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Aberrant: The Middle Children of History - Rules Questions


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  • 5 weeks later...
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Hey guys, remember that your characters get 5 influence points to spend, with none higher than a 3 at start of character.

My apologies to those I told 3 to, I misremembered.

Influences can be spent on arenas like Meida, Business, Police, Transportation, Health, Academics, Occult, Underworld, Street, High Society, Politics, or individual groups like Utopia, the Teragen, or the Abberants. Feel free to get as specific as you want. The more specific, the more each dot gets you from that smaller group.

Influences are all subject to Moderator approval. smile

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  • 3 weeks later...

What are the rules for purchasing powers? Must it be done 1 dot at a time? If so, how long must pass before a new dot may be purchased? Can we save our XP and just master the power outright? When may XP be spent or not spent?

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What are the rules for purchasing powers? Must it be done 1 dot at a time? If so, how long must pass before a new dot may be purchased? Can we save our XP and just master the power outright? When may XP be spent or not spent?

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Since it is mentioned in one of the threads that apotheosis is a theme here but only with the use of saved xp (ie no price breaks for chrysalis but you can use that as the IC reasoning).

So I would think you can save your xp and by more than one dot at a time.

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Since it is mentioned in one of the threads that apotheosis is a theme here but only with the use of saved xp (ie no price breaks for chrysalis but you can use that as the IC reasoning).

So I would think you can save your xp and by more than one dot at a time.

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Speculation doesn't interest me. I'm asking for facts.

Not maybes, or perhaps, or 'I would thinks'. This is where we ask questions about the rules to be answered with facts so we don't make mistakes.

Trust me, thinking gets you nowhere around here. It's best to know for sure so someone doesn't snivel and whine about it later.

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Speculation doesn't interest me. I'm asking for facts.

Not maybes, or perhaps, or 'I would thinks'. This is where we ask questions about the rules to be answered with facts so we don't make mistakes.

Trust me, thinking gets you nowhere around here. It's best to know for sure so someone doesn't snivel and whine about it later.

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As I understand it (as the numbers Mod):

* You can spend your XP whenever you sodding well feel like it, but...

* No more than one dot in any given trait may be purchased in a single month. The exception to this is the aforementioned Apotheosis for 2ndGen and 3rdGen characters (which happens only one in the nova's lifetime, so use it well), or Chrysalis for Terat characters (of any generation).

* Pre-approvals are not needed for spending your XP on standard book stuff within the standard parameters laid out in the MCoH Orientation; however, said purchases are subject to Mod review. Purchases for anything that isn't book-standard or is listed in the Orientation as an approval item need to be run by the Mods first.

* Influence is a special case; after the initial allotment, only the first dot in any given Influence may be purchased with XP. Further increases in Influence are gain by devoting Influence dots to growing said Influence (as explained in the MCoH Orientation).

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As I understand it (as the numbers Mod):

* You can spend your XP whenever you sodding well feel like it, but...

* No more than one dot in any given trait may be purchased in a single month. The exception to this is the aforementioned Apotheosis for 2ndGen and 3rdGen characters (which happens only one in the nova's lifetime, so use it well), or Chrysalis for Terat characters (of any generation).

* Pre-approvals are not needed for spending your XP on standard book stuff within the standard parameters laid out in the MCoH Orientation; however, said purchases are subject to Mod review. Purchases for anything that isn't book-standard or is listed in the Orientation as an approval item need to be run by the Mods first.

* Influence is a special case; after the initial allotment, only the first dot in any given Influence may be purchased with XP. Further increases in Influence are gain by devoting Influence dots to growing said Influence (as explained in the MCoH Orientation).

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May a player purchase multiple enhancements for the same Mega-Attribute more than once per month?

What about enhancements that may be purchased multiple times (quickness for example), is there a limit to the number of times those may be purchased? Can a character have Quickness x21 & Enhanced Initiative x15?

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May a player purchase multiple enhancements for the same Mega-Attribute more than once per month?

What about enhancements that may be purchased multiple times (quickness for example), is there a limit to the number of times those may be purchased? Can a character have Quickness x21 & Enhanced Initiative x15?

