Aberrant: The Middle Children of History - Rules Questions

[SkyLion]

Nah, you are both not getting it right.

The chart clearly states that the number under the level is the number of extras it takes before boosting it to the next higher level.

So at Q6 it takes 2 extras to boost an L1 to an L2. Looking at L2 it takes 2 extras to make it an L3, and then 2 extras after that to jump it to L4.

This is in line with the standard rules for extras.

In other words, normally you can add 2 extras to an L1 power, making it an L3. So with L4 opening up at Q6, why would you not be able to add a third extra boosting it up? Only at that point you could actually add 2 new extras since the 3rd wouldnt jump it to 4 right away.

As for your comment Dawn, my thought was what if it wasnt mastery you were buying? Then you can have RQC, RQC, (making an L2 become L3). At that point Mastery (which jumps regardless) would make it an L4. If it wasn't mastery extra though you could actualy add 2 extras.

[SkyLion]

Nah, you are both not getting it right.

The chart clearly states that the number under the level is the number of extras it takes before boosting it to the next higher level.

So at Q6 it takes 2 extras to boost an L1 to an L2. Looking at L2 it takes 2 extras to make it an L3, and then 2 extras after that to jump it to L4.

This is in line with the standard rules for extras.

In other words, normally you can add 2 extras to an L1 power, making it an L3. So with L4 opening up at Q6, why would you not be able to add a third extra boosting it up? Only at that point you could actually add 2 new extras since the 3rd wouldnt jump it to 4 right away.

As for your comment Dawn, my thought was what if it wasnt mastery you were buying? Then you can have RQC, RQC, (making an L2 become L3). At that point Mastery (which jumps regardless) would make it an L4. If it wasn't mastery extra though you could actualy add 2 extras.

[Ptesan-Wi]

The_Fool: please see my post immediately preceeding yours.

[Ptesan-Wi]

The_Fool: please see my post immediately preceeding yours.

[SkyLion]

Ah...simul post...will read.

EDIT:

Okay I read it and the part that I am still not getting is, so long as one of them isn't mastery, at Q6, an L1 power shuold be able to have 6 extras.

2 to raise it to L2, then 2 more to raise it to L3, then another 2 more before it gets raised to L4.

Silly chart is confusing.

[SkyLion]

Ah...simul post...will read.

EDIT:

Okay I read it and the part that I am still not getting is, so long as one of them isn't mastery, at Q6, an L1 power shuold be able to have 6 extras.

2 to raise it to L2, then 2 more to raise it to L3, then another 2 more before it gets raised to L4.

Silly chart is confusing.

[Bastion]

Originally Posted By: The_Fool

The chart clearly states that the number under the level is the number of extras it takes before boosting it to the next higher level.
So at Q6 it takes 2 extras to boost an L1 to an L2. Looking at L2 it takes 2 extras to make it an L3, and then 2 extras after that to jump it to L4.

No Fool, the example below that chart derails your "I can have 6 extras on a Level 1 power." idea.

Read it more carefully.

[Bastion]

Originally Posted By: The_Fool

The chart clearly states that the number under the level is the number of extras it takes before boosting it to the next higher level.
So at Q6 it takes 2 extras to boost an L1 to an L2. Looking at L2 it takes 2 extras to make it an L3, and then 2 extras after that to jump it to L4.

No Fool, the example below that chart derails your "I can have 6 extras on a Level 1 power." idea.

Read it more carefully.

[SkyLion]

Can we just redo the chart to make it more clear? Because that example is screwy according to the RAW.

[SkyLion]

Can we just redo the chart to make it more clear? Because that example is screwy according to the RAW.

[Ptesan-Wi]

Fool:

No. The L-rating at the top of the chart refers to the STARTING LEVEL of the power. You do NOT get to double-dip the free extra sauce by nipping one at each level. After the first free extra (or second or third or whatever at Q-levels that we don't have), everything raises power levels from then on.

Done. End of story.

