World of Darkness: Attrition - Official OOC Thread

[Dave ST]

It appears to have, yes. Sarah and Shane left the party, Swara-Ann is stuck in Limbo since Declan hasn't added anything to the conversation and Lucien is just there doing his own thing.

Can't speak for the others, but I'd say yeah, the party has pretty much stopped.

[Vivi OOC]

Two people pulled out to do a separate (also stymied) fic, and a third is MIA. That effectively removes a significant number of potential interactions, reducing it to (maybe) two people who are currently just doing their own thing. I had planned on doing an ST post tomorrow, but if everyone would prefer to scrap the fic, please let me know. I realize that everyone has obligations to meet, and sometimes circumstances arise that are out of our control, but I am uninterested in letting this fiction languish for weeks/months on end.

[Jess OOC]

I'd say that yeah, the party is essentially over. Expected more folks to show up and do stuff, but no such luck.

[Vivi OOC]

It has been almost two weeks since I requested the input of the players. Due to lack of response to/interest in this plot fiction, I have closed "Five O'Clock Somewhere." No experience will be awarded, and no new fictions based on the events or discussions that took place there may be submitted for awards: for all practical purposes, it never happened.

Since "Siblings" is already complete, I will make an exception in this one instance and consider that particular work acceptable for an XP award. Officially, however, I cannot consider it canon, as the events leading up to it did not take place- "...Somewhere" is not canon, and it follows that offshoots of that story will not be, either. If people do not wish to post, and are not interested in plot, I see no reason to make the effort, either.

I realize that this ruling will upset those involved, but if nothing else, I consider it an opportunity to handle the situation on your own terms, rather than simply having someone else "name-drop" and spill the beans prematurely.

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted By: Vivi OOC

It has been almost two weeks since I requested the input of the players. Due to lack of response to/interest in this plot fiction, I have closed "Five O'Clock Somewhere." No experience will be awarded.

Why exactly no experience? I'm aware that this thing has petered out, but we did produce several pages of material and development. And frankly, I should point out that OTN just got back, and at least as characters go, you haven't contributed anything but one post to kick things off. The host PC who should have likely interacted more, has not done so.

I think the key point I want to make is that to call no experience just because this wasn't fully completed is not fair to the players. There's no justification.

[Vivi OOC]

I edited the original post for clarity's sake, but you ninja'ed me. Please refer to the above.

For the briefest possible summary: there was no "development" save in a completely separate fiction. The justification is that none of the characters involved did anything remotely worth XP. Their appearances were cameos, at best, and pointing fingers is a useless exercise. Everyone involved could have done more, but did not, and it failed as a result.

[Jeremy]

I'd like to ask why YOU have the authority to decide all that you have. As I have said before, you haven't contributed anything to this fiction aside from an opening post. And before I hear a 'MOD RULES' argument, OTN and Sarah were heavily involved in this, and I think they have a better right to decide whether to annul this all than you.

[Dave ST]

What would have happened? How could Vivi had gotten things moving with a post? NO ONE WAS AVAIL!

Jeremy was avail, he contributed "Hi, this is your brother."

Swara-Ann was stuck in limbo having a conversation with OTN.

Lucien was wandering around, doing his own thing.

OTN was AWOL

Sarah and Sean left the party to do their own fiction.

That leaves pretty much you Jeremy as being the only PC present and avail to accomplish anything and what has he done in the last three weeks in that fic? Nadda.

As an aside, OTN is not 'back'. He posted a shout a few days ago and there hasn't been anything since.

An ST can not effectively develop a plot if the players are not willing to participate, we should have done more and we didn't. We could have poked each other and got ourselves moving, we could have shouted, or done more. We didn't.

As an ST and a Player I think Vivi did the right thing. All we were doing at this point was wasting her time.

[Jeremy]

Lucien was not AVAIL? I saw one post of him wandering around and hanging out. And he couldn't have chatted with a PC at all during his rambling around his house? I find that hard to believe Dave. Also, how did exactly Vivi matter in this story? Over the course of the story, she has not done one thing other than create an opening post. She has not done anything to develop plot as far as I know. As far as I know, she's been AWOL from WoDA. If the point was to generate plot from what went on, I have done that already.

