Aberrant: The Middle Children of History - Rules Questions

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: Elspeth

I had mentioned to Mods back in the day when we had mods that I would like to increase quantum at some point. I was told that it would be considered.

Well that time has come. Unfortunately, we have no mods to make the call.

You are flat wrong on one point, pointed out above. MCH does have a moderator. It's Justin. He took it over with the blessing of the nominal moderators who were waiting to see if anyone wanted the job. He offered, and Jess and I turned it over. He is the moderator now.

Originally Posted By: Elspeth

My intention with Elspeth is to tell the story of her saving her people by taking those willing to accompany her to a new planet. She will terraform that world and turn it into an Eden. In order to do that it requires Q8, lvl 5 powers. Geologic Supremacy, Climatic Supremacy, etc. That is my goal for the character.

I singled out this quote for a reason. I'm going to try to be nice when I say it, but I know that it will probably not come out in a nice way. It feels like your desires and wishes for your PC are being used to try to strongarm everyone else into something they may not be comfortable with or even alter their world to the point where they don't want to play or enjoy anymore. To imply that Quantum limits should be raised just so that you can have your fun is a bit inconsiderate of the other players. I understand that may not be your intention, but that is the way it came across to me.

Now, for my opinion
I am opposed to raising Quantum as a player, and would have been as a moderator, too. I'm not sure who you spoke with, Fox, nor am I sure what Mala and PW said or indicated. My post here is only as a player and to provide historical recollects, such as they are. I know I wasn't keen on any quantum advancement due to the excessively open nature of this board. Honestly, the characters out here are already pretty sick, power-wise, even with adding in years of an exceedingly generous xp allowance. I already read some of the sheets and just shake my head; they are just as bad or worse than the some of the things I saw at the height of the 'arms rush' on the N!Prime. For those who know their RPG-Post history, it was this madness that inspired the 2010 and 200x boards, in an attempt to limit this kind of advancement.

I know people like powerful games. But there is such a thing as too much in a game without an ST to keep a cap on or just say no. And this is too much.

[Mr Fox]

Interesting.

I don't take offense, because I understand what I said might come across that way. It isn't intended that way, but understand that I do feel strongly about this.

As far as the history thing goes, I think it was you that I mentioned it to specifically and got the answer that it would be 'considered' or something to that effect. Not a positive response, but also not a negative. I walked away from that with the feeling that it would be possible down the road somewhere or that at least it wasn't out of the question. Had I known that the game would not allow advancement I wouldn't have joined.

Let me clarify that for everyone that the primary reason I joined MCoH was that it allowed me to play a 'powerful' PC. The highest NP starting characters of any game (that I'm aware of) on this board. I think my desire for advancement of my characters is well known. It's not for any of my characters ever the only reason, or the primary reason, but it is part of the enjoyment that I derive from the 'game'/'story'. I'm not going to deny that. But, this is the ONE game and character where I intentionally started writing with the idea in mind to advance the character into the upper levels of power.

If I was wrong about this game being that place then it was my mistake. Despite this horrible motivation of focusing so blatantly on evil numbers (yes, that's scarcasm because so many people are so violently opposed to any talk of numbers), despite that, I've had numerous complements on the stories I've told with Elspeth. Just the other day someone spoke up saying that Elspeth and Bastion stories were what made them want to join the setting. I take that as a serious compliment and as proof that my evil focus on numbers is definitely not getting in the way of good story telling. (I know I'm not the best writer here and I struggle with certain aspects of telling a good story *conflict*, I still try to throw elements in to them that challenge the PC no matter what the power level.)

So, by no means should anyone read this as me trying to stiff arm anyone into giving me what I want. I just want you to understand that my motivation from the beginning in MCoH was to have that 'one' character that I went wild with that there were no limits on the power level. Right now there is no game that I'm aware of on the site that is uncapped. I think that's a shame, this is the character I chose to go wild with and now I'm finding out it won't be possible and there is no setting I can play in where it is.

You refer to the insanity that was 2010 and 200x, but I wasn't in those games and didn't experience that. I think from my writing of Elspeth it's obvious that I'm not trying to take part in an arms race, but trying to write decent stories. I'd like to write them in this setting, if I can't I'll write them in another setting even if I have to create the setting myself. Please, please don't read that as me trying to force my desires on anyone else. Feel free to read that as me childishly taking my toy and going home if you wish, that's entirely within the realm of reasonable interpretation of my words.

So to sum up. My intention with Elspeth is to take her into the upper levels of power. If the players here aren't comfortable with that, then it makes me sad since I think I've proven my ability to write this already powerful character consistently and well.