[Ptesan-Wi]

Fool:

No. The L-rating at the top of the chart refers to the STARTING LEVEL of the power. You do NOT get to double-dip the free extra sauce by nipping one at each level. After the first free extra (or second or third or whatever at Q-levels that we don't have), everything raises power levels from then on.

Done. End of story.

[Katalyst]

It's quite clear, I don't understand how you can't grasp it.

[Katalyst]

It's quite clear, I don't understand how you can't grasp it.

[SkyLion]

If it were that simple there would be no need for a chart. It would just simply state "At Q6 you get a free extra. At Q7 you get 2 freebies, etc."

But no, that's not what it says. It says, and I quote,

Quote:

"When a Nova of Quantum 1-5 buys a single extra for a power, that power moves up a level: A level 1 power now costs the same to buy and use as a level 2 power, and so on. This changes at higher Quantum. A nova can now buy more than one extra for a power, without changing it's quantum power level. The following chart shows the number of extras required to raise a power to the next higher level, based on the novas Quantum."

[SkyLion]

If it were that simple there would be no need for a chart. It would just simply state "At Q6 you get a free extra. At Q7 you get 2 freebies, etc."

But no, that's not what it says. It says, and I quote,

Quote:

"When a Nova of Quantum 1-5 buys a single extra for a power, that power moves up a level: A level 1 power now costs the same to buy and use as a level 2 power, and so on. This changes at higher Quantum. A nova can now buy more than one extra for a power, without changing it's quantum power level. The following chart shows the number of extras required to raise a power to the next higher level, based on the novas Quantum."

[Bastion]

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with you.

[Bastion]

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with you.

[SkyLion]

What? That is what it says. Direct quote from the book.

David, I would appreciate it if you would keep your comments on topic. If you don't have anything constructive to add and just want to say something snide or mean, I would ask that you please keep it to yourself.

[SkyLion]

What? That is what it says. Direct quote from the book.

David, I would appreciate it if you would keep your comments on topic. If you don't have anything constructive to add and just want to say something snide or mean, I would ask that you please keep it to yourself.

[Katalyst]

Originally Posted By: The_Fool

If it were that simple there would be no need for a chart. It would just simply state "At Q6 you get a free extra. At Q7 you get 2 freebies, etc."

But no, that's not what it says. It says, and I quote,

Quote:

"When a Nova of Quantum 1-5 buys a single extra for a power, that power moves up a level: A level 1 power now costs the same to buy and use as a level 2 power, and so on. This changes at higher Quantum. A nova can now buy more than one extra for a power, without changing it's quantum power level. The following chart shows the number of extras required to raise a power to the next higher level, based on the novas Quantum."

Yep that's true, no one is saying that is the case. You don't get a "free" extra, you just don't raise the power level of the power. If you haven't already bought an extra for the power you want to add another extra on. For a new power the first extra you get doesn't raise the power lvl and cost stays the same. The second extra raises the power level!


What the chart says is that if you have Q6 you can have two count them 1,2 extra's for a lvl 1,2,3 power. That's it. No more than that. Quite simple really if you just read it right!

[Katalyst]

Originally Posted By: The_Fool

If it were that simple there would be no need for a chart. It would just simply state "At Q6 you get a free extra. At Q7 you get 2 freebies, etc."

But no, that's not what it says. It says, and I quote,

Quote:

"When a Nova of Quantum 1-5 buys a single extra for a power, that power moves up a level: A level 1 power now costs the same to buy and use as a level 2 power, and so on. This changes at higher Quantum. A nova can now buy more than one extra for a power, without changing it's quantum power level. The following chart shows the number of extras required to raise a power to the next higher level, based on the novas Quantum."

Yep that's true, no one is saying that is the case. You don't get a "free" extra, you just don't raise the power level of the power. If you haven't already bought an extra for the power you want to add another extra on. For a new power the first extra you get doesn't raise the power lvl and cost stays the same. The second extra raises the power level!