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I know I am not a mod, so this isn't official (don't bash me okay) for this game, but there is nothing in the rules that states a limit on how many times you can buy "multiple level" enhancments. If thats how you want to spend your xp there isnt anything wrong with it. However for things like quickness, it becomes expensive quick in QP terms, and often you dont need many levels to be crazy effective. As Courier pointed out to me once, quickness is lethally effective, and even the big T only has 3 levels of it.

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I know I am not a mod, so this isn't official (don't bash me okay) for this game, but there is nothing in the rules that states a limit on how many times you can buy "multiple level" enhancments. If thats how you want to spend your xp there isnt anything wrong with it. However for things like quickness, it becomes expensive quick in QP terms, and often you dont need many levels to be crazy effective. As Courier pointed out to me once, quickness is lethally effective, and even the big T only has 3 levels of it.

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True. As an example however, in my TT game I limit the number of times an enhancement can be purchased to a value of the Mega-Attribute it's attached to.

So if you have Mega-Wits 2 you can only have Quickness x2. Simply because Mega-Wits 1 with Quickness x20 seems to me that your moving far faster than you Mega 1 score should be able to keep up with.

It also prevents asswipes from buying one dot in Mega-Wits and not bothering with anything else but massive Quickness and Enhanced Initiative purchases. A Node 5 and a Q-Pool of 90+ go a long way. I prevent that in my games if at all possible. Depends on the players though. The more responsible they are the less I have to invoke rules like that.

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True. As an example however, in my TT game I limit the number of times an enhancement can be purchased to a value of the Mega-Attribute it's attached to.

So if you have Mega-Wits 2 you can only have Quickness x2. Simply because Mega-Wits 1 with Quickness x20 seems to me that your moving far faster than you Mega 1 score should be able to keep up with.

It also prevents asswipes from buying one dot in Mega-Wits and not bothering with anything else but massive Quickness and Enhanced Initiative purchases. A Node 5 and a Q-Pool of 90+ go a long way. I prevent that in my games if at all possible. Depends on the players though. The more responsible they are the less I have to invoke rules like that.

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Originally Posted By: The_Fool
Although maybe Mega attribute +1 since t has Quickx3 but Mega Wits of 2. Of course it's not as if White Wolf cheats on their NPC write-ups all the time... :sarcasm:

What are you talking about? What has M-Wits 2 but Quickness x3?

<----- I'm over here.

Your over there somewhere ------------------------------->

Focus.
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Originally Posted By: The_Fool
Although maybe Mega attribute +1 since t has Quickx3 but Mega Wits of 2. Of course it's not as if White Wolf cheats on their NPC write-ups all the time... :sarcasm:

What are you talking about? What has M-Wits 2 but Quickness x3?

<----- I'm over here.

Your over there somewhere ------------------------------->

Focus.
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Here's another rules question.

Looking at the chart for extras at Q6, it would seem one could have a great deal of extras on powers that are lower to start from, though I may be mistaken as this chart can be confusing.

Heres an example of what I was thinking of:

Immolate starts at L2. 1 dot with extras area effect and burning. Since the first extra doesn't raise the power level we pay the same as a dot: 6 xp. The second extra raises the dot to L3 so we pay 9 xp.

That seems straight forward. But now what if on top of that I want to add reduced q cost and mastery? When you normally buy an extra at Q5 or lower you just add in all the extras and determine what the final cost is for that dot. So here we are with the first dot that ultimately is going to be L4, so we pay 12 xp for it. Then the +6 for the area extra that didnt raise it to L3 and then +9 for the the RQC extra that didn't raise it from L3 (since L3 gets two before it ups the level).

So the final cost in this accounting for an area effect, burning, reduced q cost, mastery level immolate at 1 dot costs, 27 xp for the first dot, and then 9 for the second, 18 for the third etc...

Did I get that right?

Or how about this one: What if I just want the burning, RQC and mastery on the immolate? It starts at L2, the burning costs 6 xp, but then the RQC makes it L3 and then mastery immediately jumps it to L4. So the price should be...12+6 = 18 xp for the first dot and then L4 prices after that?

