Aberrant: Quantum Identity - Proposed House rules.

[lead]

BAMMM.

[Rorx]

Here's a question for you all - High Range Hearing enhancement allows you to hear into the sub and ultra sonic ranges, but what allows you to talk or generate sounds in those ranges?

Is it covered by having The Voice Manipulation enhancement, or does it need its own Body Mod: Extended Vocal Range to do it?

[Vivi OOC]

I know I'm not in your game, but...

Core book, pg. 163. First line under Hyperenhanced Hearing.

"A nova with this enhancement can hear and transmit sounds that are too high-pitched or low-pitched to be audible to the human ear..."

[Rorx]

Thanks.

Teach me to check properly before I post, or to at least say when I don't have my books with me.

[Forge]

I have been asked by lead to submit the power I wish to have for peer review...so here it is. Over at Eon it has already run the gauntlet.

Pickpocket

Level: 2

Q-Min: 2

Dice Pool: Perception + Pickpocket

Range: Line of Sight or Special

Area: N/A

Duration: Instant

Effect: Bring perceived inanimate objects to your possession.

Multiple Actions: Yes

Description: This power allows a nova to fetch inanimate objects within his perceived visual senses to himself. To use this power, the nova must be able to see the target, either through normal human vision or some other quantum-enabled method, (e.g. EM Vision or High-End EM Scan.) The appropriate quantum points are spent and the nova rolls Perception + Pickpocket. The number of successes achieved, in addition to a number of automatic successes equal to his quantum score, must equal or exceed the weight of the object desired in kilograms. This is an 'all or nothing' power, should the nova fail to achieve the needed successes, the attempt fails. 'Part' of the object cannot be 'pocketed' with a partial success. Furthermore, the nova cannot target attuned authentic Eufiber. However, synthetic Eufiber and attuned items may be Pickpocketed, although the attempt is resisted with a Quantum + Attunement roll, the defender's successes subtracting from the would-be thief's successes.

[SkyLion]

Looks pretty cool to me but you already knew that. You found an ability that didn't have an easy answer in the RAW and you found a way to cover it in a way that is balanced and achieves the desired result. A+

[Darklighter]

Looks alright to me.

[Forge]

Originally Posted By: SkyLion

Looks pretty cool to me but you already knew that. You found an ability that didn't have an easy answer in the RAW and you found a way to cover it in a way that is balanced and achieves the desired result. A+

Thanks for the gush

[Stargaizer]

I was originally going to suggest just making it an extra for the teleport power, but after looking more closely at the benefits, drawbacks and requirements, I'd say that it's pretty good as is (which is really hard for me, because I really like to tweak stuff).

So, all n' all, good job and fine by me.

[Forge]

Originally Posted By: Stargaizer

I was originally going to suggest just making it an extra for the teleport power, but after looking more closely at the benefits, drawbacks and requirements, I'd say that it's pretty good as is (which is really hard for me, because I really like to tweak stuff).

So, all n' all, good job and fine by me.

I'll take that as a compliment too thanks

[Warren Verona]

Range should be PR + Quantum in yards. Line of Sight for a nova can be several miles. I'm also curious how this Level 2 power permits the capability to attune an object without touching it when there are Level 3 powers that don't permit that.

Teleporting others, or objects is not possible unless they're attuned. Attunement is only possible through direct contact with the person or object. This is detailed clearly in the Core.

All in all it looks just like an Exalted Charm.

[Forge]

Originally Posted By: Revenant

Range should be PR + Quantum in yards. Line of Sight for a nova can be several miles. I'm also curious how this Level 2 power permits the capability to attune an object without touching it when there are Level 3 powers that don't permit that.

Teleporting others, or objects is not possible unless they're attuned. Attunement is only possible through direct contact with the person or object. This is detailed clearly in the Core.

All in all it looks just like an Exalted Charm.