What the chart says is that if you have Q6 you can have two count them 1,2 extra's for a lvl 1,2,3 power. That's it. No more than that. Quite simple really if you just read it right!

[SkyLion]

According to PW, Katalyst you are still incorrect. According to PW's interp, an L1 power can have 4 extras, an L2 can have 3, and an L3 2, discounting the effect of the mastery extra at any of those stages.

[SkyLion]

According to PW, Katalyst you are still incorrect. According to PW's interp, an L1 power can have 4 extras, an L2 can have 3, and an L3 2, discounting the effect of the mastery extra at any of those stages.

[Katalyst]

She may have that in her post, but it still is not possible for a lvl 1 power to have 4 extra's. Again a level 2 power at Q6 can only have 2 extra's. The same with a level 3 power. At level 4 one extra makes it a lvl 5. Now granted as I make this post PW is not here to either edit her post or say that I'm wrong.

The example listed clearly shows that. I don't understand why you refuse to accept that. There's no reason that this system can't work with your concept. Just accept it and move on.

[Katalyst]

She may have that in her post, but it still is not possible for a lvl 1 power to have 4 extra's. Again a level 2 power at Q6 can only have 2 extra's. The same with a level 3 power. At level 4 one extra makes it a lvl 5. Now granted as I make this post PW is not here to either edit her post or say that I'm wrong.

The example listed clearly shows that. I don't understand why you refuse to accept that. There's no reason that this system can't work with your concept. Just accept it and move on.

[Ptesan-Wi]

*sigh*

The following are the rules for the purposes of MCoH (and for any other game that follows what the rules actually say), and are not up for debate.

THE CHART OF EXTRAS

At Q1 through Q5:

A Level 1 power may have up to two Extras, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of two Extras at Level 3.

A Level 2 power may have one Extra, raising the level of the power up to Level 3.

A Level 3 power may have no Extras.

Level 4, 5 and 6 powers are not available.

At Q6:

A Level 1 power may have one "free" Extra; up to three subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of four total Extras at Level 4

A Level 2 power may have one "free" Extra; up to two subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of three total Extras at Level 4.

A Level 3 power may have one "free" Extra; one additional Extra may be added, raising the level of the power with two total Extras to Level 4.

A Level 4 power may have no Extras.

Level 5 and 6 powers are not available.

At Q7:

A Level 1 power may have up to two "free" Extras; up to three subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of five total Extras at Level 4

A Level 2 power may have one "free" Extra; up to two subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of three total Extras at Level 4.

A Level 3 power may have one "free" Extra; one additional Extra may be added, raising the level of the power with two total Extras to Level 4.

A Level 4 power may have one "free" Extra; no additional Extras may be added, and the level of the power remains Level 4.

Level 5 and 6 powers are not available.

At Q8:

A Level 1 power may have up to three "free" Extras; up to four subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of seven total Extras at Level 5

A Level 2 power may have up to two "free" Extras; up to three subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of five total Extras at Level 5.

A Level 3 power may have one "free" Extra; up to two additional Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of three total Extras at Level 5.

A Level 4 power may have one "free" Extra; one additional Extra may be added, raising the level of the power with two total Extras to Level 5.

A Level 5 power may have no Extras.

Level 6 powers are not available.

At Q9:

A Level 1 power may have up to four "free" Extras; up to four subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of eight total Extras at Level 5

A Level 2 power may have up to three "free" Extras; up to three subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of six total Extras at Level 5.

A Level 3 power may have up to two "free" Extras; up to two additional Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of four total Extras at Level 5.

A Level 4 power may have one "free" Extra; one additional Extra may be added, raising the level of the power with two total Extras to Level 5.

A Level 5 power may have one "free" Extra; no additional Extras may be added, and the level of the power remains Level 5.

Level 6 powers are not available.

At Q10:

A Level 1 power may have up to five "free" Extras; up to five subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of ten total Extras at Level 6

A Level 2 power may have up to four "free" Extras; up to four subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of eight total Extras at Level 6.