Regardless, I'm not going to get into an argument over this. But since you've decided that Somewhere is non-canon, my only current method of extending Jeremy into involvement with the other PCs is invalid, and frankly I can't see any other way to draw him in.

Also, as he is the only character I wanted to put effort into, then I must withdraw then from WoDA.

[Vivi OOC]

Perhaps if you had contributed a little more, given a little more effort, etc. I would actually consider your argument, but you haven't. You've been right there on the sidelines, online but not contributing.

As far as my contributions: I asked, two weeks ago, for people to respond and let me know if we should continue the fic, because I'd intended on making a post to carry on. One person replied to that in two weeks- one of the other Mods. Their assessment? It was over. I can't create a plot-driven story when no one even bothers to respond to a single OOC post asking if there's any point in doing it after so much time had passed, and I'd gotten tired of not seeing updates or attention.

Sarah and OTN were also not heavily-involved. After a brief, half-complete interaction with Swara, OTN cut out due to offline circumstances, and we still have heard nothing from him, despite a post on the shoutbox saying he was back. Sarah was involved up to the point where she and Shane split off into their own fic.

They don't have a "better right" to decide anything, and neither do you. As I said: pointing fingers is a waste of time. The plot fiction failed, and you were a part of that failure. So was I. So was Dave. So was Sarah, OTN, and anyone else involved.

You aren't getting XP for what amounts to a cameo, because it's right there in the rules. Nothing was accomplished in the fiction itself, there was no character development or "pages" of content, and to my knowledge not a single genuine interaction was completed therein.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself, and your combative tone is not helping your case in the least.

[Dave ST]

Originally Posted By: Jeremy Noctis

Lucien was not AVAIL? I saw one post of him wandering around and hanging out. And he couldn't have chatted with a PC at all during his rambling around his house? I find that hard to believe Dave.

You're absolutely right, which is why I included myself in as part of why the fiction failed. You'd have noticed that if you'd actually read what people post.

[Jeremy]

I read your posts, and I see this in there.

Originally Posted By: Dave ST

That leaves pretty much you Jeremy as being the only PC present and avail to accomplish anything and what has he done in the last three weeks in that fic? Nadda.

IF you were available, then why did you say the above?

And regardless, the non-canon status has nuked the steps I took to allow Jeremy to have future involvement with other PCs. Because of this, I can't really continue his interactions, for that matter, I don't want to in this forum at this point.

So Long LA, there were better cheeseburgers elsewhere.

[Vivi OOC]

I'm going to be as polite as I possibly can, here, given how hostile your posts have been today, and say this: if you should change your mind at some point, you are welcome to return. If not, it's unfortunate, but I would not ask any player to continue in a forum they did not enjoy, or one which incited such volatility in them. As the ST, I've already said that I was part of the failure of the fiction. However, as the ST, not as a player, my involvement is necessarily limited in any fiction I start, and it is incomprehensible that I, or any other ST/DM/GM, would be expected to force activity into a thread when those involved have shown no interest whatsoever in participating.

You're not being singled out, Jeremy, except for the unnecessarily aggressive tone of your posts. I have not forbidden future developments, or efforts for PCs to bond, or even to hold their own party if enough people are interested in doing so. I have simply stated that this particular, individual fiction does not merit an XP award because, irrespective of whether it was completed, nothing noteworthy happened and characters gained, risked, and lost nothing at all. XP awards are at the ST's discretion, and this one was mine. In my judgment, it's not worth an award, and not solid enough across the board to be considered established canon. A fiction needs to be more fully-realized in order to stand on its own. There's nothing complicated, vindictive, or discriminatory about that determination, and I'm sorry if you feel that there is, or that it's somehow unjustified.

I made a decision about a fiction I was running, and that's pretty much all there is to it.

