Rama Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->(Allison @ Aug 23 2006, 07:40 PM) *Ironic that, if one were to apply the same standards of proof that you try to for evolution, then 'intelligent design' falls far shorter, with far more gaps and holes in it. smile.gif<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Not to mention gravity, atomic theory, etc. Keep in mind that those big theories also fall short by these kinds of standards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Just realized I missed this one...The burden of proof I request (observation) is merely sciences own. Evolution in the sense of apes to humans can't be proven anymore than a Christian can prove the Earth and Universe were created in 6 days...Also those big theories...we can observe gravity (as was brought up before) but we dont understand what exactly is going on. With nuclear theory especially we only have a working model. It works for us but has been contiuously revised the more we learn. Like Agent J from Men in Black we have no way of knowing what we will know tommorow. I love that about life...the mystery. When we solve one there is always another waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack-in-the-Green Posted August 27, 2006 Author Share Posted August 27, 2006 Between one thing and another, I don't have time to keep up with this game any more - at least there's a few new players now, so I won't be causing too much damage by leaving. /c:I'll specifically mention that I don't have any problem with Jack being used as an NPC, however Narrator sees fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack-in-the-Green Posted August 27, 2006 Author Share Posted August 27, 2006 I posted in War Councils, so as not to leave that thread hanging, and to sort of indicate where Jack plans to go with his ideas. In Debt Collection, he can just act as would best advance Narrator's plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narrator Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Quote:I posted in War Councils, so as not to leave that thread hanging, and to sort of indicate where Jack plans to go with his ideas. In Debt Collection, he can just act as would best advance Narrator's plot. <!--coloro:#ff6600--><span style="color:#ff6600"><!--/coloro-->You will be missed....have a Great one.. <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thousand Whispers Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Quote:<!--quoteo(post=898:date=Aug 26 2006, 06:22 PM:name=Jack-in-the-Green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack-in-the-Green @ Aug 26 2006, 06:22 PM) ←</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I posted in War Councils, so as not to leave that thread hanging, and to sort of indicate where Jack plans to go with his ideas. In Debt Collection, he can just act as would best advance Narrator's plot. <!--coloro:#ff6600--><span style="color:#ff6600"><!--/coloro-->You will be missed....have a Great one.. <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Gleep...indeed! Sorry to see you go, Jack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Chronos Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Come back soon (or at least when you can) Jack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Chronos Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Hmm, I wrote this several days ago but didn't post. I'll do so now. Quote:Also those big theories...we can observe gravity (as was brought up before) but we dont understand what exactly is going on. With nuclear theory especially we only have a working model. It works for us but has been contiuously revised the more we learn?Let?s not confuse Gravity the Theory with Gravity the Fact. Gravity the Theory has issues, but you are correct in any replacement for the theory of Gravity will also need to take into account our previous observations.Quote:Evolution in the sense of apes to humans can't be proven anymore than a Christian can prove the Earth and Universe were created in 6 days...I can?t prove this rock I?m holding will fall to the ground if I drop it, but that doesn?t mean the theory of gravity shouldn?t be taught in schools.And this is such a tiny part of Evolution that it's a pointless argument. Even if we assume humans were seeded by aliens and originally came from another planet (or whatever), the vast bulk of the model explains the vast bulk of the rest of the biological world. Eventually we probably will find things that the model doesn?t work for and will have to make adjustments, but that day may be a long time coming. Contrast that with Gravity?s issues (Dark Matter, Dark Energy) or Atomic?s (Quantum theory, various others) and this is why I?m claiming Evolution is the stronger theory. The theory fits, it predicts a ton of stuff that we can look for and find is correct. It is repeatable in that we can run tests on quick-generation animals in labs and see the results. We?ve even created the occasional new species and seen evidence of speciation in the wild. Better still, it matches the other theories (i.e. if Evolution is wrong then so is carbon dating, genetic manipulation & analysis, disease treatment, archaeology, geology, math, biochemistry, animal husbandry, physics, etc). All of these fields interlock and support each other, and the models have been painstakingly matched against the real world for a very long time by a very large number of people. Every time you flip a light switch you are proving that science works as it claims.But let?s assume new evidence shows up and the Evolution the Theory has some enough faults and problems that it needs replacing in 50 years. Whatever replaces it will still have to account for the everything else? the same genes doing the same things for mammals, the extremely high levels of shared DNA between the various apes and ourselves, the shared errors and design flaws, similarities in neonatal development and reactions to various