I can see it being PR + Q in meters like warp, but I like LoS better, and yes LoS can be several miles, but that doesn't mean it is, nor should you edit powers around ifs, ands or buts, IMO. As far as the attunement issue, I viewed the power as reaching out and taking the object instead of just magically popping it into posession, so depending on the ST I suppose, an extra quantum may be needed to be spent for attunement of the item. And warp allows for the teleportation of any object without the need for attunement...

As far as your reference to Exalted, I cannot remark because I haven't read Exalted, so the point is moot.

I do appreciate the feedback however.

[SkyLion]

Considering the weight limit and the QP cost per use, I don't think LOS is broken. true teleport only works on atuned objects...but this is not the teleport power. This is its own animal as it were and covers a niche not in the RAW. We do have a precedent however and it is much closer than Exalted. The Mesmerist power "Slight of Will" is basically the same effect. To get a functional LOS of many miles he would have to pay alot of points to Mega Perception and have the apprpriate enhancements activated at the time. The high cost of that ios a good enough balance IMHO.

I will say that after a reread I wouldn't allow it to take away an item if another Nova attuned it. That's the one thing I would like to see changed.

[Katalyst]

I normally don't weigh in on these type of things, but seems to me that telekinesis already covers this.

Telekinesis covers moving objects, but if you took some weaknesses(for moving objects only) then added a range strength(Line of Sight) that would do the same thing.

This would allow you to move objects without having to attune them.

[SkyLion]

Actually no it wouldn't. TK has a set movement rate. His desire is for Instantaneous pilfering of pockets. Please see Adevture!: Knacks: Psychic: Level 3: Sleight of Will for Precedent.

[Warren Verona]

It's not a bad idea to factor in 'what if's', that's how you prevent abuse.

Quote:

The number of successes achieved, in addition to a number of automatic successes equal to his quantum score, must equal or exceed the weight of the object desired in kilograms. This is an 'all or nothing' power, should the nova fail to achieve the needed successes, the attempt fails.

So let me get this straight... I get 8 successes (not hard to do with a decent Q-Score) and I can teleport anything within my line of sight that is 17.5 pounds or less.

That's not pickpocketing, it's looting.

Quote:

'Part' of the object cannot be 'pocketed' with a partial success. Furthermore, the nova cannot target attuned authentic Eufiber. However, synthetic Eufiber and attuned items may be Pickpocketed, although the attempt is resisted with a Quantum + Attunement roll, the defender's successes subtracting from the would-be thief's successes.

So... you can steal the clothes right off someone's back and there is nothing they can do about it, unless it's Eufiber and even then, statistically there is little chance that the average nova will beat you in a Perception + Pickpocket + Mega-Perception roll versus Quantum (most novas average a 2-3)+ Attunement (if the nova even posses atunement, most don't).

Sorry, that doesn't look right in the slightest. You're almost guaranteed to swipe about anything you want even Eufiber, with only the minimal amount of failure.

[William Rose]

the equivalent power in A! is countered with Willpower if you are taking something out of a person's possession ... have the contesting roll be Willpower with Attunement/Eufiber rating providing additional automatic successes

[Stargaizer]

The one change that I can see, on re-reading it, would be that I would have to agree with SL. Attuned items should be off-limits

[SkyLion]

yeah even WP is a bit low when you consider that you have to resist against someone who likely is rolling Mega Atts. No stealing of Eufiber or Attuned items please.

[Warren Verona]

A character should not be able to pick pocket handled items either. Look, boosting someone's wallet, the keys to a cell, a lady's cell phone she's let sit on the table... sure.

But if an NPC is pointing a weapon at the PC they can simply pick pocket it out of their hand and they don't even get to resist it. Hell, even TK lets you attempt to resist having something torn from your hand.

As written the power needs some work still before it's ready to see play. Of course I'm not in this game, but the people who run it should take a very close look into not letting this power be avail until it's had a lil tweaking done to it.

Just my take on it.

[Forge]

Quote:

It's not a bad idea to factor in 'what if's', that's how you prevent abuse.