To reiterate what I said previously, we're sorry to see you go. I would not have worked with you in such depth on Jeremy's character submission if I did not think he had the potential to be an interesting character. Let us know if you change your mind, and send all of us (the Mods) a PM. Otherwise, this is really all I have to say on the matter in this thread. If there's anything else you feel I haven't adequately clarified, drop me a PM and we'll try to get it sorted out.

Take care.

[Jeremy]

It has nothing to do with the interesting qualities of his character.

The fact is that he is not as well placed in connections or personality/racial preferences (IE- He is a changeling) to begin establishing relationships with the other PCs.

I did have some re-connections and set-ups in the thread that would be a step forward for this, including a plot hook. Now that the thread is non-canon, it's two steps back, more like three, and I don't see my being able to make up for what has been lost, or wanting to create a new char.

So really, if the effort I put into this wasn't wasted by issuing a non-canon declaration, I would be willing to have put up with the decision, and continue.

[Jess OOC]

What the hell?

Do I understand correctly that the work that players *did* do has been declared as having never happened?

You sure as hell didn't ask any of the other mods before deciding to nix this; there was no PM about it. You just up and decided on your own authority that it's nixed.

Then, when someone takes issue with it, there's no room for compromise or reconsideration; just that blanket "No" until yet another player throws up his hands and walks away from WoDA.

And you wonder why this game isn't doing well.

Joani and I worked hard on our side fic. It wasn't planned to happen that fast, but it did, and the result was emotional as all hell. And now, that's non-canon, doesn't exist, poof, because You Say So.

I'd argue the point, but it's obvious that there's no point. You've apparently decided to stick around just long enough to see the last nail driven into WoDA's coffin. So I'll help you out.

As of now, I resign as a WoDA Moderator and am withdrawing my character from play. I will send notification to Chosen to remove my Moderator rights for WoDA.

There you go, Vivi; one step closer to getting to take your ball and go home.

[Dawn OOC]

I know that I'm no longer part of WoDA, and that my opinion may not be welcome. But I once was one of two people working on this board and keeping it going, so I'm going to toss out my quick thoughts.

I understand that Vivi is upset by the lackluster response to the opening fiction. We've seen this frustration with life and apathy slowing things down all over the boards. If the efforts of those involved isn't enough to merit a reward, then the no-experience is appropriate. But declaring it non-canon just takes all the work that was put into it - a total of 33 replies to the orginal post, plus another 27 in "Siblings" as a direct follow up from "Somewhere" - and makes it totally wasted effort.

I'd advise that you change your stance on the non-canon issue and allow people to have that much. No experience is more than fair, but some people were making connections and having fun. Fun is the point, and should be rewarded.

Just my thoughts on the matter; take them as you will.

[Vivi OOC]

Originally Posted By: Jess OOC

Half-cocked rant.

I sincerely hope, Jess, that were I to sit in on one of your LARP games- or heavens forfend, an actual tabletop session- you would not expect me to completely ignore the fact that you were running the session. I would hope that you'd expect me to respect that you were the ST/GM/DM/Grand High Poobah for the evening. I was the ST for "...Somewhere." As the ST, I made the decision, after the fact that the fiction was an utter failure had become abundantly clear, to end it. I also made the decision to nix any XP awards for the reasons I've already cited previously. Just as you would have the right in a fiction you ST'ed, or in a game session over which you presided, I had the right to determine whether or not the effort (or lack thereof) was deserving of an award. To my knowledge, I didn't need permission to made a decision about one of my own ST'ed plot threads, and I wouldn't expect you, Dave, or OTN to ask permission to make a similar call.

I did not, in my estimation, drive off a player. What I've done so far is endure a fruitless (and, in my opinion, unwarranted) barrage of argumentative, hostile, and downright belligerent posts from people who decided to flame and fly madly off the handle instead of attempting any reasonable discourse.

Over a fiction, and a couple of XP.

Please. Think about that, and then tell me, privately, what you're really angry over, and whether or not it's worth it.

