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Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith
Originally Posted By: Doctor Nova Madigan
I have a feeling, and it's something I cannot quantify, that there is more to this situation than anyone knows. The pieces of the puzzle don't add up to a whole picture, and they don't fit together correctly anyway. It's not tidy. There's no solid cause and effect, or motive and action. I am left wondering why Timeslip did the things that she did, and there is no motive or compulsion or sequence of events--no matter how byzantine--that I can hypothesize which would re-create what actually happened.
And so the conspiracy theories start. And of course one wouldn’t want to give undo weight to something as slight as a trial and the judgment there of, especially when compared against something as solid as an unquantified feeling not shared even by the accused. Excuse me, “the convicted”.


You know what? I wasn't even talking to you. If you want to be rude to me, talk to the hand. I don't know you from Adam.
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Okay, Matryoshka...

You're clearly dumber than a bag of rocks, which is why I can't comprehend whatever passed for a pun in that little statement; my mind can't comprehend that level of stupidity.

Sandcaster,

What do I think? Timeslip got what she asked for, and skidaddled 'cause she didn't like it. What do you want me to say? The Project is full of spooks who use and abuse novas until they break, then stash them in Bahrain?

I'm sorry if I'm a little terse about the Teragen. Singularity was a nova supremacist in his own little Buddhist way, and it got up my goat that he dragged my aunt down with him.

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Careful, Tawny. If he likes you more than your aunt, you might be beating him away with a big stick before you know it. wink

As far as Timeslip goes... I'm sure she's fully aware of what she's done, and the repercussions, and given her identity and affiliation, I'm not sure it would've mattered either way what verdict was delivered. It was a lose-lose situation for her, I think.

She helped me once, gave me back something important even though she didn't know me. Wherever she is, I honestly hope she's happy. It's cold comfort for those of us left to deal with the fallout if/when this happens again, but I've more or less resigned myself to the fact that it would've happened with someone, at some point. Maybe she knew that. Maybe we'll never know.

In any case, dolls, they're warning us to cut OpNet connections before takeoff, so I'm off for now.

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If your aunt's aim with darts was as good as her aim with men, I congratulate you on your having inherited a "like new" dartboard with a picture of my lantern-jawed mug on it.

Really, I understand. The Project would prefer that the only sex lives their employees had was confined to Singapore ladyboy bordellos, so you've got to get your masturbation fodder wherever you can. Enjoy.

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Originally Posted By: Doctor Nova Madigan
Nachos? Dayum. Ring me up. Rev, I'm in Cleveland again. We should hook up and talk sometime.


Yeah, sure. What are you doing back in Cleveland? Miss the Drew Carey re-runs?

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By the way, thanks again for not murdering Neil.


Making you cry would have certainly been the worst crime I could have commited to date.

See ya roun' Blinx.
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Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith
Post hoc ergo propter hocAfter this, therefore because of this.

I think Jager is known to be mysterious, sometimes for the purpose of being mysterious.

Occam's Razor. Jager was seen in pursuit of Timeslip; they were spotted in brief glimpses by radar, lightships, amateur sightings, and such damned well into South America, with her flying at several Machs and him popping in and out behind in that bizarre way of his, before they simply vanished. Timeslip was known to have the ability to travel - with passengers, willing or unwilling - to alternate timelines. Jager has, while an active member of the WCK, never gone so long without showing up. And I'll bet that if you could get past the wall of PR obfuscation that Cade is throwing up, you'd find out that the Knights are thinking the same.

That said, thanks for remindimg me why I disliked the Project: the oh-so superior attitude of members like you, Troll, whenever one of us unaffiliated, bottom-dwelling scum would put forth an opinion that didn't come from your PR shop. Go peddle your Latin elsewhere; I'm not buying.
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Originally Posted By: Tawny 'Codex' March
Sandcaster,

What do I think? Timeslip got what she asked for, and skidaddled 'cause she didn't like it. What do you want me to say? The Project is full of spooks who use and abuse novas until they break, then stash them in Bahrain?

I'm sorry if I'm a little terse about the Teragen. Singularity was a nova supremacist in his own little Buddhist way, and it got up my goat that he dragged my aunt down with him.


