Jump to content

Real World vs N!Prime World: Indians & Rape


Jess OOC

Recommended Posts

OK, so this week in the Really Real World ™, a report was released by Ammesty International. The report, widely reported upon in the press, indicates that Native American women suffer incidences of rape and other sexual assaults at a rate more then twice that of non-Indian women.

Links:

Washington Post

Native Times

Amnesty International

The cause, as described in the report and various articles, is due to a mixture of problems, including but not limited to:

* Limited availability of law enforcement on the reservations.

* Jurisdictional problems between tribal and non-tribal authorities.

* Cultural shame.

* Old-fashioned racism.

As you know, this topic was something of a sore point with Ptesan-Wi a short time ago... and she was challenged at that time to "prove it". When this issue was raised in the press this week, my first thought (which I expressed in chat) was, "Holy shit, PW's vindicated."

The immediate response in chat was a questioning of just how applicable this report would be in the N!Prime 2017 World.

My position is that, while the problem might be slightly lessened, it would still be more or less the case. A short 19 years have passed since N-day, and the changes wrought in that time would seem to be very limited in respect to rural America in general and the tribal reservations in particular. The reservations tend to be the last to see any benefit from nationwide economic improvement; while they might have benefitted by now from a modest increase in money for law enforcement, the issues of the jurisdictional mess and the cultural problems should very much still be the case.

That said, that's just my opinion. What I'd like to do is to reach some sort of concensus on the issue, so that if/when PW or someone else references it, the thread doesn't turn into an endless argument over whether or not this is a "real" report.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I completely and totally agree.

There is nothing in Aberrant that suggests the reasons behind rape have been lessened by the presence of novas. Basically misogyny, racism, and pure hateful shittiness are still around in spades.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My intuition tells me the problem might be slightly worse in abby. Basically a combination of other things to pay attention to, and people with inferiority complexes would *really* feel inferior in abby with novas around and then taking it out on someone they can feel superior too.

And one of the problems the Indians have with this issue is it isn't a good thing to be dependant on the government if you don't have a lot of political power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A question of statistical relevance: has the report corrected for differences is socioeconomic status and enviornment?

Point 1: Rape is more common in poorer economic communities.

Point 2: Rape is more common in communities with high rates of drunkeness/alcoholism.

Point 3: Law enforcement is almost always lacking in communities that match point 1.

Given than the bulk of reservation communities meet all three of those criteria, is the report merely reflecting that socio-economic reality rather than actually indicating racial bias?

Note: I'm not actually arguing here that the Indian women living on reservations aren't more likely to be raped than average. What I'm questioning is whether they're twice as likely to be raped as a non-Indian woman of similar socio-economic status, or whether all those middle and upper class women of other ethnicities are skewing the analysis of the study's results.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wargear, one of the interesting aspects of the report is that in most cases rape occures within an ethnic/racial boundry. Whites tend to rape whites. Blacks tend to rape blacks, etc. But in the case of Native Americans there is a much larger than normal instance of attack by a member outside of the group.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh for fucks sake, come on guys n' gals. Just say "Yes: the idea seems sound." or "No I think the idea can dance on my piss clams while rubbing sand on my assy nipples".

It's a game, quit with all the analytical bull shit and just give it the laugh, or the nod.

Personally I think that by 2017 there would have been enough Native American's erupted to get the Indian Nations back on their feet as an established and respected culture. While by no means are they a super power I'm sure by now that those statistics have dropped significantly. I don't need anything to back it up with or anything to prove me right or wrong. I base my assumptions on things like novas are changing the world.

Antaeus can teraform a dead country but some other nova can't lower the crime/rape rate against Native American women? I find it doubtful. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but I don't think by 2017 it would be any worse than it is now, perhaps it might have decreased as Native Americans erupted (like Waki) and "policed" their own lands. Face it, knowing there is a nova who will kill you if you touch one of their woman (and who can prolly find you) is a great crime deterrent.

However, as a neutral party ATM, I would be willing to concede what the majority decides here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As Dave pointed out, novas have had an impact on the world. Aberrant is not set in the World of Darkness. It's set in a better, brighter world that is facing eventual destruction in the Aberrant Wars... and yet, we know that there is another future beyond that, Trinity.

