Aberrant: In the Beginning - House Rules- (Suggestion Box)

[Courier]

Let's look at the math.

I buy Healing (Level 3, Q4 power) at 5 dots.

Untainted that's 25 nova points.

With all of them tainted that 15 nova points and 5 taint (so I have +10 nova points to buy on stuff).

First day of the game I go under, and sell 4 dots of Healing for 70 experience, and reduce my taint score down to three (20 exp), and I spend 50 exp on 8 mega-stats.

Old Character:

Healing 5

Taint 5

NP Cost: 15

New Character

Healing 1

Taint 3

8 dots in Megas:

NP Cost: 29

So this is abusable. But that's just in theory, let's see if I can make in work in practice.

Hmm.. the 5th costs 28. So I can buy that tainted for 14 experience and then sell it for 28 and buy off the taint for 10, netting me 4 experience.

The 4th costs 21, tainted for 11. This doesn't net me anything but it does reduce the cost to enter it. I.e. I buy both dots tainted for 25exp. When I sell them I get back 49, so it's really only 26 exp to go in.

OK, my thoughts on the matter are as follows.

1) This is pretty close to a radiation accident (Champions I think), where you drop *lots* of experience on the character and rebuild him. If that's what we want to do then just call it a "secondary eruption" (or Chrysalis) and drop the requirement that the character need taint 5 to enter it.

2) Selling off power dots in exchange for experience seems abusive. This is especially true when using that experience to enter the state, and especially since going under is a tactical advantage. In theory I could sell off 3 dots of a power, enter the state, and then buy them all back after whatever emergency is over. Granted, I can think of exceptions, but still.

2a) Selling off power dots for experience is very abusive when we're talking about Nova Point purchases, much less so for experience purchases.

I suggest the following:

1) No selling of dots to fire this up. Save your experience, that indicates intent and devotion.

2) The sale of power dots will be judged by the ST for appropriateness and value returned. Maybe the ST gives back all, maybe nothing, maybe half or 75%. I'd suggest *all* only when the new power to be purchased is a super-set of the old. I.e. the ST might allow Elemental Anima to be sold or exchanged for Elemental Mastery.

3) Reduction of Taint costs 10 exp per dot. Reduction of taint does *not* get rid of aberrations and thus not social mods either. (We probably should talk about this, especially with Sin Eater and the Aberration Manip powers in the game).

[Stargaizer]

Ok, a few questions. The first is to Titan, you haven't responded to the question of whether or not we can buy back/get rid of aberrations.

Second, what happens to the 50xp that we need to have to go into chrysalis? The who and what paragraphs makes it seem like that 50 xp is spent simply going into chrysalis, and thus are no longer available to the player. However, in the how paragraph you speak of an xp pool, as if we can use those 50 xp to buy things, like new powers, or buy off the 5 dots of taint that let us go into chrysalis in the first place.

Thirdly, the question about quantum 5 is a good one... could we get a response (I think that the answer to both my first question and this one should be yes, we can get rid of aberrations and can get quantum 5 w/o taint)

Lastly, I would just like to say THANK YOU!!! From what I've read, chrysalis as it is in cannon makes a bad thing (taint) worse (more aberrations). This solution actually seems like a solution to me.

Edit

First, Courier, you can't sell your dots in a power before you go into Chrysalis (so far as I understand it).

Second, I would suggest that instead of buying back powers at full xp cost, you buy them back at the cost that you got them for (or even buy them back at tainted xp cost if you want to make it more difficult, though I in no way, shape or form want or promote this idea). That way, you couldn't 'gain' xp by going into Chrysalis. This is the only change that I would suggest, at this point in time.

[SkyLion]

Originally Posted By: Darklighter

Provided, of course, that the Nova is sufficiently introspective, esoteric, dedicated, etc. Most people need some sort of training, contemplation, or other extensive process to acquire the personality traits that seems to be at the root of chrysalis.

If yopu read what Titan and I have said is that we feel like Chrysalis should not be based on a phiosophical belief system. Discipline yes. Belief, no.

Also: Once again its Courier for the win! How do those numbers taste Courier? mmmm....crunchy!

[Darklighter]

Yep - got that aspect of it. Be nice if it wasn't something that was too easy is all I am saying. If it is too easy, then it will loose value. Both in IC and OOC contexts.

[SkyLion]

I like the idea that it takes pushing oneself or ones powers to do it. Its like a hidden gem in nova evolution that only the true pioneers and explorers will be able to reach.

[SkyLion]

I guess now Titan has to review our critique and tell us what he thinks and what if any changes he will implement.

[Rorx]

Hey Titan, just a quick query - I was wondering what books/fan supplements you were allowing stuff from?