Actually, I was more or less trying to get a feel for where the Project is these days, beyond anti-Teragen statements and the kind of thing that Dr. Troll spouts from time to time. They've been pretty tight-lipped ever since Ibiza.

As for your aunt... you know, Terat or not, she's helped a lot of people. When I was with the Knights, she offered up her assistance as an auxilliary on countless occasions, and did some really incredible, caring, above-and-beyond things. Singularity... well, I wouldn't call him "outgoing", but he would pitch in on occasion in his very quiet way, too. I know you aren't happy with the path she has taken, and I can't claim that I'm exactly thrilled with it, but she's not some murdering terrorist like Geryon or Timeslip. Maybe - just maybe - you should cut her a little slack.
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Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur. (Anything said in Latin sounds profound.)

It's always factions. People seem to forget that most problems are the result of individuals. Sure, they may claim association with a faction but in the end the fault of those actions should lie on the shoulders of the individual who made those problems come to pass.

Do you think it matters if we are Teragen, Utopian, Elite, or what ever? No. The truth is that we as individuals have been given the power to make or break the world as we see fit. That's quite a lot to place on the shoulders of simple human beings (we all started as simple men and women). We all, I'm sure, have different perspectives on what we feel is the right thing to do. Allow me an example:

Sandcaster in a hostage situation would prefer to rescue the hostage and see to it the suspect is brought to court for his crimes and tried under the law.

I, in that same situation, would prefer to rescue the hostage and shoot the suspect to save us all the headache and months of CNN interviews.

We both believe that our way is the right way, but is nova society, or Utopia, or the Teragen to blame for how she and I think? Certainly not. We stand as individuals capable of our own thoughts, decisions. The sole responsibility of our actions, especially as novas, falls on our shoulders alone.

The Teragen, Utopia, and whatever other faction you can think of are merely ways for us to provide kinship with people like ourselves in a world where, let's face it, we're a bit freaky. Procyon would brave the fires of hell for a better tomorrow, one that includes baselines and nova living in relative peace. Certainly that doesn't sounds like what most of us would consider a Terat, and I'll even name drop Sean McCline who still claims ties to Teras but works his ass off to show the world that nothing is easy and if we are going to live in a better tomorrow then the work begins today.

Timeslip is intelligent; very few of you consider that she is not a whimsical, giggling ditz. I know enough of her to ascertain that if she left rather suddenly then she had very good reasons to do so. We are in no place to pass judgment on her as there is no one posting in this thread who can stand tall and say with confidence that they are infallible and have never made a mistake. However the fault of those actions are hers, and hers alone.

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Originally Posted By: Revenant
The fact that nobody is infallible means that it's impossible to ever judge anybody for anything ever.


By your logic, we should abolish the entire judiciary branch of the government, demolish every prison, and eliminate the entire criminal justice system.

Everybody thinks they have good and valid reasons for the stupid, bad shit they do. It's a rare man who can stand tall and admit that something he did was wrong, evil, or stupid, and that he knew it was wrong, evil, or stupid when he did it. Given the option, virtually nobody is going to choose to be punished if they can weasel out of it. You don't need higher brain function for that; weaseling out of punishment is a strategy that's been bred into birds and bees, snakes and men.

So yeah, Rev, I basically agree with you. Timeslip had an excellent reason for shirking on her prison sentence; that reason was not going to fucking prison. It may have been a calculated decision - in fact, I don't doubt for a goddamn second she examined all the angles - but the motivation behind it was all animal.
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Originally Posted By: Machina
By your logic, we should abolish the entire judiciary branch of the government, demolish every prison, and eliminate the entire criminal justice system.


Hammurabi was on to something. Look him up. In todays system people are not created equal. If you have money, power, and/or celebrity status then you do not get tried as an 'Average Joe'. This has happened enough that it is no longer a specualtion on my part, it's fact. People's guilt or innocence can be purchased, I'm sure in the case of a person like Timeslip her fate could be purchased based on the volume of the public out cry. If enough people want her to hang she will hang, regardless of the truth. This does not extend soley to Timeslip, but any nova or criminal. We see it every day.