A Level 3 power may have up to three "free" Extras; up to three additional Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of six total Extras at Level 6.

A Level 4 power may have up to two "free" Extras; up to two additional Extras may be added, up to a maximum of four total Extras at Level 6.

A Level 5 power may have one "free" Extra; one additional Extra may be added, raising the level of the power with two total Extras to Level 6.

A Level 6 power may have no Extras.

"Free" Extras do not raise the level of a power; they do however cost an amount of NP or XP equivalent to that which would purchase a single dot of the power. Exception: Mastery. Each level of Mastery always raises the power's effective level by 1, even if the nova's Quantum score allows regular Extras without level change.

Note that Extras count as levels of a power for purpose of buying techniques – that is, someone with three levels of a power and two Extras can buy a total of five techniques.

Gaining Extras with Experience: A character may "upgrade" her powers by purchasing an Extra later in the game. The cost of doing so is equal to the total difference between the experience point costs of all the dots without the Extra and the cost of all the dots with the Extra, calculated as if the character had used experience points to purchase the power "from the ground up". A character may halve this cost by taking a point of permanent Taint at the time the Extra is purchased. Extras that don't raise the power to a new level cost the same as a single dot of the power at its current level: one nova point or three experience points for Level 1, three nova points or five experience points for Level 2, etc.

~FIN~

[Ptesan-Wi]

*sigh*

The following are the rules for the purposes of MCoH (and for any other game that follows what the rules actually say), and are not up for debate.

THE CHART OF EXTRAS

At Q1 through Q5:

A Level 1 power may have up to two Extras, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of two Extras at Level 3.

A Level 2 power may have one Extra, raising the level of the power up to Level 3.

A Level 3 power may have no Extras.

Level 4, 5 and 6 powers are not available.

At Q6:

A Level 1 power may have one "free" Extra; up to three subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of four total Extras at Level 4

A Level 2 power may have one "free" Extra; up to two subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of three total Extras at Level 4.

A Level 3 power may have one "free" Extra; one additional Extra may be added, raising the level of the power with two total Extras to Level 4.

A Level 4 power may have no Extras.

Level 5 and 6 powers are not available.

At Q7:

A Level 1 power may have up to two "free" Extras; up to three subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of five total Extras at Level 4

A Level 2 power may have one "free" Extra; up to two subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of three total Extras at Level 4.

A Level 3 power may have one "free" Extra; one additional Extra may be added, raising the level of the power with two total Extras to Level 4.

A Level 4 power may have one "free" Extra; no additional Extras may be added, and the level of the power remains Level 4.

Level 5 and 6 powers are not available.

At Q8:

A Level 1 power may have up to three "free" Extras; up to four subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of seven total Extras at Level 5

A Level 2 power may have up to two "free" Extras; up to three subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of five total Extras at Level 5.

A Level 3 power may have one "free" Extra; up to two additional Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of three total Extras at Level 5.

A Level 4 power may have one "free" Extra; one additional Extra may be added, raising the level of the power with two total Extras to Level 5.

A Level 5 power may have no Extras.

Level 6 powers are not available.

At Q9:

A Level 1 power may have up to four "free" Extras; up to four subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of eight total Extras at Level 5

A Level 2 power may have up to three "free" Extras; up to three subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of six total Extras at Level 5.

A Level 3 power may have up to two "free" Extras; up to two additional Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of four total Extras at Level 5.

A Level 4 power may have one "free" Extra; one additional Extra may be added, raising the level of the power with two total Extras to Level 5.

A Level 5 power may have one "free" Extra; no additional Extras may be added, and the level of the power remains Level 5.

Level 6 powers are not available.

At Q10:

A Level 1 power may have up to five "free" Extras; up to five subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of ten total Extras at Level 6

A Level 2 power may have up to four "free" Extras; up to four subsequent Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of eight total Extras at Level 6.

A Level 3 power may have up to three "free" Extras; up to three additional Extras may be added, each of which raise the level of the power, up to a maximum of six total Extras at Level 6.

