and you didn't PM a mod because you didn't think they were listening, that is your own fault. Many of us, including me although I'm not a 200X mod, come back to check in and see what is happening even if we don't post anything. And some of us have our profiles set up to email us if we receive a PM.

The way I see it, the people who have continued to play in 200X are under the assumption that it is their sandbox and they should have the right to govern it now. Whether or not the moderators have been looking over your shoulder with the ban-hammer cocked, or have simply let you do what you want up until this point is really a non-issue. 200X is still under the jurisdiction of the moderators who had it before. If you want control of it, and you feel the powers that be no longer want control of it, you should ask them if they mind relinquishing control of it to you. If those mods honestly don't want the responsibility for it any longer, they will probably grant your wish. If they don't reply to you, you can of course appeal to the site-admins. However, neither of those circumstances have happened.

In this case, one of the mods is still here, even if she has been hands-off for several months. You can shout all you want about abandonment, but to the best of my knowledge, no one has tried to contact her to see if she was interested in relinquishing control prior to this point, and no one has had issues that demanded her attention that were ever brought to her attention.

If the purpose of this was to make certain that yes, the forum is moderated, this is a non-issue. There is an active moderator. This moderator is willing to pull in people to fill the other two slots, one of the candidates she selected is someone who has been voicing opposition to her, so it isn't as though she isn't willing to compromise on this. For those of you demanding that a vote determine who is a moderator, that didn't occur when 200X was formed, either. There's no precedent for voting in a moderator in 200X, and any hints that this is how it should be done are only your opinion. They aren't a right or a requirement.

If, however, the purpose of this is to simply remove the final remaining moderator to ensure that the people playing here have absolute and total control over what happens, it would be best to be honest about it. There's no "We want to have a say," here. You agreed to the 200X bible when you came here, and if you don't like it, you don't play. Period, end of story. Anything else is just an obfuscated attempt to get what you want. You can't ask a moderator to submit their position to re-vote when doing so all but guarantees their removal, then cry foul when they refuse and say because they won't submit to your will, that they are more interested in keeping power than helping the forum. It would be one thing if an entire mass of issues that needed moderation went unmoderated - at that point you could have grounds for saying something needed to change and could make a case to the site-admin.

Did anyone ask, prior to the call for new moderation, if Nova would be willing to hand over the reigns to someone else? As far I can tell, that's a no. A call was made to re-establish moderation under the assumption that Nova wouldn't be here to contradict it. When in fact she was here, and said "I'm still here and will gladly fill the two empty spots," suddenly this ceased being about re-establishing moderation, and became instead about the evil moderator who wouldn't let the people have a voice in removing her from power.

For those of you threatening to leave if your will isn't enacted, I say it's better then that you left. I personally can't stand ultimatums like this: if you're willing to make that kind of threat it says a lot about what you feel you are entitled to, especially in a situation like this where no egregious offenses have been committed. Any time a forum member threatens to leave if their will isn't enforced essentially is the same as threatening to pack up your toys and go if everyone doesn't go along with you. If you honestly can't continue playing if you don't get what you want, it's time to go.

And that's fine. If you don't want to play here, that is your choice. If enough people leave that that 200X no longer functions, then it was honestly time for the forum to be put to bed, anyway. If it means that much to have control of the forum, I'm certain you can write up a new charter, transfer your characters to a new forum with yourselves as moderators, and continue from where you left off. Those with like minds will find their way to join you, and things may continue as they were without conflict.

Is it that important to force Nova out of moderator authority? Is all of this so important that it's worth the energy that has been invested in it? I would have thought so long as everyone was having fun with their characters that the issue of moderation would be a non-issue. I'm honestly surprised at how devastatingly self-righteous this has become.

[The Fine Balance]

Originally Posted By: Ashnod

I'm consistently surprised how many people think that a forum is a democracy...That isn't necessarily a model to emulate, mind you, but it is a reminder that ultimately, you are there only by their good will and if don't like it, you are free to find somewhere else to play.

This is true. I have been in incredibly hair-pulling forums, where people were banned for stupid, trivial reasons and there was little to no oversight, no watchmen. Nprime is very laissez-faire, in a way, and that's part of why I love it. But that same laissez-faire attitude has built certain expectations among some players about how their feedback will be received and what role they will have in the forum's progression. Keep in mind, this is not just Nova's (or anyone else's) plaything: it is a place where real people write real fiction, and if 200X disappeared, they'd probably just write it in an identical place under some other form of modship. Or, you know, the stories would just die. Either's plausible.