If I decided to buy RQC twice, then burning at L3 without raising a level and then mastery does that mean I would pay 0 QP to activate it, since it would be L4 = 4 QP/2= 2/2= 1/2= .5 round down to zero?

Also, the chart says at Q6 a single extra will raise an L4 power to an L5 but this doesn't make sense as you need Q8 to have an L5 power. Shouldn't the chart for extras say 0 or N/A under L4-Q6?

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Here's another rules question.

Looking at the chart for extras at Q6, it would seem one could have a great deal of extras on powers that are lower to start from, though I may be mistaken as this chart can be confusing.

Heres an example of what I was thinking of:

Immolate starts at L2. 1 dot with extras area effect and burning. Since the first extra doesn't raise the power level we pay the same as a dot: 6 xp. The second extra raises the dot to L3 so we pay 9 xp.

That seems straight forward. But now what if on top of that I want to add reduced q cost and mastery? When you normally buy an extra at Q5 or lower you just add in all the extras and determine what the final cost is for that dot. So here we are with the first dot that ultimately is going to be L4, so we pay 12 xp for it. Then the +6 for the area extra that didnt raise it to L3 and then +9 for the the RQC extra that didn't raise it from L3 (since L3 gets two before it ups the level).

So the final cost in this accounting for an area effect, burning, reduced q cost, mastery level immolate at 1 dot costs, 27 xp for the first dot, and then 9 for the second, 18 for the third etc...

Did I get that right?

Or how about this one: What if I just want the burning, RQC and mastery on the immolate? It starts at L2, the burning costs 6 xp, but then the RQC makes it L3 and then mastery immediately jumps it to L4. So the price should be...12+6 = 18 xp for the first dot and then L4 prices after that?

If I decided to buy RQC twice, then burning at L3 without raising a level and then mastery does that mean I would pay 0 QP to activate it, since it would be L4 = 4 QP/2= 2/2= 1/2= .5 round down to zero?

Also, the chart says at Q6 a single extra will raise an L4 power to an L5 but this doesn't make sense as you need Q8 to have an L5 power. Shouldn't the chart for extras say 0 or N/A under L4-Q6?

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The chart will be reviewed and fixed, if required.

As for your calculation, you don't get a free extra per level. You get it per power. So if you have Immolate, a level two, you get one extra that won't raise the level. You get another one that will raise the level, making it a level three power. Mastery will make it a level 4. So with the set up you want, you can have RQC twice or RQC once with burning, plus Mastery and all its bonuses and inherant abilities.

In theory, with RQC twice with Mastery would create a power with 0 quantum cost. Whether the mods will allow such a thing is another matter. smile

Hope that helped.

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The chart will be reviewed and fixed, if required.

As for your calculation, you don't get a free extra per level. You get it per power. So if you have Immolate, a level two, you get one extra that won't raise the level. You get another one that will raise the level, making it a level three power. Mastery will make it a level 4. So with the set up you want, you can have RQC twice or RQC once with burning, plus Mastery and all its bonuses and inherant abilities.

In theory, with RQC twice with Mastery would create a power with 0 quantum cost. Whether the mods will allow such a thing is another matter. smile

Hope that helped.

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Originally Posted By: The_Fool
Here's another rules question.

Looking at the chart for extras at Q6, it would seem one could have a great deal of extras on powers that are lower to start from, though I may be mistaken as this chart can be confusing.

Heres an example of what I was thinking of:

Immolate starts at L2. 1 dot with extras area effect and burning. Since the first extra doesn't raise the power level we pay the same as a dot: 6 xp. The second extra raises the dot to L3 so we pay 9 xp.

That seems straight forward. But now what if on top of that I want to add reduced q cost and mastery? When you normally buy an extra at Q5 or lower you just add in all the extras and determine what the final cost is for that dot. So here we are with the first dot that ultimately is going to be L4, so we pay 12 xp for it. Then the +6 for the area extra that didnt raise it to L3 and then +9 for the the RQC extra that didn't raise it from L3 (since L3 gets two before it ups the level).

In the example in the APG on page 120 it shows that buying the first extra for a lvl 1 power doesn't raise it's level. Adding a second extra raise's the power lvl to 2. You can't add a third extra which would make it a lvl 3 power unless have Q9.