I consider you a friend, Jess, and I accept that we are not always going to agree. If you want to talk about it, when you've had time to cool off, awesome. If not, okay, and I'm sorry if that's how you feel.

Originally Posted By: Dawn, OOC

I know that I'm no longer part of WoDA, and that my opinion may not be welcome...

Actually, you're the only person who has managed a civil and rational response thus far, and though I admit to being a little baffled by the vitriol of some of the previous posts, I appreciate both the tone and intent of yours. Thank you.

Insofar as the actual content of your response is concerned, I actually struggled with the canon/not-canon issue, and the primary difficulty I had was in justifying these partial interactions as something upon which plausible stories could later be built. The only thing that I might have considered "resolved" was Shane and Sarah's meeting, since there was no necessity for them to return to the party. For the rest, however... How did conversations which died in the middle wind up? What actually happened at the party? Did someone hook up? Was there a fight? Without context, what could really be said in future interactions except, "Yeah. I went to the party?" There's no way to determine what that party was really like, what that person did, or how they felt about it, because there's no consensus. There's no point of reference, and except for the aforementioned siblings, I couldn't find anything to work with in terms of established canon.

Part of the reason a partial reboot was decried when we were considering options for WoDA was that people would have had to cooperate to create a shared, canon history, deciding as a group what did and didn't happen and (potentially) significantly altering the original timeline. People were vehemently opposed to this idea, for a variety of reasons, so we started with a clean slate to prevent the potential confusion and chaos that concerned everyone. As far as I can tell, that's precisely what would have had to happen in this case in order for anything down the line that referred to this fiction to make sense. This idea was very vocally opposed with respect to the WoDA forum as a whole, so it's not something I considered as an option. To be blunt, if the players and I couldn't get our acts together and finish the fic in the first place after such an early stagnation, I didn't have much faith that we'd be able to coordinate and cooperate to decide on a canon sequence of events. I think it would have been easier to work something out if most of the night was already behind us, but things had only just gotten started.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Good grief. This was a much longer response than I'd intended, so...

tl;dr version: I made a decision, and it was not done out of malice or some misguided desire to steal people's fun or shut down a forum. I have my reasons, and I'm willing to discuss just about anything with someone who can be decent about it. Unfortunately, after reading and responding to most of the previous posts, I'd really prefer not to have to deal with this much vented spleen. You're all entitled to your opinions, I'm not angry at anyone, and I appreciate the relevant points that have been made. If any of you want to talk about it, drop me a line.

Thanks!

[Jess OOC]

No, Vivi, I didn't decide to walk over one fic and a handful of XP. I decided to walk over a series of events, of which this is only the last. I'd considered it at the reboot, but in the end decided to give it one last shot, hoping that maybe it would work out for the best. Well, in the time since that decision, I've watched and been part of a variety of regrettable actions that have led to the point where, after players and potential players dropped away in ones and twos (at least one of whom did so after realizing that he'd never get a character approved), there's no real point in continuing. Having the continuity rug yanked out from under my character's feet - again - was simply the last straw.

There's plenty of blame to go around, myself included; I didn't become a very active moderator in the story-telling sense, and my character monopolized story at a lot of points.

Still, I put a lot of work into WoDA over the past couple of years, and I didn't want to face up to what people had been trying to tell me: that it was all over but the goodbyes. We'll, now I've faced up to it, and it's over.

[z-Shane O'Neally]

Well, I shall quit, too. Thank you for having me it was nice while it lasted.

[Vivi OOC]

The characters removed from play have been sent back to their respective owners.

[Warren Verona]

It has come to my attention that there are interested parties that would very much like to re-open WoDA for play. I think a year is more than enough time for the bad blood to have simmered down.

Consider this an opening to a debate or discussion as to whether or not we, as a group of players, can get some life back into this game. I've read the above posts and it looks like things went to hell in a hand-basket and I'd prefer they not do that again, ever.

The floor is open, I'm all ears, er... eyes.

[Owns-The-Night]

Colour me as one of the interested parties.