Originally Posted By: Ashnod

When 200X was formed, a few people who disagreed with the power restrictions for characters threw a major fit that their desires weren't going to be implemented, and demanded a democratic means of forcing the moderators to revise the 200X bible to accommodate them...You, of course, are free to be unhappy with this, you are free to disagree with it, and if it bothers you enough, you are free not to play there. No one is forcing you to.

I understand this. Some people didn't, for reasons I outlined above, in another post. And really, how far is this supposed to extend? If the mod's decision goes against the will of the community, why are they making the decision? 200X is supposed to be a place to have fun. When the mod goes against the will of the 'people', they are saying, essentially, 'I know better than you what you want. I'll let you all have fun, but you're doing it my way.' Which makes no sense, if the mod is really devoted to the community. Not saying that's happened, but keeping it in mind, what purpose does moderation really serve?

Originally Posted By: Ashnod

A lot of people were happy for the 200X reboot of the original 2018 forum....Participation in 200X dropped sharply as a result of this.

You make this sound unfair in some way. Not sure if that was your intention, but people generally write where they feel like they'll have fun. If a forum wants to survive all it has to do is promise a fertile ground for storytelling. And notice which forums have survived.

Originally Posted By: Ashnod

Some people continued playing in 200X...And some of us have our profiles set up to email us if we receive a PM.

I've actually posted on certain issues needing resolution a couple times. One thread was answered, and the other hasn't been. I don't really see the need to PM a mod, though, if they can't be arsed to look over their forum once every few days, at the very least. But the more honest answer is I'm nore interested in how the idea will be received among my fellow writers than what Mod X thinks of it. If the writers really don't like the idea, they can protest by simply refusing to play with my character. More likely, I will take care of all issues beforehand.

Originally Posted By: Ashnod

The way I see it, the people who have continued to play in 200X are under the assumption that it is their sandbox and they should have the right to govern it now. Whether or not the moderators have been looking over your shoulder with the ban-hammer cocked, or have simply let you do what you want up until this point is really a non-issue. 200X is still under the jurisdiction of the moderators who had it before. If you want control of it, and you feel the powers that be no longer want control of it, you should ask them if they mind relinquishing control of it to you. If those mods honestly don't want the responsibility for it any longer, they will probably grant your wish. If they don't reply to you, you can of course appeal to the site-admins. However, neither of those circumstances have happened. (emphasis added)

I emphasised the bits I think are the points of contention here. There is a rule, which I believe only applies to closed games but still, that a mod who disappears for a certain length of time can be replaced. This rule was specifically added to keep things like this from happening. Hell, I skirted the line myself in Dead Rising, and was a rat bastard for doing so, and I finally I said screw it and handed over moderation to someone who could handle it.

The question to ask here is how long does the head of state need to go missing before he's permanently replaced? Several months is a long time; six months even longer. And Nova says the reasons she stayed away for so long were because she wanted to play CoH instead and Dave was being mean.

Really?

If that was the case, she could've handed it over any time, but she hung on, maybe intending to come back at some point later, maybe just because she couldn't bear to let go, and she didn't help anyone a damned bit. No appointing a 'regent', no explaining the situation, no heads up, no asking new ideas to be put on pause, no nothing. And then she has the enormous frigging (figurative) balls to barge back in, bitch people out cos "YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG", and the disappear again.

And you think it unreasonable that I'm a little upset?

Originally Posted By: Ashnod

In this case, one of the mods is still here, even if she has been hands-off for several months.

Hands off is a nice turn of phrase. If this was her baby, why was she so hands off? Who has the claim here? She who started things, or those who kept things going?

Originally Posted By: Ashnod

If the purpose of this was to make certain that yes, the forum is moderated, this is a non-issue. There is an active moderator. This moderator is willing to pull in people to fill the other two slots, one of the candidates she selected is someone who has been voicing opposition to her, so it isn't as though she isn't willing to compromise on this. For those of you demanding that a vote determine who is a moderator, that didn't occur when 200X was formed, either. There's no precedent for voting in a moderator in 200X, and any hints that this is how it should be done are only your opinion. They aren't a right or a requirement.

