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Aberrant RPG - Invulnerability as a liability


The White Rat
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Ok campers, I had a thought occur to me this morning and I thought I would ask your input.

We know that Quantum Vampire drains one pre-determined Quantum Power or Attribute. What if that Quantum power is Invulnerability?

This would mean that on a successful touch the target is drained of their Invulnerability. I assume you would gain that person's specific Invulnerability. If they had multiple versions, would you drain one on the first attack, then have to drain the other on a subsequent attack? Would you drain both of them equally, dividing the dots between the two?

What if the Q-Vampire: Invulnerability is an area effect. Would that mean you could drain one of each version from everyone in the area? Would not this then make your character invulnerable to every attack form if the opponents had differing versions? Those opponent would all then be left defenseless.

Invulnerability would be a liability to a nova attacked by a nova with Q-Vampire: Invulnerability.

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Just "Quantum Vampire: Invulnerability" is a little too broad. There are countless versions of Invulnerability possible, all of them distinct, hence the power needs to be more specified.

Something like "Quantum Vampire: Invulnerability (Fire)."

EDITED: Actually, I can see this power working if some system is worked out for what happens when the target has more than one Invulnerability. The question is who picks which Invulnerability.

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Bahamu: That is like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg.

Quantum Vampire can be used to drain Q-bolt. It doesn't specify which type of Q-Bolt can be drained. I think if you limited its power to one version per attack, then it would be ok. Besides, what better way to humble some player who stocks up on all Invulnerabilities so they can never be hurt. Once they have no Invul, they have nothing else to draw from and are essentially baselines. It would force other players to broaden their character concepts.

Edit:

By types of Invulnerability, I mean physical attacks, energy attacks, and mental attacks.

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After some thought, I would say that there could be two ways to approach the draining of differing Invulnerabilities.

One, invulnerability dots taken are divided among the successes. For example, if the opponent had Invulnerabilities to 'Physical Attacks', 'Mental Attacks', and 'Energy Attacks', and you got 6 net successes, you would drain two dots from each one.

Two, the invulnerability dots would be taken from the 'Physical Attacks' first, then the 'Mental Attacks', and finally the Energy Attacks'.

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Okay, if I was the ST?

I wouldn't allow QVampire:Invunerability to effect Invunerabilities with Broad Catagories. Game balance.

I also wouldn't have them stack if coming from different sources. Each novas powers are unique, QBolt with a fire descriptor from Nova A is not the same power as QBolt with a fire descriptor from Nova B.

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I think the problem here, Rat, is that you're talking about multiple Invulnerabilities coming from a single source. As Prodigy noted, each of those powers are distinct, hence it follows that you must drain each power separately. As in if you get six net successes you need to take as much as you can from Invulnerability #1 before you can move onto #2.

Also, I'm still wondering how you pick which Invulnerability would get hit first. Does the ST determine? The target? The attacker? How would the attacker know which Invulnerabilities, if any, are there?

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Quote:
Originally posted by Harold 'Mythic' Anderson:
I think the problem here, Rat, is that you're talking about multiple Invulnerabilities coming from a single source. As Prodigy noted, each of those powers are distinct, hence it follows that you must drain each power separately. As in if you get six net successes you need to take as much as you can from Invulnerability #1 before you can move onto #2.

Also, I'm still wondering how you pick which Invulnerability would get hit first. Does the ST determine? The target? The attacker? How would the attacker know which Invulnerabilities, if any, are there?
Under the power description, the player could decide which to start with. However after that power is drained it does not automaticly cascade to the next power, regardless of the number of successes on the part of the player, the next power would not be drained until the player's initiative phase next turn unless he has the "Multiple Traits" extra.

Keep and mind also that the player is limited to the highest level of the power in the area, so if there are three Nova's all with Invulnerability (Fire)● and the player uses quantum vampire to siphon all three of their dots, that player still ony has Invulnerability (Fire)●, not Invulnerability (Fire)●●●.
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Prodigy, a nova with Q-vampire: Q-bolt would be effective against any type of Quantum bolt. I don't thin a distinction could be made between what type of invulnerability is to be taken. If it is an Invulnerability it would be succeptable.