I think that it's a crying shame that WoDA fell apart like that. I was guilty as well, due to RL snatching me away at a critical point of the reboot. I'm willing to hike my pants up and try again with Dec Mk2 if others are likewise interested in hijinks and possibly even shenanigans in the L.A. fast track.

Though OTN the First was a fun character, the dependance on other PCs for the pack dynamic proved to be little more than an embuggerance. Firstly because it placed an emphasis on Uratha in the character pool, and secondly because a bundle of factors meant that in over a year of play the Uratha PCs had just gotten to the point of forming the pack in the first place. If we go forward with this resurrection, and gods I hope we do, I'll be keeping Vargr-Dec as my character, mainly so that there'd be no rules or traditions dictating who and what he could 'pack up' with.

Any other issues people have with getting the paddles charged on this game?

[SalmonMax]

I accept my burden of blame. I went into the game with certain expectations, and when various factors meant those expectations weren't met, I didn't handle it very well. Part of it was just that the concept of Ariel was flawed within the setting that the game provides. A creature such as she; clinging to humanity in the face of becoming a werewolf, sacrifices too much, perhaps, to really be playable in a game where there's lots of other people. The notion is interesting on paper, but it breaks down in play.

So there was a lot of friction between me and 'the system,' and I took it out in ways that, in hindsight, I should not have.

If WODA was to restart, and I was to rejoin (which is far from certain given my existing game demands), it would be with a different character. There were a lot of things I liked about Ariel, but in the end getting her to work was just too frustrating.

[Jeremy]

Hmm. I'm interested, though figuring out the Xth version of Jeremy is going to take some time. Are we going to start from scratch all over again though? Or should we try the idea of version 1.0, a few years into the future?

And I should add that I'll admit to being frustrated and unclear with Vivi's ruling, but that banana I won't discuss further. It also doesn't help that Jeremy is too closely to his club, so far.

[Owns-The-Night]

My suggestion is we pick up version 2 where we dropped it. Nothing's broke that a little of the superglue of compromise and discussion won't fix.

[z021]

I'd be up for redoing Oneca, though my posting is a bit erratic at the moment.

[SalmonMax]

I'm thinking of a mage, leaning either Acanthus or Thyrsus. If there are changelings, it might be fun to do Acanthus, since there'd be some ties that way. Otherwise I can do whatever.

Thyrsus of course, might connect with our resident werewolf and gangrel though, so it could go either way.

HM!

[Jeremy]

Well, I'm divided whether to do Changeling Jeremy or Corvian (Changing Breed) Jeremy. Either way, I think I need to divest him from the nightclub, at least not making it so tied to the character.

[Vivi OOC]

I've given this a lot of thought over the last few days. I have mixed feelings, to be honest.

To address what Jeremy said regarding my decision, since he brought it up (and yes, mentioning something and saying you don't want to talk about it is still bringing it up. If you don't want to discuss something, don't. ):

I've considered (several times since WoDA closed) the various arguments, sentiments, and tantrums, and I still feel I made the choice I did for the right reasons. It didn't have to be the end of the metaphorical world, or anything more than a speedbump in progress; the fiction wasn't remotely close to finished, nothing was conclusively determined, and I didn't feel it was substantial enough on its own merit to support other work. That was it. The fic could have been re-worked, re-opened, or something new could've been done in its place, and I would've been fine with any of those options. As it was, it dead-ended except for the spin-off with Sarah and Shane (which was eligible for XP since it was finished, and well-written, even if not considered canon), and I wasn't comfortable rubber-stamping an inactive group fiction based on one offshoot. I also refuse to point fingers at anyone as the main contributor(s) to the game's closure, but I acknowledge that several players are convinced I "killed" WoDA. I regret the way things ended, but not the decision itself, so take that as you will.