If, however, the purpose of this is to simply remove the final remaining moderator to ensure that the people playing here have absolute and total control over what happens, it would be best to be honest about it. There's no "We want to have a say," here. You agreed to the 200X bible when you came here, and if you don't like it, you don't play. Period, end of story. Anything else is just an obfuscated attempt to get what you want. You can't ask a moderator to submit their position to re-vote when doing so all but guarantees their removal, then cry foul when they refuse and say because they won't submit to your will, that they are more interested in keeping power than helping the forum. It would be one thing if an entire mass of issues that needed moderation went unmoderated - at that point you could have grounds for saying something needed to change and could make a case to the site-admin.

The purpose here is to make the writers of 200X feel like they have some say in what goes on in their community. If Nova wants to treat this like her own private fief, she is free to treat it like her own private fief, and the writers are free to leave and set up camp elsewhere. Because that is what will happen on a site as laissez-faire as nprime; if you don't like it, you go elsewhere. Eventually maybe everybody will go elsewhere. At the very least, I predict writing's going to slump off for a time because of this. People tend to stay away from the drama llama forums for a while.

If, however, Nova is more interested in writing stories in 200X than in having authority over what happens in 200X, all she has to do is agree to an election of three new moderators, and before all this bitching and moaning, I would've said she'd definitely get back in, and everybody'd be fat 'n happy like Dick 'n Cathy. Now, I don't know. She hasn't really shown a lotta empathy, you know?

Originally Posted By: Ashnod

Did anyone ask, prior to the call for new moderation, if Nova would be willing to hand over the reigns to someone else? As far I can tell, that's a no. A call was made to re-establish moderation under the assumption that Nova wouldn't be here to contradict it. When in fact she was here, and said "I'm still here and will gladly fill the two empty spots," suddenly this ceased being about re-establishing moderation, and became instead about the evil moderator who wouldn't let the people have a voice in removing her from power.

That's on us, yes. I am not sure what happened there. Perhaps others thought, as I did, that at this point the Problem of Nova was really a moot point. She wasn't going to be around; let's put someone else in her place and get back to writing. But it is kind of a dirty situation...

Originally Posted By: Ashnod

For those of you threatening to leave if your will isn't enacted, I say it's better then that you left...If you honestly can't continue playing if you don't get what you want, it's time to go.

That's a fair call, and sobering. I'm sure this was primarily addressed to me, because while I am not the only one who has said anything in chat, I was the only one to post here, and I did so in, shall we say, a fit of pique. One reason I'm not interested in mod duties. After looking at things from a fresh point of view, it was a childish thing to do. Even if I didn't mean it as an ultimatum, if my intention was to slink away if I didn't get my way, I could've much more easily and elegantly done so by quietly not posting. But I suppose I wanted to make a point about where sentiment was swinging, and the uselessness of 'playing by the numbers', how many people we'd lose doing what.

Originally Posted By: Ashnod

And that's fine. If you don't want to play here, that is your choice. If enough people leave that that 200X no longer functions, then it was honestly time for the forum to be put to bed, anyway. If it means that much to have control of the forum, I'm certain you can write up a new charter, transfer your characters to a new forum with yourselves as moderators, and continue from where you left off. Those with like minds will find their way to join you, and things may continue as they were without conflict.

Indeed.

Originally Posted By: Ashnod

Is it that important to force Nova out of moderator authority? Is all of this so important that it's worth the energy that has been invested in it? I would have thought so long as everyone was having fun with their characters that the issue of moderation would be a non-issue. I'm honestly surprised at how devastatingly self-righteous this has become.

You make a good point, but not one I can completely agree with. I've had a problem with the moderation style of Nova (and Fox too, for that matter) for a while. The mods were all very heavy-handed, back when they were, you know, around. And I gritted my teeth and put up with it, and sometimes called bullshit but mostly not. Now, I could've just declined to play, and I actually did so for a while, but one of my characters was linked to someone else's character, and I felt it would be cheap not to RP with them when they needed my character around. And gradually, from playing that character, I worked myself back in.

