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OOC: Denver thread


Dawn OOC

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Please do kill it. Flea works for Project Utopia in Denver. I think they'd be just a little bit intrigued by a move like this.

Besides which, a haven for novas? What? As Nathan put it so well in chat: screw the homeless, the battered, the orphans: the people who can fly and bend steel need a shelter too!

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Originally Posted By: Hugin
Well, working for isn't canon violation. Saying that it is, would be.

The last time one of Dreamer's characters created something like this (the temples), despite everyone saying it wasn't very workable, he went for it anyway. I felt a preemptive strike was preferable to the mess we had before.

EDITED to add: This is not a personal attack against anyone. I remember what happened last time I did nothing when I thought I should, and I hope that a little bitterness now will prevent much more bitterness later.
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Originally Posted By: Flea
Please do kill it. Flea works for Project Utopia in Denver. I think they'd be just a little bit intrigued by a move like this.

Besides which, a haven for novas? What? As Nathan put it so well in chat: screw the homeless, the battered, the orphans: the people who can fly and bend steel need a shelter too!


One thing The other and Via Vox have been living in Denver for many years now. As I recall for longer than you the player have been in the site,another thing they are both teragen, and really do everything they can do not interevn with baselines. lastly according to your own word you do not care what I do IC anymore.
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Dreamer:

Nobody's complaining about Vox Via and/or the Other living in/around/near Denver (though after Vox Via's stunt in Chicago, maybe they should). The problem is that, once again, you're attempting to impose new canon for a significant area/location by fiat rather than by cooperative means. It is precisely these kind of actions that have been a major reason for so many of us - myself included - to decide to have no IC involvement with any of your characters.

As far as I'm concerned, your IC post is a false ranting to be ignored until it is removed by the moderators, at which point it simply didn't happen at all.

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Of coarse it is major change to the canon, cause I never do anything small, and nothing I ever try to do will ever fail. Also I think that at no time should people ever ask what some highly vague terms could mean cause they will always do the abusloot worst thing with with them..

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Originally Posted By: Jess OOC
Dreamer:

Nobody's complaining about Vox Via and/or the Other living in/around/near Denver (though after Vox Via's stunt in Chicago, maybe they should).

As far as I'm concerned, your IC post is a false ranting to be ignored until it is removed by the moderators, at which point it simply didn't happen at all.


Please do kill it. Flea works for Project Utopia in Denver. I think they'd be just a little bit intrigued by a move like this.

Hey Flicker, Jess thinks your nobody.

Hey Jess, sit on it. Really you signed the accord so if I posted the sun was warm in Texas you would think it is non canon in the first place.
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Disruptive? Seeing as you do not know what I meant by haven. Or if it will even happen. You are putting all your silly little problems out here because you do not know what the goal is. You do not ask if I planed for it to work and you do even know what it would be.

BTw the haven in question would be a place where novas can go to without most fear of the law. The idea being that he will set up something that is legally speaking a church mixed with a auturnies office. In other words, it will be a pain in the ass for the cops to come in, and he can legally say I am sorry your honor I cannot tell you what you want to know. The cannon is broken! THat is if he gets what he wants.

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Originally Posted By: Catalyst
BTw the haven in question would be a place where novas can go to without most fear of the law. The idea being that he will set up something that is legally speaking a church mixed with a auturnies office.
Dianetics already exists. And if you're going to do this, Denver is a bit big.

Nor does it prevent PU/DeVries recruiters from coming after people.
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Originally Posted By: Catalyst
The cannon is broken! THat is if he gets what he wants.


So, basically you are doing this to break canon. Clearly this is an attempt to disrupt not only the characters people have worked so hard to create and give 'life' to, but also be blatantly disrespectful to the rules and guide lines that Chosen has set down for us.

Have you any respect at all?
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Clear my scarcasim was not thick enough and you missed the if part.Still, your reve so you must be right...

Really, he is not going to get what he wants, but here is the trick..I am not going to "tell him that"...Cause you know sometime people try things and fail.

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Originally Posted By: Catalyst
Clear my scarcasim was not thick enough and you missed the if part.Still, your reve so you must be right...


I'm sorry... I missed the part where I wa vulgar or rude to the point where I deserved that. Now if you would like me to start being a dick, lemme know and light I'll your ass up.

Quote:
Really, he is not going to get what he wants, but here is the trick..I am not going to "tell him that"...Cause you know sometime people try things and fail.