Jeremy, if you were still unclear about something, you've had months to send me a PM or just ask me about it in chat. In fact, I offered in this very thread to discuss the situation privately, and no one ever asked. In re-reading this thread, I realized that one of the things I'd been considering was actually something you mentioned previously, though I'm not sure you meant it in quite the way I arrived at the same conclusion:

Originally Posted By: Jeremy Noctis

The fact is that he is not as well placed in connections or personality/racial preferences (IE- He is a changeling) to begin establishing relationships with the other PCs.

I think you needed that particular fiction, not because of the experience or the writing, but because you'd designed a character whose ability to meet and interact with other PCs was excruciatingly limited. You had nothing else to do with him, could think of no other plausible way to get him involved that wasn't excessively contrived (and I say "excessively" because most fictions assume a certain degree of arrangement and contrivance). This was the character you created, however, and I feel it was more than a little unfair to excoriate me when that simple fact is taken into account. If you choose to rejoin, I would strongly recommend you make a character that has the means, opportunity, and sufficient reason to get involved. That's going to lessen the strain on any ST, and minimize the hoops you and other players would have to jump through to make it work.

Now, to everyone else, what I said before still stands: I'm not at all opposed to anyone creating a character and playing/writing in WoDA. It would be ridiculously unfair of me to discourage someone who wanted to join from doing so based solely on my personal feelings. I'd be lying, though, if I said all wounds were healed. I'm not angry, but it really, really hurt, and to some extent, still does. I lost a good friend over this, and that's not something I take lightly.

[SalmonMax]

So if this happens, and I shan't just assume that it will just yet though it looks hopeful, should we follow the character generation rules in the Rules post? Or should we make new rules, or use the rules exactly as specified in the main rulebook?

[Owns-The-Night]

At the risk of speaking out of turn, I'd be happy using the WoDA character creation rules. This also means I can be lazy and simply use the last OTN without juggling figures , since the two 3XP awards from the abortive restart can be simply scrubbed off.

[Sarah Dead-Wolf]

So. I first heard about this in chat last Friday. And was thrilled to the point of babbling. Now I've calmed down.

I miss WoDA. Honestly, I miss the original WoDA the most, but I miss the setting as a whole. It was fun, it had huge possibilities, and it let me play the concept I'd been wanting to play for years.

I'm also responsible for a lot of went wrong with WoDA. I'm not going into the whole messy list, but I was a lackluster moderator, and in-character I tried to push too far, too fast.

Yes, I think I'd like a reboot. And yeah, I'd like to do Sarah again, though maybe a Sarah who is a little more... oh, lets say calm. I still have the log of her reboot creation, and with refurbishing of her background story (there's no Amber, and that's gonna change how she came to be as she is), it's a workable character.

The last set of character creation rules - 50XP, simple merits, etc - work just fine and ducky, allowing for a character that can do something without making it a walking god.

I guess my question would be how we'd like the reboot to work as a game. Open world or moderator-story run, etc. The one thing I'll say for certain is that I'm not going to be a moderator; I'm currently an ST for a 23-player Forsaken venue in the Camarilla, and that's honestly enough on my plate. That and, well, I stank as a moderator.

[SalmonMax]

It's hard to impartially moderate something you're emotionally close to.

I think Dave was saying he'd want to keep it mostly open-world, with moderation where necessary. Now that I have a better idea of what that means, and can build a character who's more self-directed, I think idea's fine.

[Ravi FitzCoventry]

OW with occasional Moderation is how I'm trying to do 200x, and it's working out okay.

[Sarah Dead-Wolf]

I'm down with that.

[jameson (ST)]

Since I might be interested in this can somebody point to the most recent version of the rules/bible? I'd like to see what was done about experience awards, chargen, and what all is allowed with the reboot. Also I'd like to vote on a 100% reboot, start everybody off on the same footing in the interest of gathering as many new players as possible. I'm saying this without a full understanding of what my prior involvement would grant me for chargen (if any) under the logic that I don't want any potential bonus to sway my opinion. I think that if this is to fly more players are needed than we had before, and allowing new people to start at the same footing/level/experience as the returnees may help with this.