Remember, any nova who is dorm'ed is immune to Q-Vampire. That, and disrupting your powers are the defenses against it.

As for being able to choose which Invulnerability to take first, I would start with the one with the most dots, because it would have the most quantum power. If they had equal dots, then the level 3 Invulnerability would go first, followed by the level two. If they were all level two or three, then Physical Invulnerbilities would be first, followed by Energies, then finally Mental.

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Stuart, I'm talking game balance. One of the lovely things about the ST system is if I'm an ST I get to say, "I don't give a lovely fuck what twinkery you were hoping for. No." As I said, if I was ST that is what I would do. Or I'd argue that you have to have the stat or base stat already in order to have Q Vampire pump it up. You have Wits? Bravo, Q Vampire Wits will pump up your wits and then flow over to MegaWits as described. You have Q Bolt? Beauty, your Q Vampire: Q Bolt will enhance your own Q Bolt. You don't have it? Well then you're shit out of luck, B'wana.

Q Vampire:Some Power allowing you to suck up someone elses powers and then get them for yourself is basically slapping Disrupt right on top of QImprint. Twinkery.

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Proddy, I was actually going to make that point. If you don't have any dots in that specific type of Invulnerability, all you would do is drain their Invulnerability. That said, Q-Vampire makes no reference to gaining dots for powers in which no roll is necessary. Now, Q-Vampire: FF would be another story, because you actually would get to roll die for soak.

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OK, let's back up here.

If I Q-Vamp(Strength) three novas each for their one dot in M-Str, I get M-Str 3 (actually chances are good I'm going to get M-Str 5).

That's a lot more broken than Q-Vamping INV from multiple novas IMHO.

As for the order of the drain, if I were ST I'd do it on which dot cost more exp. Just like with M-Str, the most expensive stuff goes first. If there is a tie then flip a coin.

As for draining something that you don't have, tough cookies. The rules are clear that you can do this, and what the effects are.

The real question is whether it's broken or not. Considering how rare INV is, I'd say it's not only not broken but it doesn't sound all that useful.

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Dr. T, I would disagree as to its usefulness. Here's why.

A nova with any Invulnerability is protected from that attack. For those who protect themselves from all physical attacks are for all intensive purposes 'immune' to any physical attacks. When that is stacked with Inv: Energy attacks (and in some cases even Mental), that nova would be able to take tremendous amounts of damage. This means that to combat such a nova, you have to do a tremendous amount of damage to get past their soak or find a weakness. Or you can drop their Invulnerability and attack them with more mundane and less damaging weaponry.

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Quote:
Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:


As for draining something that you don't have, tough cookies. The rules are clear that you can do this, and what the effects are.

The real question is whether it's broken or not. Considering how rare INV is, I'd say it's not only not broken but it doesn't sound all that useful.
Again, if I'm the ST and I say it's broken then fuck the rules. Game balance. Twinks need not apply.
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Troll, Disrupt would be a better choice than Q-Vampire, unless you had one dot in Invulnerability, then it could probably have some benefit. The Forcefield version would be much better, because even if you had no dots in FF, you would still get to roll your Stam-Mega-Stam for soak, as per the rules for Q-Vamp.

Would the same rule apply for Q-Imprint if one of the powers you copied was Invulnerability? The book gives no example a copied a power, other than Q-Bolt.

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I see no reason why you could only drain powers that require dice rolls. Q-Vamp just says your dice roll is based on your attribute and not your attribute plus power if you don't have that power.

The rough part is that if the Vampire didn't have that INV power himself, then he'd have to pay q to use it. Q-Vampires pay an extra +1, so even if it's normally free they still have to pay. Duration is a bit tricky, I'm guessing that on normally Perm powers it would be a per scene cost.

,,
Quote:
James 'Prodigy' Meehan:...if I'm the ST and I say it's broken...
Granted, but why is it broken? You can't drain your own clones, so you can't depend on INV being around.

Actually it might be worse than that. Very likely the "can't apply to ally's powers" part from Elemental Anima: Increase could and should be applied here.

But even without that, this power doesn't seem all that useful. If someone wants to make "Super-Brick" then there are much better ways. If someone wants to make "I strip you of your AGG defense and then Disintagrate you" then Disrupt is better.

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