You can already abuse the system all over the place.

Quote:

So let me get this straight... I get 8 successes (not hard to do with a decent Q-Score) and I can teleport anything within my line of sight that is 17.5 pounds or less.

I used kg because of the metric standard in the book and grams was too small to convey a decent power. Lbs would be probably more ideal, however what would be a decent metric conversion to use?

Quote:

the equivalent power in A! is countered with Willpower if you are taking something out of a person's possession ... have the contesting roll be Willpower with Attunement/Eufiber rating providing additional automatic successes

I can agree with that, possibly after succeeding the necessary power roll for the effect, should the item be in someone's possession, a contested Willpower roll with the defender's Attunement/Eufiber (whichever is appropriate and if it is synthetic Eufiber) being auto-sux.

Quote:

The one change that I can see, on re-reading it, would be that I would have to agree with SL. Attuned items should be off-limits

Quote:

yeah even WP is a bit low when you consider that you have to resist against someone who likely is rolling Mega Atts. No stealing of Eufiber or Attuned items please.

Real Eufiber is organic, so it is off limits anyway. The whole point of Attunement was to allow you to be able to carry things and not lose/destroy them every time you used your /own/ powers.

If you set the precedent that this power cannot affect Attuned items, then there is nothing to say that someone's Attuned gun is automatically impervious to anyone trying to gack it with q-bolt, or that someone with disintegrate cannot penetrate someone's synthetic Eufiber because it is Attuned.

All Attunement does is charge items with a nova's Q-signature, to quote the book, "Attunement costs one quantum point per scene and confers absolutely no protection against other novas' quantum powers."

You guys seem to want to turn Attunement into a defense power...

[SkyLion]

I actualy kinda liked the idea that you could grab someones pistol away from them. Its not like most novas are afraid of pistols anyway, and our party has enough obscene firepower that a psitol isn't going to make much difference.

[SkyLion]

Re Attunement: If you attuen a person or an item and you have force field it will offer protection as the field envelops them. However this wouldn't work for armor or mega Stamina based soak IIRC.

[Forge]

Originally Posted By: SkyLion

Re Attunement: If you attuen a person or an item and you have force field it will offer protection as the field envelops them. However this wouldn't work for armor or mega Stamina based soak IIRC.

Yes, but that is using FF, not straight Attunement to defend, Attunement is just allowing you to extend the FF. You are correct that Attunement does nothing in regards to Mega-Atts. The APG states that Attunement cannot extend when drastic physiological changes are necessary...or something like that, so no, Armor wouldn't work either.

[SkyLion]

I just have a play balance thing about attuned items being able to be snatched. Up to Lead though. Its the difference between being able to pickpocket a baseline and maybe not being able to steal a Novas wallet. I would hasten to add however that attunement cost is paid per scene and its a conscious thing that most novas do before activating a power. So likely you could still steal their wallet...

[Warren Verona]

Originally Posted By: SkyLion

I actualy kinda liked the idea that you could grab someones pistol away from them.

Then buy Telekinesis.

[SkyLion]

You aren't getting the point of what he wants Rev. This is about teleporting objects instantly (reverese teleport), not TK, which grabs something, maybe based on the targets strength and then moves it across space a t a set rate...

He wants to do something that isn't goverend as a power under the RAW and so is using the part in the RAW that says if you want to do something that isn't covered in the RAW, make it up with the help of your ST.

[Warren Verona]

Actually I'm well aware of what he wants to do, thank you Sky for insinuating, despite all my previous input on this topic, that I'm a complete moron with out a clue. I was telling you that if you want to grab things out of people's hands buy Telekinesis. That's kinda the reason I quoted you not him.

As written this Level 2 power can swipe anything that pretty much isn't nailed down and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. That's not a good idea for a power. I'm sure he's got a Level 3 Power named "Pry Bar" that let's him nab the nailed down shit too.