My proposal would set specific limits on that arms race. 2 years of actual participation in the game to Q8, then 4 years to q9 and 6 years to q10. 6 years is a hell of a long time for a game to run, realistically it is highly unlikely that the game will ever run that long.

Speaking to Justin_OOC in chat he proposed a compromise, 2 years per quantum point increase. That would mean another 2 years of writing before I'd hit Q8. That's not exactly an arms race and anyone wanting to rush to power and to game specifically for power wouldn't be very enticed by the idea of 2 years per point increase. That's not the way Darksiders work. The easy road to power folks won't wait 4, 6 or 8 years of actual writing and participation and I think they would be exposed as power monkeys long before that and could be dealt with.

So I ask, consider establishing rules for increasing the cap at a reasonable rate as suggested above. For low level games they are all over the site, there are no options for a good high level one. I'd like MCoH to be that place.

[Dawn OOC]

First, the 'insanity' I mentioned spawned 2010 and 200x; it didn't happen in them. 2010 was started specifically because people were upset at the lack of limits in N!Prime. MCH still offers limits, but higher than those set. You mentioned that there are no games to play out Elspeth's arc in. That is true for a reason: because those levels of power are unreasonable.

Second, I have no issue with big numbers. Numbers are great in that they give us guidelines for our PCs - how strong they are, how fast they can move and whether they can crochet a doily. They're great to quickly and effectively stop any arguments about whether or not something can be done by any given PC in given situations - like combat. They are also great when they offer limits to our PCs. But I do feel that Aberrant's scale of power is wildly distorted in the upper levels of power. It is, in my opinion, insane.

Third, as an ST or player, I'll consider any suggestion. I try to keep an open mind. As you said, I said it would be considered, and I believe that is happening now. So far, the reasons for going past Q6 have not been enough to sway my stance. Again, with no offense, because you need it for your PC's story isn't compelling enough.

I have one question for you. You mentioned that you thought your PC would be in the upper limits of power. Why do you think that Elspeth isn't there already? Her sheet is full of those 'evil numbers'. Why do you feel it isn't enough?

[Bastion]

The quantum score limits are fine where they are (at 6).

I may have been more agreeable to raising them (I've asked twice if the Q-cap had been raised) had people not been spending the past several weeks trying to rewrite MCoH rules with only themselves in mind and not others.

The suggestion has, at this point, lost its credibility IMO.

[Mr Fox]

Quote:

Why do you feel it isn't enough?

Because what I had planned for the character is for her to terra-form a planet. Her current power level is fine for what she is doing right now, but I have a goal in mind for the character which can't be reached under the cap on QR.

Dawn,
I can see that you are very strongly opposed to anyone ever hitting the upper Q ratings. That's a shame, but you are welcome to that opinion. Mine is that it ought to be allowed and that this would be a good setting for it to happen in. It is a game about the lead up to the Aberrant war after all.

Bastion,
Fair enough. I did come down against giving people joining the game fresh and being given 200 xp for free. I was pretty insistent about it too. I can see some irony there. On the other hand, I don't think that my request is out of line with that, in both cases I think time spent participating in game aught to equal reward.

I'd still like the players of the game to weigh in. If the majority don't want the cap to raise then it won't.

Bottom line for me is that at some point I am going to take Elspeth to higher power levels whether it is in this setting or another because that is the story I planned to write. If everyone votes for not raising the cap in MCoH then perhaps I'll stick around and raise everything else I have any desire to raise on Elspeth's sheet and write shared stories with everyone else in the meantime. There is at least a couple years worth of other things I want to buy for her and lots of stories that could be written with the folks here.

On the other hand, we have all these rules and powers in the books that I've never had the chance to play with, and this setting alone of all I know of currently running on the site allowed 90np novas and gives 20xp per month. That means that except for the cap on QR it is the most powerful game on the site and the closest I've come to being able to purchase those powers. So far I've never seen a game go high enough or long enough to reach Q8, I was hoping this would be it. As I said above, Elspeth was a conscious choice on my part to create a character that would reach those power levels. I've never had a character do it before and had decided this would be the one. Hell, I've never been in or seen any game that went beyond Q6. Maybe folks here have seen the horrors of high quantum in past games and are justifiably shy of seeing it happen again, but I haven't had the chance to play with that kind of power and I want to. I've proven already that power in and of itself doesn't ruin good story telling, as Dawn has pointed out Elspeth is already very powerful, and I've been telling what I hope are enjoyable stories, I've certainly gotten good feedback about them from multiple people so far.

Somehow I doubt I'm the only one that would like to see at least one game on the site that would go beyond the standard Q6.