I don't know for sure yet, (I can't check as easy as I'd like since th epdf reader on my cell phone crashed) but I was considering some of the stuff in Brainwaves and/or Sprocket's Aberrant Compendium (over on Eon).

If/when I get a chance to pin down specifics I'll PM you anyway, although that may be a way off...

[Titan]

I tend to allow all of it. Tweaking the powers with weaknesses and such, run by me, but most of the ebooks and such are cool.

[Jaunt]

Emportation (Teleport Extra)

The nova is permitted to make safe blind jumps by using the empathic resonance of other individuals. So the nova could say "Just think of the lake you and your family used to go fishing at, and close your eyes." and the Emporter would take himself and the target to the spot detailed in the subjects mind.

System: Once a Teleporter has attuned a target he may focus on a location that the passenger is thinking about, spend the necessary quantum points and the two will arrive in the spot pictured in the subject's mind, allowing the Emporter to travel to places 'blindly' with out fear of missing the mark. Empathic destinations are considered familiar only for that one use of the power. The ST should determine when a character becomes familiar with a destination separately.

The Emporter is at the mercy of the passenger in terms of destination, but the destination must be a real place and the passenger must actually be familiar with it.

[SalmonMax]

Hmm...interesting! What if it had one dot of Telepathy as a pre-req?

[Jaunt]

Probably because it's empathic, not telepathic. That's what the attunment process is. The quantum links your power with the place pictured in the subject's mind.

You just go where the feeling or memory takes you, you're not delving into their mind to see what places look good.

Does the 'Natural Empath' enhancement have Telepathy as a pre-req?

[SalmonMax]

Just tossing ideas around. I was really just asking what you thought, not trying to make an oblique suggestion.

[Stargaizer]

I think the point is that you have to be attuned with that person... so it actually has a pre-req of 5 dots in attunement. Sorta, in a way (if I understand this right), because of the attunement, the nova provides the power while the attuned provides the direction/control/targeting.

Interesting drawback might be if both the teleporter and the attuned person both have destinations in mind. Might end up in either place, some where in the middle, or somewhere else entirely random (fun fun way for the ST to have fun).

[Jaunt]

Originally Posted By: Stargaizer

I think the point is that you have to be attuned with that person... so it actually has a pre-req of 5 dots in attunement. Sorta, in a way (if I understand this right), because of the attunement, the nova provides the power while the attuned provides the direction/control/targeting.

No extras have pre-reqs. If the extra says you need to attune a person and people can't figure out that you should probably look into having Attunement 5 before buying this extra or it might be useless for awhile, then screw em'. I don't hold the hands of the stupid and guide them through life.

Quote:

Interesting drawback might be if both the teleporter and the attuned person both have destinations in mind. Might end up in either place, some where in the middle, or somewhere else entirely random (fun fun way for the ST to have fun).

The ST can worry about that. This isn't a Babylon Candle. When the attunement process happens the power links to the subjects destination, over riding the players own choice for where to go.

[SkyLion]

Quote:

Empathic destinations are considered familiar only for that one use of the power. The ST should determine when a character becomes familiar with a destination separately.

The only thing I would say is that once a 'porter has been somewhere they can visualize the place again. At least that's the way it's been done in every game I've ever played in. Otherwise, I like it. A fine addition to your repetoire of teleportation.

[Courier]

Interesting... I don't see any problems with it.

[Jaunt]

Originally Posted By: SkyLion

The only thing I would say is that once a 'porter has been somewhere they can visualize the place again. At least that's the way it's been done in every game I've ever played in.

A good point, and that's honestly what most STs I've spoken to about Teleportation have said as well. I've always handled it differently. Just because you've seen it, or been there it doesn't mean you're necessarily familiar with the place, so a blind port can still apply.

It's just a preference of mine to play more practical nova's with more practical powers. It makes me feel like the character is flawed and capable of mistakes or mishaps. Perfect characters are boring in my eyes.

After a certain amount of time spent in a place a ST can say they are now familiar with it. If something traumatic happens during a short period of time (positive or negative) that can lessen the time it takes to make that place 'known' to you. Most simple places that a character frequents often, like the mall, movie theatre, favorite hangouts, secret sanctum, etc. are obviously 'known'. The rest you just RP.

Like Namoria's home is not 'known' to Jaunt, so he couldn't TP back like it was a simple task. It might not be a blind jump, but it wouldn't be simple for him. But he could jaunt to his house, even in the alternate timeline, simply because he knows that area well (whether his house is still there or not isn't an issue)

Oh, and Max, I wasn't being cross with you. Just so ya know.

[SalmonMax]

This thread is for the discussion of rules and rulings listed on the Bigass GM Thread.

And...GO!

[Mr Fox]

Suggestion if you go with the 5th dot rule:

(Btw, I like the rule, but I don't like the increased costs.)