But that's a rabbit trail. The issue here is, how much does it really matter whether Nova stays or goes? Why are we getting so damned pissy about this? As I've said before, I think it's mainly how Nova has presented herself, how little respect she has for the 'other side', how heavy-handed she instinctively is. Shae's little chat excerpt kind of illustrates that...Is that what I want from a moderator? Not really. Do I think Nova would make a good moderator, all in all? Not good, maybe, but competent. Do I have personal problems with Nova just resuming her old position? You bet your ass. Should those matter? Well, shucks, I dunno about that.

[The Fine Balance]

Fuck this.

[Nova OOC]

Originally Posted By: Alex OOC

(T)his didn't seem to work. I have nothing for it. All my efforts turn to dross.

Fuck this.

Hey, now you know how I feel.

Cheap shot aside, if you really want to discuss this in depth, let me know.

[Mr Fox]

I can certainly see your point Ash, but I don't think I can completely agree with it. It's looking to me like mistakes were made on both sides here if what you say is true about no one attempting to contact Nova. (I became involved after Nova PM'd me about whether or not I would like my old job as mod back, so I have no idea if that is accurate or not.)

The facts as I know them (may or may not be accurate):

1) I resigned months ago as mod.

2) Nova has not been heard from on the site for months as well.

3) There is more to this than just what is posted in the forum, people talk and discuss the game in Chat also. I do know that people have been a bit worried about lack of mods and have discussed it in chat. I believe this was prior to the posting of this thread.

4) I don't know if an attempt was made or not to contact Nova prior to the posting of this thread, if not then it should have been.

5) I have been in chat a lot recently and I haven't heard any evil talk of overthrow of existing power structures. Only concern that active moderation would be nice.

Now for the opinion part. The following are my opinions and anyone is welcome to feel otherwise.

1) Even if she was watching, as a Mod you do have responsibilities to your players. That is a two way street and democracy or not, if you are absent for months and apparently abandon your players you really can't expect those players to be happy with your leadership.

I ST two games here and they are MINE with no question whatsoever of democracy. Even so, if I just walked away for months leaving my players to fend for themselves I would not be offended if they took my toy away and made it their own.

2) Ash mentioned that this is not a democracy and there should be no expectation of such. That may or may not be true. There is no precedent for this situation, but 200x is an Open Board, and not an ST owned game, and as such, I personally believe a little democracy is in order.

3) Ashnod said,

Quote:

If those mods honestly don't want the responsibility for it any longer,...

The key word in that sentence is Responsibility. As mods we have a responsibility to those we are moderating. I was not being at all active as a mod and felt that I was no meeting my responsibilities so I PM'd nova back in the fall resigning my position. Even if you throw out all concept of democracy, the Mods do have a responsibility to do their jobs, and there may not be any rule saying "If you are a mod you should post occasionally letting the players know you are still watching.", but it is common sense that you shouldn't go months without a single post. Again, I resigned because I was doing that myself and didn't feel it was fair to the players to have me as a mod who was not doing anything.

4) I can see where Nova would be upset if this all came up without a 'by your leave'. But, I can also see that the players feel they deserve a say in what happens given the prolonged absence of the games two inactive mods (I don't count myself since I resigned).

5) This may not be a democracy, but when the majority of the player base says they want something you'd better give it or risk being the mod of a dead game.

6) Ash, you might feel that allowing the game to die under the circumstances is fine if they won't accept Nova's leadership. I disagree, the players put a great deal of time into the game and wanted active leadership, they have a right to expect that out of a mod. Nova may have been watching the game this entire time and just waiting for someone to call on her to provide guidance, but the players had no way of knowing that, all they saw was that their mod, who had thrown up her hands and walked away once, had come back for a couple days months ago and apparently disappeared again, permanently. If Nova was active and watching, then it was her mistake not to let people know that. As I said above, Moderators, democracy or not, have a responsibility to those they mod for.

7) Nova has returned and wants to continue being Mod. That's fine and I have no problem with that, but given the circumstances of this situation, I don't think that should be a given, I think she should receive the approval of the player base before being allowed to do so. I suspect she will get that approval, but I think she needs to be given it before just taking up the reigns of power again.

Again, let me add, that my opinions expressed above in no way mean that I don't like Nova. I felt honored to be chosen by her to help mod this game when it started, and I enjoyed serving as mod with her.