I personally have little faith in today's justice system. Justice does not wear a blindfold because she is blind, she wears it so we cannot see the dollar signs in her eyes.

One more thing, frankly I don't give two shits in the wind what she did, where she is, or why she left. However, if I ever do ever see her again I'm gonna drop to my knees and spend about six hours munching that cosmic rug of hers for being an absolute darling and taking Jager away. It's the least I could do. My office has been so much quieter.
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I won't argue that. Lady Justice needs a good damn overhaul, no question. The metaphorical blindfold isn't cutting it; maybe someone ought to poke out her metaphorical eyes. We should all be equal in the eyes of the law, and it's a failing of the system and the people who make up its guts that we aren't.

That don't mean that the whole system's worthless. And if Timeslip didn't want to go to prison, she shouldn't have agreed to a fucking trial. I never endorsed the dumbfuck idea; but she did, she said she'd abide the judgment, and when the judgment wasn't to her liking, she promptly tried to ret-con the entire fucking experience. Sorry, but I don't think the shit should work that way. You commit yourself to our flawed legal process, you don't get to dance back when the result isn't to your liking. It's fucks like that thinking they can simply take the good and ignore the bad that is part of the problem with the whole goddamn process.

Though if she took Jager with her, I might let her slide. Ooh, maybe we shouldn't talk about him that way, Rev; if he's still around, he might glower disapprovingly at us and threaten to go Super-Sayin or whatever the fuck it is he does.

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I have sat around long enough and not said anything about Timeslip and her run from justice. I am of two minds about the whole incident.

1. She did kill one of the 'One Race', and for that she should have to atone. What she should do however is a matter for us, as a race, to decide. Why she decided to put her fate in the hands of chattel, is beyond me. Any option, to be tried by a baseline court, should not have even been considered. But she did, and when she did, she showed that she is not yet fully actualized as a Terat. Which brings me to the second point.

2. By submitting herself to the human legal system and vowing to abide by their decision, she should have accepted her punishment. This may seem odd coming from an ubercriminal and all around fun-guy like me, but she put herself at the mercy of zip laws for punishment. If she had come to the Teragen, seeking punishment for killing one of us, I would have more respect for her, but she did not. This tells me that she still sees human laws as legitimate when applied to one of us. By this action alone, she she should no longer be a Terat. Not only that, but she fled punishement, not just from human judgement, but from judgement by her peers.

As for taking Jager with her...good riddance. One less WCK is always a good thing.

There is still time for her to atone for what she did, and I have been authorized to offer her a way to do so. Once said atonement is done, she will, in the eyes of my organization, be absolved of killing Excavator. We will see that baseline laws and conventions never bother her again. Until then she will be persona non grata, and will get no succor from us. Any other Terats who aid her, whether they are Harvest or other, will be shunned and punished according to their level of aid. Leviathan himself is livid that she had even considered putting herself in front of a human court.

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,,
Originally Posted By: The White Rat
1. She did kill one of the 'One Race', and for that she should have to atone. What she should do however is a matter for us, as a race, to decide. Why she decided to put her fate in the hands of chattel, is beyond me. Any option, to be tried by a baseline court, should not have even been considered. But she did, and when she did, she showed that she is not yet fully actualized as a Terat. Which brings me to the second point.

2. By submitting herself to the human legal system and vowing to abide by their decision, she should have accepted her punishment. This may seem odd coming from an ubercriminal and all around fun-guy like me, but she put herself at the mercy of zip laws for punishment. If she had come to the Teragen, seeking punishment for killing one of us, I would have more respect for her, but she did not. This tells me that she still sees human laws as legitimate when applied to one of us. By this action alone, she she should no longer be a Terat. Not only that, but she fled punishement, not just from human judgement, but from judgement by her peers.

Clearly, you ain't been paying attention. All three of them judges were nova. Even I know that, and I don't get three shits in a corn silo about her, or even the nova that got killed. I'm sorry she's dead because she shouldn't have been killed, but I didn't know her and I don't care. That, ya'll, was just to state how stupid it is that I fucking knew that the trial was a jury of 'peers' and Furry, White and Mousy didn't.