Resources should not be a 5th dot thing since resources is defined as a specific amount and anyone with over that amount of money would have 5 dots, and there would be thousands of people in the world today with 5 dots. The top people in the world have way, way more money than 5 dots, ie Bill Gates, Queen Elizabeth, that prince in Dubai, etc.

[SalmonMax]

Yes. The way backgrounds work is due for an update.

That's on the agenda. The goal is to make Resources cover every circumstance from: "I have only this one outfit," up through, "I am among the richest people in the world."

In just 5 dots.

One thought I had was the idea of reviving the "superbackground" trait from Adventure. So if you have 5 dots in Resources but it's just not enough, you can dump some points into the 6th dot of LEGENDARY Resources and be a king among men.

Or something. Still tinkering with that idea.

[Teagan Shae Ammer]

I like that idea! Especially if you go with the Adventure rule that you can only ever have 2 backgrounds (I'd even say only one) like that. When you have that, it's one of the most defining parts of your character.

[Mr Fox]

Given the state of the real world a 6th dot would be reasonable. There are thousands of people with resources 5 alive right now, probably tens of thousands, but there are only handful of people in the league of Bill Gates, the Prince of Dubai, Queen Elizabeth and those guys.

Of course prepare, because I intend Colin to be among them soon. :biggrin:

[SkyLion]

With all respect, White Wolf has been reprinting the same Resources ranks/amounts ever since they started publishing which was how many years ago? I think that given inflation and scale that 5 dots in resources would be more like a Billionaire and that Bill Gates would have resources 6.

Re: 5th dot rule. Its already pretty expensive so I am likewise not in favor of raising prices. the need for a rationalle, outside of quantum intervention that is...is sound.

You mention that costs are normal for NP though...does that imply that like Fox and Titan, you will occasionally award NP in additio to standard xp?

Last question for this post:

You mentioned to me that you might be revoking the Contacts 5 that Titan awarded all of us present at Aeon's founding. Presumably this was because since we are so in with Aeon and Aeon is this secret society with it's devious little fingers in everyone's pie, that we would have that level of Ubiquitous connection. Are you still revoking those dots?

Also, and I know you will get to this in backgrounds but you did mention that you were looking at how Influence works. This is of particular importance to my character concept as the first "superhero" Nova and a global media Icon.

[Stargaizer]

I agree with Fox. I like the 5th dot being character defining... don't really like the double cost of it.

[SkyLion]

Originally Posted By: Inoue

I like that idea! Especially if you go with the Adventure rule that you can only ever have 2 backgrounds (I'd even say only one) like that. When you have that, it's one of the most defining parts of your character.

I too love the Adventure rules especially Background Enhancements...I vote yes!

Although Inoue, your statement made me go huh? So I looked it up and sure enough there is no such rule limiting purchase of background enhancements to only 2. Rather the limit is xp and RP. Not to say that Max cannot institue such a limit but I am curious where you found that limit???

[Stargaizer]

I think (s)he meant only 2 backgrounds at lvl 5. I think.

[SkyLion]

Well you have to have 5 before you can buy a background enhancement anyways. Pray tell, on what page is this rule located...am searching but cannot find mention of it...

[SalmonMax]

Full details will have to wait until I finish the Rules post, but the 5 free Contact points that Aeon people got will be replaced for two reasons. One, because the way Contacts work is going to change, and 5 dots in it doesn't mean what it used to. More on this soon. Two, because I mean to put together some packages that I call Affiliations, which bundle some background bonuses along with a duty to the organization that issues it.

So, for example, you can join Aeon, and gain it as an Affiliation. This means you get some Backing and some Contacts, but that you agree to act in accordance with Aeon's goals and will help them where and when you can and so on. If you ignore the obligations long enough, then you'll find the bennies starting to fade too.

Possible Affiliations will continue to expand as the game does. The INA...Novus, Inc, and so on...all of those.

The relationship between Affiliation and Backing is still something I'm smoothing out. My first thought was to include it in Affiliation, but we'll see...that might cheapen it a bit...

When the new rules are up, it will hopefully be clearer, and we can decide from there how we want Affiliations to work.

[Teagan Shae Ammer]

I've only played one game of Adventure and I don't have access to the books, so that may have been a house rule. Regardless, I think it is a good house rule, as allowing characters to take multiple backgrounds into the Legendary realms is unrealistic. When you're talking about having that much focus/influence/whatnot in an area, you're also talking about spending a great deal of time maintaining that level. This could be partially represented by only being able to have one Legendary background at a time.

[Fahrenheit]

Do we have to vote on proposals? Or is this discussion only and you consider ideas and then refine yours and voila. Set?

Just asking - because if I'm expected to vote on anything I need to know.