If you want to make it a true pick pocketing limit it something like unattended items that are a few pounds or less. Make it Level 1 so it's inexpensive and it'll allow you nab things like wallets, jewelry in a display case, a wedding ring off a hand, or any small object that isn't already in use.

So you might be able to swipe a gun from a holster, or a knife from a belt, but not if those objects were already in use against you. The point of pick pocketing is not to be seen.

To be clear Forge, I'm not saying this power isn't a good idea. It is, and it's a cool effect in my opinion. However, also in my opinion, it's just not geared properly for what you'd like it to do compared to how you have it written up.

[Forge]

1st revision...comments?

Pickpocket

Level: 2

Q-Min: 2

Dice Pool: Perception + Pickpocket

Range: Line of Sight or Special

Area: N/A

Duration: Instant

Effect: Bring perceived inanimate objects to your possession.

Multiple Actions: Yes

Description: This power allows a nova to fetch inanimate objects within his perceived visual senses to himself. To use this power, the nova must be able to see the target, either through normal human vision or some other quantum-enabled method, (e.g. EM Vision or High-End EM Scan.) The appropriate quantum points are spent and the nova rolls Perception + Pickpocket. The number of successes achieved, in addition to a number of automatic successes equal to his quantum score, divided by 3, must equal or exceed the weight of the object desired in kilograms. This is an 'all or nothing' power, should the nova fail to achieve the needed successes, the attempt fails. 'Part' of the object cannot be 'pocketed' with a partial success. Furthermore, the nova cannot target authentic Eufiber, (as it is organic, and therefore animate, in nature). Synthetic Eufiber or attuned items may be Pickpocketed, although the attempt is resisted with a contested Willpower roll /after/ the power roll has succeeded. The defender’s Quantum + Attunement/Eufiber, (whichever is appropriate) are added as auto-successes to the willpower roll.

Quote:

As written this Level 2 power can swipe anything that pretty much isn't nailed down and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. That's not a good idea for a power. I'm sure he's got a Level 3 Power named "Pry Bar" that let's him nab the nailed down shit too.

No, but that's a great idea!

Quote:

So you might be able to swipe a gun from a holster, or a knife from a belt, but not if those objects were already in use against you. The point of pick pocketing is not to be seen.

I think you are focusing on the name of the power too much. I could have named the power 'Swipe' or 'Summon' and the idea that you must be stealthy wouldn't apply. The name of the power isn't really important, it is that the mechanics are balanced, and that is more what I am looking for.

[SkyLion]

Quote:

As written this Level 2 power can swipe anything that pretty much isn't nailed down and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

not anything. Only things below a certain weight. As for people not being able to do a damn thing about it, how is that different than most nova powers? A mega strength nova can crush a baseline head with little defense on the baseline. A teleporter can pop in anywhere they please and no one can stop them. Etc. Mental powers can be resisted and physical attacks stopped by defenses but we are talking about inanimate objects of small size and weight.

You seem to think that idea is broken somehow Dave? Am I understanding your concern there? Could you elaborate on how or why you think such a power is too broken? Also if you want a weaker version that is level 1, why not allow this more powerful version as level 2?

Basically I do not understand what your resistance is about but am willing to hear your explanation.

Also regarding this:

Quote:

Actually I'm well aware of what he wants to do, thank you Sky for insinuating, despite all my previous input on this topic, that I'm a complete moron with out a clue. I was telling you that if you want to grab things out of people's hands buy Telekinesis. That's kinda the reason I quoted you not him.