Originally Posted By: Revenant
However, if I ever do ever see her again I'm gonna drop to my knees and spend about six hours munching that cosmic rug of hers for being an absolute darling and taking Jager away.

You said that, and all I could think was, "Well, Long will have something ta say... wait, no, he ain't. Or his Pink Inflato-doll is going to have something to say to him. Like 'You get to sleep on the scratching post tonight.'"

Yeah... ya'll can say it. I'm a bitch.

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Originally Posted By: Machina


So yeah, Rev, I basically agree with you. Timeslip had an excellent reason for shirking on her prison sentence; that reason was not going to fucking prison. It may have been a calculated decision - in fact, I don't doubt for a goddamn second she examined all the angles - but the motivation behind it was all animal.


I hope she's happy about the angles. You know how fucking mad our legal department has been going? Devries works its ass off to work within the boundries of the law. Okay, on the extreme goddamn edge but we work within the legal system. If she had just stayed a goddamn fugitive it would have been okay. But no, she had to make a big deal about getting her own kind of court, her own kind of justice, making the rule of law a total joke and after she does all that she blows it off.

The rest of us have to live in the world she left behind. The one that sees us as completely outside of the law.
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Originally Posted By: Trooper
The rest of us have to live in the world she left behind. The one that sees us as completely outside of the law.


You mean the one we were living in before all this that saw us and every other person with 'celebrity status' as already living outside the law?

You act like she's the only nova or celeb to request special treatment or make a laughing stock of the legal system.

Lessee...

O.J. Simpson
Paris Hilton
Marion Barry
Project Utopia
Bill Gates
Count Oraziz (or whatever the fuck it's spelled)
Me
Wakinyan

and about 1,000 others every damn day...

So, what part of this whole thing is "News", this is all old hat people, been going on since before we were around. Timeslip is hardly what I would call a legal pioneer.
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Difference is in the outcome Captain Death. Honestly, I can hardly believe she got her way and got the trial she asked for. That alone sent lawyer sphincters into full blown panic. But then she pissed all over the result of the trial and ignored it. Yeah, celebrities have always had it easy but there has always been at least lip service to the justice system having power. OJ got a trial and got off. Bullshit? Yeah, but the system was observed. Same with Marion Barry, you and Wakinyan and all that shit. Maybe Justice seemed off balance but folks could still act like it mattered in the long run. But now?

Fuck.

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Troop's right, this does mark something of a turning point. Celebrities and the wealthy have always thumbed their nose at the criminal system, but they at least pretended to obey the rules. They greased the wheels, they didn't break them. Time Bitch has effectively said "I don't like the laws, I don't like the verdict, and I'm going to ignore them, because I have the power to do so". That isn't OJ Simpson or Marion Barry kind of shit; that's Ruby Ridge, Branch Davidian shit. And we know how well those turned out.

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Originally Posted By: Sandcaster
Originally Posted By: Tawny 'Codex' March
Sandcaster,

What do I think? Timeslip got what she asked for, and skidaddled 'cause she didn't like it. What do you want me to say? The Project is full of spooks who use and abuse novas until they break, then stash them in Bahrain?

I'm sorry if I'm a little terse about the Teragen. Singularity was a nova supremacist in his own little Buddhist way, and it got up my goat that he dragged my aunt down with him.


Actually, I was more or less trying to get a feel for where the Project is these days, beyond anti-Teragen statements and the kind of thing that Dr. Troll spouts from time to time. They've been pretty tight-lipped ever since Ibiza.

As for your aunt... you know, Terat or not, she's helped a lot of people. When I was with the Knights, she offered up her assistance as an auxilliary on countless occasions, and did some really incredible, caring, above-and-beyond things. Singularity... well, I wouldn't call him "outgoing", but he would pitch in on occasion in his very quiet way, too. I know you aren't happy with the path she has taken, and I can't claim that I'm exactly thrilled with it, but she's not some murdering terrorist like Geryon or Timeslip. Maybe - just maybe - you should cut her a little slack.


I'm not denying that some basic decency might be left in her, but the woman you knew - post-Singularity - is not the same woman who I idolised as a little geek-in-training.