As for the cost of adding an extra with xp read page 230 of the Core book.

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Originally Posted By: The_Fool
Here's another rules question.

Looking at the chart for extras at Q6, it would seem one could have a great deal of extras on powers that are lower to start from, though I may be mistaken as this chart can be confusing.

Heres an example of what I was thinking of:

Immolate starts at L2. 1 dot with extras area effect and burning. Since the first extra doesn't raise the power level we pay the same as a dot: 6 xp. The second extra raises the dot to L3 so we pay 9 xp.

That seems straight forward. But now what if on top of that I want to add reduced q cost and mastery? When you normally buy an extra at Q5 or lower you just add in all the extras and determine what the final cost is for that dot. So here we are with the first dot that ultimately is going to be L4, so we pay 12 xp for it. Then the +6 for the area extra that didnt raise it to L3 and then +9 for the the RQC extra that didn't raise it from L3 (since L3 gets two before it ups the level).

In the example in the APG on page 120 it shows that buying the first extra for a lvl 1 power doesn't raise it's level. Adding a second extra raise's the power lvl to 2. You can't add a third extra which would make it a lvl 3 power unless have Q9.

As for the cost of adding an extra with xp read page 230 of the Core book.

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Katalyst,

You got it half-right. At Q6, adding one extra to a Level 1 power doesn't raise the power level (but does cost NP/XP equal to what a single dot of the power would cost). Adding a second extra bumps it up to a Level 2 power. A third extra would make it Level 3, and a fourth would make it Level 4. A fifth would make it Level 5, but you can't have a Level 5 power at Q6.

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Katalyst,

You got it half-right. At Q6, adding one extra to a Level 1 power doesn't raise the power level (but does cost NP/XP equal to what a single dot of the power would cost). Adding a second extra bumps it up to a Level 2 power. A third extra would make it Level 3, and a fourth would make it Level 4. A fifth would make it Level 5, but you can't have a Level 5 power at Q6.

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I need to revise my post above. In the AGP on page 120 in the Quantum and Extra's part there is an example of how a power changes with your quantum. The example uses the power bioluminescence a level 1 power and Q6. The first extra is free, the second raises it to level 2. A third extra at Q6 is not possible as the chart says you can have 2 extra's at Q6. If you look you need a Q9 to have 3 extra's for a level 3 power.

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I need to revise my post above. In the AGP on page 120 in the Quantum and Extra's part there is an example of how a power changes with your quantum. The example uses the power bioluminescence a level 1 power and Q6. The first extra is free, the second raises it to level 2. A third extra at Q6 is not possible as the chart says you can have 2 extra's at Q6. If you look you need a Q9 to have 3 extra's for a level 3 power.

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Katalyst, you're mis-reading the example. It says:

"Many years later, she rises to Quantum 7. If she adds a third Extra, the Bioluminescence power will become a Level 3 power. She cannot add a third Extra without boosting it that way until she reaches Quantum 9."

I'm going to follow this up with a post about a number of things, including this issue.

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Katalyst, you're mis-reading the example. It says:

"Many years later, she rises to Quantum 7. If she adds a third Extra, the Bioluminescence power will become a Level 3 power. She cannot add a third Extra without boosting it that way until she reaches Quantum 9."

I'm going to follow this up with a post about a number of things, including this issue.

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Various answers to various questions:

* The multiple-instances-of-an-Enhancement thing: I need to check with MCoH Mod on this one, but I lean *very* much in favor of limiting iterations of an Enhancement to the dots in the governing Mega-Attribute. (i.e., with Mega-Wits 3, one could have no more than three instances of Quickness.)

* The multiple-instances-of-an-Enhancement-purchased-in-a-month thing: No. Buying (for example) instances of Quickness is very much like buying dots in a power (albeit without the multiplied XP cost); increasing it by more than one dot in a month isn't kosher (outside of things like Apotheosis and Chrysalis).

* The free-extras-at-Q6 thing: This one involves the chart on p 120 of the Players Guide that is often mis-read. Here goes...

----First of all, the numbers in that chart do not represent a cap on extras. What they do represent is how many extras it takes to raise a given power by a level.