[Vivi OOC]

Ashnod:

Personal issues aside, when Nova made a comment elsewhere, in November, that "I haven't done dick on N! Prime in months, and it's likely that I won't anymore. I'm simply tired of it," I saw that as abandonment of this forum and the others. Whatever her reasons were, that's pretty cut-and-dried. After reading that, I certainly had no inclination to contact her about the status of her participation or, indeed, anything else. Mind you, I can't speak for everyone, but that's why (in large part) I never brought it up myself.

(And, no. I was not "checking up" on her. I came across the comment on Seph's LJ.)

EDIT: If the above has changed, that's wonderful, and I sincerely hope she proves that any lingering doubts are unfounded, but I'll keep my skepticism until and unless I've a reason to do otherwise.

[SkyLion]

Originally Posted By: Alex OOC

.

Aww...you shouldn't do that Alex...that was a well spoken eloquent post. No need to have taken it down. For future referrence...

[Nova OOC]

Originally Posted By: Vivi OOC

I'll keep my skepticism until and unless I've a reason to do otherwise.

The reason to do otherwise is already here: because I said so. Do you think I'd put up with all of this if I wasn't in it for serious? No way. No way in hell. I would have put up with this kind of relentless character assassination for about fifteen minutes and then left yet again. Every time someone says "I'm skeptical of what Nova says" I hear "I think she's lying. Despite the thousands of words she's written on this topic over the past week, I think she's full of shit."

How much of that am I required to take to prove my sincerity? At some point it stops being a skeptical semi-warm welcome back and becomes a pointless beating. I think we've been past that point for quite a while now.

Despite everyone's efforts to paint me as a liar, I'm still trying. Why, I have no idea, since nobody wants to listen, but here I am anyway. I don't have the stomach for stupid pointless internet forum fighting for its own sake-- I only stoop to this because it is apparently necessary to win everyone over all over again. If that's not sincerity, I don't know what is.

[The Fine Balance]

Originally Posted By: Nova OOC

Stuff.

Disregard everything I said earlier. I don't trust you, I don't want you here, I don't want you anywhere else. But hey, it's your board. I'll just take my Hot Wheels and go elsewhere.

Happy Valentines.

[The Fine Balance]

Originally Posted By: SkyLion

Originally Posted By: Alex OOC

.

Aww...you shouldn't do that Alex...that was a well spoken eloquent post. No need to have taken it down. For future referrence...

There ya go champ.

[Nova OOC]

Suit yourself. I'm not sure why you think lots of flaming will calm the situation, but you're free to do what you want.

[Eingar]

To Nova,

In your spirit of returning magnaminity, you have:

-Taken an administrative issue and turned it into a personal one, claiming victimisation and emotional abuse while lavishing it on anyone who opposed you.

-Attacked Dave like a hysterical fishwife for simply being the first one to voice people's legitimate concerns.

-Refused to admit that a majority view has any validity. Nova, if one person says you stink, ignore them. If three people say you stink, check. If 5 people say you stink, take a fucking bath.

-Brought discord and upset to the forum game that you claim to love so very much.

-Repeatedly ignored and marginalised any attempt to reason with you.

-Mistrusted people's motives when you had no reason to other than your own paranoia.

-Allowed your own insecurity to dictate your actions and reactions.

If you had come back and said "Okay, I've been gone, lets have this vote you're all talking about. I want to stand as a Mod." there was pretty much 70-80% of the writers who would have welcomed you back as a Mod and voted accordingly.

You didn't.

You came back and treated us all like ungrateful spoiled children.

I am done here. I will be posting in the RPG Post section applying for an OW forum to which those of us who are likewise sick and tired can take the characters we have put love, care, blood, sweat and tears into.

And it will be a democracy.

[Nova OOC]

See ya.

[Mr Fox]

And so ends 200x.

A phoenix that rose in flames.

Returned to earth still burning.

[Nova OOC]

I've never been more disappointed in any group of people in my life so much as I am right now. Matt, go ahead and remove my mod privs please. I'm finished here.

I'm not coming back. Congratulations. You all win. I'm going to go have fun somewhere else.

[Matt]

After a rough journey it appears that we are back where we started with the original post in this thread by Dawn. So I'll follow Dawn's lead and keep the mod post open until this weekend.

You are free to post in this thread if you have anything you'd like to add. Unless something else comes up we'll have a vote next week to see who you all want as the mods.

The vote will be for any player of the forum to send me a PM listing the 3 people they would like to see as mods. After a week I'll respond with the 3 mod names (which will be March 2nd).