A Level 4 power may have up to two "free" Extras; up to two additional Extras may be added, up to a maximum of four total Extras at Level 6.

A Level 5 power may have one "free" Extra; one additional Extra may be added, raising the level of the power with two total Extras to Level 6.

A Level 6 power may have no Extras.

"Free" Extras do not raise the level of a power; they do however cost an amount of NP or XP equivalent to that which would purchase a single dot of the power. Exception: Mastery. Each level of Mastery always raises the power's effective level by 1, even if the nova's Quantum score allows regular Extras without level change.

Note that Extras count as levels of a power for purpose of buying techniques – that is, someone with three levels of a power and two Extras can buy a total of five techniques.

Gaining Extras with Experience: A character may "upgrade" her powers by purchasing an Extra later in the game. The cost of doing so is equal to the total difference between the experience point costs of all the dots without the Extra and the cost of all the dots with the Extra, calculated as if the character had used experience points to purchase the power "from the ground up". A character may halve this cost by taking a point of permanent Taint at the time the Extra is purchased. Extras that don't raise the power to a new level cost the same as a single dot of the power at its current level: one nova point or three experience points for Level 1, three nova points or five experience points for Level 2, etc.

~FIN~

[Bastion]

According to the description, the "Merged" extra allows two novas to combine their powers together for one great big effect.

Question is, does this supersede the rule about only 5 successes being carried over to the Nova's damage pool?

So if two novas using a merged Q-bolt let fly and each gets 6 successes, is the damage added to the pool 5 or 12?

If not, it makes merged pretty useless for damaging powers, but damn near broken for powers like Shapeshift, Matter Creation and Matter Chameleon. Not that using for it damaging powers could cause a lot of fuss, but only damage powers have the 5 success rule (which sucks in a game focused too much on defense).

Thanks for clearing up the Extras problem that wasn't really a problem P-Dub.

[Bastion]

According to the description, the "Merged" extra allows two novas to combine their powers together for one great big effect.

Question is, does this supersede the rule about only 5 successes being carried over to the Nova's damage pool?

So if two novas using a merged Q-bolt let fly and each gets 6 successes, is the damage added to the pool 5 or 12?

If not, it makes merged pretty useless for damaging powers, but damn near broken for powers like Shapeshift, Matter Creation and Matter Chameleon. Not that using for it damaging powers could cause a lot of fuss, but only damage powers have the 5 success rule (which sucks in a game focused too much on defense).

Thanks for clearing up the Extras problem that wasn't really a problem P-Dub.

[Dawn OOC]

As PW said, that is the final statement on the matter. Any confusion about the matter should be cleared up without question; if a player finds themselves confused, please PM or otherwise privately contact a moderator for clarification.

And the following is also a final statement: any more arguing with the mods will be seen as a lack of cooperation with the mods and this board in general, and will be considered when that players asks for special rules or considerations.

[Dawn OOC]

As PW said, that is the final statement on the matter. Any confusion about the matter should be cleared up without question; if a player finds themselves confused, please PM or otherwise privately contact a moderator for clarification.

And the following is also a final statement: any more arguing with the mods will be seen as a lack of cooperation with the mods and this board in general, and will be considered when that players asks for special rules or considerations.

[Ptesan-Wi]

Bastion: that's a darned good question. I'm going to do some digging on it.

EDIT: The text of the Merged Extra certainly sounds like it does: "Each nova uses his power separately, with +2 difficulty (+1 if both have Merged). If both succeed, pool the successes to produce one jointly impressive result." I'd rather assume that the cap applies to each nova's pool, rather than to the joint result. So in your case of two novas Q-bolting via Merged and each with 6 successes, 10 successes would be added to the damage.

[Ptesan-Wi]

Bastion: that's a darned good question. I'm going to do some digging on it.