Samhra left a lot of grief for the remnants of her family, most especially me.
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We will suffer for what she has done. If she did not go threw the motions of her little play. If she left before the stage was set and the line said, she would have the same fate as she does now. She is barred from living a life in this world, and she has been from the time she lost her control.

The damage to us is the lie she lived. I know I could undue that lie in part but I have to watch the river for others to pass by.

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Originally Posted By: Matryoshka
We will suffer for what she has done.


Can't say I'm suffrin' one bit. It doesn’t affect me at all.

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The damage to us is the lie she lived.


She hasn't done anything that nova haven't done before. Give it six weeks and no one will give a shit. Some kid will fall down a well, Utopia will save him, and that will be the next big thing.

Quote:
I know I could undue that lie in part but I have to watch the river for others to pass by.


True evil is when good people stand by and do nothing. I would expect one who claims to be as wise as you to know this.
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Originally Posted By: Matryoshka
Revenant do you really believe in good and evil?


Indeed I do. I am evil, I know this, and I, as well as those who choose to stand at my side and call me friend accept it. I lie, cheat, hurt, and even kill, but certainly not all the time, that would just be boring. It is mearly my point of view, I choose to be this way, I choose an amoral path to a moral victory. Just as I choose to 'do good' by playing this whole Municipal Defender role for the people of Chicago, even if I do it my own way at times.

There has to be evil so that good can prove its purity above it. Or so they say.

They are merely a point of view, but they do exist.

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If you do then you should trust me when I this...


When you what?

Quote:
to undue what she has brought onto us would take a far more evil act than what she herself has done.


Tell ya what, why doesn't someone explain exactly what this great evil is she has visited upon us, cuz I sure as hell ain't seen it yet. I spent all day at the Burrito Barn and no one so much as brandished a torch or a pitchfork at me. Everyone here on the streets in Chi-town doesn't seen to be damning me... well, any more than usual anyways.

Or is this some political thing and I'm missing the big picture... again.
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Christ...

I spend a good deal of time out in deep space, and come back to this. I actually have to say I am shocked, and that takes a bit to do. The first step forward towards a (potential) justice system for the One Race, and Timeslip apparently ballses it up big time, making a mockery of all that the Teragen works for.

I only say "apparently" because for all I know there may have been some type of extenuating circumstances we are not aware of.

But in my mind I know that is a forlorn hope.

Timeslip, if you can read this, and there is something we are not aware of, let me know. Maybe we can do a message drop on Mars or such. If not, then I am deeply saddened by this turn of events.

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Originally Posted By: Matryoshka
Revenant do you really believe in good and evil? If you do then you should trust me when I this... to undue what she has brought onto us would take a far more evil act than what she herself has done.


It's undo, genius. Oh, and I think you meant 'when I say this'.

Sheesh. For a know-it-all, you really know jack about basic spelling and grammar. I mean, like really basic spelling and grammar.

Is English even your first language? For your sake, I hope not. Then you have an excuse.

Frankly, Timeslip can rot in whatever parallel reality she currently lives in, and I hope it contains a whole heap of flames.

Speaking of Chicago, are the Knights still active? One's lost with Timeslip, Sandcaster resigned... Who's keeping the leash on Revenant, Chaos and The Crusader?


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,,
Originally Posted By: Tawny 'Codex' March
Speaking of Chicago, are the Knights still active? One's lost with Timeslip, Sandcaster resigned... Who's keeping the leash on Revenant, Chaos and The Crusader?

Update your textbooks, sister. I don't need a keeper anymore.

And it's not Chaos. It's just Sean. Or Mr. McCline to you, if you keep mentioning me in the same breath as Reven and the Crusader.

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Originally Posted By: Revenant
Originally Posted By: Sean McCline
Or Mr. McCline to you, if you keep mentioning me in the same breath as Revenant Reven and the Crusader.


Or Turbo, Chicago's valiant watcher the Celtic keeper of the Irish Eye!

Wooooo Ahhhhhh Ohhhhh....

Yeah, keep that up, and I'll tell everyone what the Crusader calls you, Reven.
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