[Owns-The-Night]

http://www.rpg-post.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/174092/Rules_for_World_of_Darkness_At.html#Post174092

And as I understand it, we will be starting completely over, yes.

[Dave ST]

Whatever we used for the re-boot is fine for the character creation process. I'll be honest, I haven't looked up what that was yet and I've totally forgotten.

WoDA was open world with moderation when it was needed to keep us in line from escaping things like humanity losses or wisdom reductions after setting ablaze a bus load of nuns so our Baali brothers could have a marshmallow roast. For the record, moderation wasn't flawless, as our ways of interpreting the rules are as individual as we are. One thing I always stressed was to remove personal involvement from the situation and seek out a solution that, while someone might not agree with it, was fair.

I've tried running ST Driven plot threads, and for the most part they were successful. Although I felt the cheese factor was a bit high in the thread where they delved into Swara's dreams, I absolutely loved reading what all of you (Dawn, Max, Jeremy, Dec, Vivi, Jess, sorry if I forgot anyone) put into that fiction. That is the essence of WoDA: the story.

You guys know me well enough by now, I'm all about cheese. I want stories to be over the top, filled with everything that's larger than life. Why? Because as PCs in this world you are larger than life. Everything about you is already far grander by design than the simps who are pushing a 9-5 in the daily grind. Your very existence is destined to be exaggerated so we should not just write gore, it should skip to grind house. We don't just have have drama- normal people have drama. We have soap opera insanity. We don't get 'a guy came by looking for you earlier,' normal people have that. We have 'they've sent cyborgs from the future to hunt and destroy you to change the time stream'.

Okay, maybe the cyborgs would be a bit much, but you guys get the idea. This place (and I don't mean WoDA only) is a place for us to be modern day Rumplestiltskins and spin pure gold from the straws of our imagination. Sometimes we create pure 24 karat awesomeness, and other times we get a lead brick from our collaborative efforts. Wanna know something though? Reading even the 'bad' fictions we've done, and there've been a few, I can always look at them and say "That's still some damn fine writing." It's not about the numbers or the XP points, or even the rules. It's all about what we've created.

I'm pretty flexible when it comes to the rules, even to the point of almost rewriting some of them to better suit what a player would like their character to become. I'll work with people, dear God will I work with people. One thing I will not do is endure temper tantrums (and I know I've thrown a few myself during my day). Guys, we're adults and nine times out of ten we have a tendency to get worked up and bitch just for the sake of bitching instead of recognizing that sometimes, in order to resolve issues, a call needs to be made that not everyone will agree with. It's through discussion and level-headedness that we will resolve the problems so that all of us can move on and continue to write about our PCs ever so charmed existences.

ST Driven plots will make a comeback, I hope. I like doing them. Here's the issue I have with it though: we'd get four people to participate and only three were available so the plot didn't go anywhere. I have to accept some blame for this as well, as my schedule then was a bit hectic, but thankfully it's not anymore. I want people to face scenarios where the story is not scripted by their imagination. As such, if these are run (and anyone can do an ST Driven thread, not just mods) then we need to decide on a means by which we can keep the momentum going.

ST Driven threads were, and will remain, the only way PCs can achieve rewards that are not XP based. These are the 'special little snowflake' rewards that you can gain that will set you apart from the other PCs. Sarah's quest to change her Humanity over is a great example of that. It's not in the rules, but she worked hard for it so we bent as many as we could without breaking things too much. Also, ST Driven stories are the only means by which you can be awarded free 'dots'.

Higher XP awards will be the norm, but ST Driven plots should be the only means by which PCs can accomplish the things that will set them apart from their peers (within their respective venues, and amongst the PCs as well).

That's all I have for now.

[Jeremy]

Hmm. I think I'm going to add a Corvian Jeremy this time. So Dec won't be the only were-animal out there in LA.

[Owns-The-Night]

Damn. Now I won't be able to brood in splendid isolation on my rooftop haunts, cloak flapping in the wind as I ponder the bleak meaninglessness of existence.

Oh. Wait... Wrong character.