Had this out cry not happened he would have. As it stands all you're doing is once again pissing people off. What's wrong with a post that says:

"Woah, relax everyone, this is a story hook I'm working with and Vox is doomed to failure. But have fun RPing it out with me, thanks!"

~Vox

That's all that you have to do to keep problems like this from happening. But it seems to difficult for you because here we are again sitting through another OOC thread dedicated to informing you that your antics aren't appreciated.
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I'm not sure what Vox's idea of a safe zone is and I'd like to know.

I do believe that there is no way the governments of Denver (in their right minds), Colorado state, or the United States. If Mega-Socials are used to sway the City Council, I think the Feds and the Directive swoop in with whatever power they need.

The governments involved are not going to surrender an ounce of their authority. There can be no established zone of legal immunity anywhere the Directive and Project Utopia can reach. The implications of this would be devestating to both politically and legally.

Even if Vox has the best of intentions, they would be perverted down the line by others, because the ability to pervert is so readily available. When you reject law, you invite lawlessness.

I would not accept that any nova (outside of Mal, damn his freakish cape) could pull off this extra-legal status.

If you threaten with the use of powers, you simply gets you confronted with assassinations at every turn.

I am not against canon being taken in different directions, but I would point out that until the 2020's, the vast majority of novas buy into the status quo. Society works for them, not against them. By rocking the boat, you piss off most novas who don't want baselines worried about 'were they stand' on this or that political issue.

Change rarely happens in a vaccum. It requires planning, work, and conscensus among some of the factors in play. I agree that change starts with someone - somewhere, but that someone doesn't act alone, and that somewhere isn't chosen at random. When this has been attempted - twice (Macedonia and the Ukraine), the UN has asked Project Utopia and Team Tomorrow to step in.

As an interesting final note, when the rights of novas have been infringed upon (China, Nigeria, and Tampa), there has been no such intervention and little outcrying from the nova population. Some things are screwy that way.

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Originally Posted By: Catalyst
Clear my scarcasim was not


Ignore what you meant to write and read what is here... The Yodaness of the above Typo is too perfect.

Please, please, Please, Please... Catalyst...

You are not known for subtle sarcasm. The only sarcasm that comes through clearly from you is the type that is loaded with meanness. If you're actually trying to be subtle with sarcasm please use emoticons of some sort to clue people in.

Please

PLease

PLEASE

Thanks

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Originally Posted By: Gabriel Law
Quote:
Really, he is not going to get what he wants, but here is the trick..I am not going to "tell him that"...Cause you know sometime people try things and fail.


Had this out cry not happened he would have. As it stands all you're doing is once again pissing people off. What's wrong with a post that says:

"Woah, relax everyone, this is a story hook I'm working with and Vox is doomed to failure. But have fun RPing it out with me, thanks!"

~Vox

That's all that you have to do to keep problems like this from happening.

And as I noted with you in chat a while ago, we shouldn't have to ask. It's on your shoulders to tell us this - we are not mind-readers (that's our characters, not us) and we don't know unless you tell us.

If you can't bother to communicate with us, then all you can expect is more anger and criticism, just like you have recieved in this thread.
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Originally Posted By: Catalyst
Really, he is not going to get what he wants, but here is the trick..I am not going to "tell him that"...Cause you know sometime people try things and fail.


Realistically, he shouldn't get anything but moxed past the gills and sent to some dark hole that the Directive uses for extremely dangerous felons.

1. You established last year that Vox is a Federal Felon/Fugitive. As such, no local or federal government people should meet with you at all. Those government people you meet with are going to be Directive Agents pretending to be government agents so they can get close & capture him.

2. Ignoring Vox' fugitive status, no governement, even one that's out of its mind, is going to cede legal jurisdiction to something like what you're describing. If Vox is as smart as you say he is, he would know that before he tried to start negotiating.

3. As others have said... If you wanted to do something like this, you need to give people a heads up in advance that you plan to fail so that the players don't get torqued off needlessly. Right now... it appears that you fully intended to carry through with your plan. It also appears that only after the uproar did you say you're not going through with it. Let people know ahead of time or at the same time next time... There is simply no need to get people's ire up needlessly.