drugs, the mutation rates matching the geological record, etc. AFAICT, whatever replaces the Theory of Evolution is still going to claim that man and ape are closely related. For example, if we find evidence humans are the exception and we were genetically engineered by aliens, then the next question is going to be, ?genetically engineered from what?? and that leads us right back.Quote:The burden of proof I request (observation) is merely sciences own. ...Direct observation is not a requirement in science. No one has ever seen a black hole, or an event horizon. No one saw the craters form on the moon, but we can judge how big a rock created them anyway. The observations that require us to have a common ancestor with the apes (as opposed to coming from them) come from (among many other things) our extreme similarities in our DNA structure. This is the ?crater? that demands a "rock" at some point in the past. It is possible to claim the crater was created by something other than a rock, and maybe at some point someone will get proof, but claiming there is no crater is a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rama Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 I agree. Everything on this planet that has DNA is related. I wonder if the DNA itself didn't come from outer space (aliens or not). All of life is based on its permutations. I think what I was trying to say is that the theory of evolution doesn't disprove a creator/designer. My personal beliefs lie somewhere in between. I see no reason why creation and evolution have to be opposing theories. But then as an intelligent, designing, creating, evolving being I am somewhat biased.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Richard Thorne Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Quote:For example, if we find evidence humans are the exception and we were genetically engineered by aliens, then the next question is going to be, ?genetically engineered from what?? and that leads us right back. Wouldn't the next logical question actually be "So how did the aliens come into their present form?" instead?I mean, if we answer our own creation as being the 'fault' of some other being, then where did that being come from?Quote:<!--coloro:#3333FF--><span style="color:#3333FF"><!--/coloro-->"While I?d greatly prefer not to use them, I?d like Kara to start training people in the use of the orbs, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Yay! Which one do I get? I think the Justice sword would be good for a Jedi - all I have to do is figure out how to plug it into my lightsaber ... :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Chronos Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Quote:I agree. Everything on this planet that has DNA is related. I wonder if the DNA itself didn't come from outer space (aliens or not).Unclear, not enough data in evidence. Everything on the planet uses the same DNA ?language?, which means it was developed once and then took over the world. The best guess that I?ve heard is that something else came before DNA and was then exterminated. Whatever came before DNA is long gone, and we are now only looking at it?s complicated final project. This is sort of like the situation with the human eye, except unlike the eye we don?t have creatures around with some of the intermediate steps. Quote:I think what I was trying to say is that the theory of evolution doesn't disprove a creator/designer. My personal beliefs lie somewhere in between. I see no reason why creation and evolution have to be opposing theories. But then as an intelligent, designing, creating, evolving being I am somewhat biased.... It is what we want to believe, but that says more about us I think. Quote:<!--quoteo(post=918:date=Aug 29 2006, 12:18 PM:name=Chronos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chronos @ Aug 29 2006, 12:18 PM) ←</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For example, if we find evidence humans are the exception and we were genetically engineered by aliens, then the next question is going to be, ?genetically engineered from what?? and that leads us right back. Wouldn't the next logical question actually be "So how did the aliens come into their present form?" instead? I mean, if we answer our own creation as being the 'fault' of some other being, then where did that being come from? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->If we ever find evidence that something else started us, then we can try to address that answer at the time. Tell me what the evidence is and I will try to build from that an idea of what happened. However currently there is nothing on the table suggesting it is the case and much that says it isn?t. Quote:<!--quoteo(post=916:date=Aug 29 2006, 11:09 AM:name=Chronos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chronos @ Aug 29 2006, 11:09 AM) ←</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#3333FF--><span style="color:#3333FF"><!--/coloro-->"While I?d greatly prefer not to use them, I?d like Kara to start training people in the use of the orbs, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Yay! Which one do I get? I think the Justice sword would be good for a Jedi - all I have to do is figure out how to plug it into my lightsaber ... :devil: <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I suspect that one will go to Eve. She has used it before and has the most need of any of us to be immune to the ban. She is also already our information source and her having it would mean she ?couldn?t be unfair? to our enemies? something that most of the rest of us intend to be. I.e. I don?t think you want to be in the position where you can only use a lightsaber if the other guy already has one. So Eve loses nothing by having it and gains a whole lot. I suspect you might be a good match for the Security Orb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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