As far as the 5-dot rule goes. I'm all for it. I'm on the same page as you are, Max

[Stargaizer]

I would say max of 2 legendary backgrounds at a time, especially if one of those were resources. It might take a lot to get that much money, but to keep it all you really have to do is not spend it...

[Adrian Moss]

So the consulation of having no Affiliatin will be that you are your own boss? Will the indies get a chance to develop their own reputation outside the Affiliation system?

[SkyLion]

Originally Posted By: Inoue

I've only played one game of Adventure and I don't have access to the books, so that may have been a house rule. Regardless, I think it is a good house rule, as allowing characters to take multiple backgrounds into the Legendary realms is unrealistic. When you're talking about having that much focus/influence/whatnot in an area, you're also talking about spending a great deal of time maintaining that level. This could be partially represented by only being able to have one Legendary background at a time.

Yeah sounds like a house rule and I am totally down wit whatever Max wants. I would just say though that Adventure! games are some of the most diverse and it would not be out of place in an epic game to have characters with Sanctum Sanctorum, Kingpin, an Artifacts, and Wealth beyond Avarice. I love Adventure!

As for Affiliations... Max. Is this something we would buy? As in if I want to have an affiliation with Aeon AND work for Nova Inc (as per Rich's accomodations of that), do we have to buy both with xp? Or is it more fluid than that? Likewise if i sign up for multiple contracts or get stipends from Aeon, do i have to buy the resources to represent that or does the money just come IC?

Just some stuff to think about answering as you make your posts...

[SalmonMax]

Affiliations would be "free," in that they don't cost exp. However, easy come, easy go...I expect Affiliations to be fairly fluid and shifting...and they don't come without strings.

Basically, Affiliations are a way for me to reward a character for tying himself down to an existing organization.

Players that go it alone won't have Affiliations, but they also won't have as many demands on their character from outside.

[Mr Fox]

I agree with the Mega Manip suggestions. It should contain a form of lie detector. I also think it should be useful in determining when people are using other social enhancement on you.

I would prefer that mega strength not change. It doesn't effect my build much, but I can see where it could really downgrade a brick type in effectiveness. Also remember those auto successes don't just apply to combat, they apply to anything that requires a strength roll like picking up that school bus and moving it to safety before the raging fire from the over turned gasoline truck can reach it. Titan Omega bends to pick up the bus and gives himself a hernia because he suddenly botched his roll and got no successes. "Sorry kids you're fucked today, the dice weren't with me and what I could lift easily yesterday I just can't manage today. Must have slept wrong and thrown my back out or something. Hang on for ten minutes or so and I'll try again..." "But the fire is coming closer and the truck is going to explode any minute now we'll be burned to death." "Sorry, I know it sucks, but strength isn't what it used to be."

Sorry I know that was kinda pointed, but I think it illustrates the reason for autosuccesses. Strength isn't something that is going to differ in effectiveness every time you use it. If I can benchpress 150lbs today, I'm going to be able to do the same thing any time I try, I might get too tired to do it, or be too injured to do it, but I'm never not going to be able to do it outside of those circumstances; stress and environmental factors won't change my lifting capacity.

[SkyLion]

What he said.

[Primal]

Originally Posted By: Mr Fox

I agree with the Mega Manip suggestions. It should contain a form of lie detector. I also think it should be useful in determining when people are using other social enhancement on you.

It already does this per the RAW. You receive bonus dice whenever someone tries to manipulate you, lying is manipulating you, so you would receive your bonus dice to detect the manipulation.

Again with the second point, any social or mental enhancement that affects another person is manipulation and you would receive all relevant bonus dice to resist or counter those attempts, this includes the 'Seduction Enhancements' as well as things like 'The Voice' and 'Persuader'. Your bonus dice from Mega-Manipulation always apply.

[Stargaizer]

I agree with Fox about the strength. It's a good idea, but it doesn't work (for the above (overly)stated reason(s)).

Thanks for the breakdown.

[SalmonMax]

Re Strength: I see your point, but I still get the nagging feeling that 25 autosuccesses for damage for 15 nova points is a bit excessive... What if the autos still counted for noncombat use, but were counted as extra dice only for damage dealing purposes?

Primal: Thanks for the clarification on Mega Manipulation. That's an excellent point and one I'm a bit abashed I didn't notice on my first read through.

[SkyLion]

I think Courier has actually addressed the strength issue in the past and he could put forth the argument better than I but the gist of it is that combat in Abby is actually very balanced in terms of damage vs success. Mega strength is balanced against Q-bolt is I believe one of his examples.

Perhaps he can comment and shed light on it better.

In short if you change Mega Strength that way you just made a bunch of other stuff waaay more powerful. Its a complex issue.