4. Please refer back to my previous post about sarcasm. Seriously.

Thanks

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Originally Posted By: Dawn, GM
Originally Posted By: Gabriel Law
Quote:
Really, he is not going to get what he wants, but here is the trick..I am not going to "tell him that"...Cause you know sometime people try things and fail.


Had this out cry not happened he would have. As it stands all you're doing is once again pissing people off. What's wrong with a post that says:

"Woah, relax everyone, this is a story hook I'm working with and Vox is doomed to failure. But have fun RPing it out with me, thanks!"

~Vox

That's all that you have to do to keep problems like this from happening.


And as I noted with you in chat a while ago, we shouldn't have to ask. It's on your shoulders to tell us this - we are not mind-readers (that's our characters, not us) and we don't know unless you tell us.

If you can't bother to communicate with us, then all you can expect is more anger and criticism, just like you have recieved in this thread.


And let's say that he for whatever he reason got it. You understand that he is turning his house into a curch/legal office. As in he would have something akin to clinet/prashinarn privacy privilages. Not Gorund breaking in my book. But not my book.
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Lawyers and Clergy can offer confidentiality, not refuge.

If Vox is wanted by the Federal Government he won't be allowed to practice law and he'd have to be clergy of a recognized church.

But again, confidentiality, not protection.

Any nova in his home will have no more proction than if they were in their own home. They still have to abide by the law of the land and all warrants would still be valid.

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Quote:
And let's say that he for whatever he reason got it. You understand that he is turning his house into a curch/legal office. As in he would have something akin to client/prashioner privacy privilages. Not Ground breaking in my book. But not my book.


A)Sanctuary has to be recognized, and b)lawyer-client priviledge only pertains to what a client says to a lawyer pertaining to current, or pending criminal, or civil charges. Its is not a bye on a crime, or a criminal conspiracy.
Also, in both cases, your status as a church/priest and lawyer has to be accepted. Becoming a church is somewhat easier (normally) but you are under some guidelines if you do so. Being allowed to practice law is also up to the state in question as to what qualifications are required.
If you are a federal fugitive, you will have trouble on both counts.
If your church is acknowledged, and you choose to offer sanctuary, please understand it is not blanket protection and what protections are provided are limited to approved holy ground ... not your business office. If you are harboring a fugitive, the authorities will come in for them and their status as refugees will be decided by the courts, as it should be.
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It's kind of like having a room-mate that monstrously annoys you. You and the other room-mates decide to ignore the icky room-mate.

And then the icky room-mate walks into the living room while you're all playing Doom II and announces that he thinks he's going to take a monster dump on the coffee table.

Do you ignore him and deal with the stink and mess or do you do something about it?

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Originally Posted By: Tessa Barnes
We can't ban him because Chosen won't get rid of anyone.


While I don't enjoy removing anyone from the site, you aren't technically correct. Over the years a few people have been temporarily banned and a couple people have been asked to go elsewhere. I try my best to give people every opportunity to make amends before I come in with the Admin stick.
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Originally Posted By: Chosen
While I don't enjoy removing anyone from the site, you aren't technically correct. Over the years a few people have been temporarily banned and a couple people have been asked to go elsewhere. I try my best to give people every opportunity to make amends before I come in with the Admin stick.


Thank you. That's something that I've always stood behind you on. If people seriously have a problem with the way a person plays the game, they can ignore that person OOC and vote all their IC material non-canon. Banning somebody because you don't like them, think they're stupid, or that their writing sucks isn't a precedent for banning them. As much as some of you would certainly define Dreamer's work as awful in an objective sense of the word, that's a bottle that could be spun at pretty much anybody if enough people decided to gang-bang you. Banning somebody for bad work sets a precedent that I am very uncomfortable with, so I'm with The Man on this one.
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Let's presume, for a moment, I feel exactly as you do about Dreamer's work. I'm not saying one way or another.

It's only a disruptive influence because people allow it to be. Internet protocols dating back to the 90's says "Don't feed the trolls"; if you really think that Dreamer's stuff is terrible and a disruptive presence here, stop lending it credibility by acknowledging it. This is the exact reason Richard Dawkins doesn't debate Creationists, anymore; even stepping into the arena with them gives them what they want. By doing anything other than turning a completely blind eye to the player and his machinations, you are throwing more fuel on the fire. If you want to get rid of someone, you shouldn't need to ban them. You just do like everyone did to the Vegas Marquee monsters from Treehouse of Horror; "Just don't look! Just don't look!"

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