[Vivi OOC]

Just a thought, but even if the players are against raising the maximum Quantum scores, there's nothing stopping you (and anyone interested) from writing those stories outside canon. Some of the best fictions on the site have been AU.

[Ptesan-Wi]

Hmm.

Colour me among those not aware of the current policy. A bit over four months ago, I'd bumped PW from Psi 6 to Psi 7. Mind you, Psi 7 is a lot like Quantum 4 (on a good day, if the psiad has a tail wind and nobody too interested in pounding her into pudding), but still... yeah.

In PW's case, I've got a real simple solution. Since PW is currently at just a tad over two years in play rather than three, I'd like to simply freeze her at Psi 7 for the next four years, until 4 June 2014. I'd also freeze her from buying anything - mega-attribute, power level, whatever - that requires Psi 7 until 4 June 2011 (the three-year mark).

That's my proposal, but this is Justin's show at this point; if he requires a roll-back, she'll get a roll-back.

- Jess

[Courtney Adams]

I'd have to say that, for the moment at least, I'm against raising the cap, for reasons that have already been touched on by Dawn and Dave.

More to the point, it's just plain unnecessary, even considering Fox's plans for Elspeth. Consider:

What if Elspeth wanted to find and colonise an promising world? It's already possible. She just needs to take a longer, wider view. Find certain other Q6 novas with the right gifts. Warp with Mastery 1, for instance, should be ample to go exploring the galaxy. Weather Control and the various Elemental Anima powers with Mastery 1 are definitely enough to begin making small changes to microclimates, if applied with Nova-level intelligence and exactness over a period of time. Genius novas could design habitation domes and various other engineering related goodies to make life a little easier.

Sure, Elspeth can't take a ball of cold rock with a poisonous atmosphere, wave her hands, and turn it into a pleasure garden with chocolate fountains and fluffy pillow trees, but she could find a planet that was very similar to Earth and lead her people in starting a new world there, which would be an ongoing adventure as she, her allies and her people discovered and sought ways to overcome the various pitfalls along the way.

The Q-cap doesn't need to be raised for that, and it'd be a heck of a better story than "...And Elspeth the Power Princess waved her wand and made a paradise, complete with unicorns and candy bushes."

[Bastion]

Originally Posted By: Ptesan-Wi

Colour me among those not aware of the current policy. A bit over four months ago, I'd bumped PW from Psi 6 to Psi 7. Mind you, Psi 7 is a lot like Quantum 4 (on a good day, if the psiad has a tail wind and nobody too interested in pounding her into pudding), but still... yeah.

In PW's case, I've got a real simple solution. Since PW is currently at just a tad over two years in play rather than three, I'd like to simply freeze her at Psi 7 for the next four years, until 4 June 2014. I'd also freeze her from buying anything - mega-attribute, power level, whatever - that requires Psi 7 until 4 June 2011 (the three-year mark).

I request that PW be brought back down to Psi 6 or the I'll consider the Cap increased to 7 across the board.

As I said, I asked a couple of times already and was told 'no' (even while you and Dawn were still running the show). Frankly I don't care if we're all Q10 as long as we're all playing on the same page.

I've the XP saved up, either she drops to Psi 6 or I bump 'B' to Q7. I'm cool either way.

[Ptesan-Wi]

Already been contacted by the mod, already rolling her back to 6.

[Dauntless]

From the look of things, most of you folks feel that Q6 should be the upper limit for any character in this game. I find that I am more on Fox's side on this matter, and while I have considered raising my character's Q to 6, I'm in no particular rush on that. Mainly because I've been more interested in broadening my character's abilities then increasing her raw power. That said, I am going to take the middle road here, rather then one side or another.

I wouldn't mind if characters who have been running for several years, like Bastion, Elspeth, Ptesan-Wi, and so on, went to Q7, but I can understand the desire not to allow things to go to Q8. Q8 is the point of global, world changing powers, which can alter the story for everyone, rather then just a single player. Those powers sort of take control of the game away from the GM/ST/Mod, and give them to players. It's sort of like playing the Beyonder, Galactus, Guardian's of the Universe, rather then a PC at this point. That's fine, if that's what people want, but most people would prefer things not to get to that point in this game, I think.

However, with regards to Q7, its sort of for the same reason I weighed in on the discussion regarding XP. If it makes for a good story, and it makes sense for the character to go over the point, then why not allow it? Shoot, I sort of like the idea of some of the older PC's raising thier Q to 7. After all, the only problem power I see with regards to concerns of the rest of you, is Level 4 power, Quantum Authority, so simply disallow that power.