EDIT: The text of the Merged Extra certainly sounds like it does: "Each nova uses his power separately, with +2 difficulty (+1 if both have Merged). If both succeed, pool the successes to produce one jointly impressive result." I'd rather assume that the cap applies to each nova's pool, rather than to the joint result. So in your case of two novas Q-bolting via Merged and each with 6 successes, 10 successes would be added to the damage.

[Katalyst]

Thank you Pw you do indeed rock!

[Katalyst]

Thank you Pw you do indeed rock!

[SkyLion]

Thanks PW. That is way more clear than White Wolf's so-called "chart."

From theirs it had looked like a 6/4/2 spread at Q6 but your breakdown makes the 4/3/2 layout clear.

[SkyLion]

Thanks PW. That is way more clear than White Wolf's so-called "chart."

From theirs it had looked like a 6/4/2 spread at Q6 but your breakdown makes the 4/3/2 layout clear.

[Elspeth]

This is the only mention anywhere that I can find that says there is a limit on Quantum ratings, it is from PW in this thread, post #117878

Quote:

----Since we're currently limited to Q6, what that means for us is that for a Q6 character the first extra purchased for a L1, L2 or L3 power doesn't raise the level of the power (but does cost NP/XP equal to what a single dot of the power would cost).

I had mentioned to Mods back in the day when we had mods that I would like to increase quantum at some point. I was told that it would be considered.

Well that time has come. Unfortunately, we have no mods to make the call.

Consider that this game was intended to be a game about serious movers and shakers among the novas. Consider also that 400 xp has been earned since the game started. Consider finally that two years of real world time (and participation by Elspeth) have passed since the game began.

My intention with Elspeth is to tell the story of her saving her people by taking those willing to accompany her to a new planet. She will terraform that world and turn it into an Eden. In order to do that it requires Q8, lvl 5 powers. Geologic Supremacy, Climatic Supremacy, etc. That is my goal for the character.

So I propose that we allow Quantum to be increased based on specific time of participation in the game. My first choice would be 1 year per Quantum point, but I understand that some people might be skittish about people becoming too powerful too quickly, I mean at that rate someone could have Q10 after only FOUR years of writing. Crazy right? (That's being said tongue in cheek, btw.) Personally I don't plan to go to even Q9 with the character, but who knows after 3 or 4 years of writing for the character maybe I'll want to, or have story ideas that would make it interesting to do so.

If folks are really afraid of the higher Q ratings then I could suggest that above Q8, we space out the increase rate to every 2 years, that would mean in order to go to Q9 you would have to write in the setting for 4 years and Q10 would require 6 years of writing.

Consider also that when I say 1, 2, 4 or 6 years, I mean actually that long of the character being 'active' meaning that only after you had 12 months of exp awards (earned by participation) would you be eligible for your first Q increase. After 24 months of actual participation you would be eligible for a second Q increase.

I am serious about wanting to increase Elspeth's quantum and would like for that to be ok with the folks in MCoH. The stories that I'm am building towards require it. I would also like it to be set in writing rather than at the whim of some future mod or mods so that everyone knows where they stand in regards to increasing and what the requirements are to do so.

Keep in mind this is a shared world setting where one character is not allowed to do things that affect another character without their permission; so just because someone has a higher Q rating doesn't mean they can or will screw with other characters. As it stands right now Bastion could utterly destroy Elspeth in combat. That doesn't worry me however, since Dave isn't allow to write Bastion doing so without my permission. Same goes in reverse, Elspeth is a social monster, but I would not use that to mess with another character unless I worked directly with the author of the other character and planed it out jointly for some specific story purpose.

So I ask that everyone please weigh in on this, and give it consideration.

[Justin OOC]

As a player, I am against quantum scores exceeding 8 ever.

I would space the growth rate beyond 6 to 3 years of activity minimum per point, if that fast.

As the Moderator for MCOH, I think we should remain at quantum 6, and not go beyond it at all, but if that is the consensus of all the players, then we'll find a compromise that works for everyone. I personally don't see any reason to go beyond quantum 6 in this game. It's power enough.