----Since we're currently limited to Q6, what that means for us is that for a Q6 character the first extra purchased for a L1, L2 or L3 power doesn't raise the level of the power (but does cost NP/XP equal to what a single dot of the power would cost).

----Extras beyond the first one for L1, L2 and L3 powers do raise the level of the power by one. Thus at Q6, an L1 power with two extras becomes L2, an L2 power with two extras becomes L3, and an L3 power with two extras becomes L4.

----As L4 powers don't get a "free" extra, any extra applied would raise them to L5... which you can't have at Q6.

----You can dump as many extras on a power as you care to, until the thing hits the level cap dictated by your Quantum rating. So at Q6 you could indeed take a L1 power and add four extras (including the "free" one) to the sodding thing, bumping it up to L4. It'd cost you dearly to do so: 8NP or 12XP for the first dot (1NP or 3XP for the "free" extra plus 7NP or 9XP for the L4 power), and then 7NP or 9 x current level of XP for every dot thereafter. Hope those extras are worth it....

* The multiple-instances-of-RQC thing: See the chart in the MCoH Orientation Thread.

* Gaining Extras with Experience: A character may "upgrade" her powers by purchasing an extra later in the game. The cost of doing so is equal to the total difference between the experience point costs of all the dots without the Extra and the cost of all the dots with the Extra, calculated as if the character had used experience points to purchase the power "from the ground up". A character may halve this cost by taking a point of permanent Taint at the time the Extra is purchased. Extras that don't raise the power to a new level cost the same as a single dot of the power at its current level: one nova point or three experience points for Level 1, three nova points or five experience points for Level 2, etc.

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Various answers to various questions:

* The multiple-instances-of-an-Enhancement thing: I need to check with MCoH Mod on this one, but I lean *very* much in favor of limiting iterations of an Enhancement to the dots in the governing Mega-Attribute. (i.e., with Mega-Wits 3, one could have no more than three instances of Quickness.)

* The multiple-instances-of-an-Enhancement-purchased-in-a-month thing: No. Buying (for example) instances of Quickness is very much like buying dots in a power (albeit without the multiplied XP cost); increasing it by more than one dot in a month isn't kosher (outside of things like Apotheosis and Chrysalis).

* The free-extras-at-Q6 thing: This one involves the chart on p 120 of the Players Guide that is often mis-read. Here goes...

----First of all, the numbers in that chart do not represent a cap on extras. What they do represent is how many extras it takes to raise a given power by a level.

----Since we're currently limited to Q6, what that means for us is that for a Q6 character the first extra purchased for a L1, L2 or L3 power doesn't raise the level of the power (but does cost NP/XP equal to what a single dot of the power would cost).

----Extras beyond the first one for L1, L2 and L3 powers do raise the level of the power by one. Thus at Q6, an L1 power with two extras becomes L2, an L2 power with two extras becomes L3, and an L3 power with two extras becomes L4.

----As L4 powers don't get a "free" extra, any extra applied would raise them to L5... which you can't have at Q6.

----You can dump as many extras on a power as you care to, until the thing hits the level cap dictated by your Quantum rating. So at Q6 you could indeed take a L1 power and add four extras (including the "free" one) to the sodding thing, bumping it up to L4. It'd cost you dearly to do so: 8NP or 12XP for the first dot (1NP or 3XP for the "free" extra plus 7NP or 9XP for the L4 power), and then 7NP or 9 x current level of XP for every dot thereafter. Hope those extras are worth it....

* The multiple-instances-of-RQC thing: See the chart in the MCoH Orientation Thread.

* Gaining Extras with Experience: A character may "upgrade" her powers by purchasing an extra later in the game. The cost of doing so is equal to the total difference between the experience point costs of all the dots without the Extra and the cost of all the dots with the Extra, calculated as if the character had used experience points to purchase the power "from the ground up". A character may halve this cost by taking a point of permanent Taint at the time the Extra is purchased. Extras that don't raise the power to a new level cost the same as a single dot of the power at its current level: one nova point or three experience points for Level 1, three nova points or five experience points for Level 2, etc.

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