The above actually does seem kinda moronic. My comment was that I liked the idea of being able to teleport objects away from people. I never said I wanted to do so. I was supporting Forge's idea with that post. And if I liked his idea for Sleight of Will and already said that it wasn't about telekinesis in this discussion your comment there makes absolutely no sense. Fail

[Stargaizer]

ok, 1kg=2.2lbs; that being said, if you need successes >= mass in kilograms, then for a wallet and all but the ridiculously heaviest of purses, you should only need 1 or 2 successes. As far as guns go, 1 or 2 should be adequate, and for the largest (sniper rifles), you should only need 5. That being said, I think you should drop the auto successes, in order to give this power at least a chance of failure. Even with the total divided by 3, with 3Q, you'd be able to heist any wallet and even a Beretta w/o ever failing (3Q auto success/3 = 1 auto success = you'll always be able to lift something 2.2lbs or lighter).

[Warren Verona]

*sigh* Never mind.

You know what? You guys have fun.

[Forge]

Originally Posted By: Stargaizer

ok, 1kg=2.2lbs; that being said, if you need successes >= mass in kilograms, then for a wallet and all but the ridiculously heaviest of purses, you should only need 1 or 2 successes. As far as guns go, 1 or 2 should be adequate, and for the largest (sniper rifles), you should only need 5. That being said, I think you should drop the auto successes, in order to give this power at least a chance of failure. Even with the total divided by 3, with 3Q, you'd be able to heist any wallet and even a Beretta w/o ever failing (3Q auto success/3 = 1 auto success = you'll always be able to lift something 2.2lbs or lighter).

Ok, I see your point about lack of failure, I will drop the autos.

[Forge]

Originally Posted By: Revenant

*sigh* Never mind.

You know what? You guys have fun.

One naysayer vanquished Must have succeeded on my turn undead attempt.

On another note, what does everyone think about creating a forum called, "Mud Pit" and letting Sky Lion and Revenant have at it?

[Vivi OOC]

Actually, I'd be more interested in the idea of letting the two of them deal with their own problems, instead of having people prod at them and try to provoke them into further argument.

[Forge]

Originally Posted By: Vivi OOC

Actually, I'd be more interested in the idea of letting the two of them deal with their own problems, instead of having people prod at them and try to provoke them into further argument.

While my post was made in obvious jest, I do agree that it would be better that they work their differences...however it appears that they do not need provocation...

[Forge]

Final version...hopefully. Pretendy Fun Time Games!

Swipe

Level: 2

Q-Min: 2

Dice Pool: Perception + Swipe

Range: Line of Sight or Special

Area: N/A

Duration: Instant

Effect: Bring perceived inanimate objects to your possession.

Multiple Actions: Yes

Description: This power allows a nova to fetch inanimate objects within his perceived visual senses to himself. To use this power, the nova must be able to see the target, either through normal human vision or some other quantum-enabled method, (e.g. EM Vision or High-End EM Scan). The appropriate quantum points are spent and the nova rolls Perception + Swipe. The number of successes achieved, divided by 3, must equal or exceed the weight of the object desired in kilograms (3 sux = 1/3 kg). This is an 'all or nothing' power, should the nova fail to achieve the needed successes, the attempt fails. Part of the targeted object cannot be Swiped with a partial success. Furthermore, the nova cannot target authentic Eufiber, (as it is organic, and therefore animate in nature). Synthetic Eufiber or attuned items may be Swiped, although the attempt is resisted with a Willpower roll and the defender’s Quantum + Attunement/Eufiber, whichever is appropriate, are added as auto-successes to the willpower roll.

[SkyLion]

Im fond of the term pilfer myself. Pickpocket sounds better than swipe. Swipe makes me think about using my debit card. Then again there is always Snatch...

[Forge]

Well I did like the movie, maybe it could be Snatch, any other ideas anyone?

Pickpocket got too much prejudice, so its out. Pilfer sounds too centered on stealing.

[SkyLion]

...but isn't that the whole point of the power? To steal something away from others? Summon has a nice neutral sound to it but could be infered to mean summoning people or creatures. Maybe Summon Object? Anyways your character is a street thief so I don't see why you wouldn't call it pickpocket or Pilfer or something similar...

Joke of the Day:

Q: What's the difference between a Pickpocket and a Peeping Tom?

A: A Pickpocket snatches watches...