At the very least, a reduction in crime in any given nation will mean that the government can focus on more social programs to improve their citizen's lives. Such programs will reduce some of the causes of racial violence, while other programs would increase the amount of money available to the tribal authorities. I won't suggest that any minority would face the same levels of violence as whites, but in the better, brighter world of Aberrant (or at least a better world on the surface of things), violence would be lessened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally Posted By: Hugin
I completely and totally agree.

There is nothing in Aberrant that suggests the reasons behind rape have been lessened by the presence of novas. Basically misogyny, racism, and pure hateful shittiness are still around in spades.


Wow, thanks, dick. Avenger says "Fuck you" from his botched Chrysalis.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look, not to get all Mel Gibson, here, but I cannot take this seriously. For starters, I'd like to see a copy of the study, something I didn't see provided in any of the above links. Then of course comes the issue of how Amnesty defined "rape", a word that sounds simple until you realize that every state interprets that word differently for legal matters, which says nothing about how tribal communities interpret it.

Also, as Wargear pointed out, if the study didn't correct for socioeconomic factors, it's about a step removed from Intelligent Design in the realm of validity. There are fewer rapes reported in Martha's Vineyard or Cape Cod than there are in Harlem, too. There's a question of causation that isn't addressed, here; even if we take it as a given that Native American women are more frequently the subject of sexual abuse, is it because they're Native American? Or is it because they tend to cluster in small communities out in the middle of fucking nowhere near casinos where half their neighbors are dealing or doing meth? To say nothing of the fact that reservations aren't exactly the most cop-friendly neighborhoods even aside from the drugs. I'm sure racism very much is a part of it, but let's not ignore the elephant in the room.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

*sigh*

Seph, the report was pretty clear in that it is *not* just a matter of racism, and nowhere did I try to claim that it was. The socioeconomic factors you mention *are* a big part of it; added to the mix is the jurisdictional headache that basically makes it damned hard to get a non-Indian prosecuted for something that happens on a reservation (which makes reservations a helluva target of opportunity for non-Indian sexual predators).

Racism probably plays a role in some instances, but it's a long way from the biggest factor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree! My point was simply that there's a statistical bias inherent in comparing a small, insular community with the rest of the entire country, especially considering the volume and range of demographics in the states that don't exist on native reservations.

As for the difficult legality of prosecuting non-Indians who commit crimes on reservations, you're also correct. And while rape is terrible and there's never justification for it, the native community has shot itself in the foot, there. By clinging to a vestige of racial and cultural autonomy, they are adding a layer of protection to the people who wrong them, something that's counter to precisely what that autonomy tries to accomplish. Bottom line is that if the reservations existed as cultural instead of sovereign entities, I think you'd see a little more accountability on the outside.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally Posted By: Jess OOC
A short 19 years have passed since N-day, and the changes wrought in that time would seem to be very limited in respect to rural America in general and the tribal reservations in particular.
You're right. The world changes slowly and cultural changes usually occur over generations. It takes time for the guardians of the old status quo to die off or be replaced by the younger generations with newer or more radical ideas. Now, that said, let's suppose my character lives in Brooklyn. Let's suppose my character is highly active in the community and maybe even a community pillar. That's not so great a stretch when you consider my character is probably the only nova that didn't use eruption to go onto bigger and better things. Now suppose I state there is an epidemic of drug use among Brooklyn teens that's resulting from the kids being "cultivated" as future addicts while still in their preteens. Moreover, these unscrupulous dealers are from outside of Brooklyn. This is all really great but eventually someone is going to ask me what I'm doing about it. Because after all I'm the one that said my character is full time resident of Brooklyn, highly active in the community and even a pillar of the community.

Originally Posted By: Jess OOC
The reservations tend to be the last to see any benefit from nationwide economic improvement; while they might have benefitted by now from a modest increase in money for law enforcement, the issues of the jurisdictional mess and the cultural problems should very much still be the case.
I would submit the presence of novas actively involved in those areas changes the dynamic. I would also submit that convincingly saying something is true is a wonderful thing. Explaining why its true and making it real for the characters of other players is even better. But either my character does something with it, perhaps tries to deal with the issues involved even if the problem is too big to be resolved, or its just a throw away statement. While real world events may allow me to say something convincingly and even give me ideas for explaining why it is happening, it doesn't help me at all in making the problem real for the characters. Nor will it help me in explaining to them why it happens despite the presence of my character. Now think about it; if despite my characters phenomenal abilities and passion he can't do anything about the problem, then why should anyone else's character care about the issue? If my character is powerless then why would any other character decide to get involved?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...