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Aberrant RPG - Poison: Aggrivated-broken or not?


The White Rat
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We had a discussion earlier in the chat room about whether poison with the agg damage extra is broken or not.

1.) Under poison you need two successes to do one level of bashing damage. If you give the agg damage version the same requisite number of successes/level of agg damage, (+ 1 per level of quantum), is the power still broken?

If you give it three successes/level of agg damage done, as poison lists for lethal damage, is it still broken?

2.) Mental blast has an extra which gives it an aggravated damage extra. How is this any different than poison's extra?

I know giving a character such a power may lead to blacklisting, but what does everyone else think?

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I'd say that adding the Aggravated extra would use the rules for lethal damage (one level of damage per three successes). Lethal is just closer to aggravated than bashing.

I don't particularly see any problem with it. It's actually not all that hot a power to add Aggravated to, since Poison isn't generally soaked anyway. (The only way to soak it is if you have Adaptability, or presumably Heath.)

Even if the target does have Adaptability or Heath, they are only soaking with Stamina and M-Stamina, rather than with the serious soaks like Armor and Force Field. And anyone with Hardbody still gets to soak (and might pretty well wipe out your piddly little Poison damage dice pool).

For the vast majority of targets, the only difference between Poison (lethal) and Poison (aggravated) is going to be in the healing of it.

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The agg damage extra says that anything doing bashing or lethal damage is converted to aggravated damage. That would mean the you would get a level of aggravated damage for every two successes. In addition you get an automatic number equal to your quantum.

The argument against it was that it did too much damage, because it had been determined that a power like hardbody did not work with a power like poison, because it effected the body internally rather than on the outside. Even if it was, it is still not soaked in the same manner, and it's lethal effects would be more effective. Also, if you use a power like disintegration as a guide, it is a 1:1 success to damage ratio. But, unlike disintegration, it is not soaked in the same manner, and it was deemed too powerful.

For ex: If poison was like disintegration, and you had a Q4, you would get 4+(stamina+poison) levels of agg damage. This damage could only be soaked if you had Adaptability and Health on an opposed Stamina/Mega-Stamina roll.

For a character without those defenses, being attacked by a character with Stam5/Mega-Stam3/Poison1, they would take 4-19 levels of aggravated damage. Link the power with another one to give it a level 4 weakness and add four more die of damage as a strength, and to those who can't defend from it, it means certain death with only a few successes.

All this for a 1 quantum power.

But, unlike disintegration, poison's effect is not immediate, and the character can attempt to neutralize the toxin.

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The agg damage extra says that anything doing bashing or lethal damage is converted to aggravated damage. That would mean the you would get a level of aggravated damage for every two successes. In addition you get an automatic number equal to your quantum.

Exactly. Every two succ become an extra level of damage, and then you have Q on top of it. Very nasty.

It could be soaked normally, but the only thing that give soak for this is Adaptability (and you'd still have to have Hardbody since AGG ignores soak without it). INV:Poison or some such would also work.

However, AGG ignores soak, it doesn't ignore defenses. Defenses in this case would be succ from the target's resistance roll. "Health" would also apply normally (i.e. every level of M-Stam would remove a level of damage).

Further, keep in mind that this isn't instant. Poison takes a long time, a "fast" poison might do one level of damage per scene (with a delay of a scene). As each level of damage showed up, you could Regenerate or Heal it normally.

Example: Nova "Toxic Guy" has 3 dots of Poison + AGG. He also has Q4, M-Stam 3, and Stamina 5. He normally gets (1.2 + 2.7 + 2 =>) 6 succ on his Poison roll, and the ST has ruled that it's one for one (like Q-Bolt+Agg with the AGG rules) rather Poison's normal Bashing damage.

To that 6 succ we add his Q of 4, for 10 levels of damage to his victim (s). (All rolls are exactly average).

Victim #1: Joe Baseline has Stamina 4 and Res 1, he gets 2 succ and spends willpower for 1 more. He takes 7 levels of Aggravated damage over 3.5 days. He doesn't die but he probably wishes he was.

Victim #2: Generic Nova has Stamina 5, Res 3 (standard), & Mega-Stamina 1 (Adaptability). He gets 4 succ to resist and also spends willpower for a total of 5. He doesn't soak any of it since he doesn't have Hardbody, so he's going to wish he had Regen and spend some lots of time healing.

Victim #3: Dr. Troll has Stamina 5, Resist 4, Mega-Stamina 4, with Regen and Health. He does have Hardbody but that doesn't matter since he doesn't have Adaptability. Before we even look at his roll, Health takes 4 levels of virilance right off the top so it's only a 6 succ attack. Troll gets 7 succ to resist and never even notices he's been attacked.

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"The agg damage extra says that anything doing bashing or lethal damage is converted to aggravated damage. That would mean the you would get a level of aggravated damage for every two successes."

You could take it that way, but it makes much more sense to handle it using the lethal rules. Again, lethal damage is more similar to aggravated damage than bashing is.

"In addition you get an automatic number equal to your quantum."

I could be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure that's not true. You get extra successes, not extra levels of damage.

The above means that if you have Stamina 5, M-Stamina 5, Quantum 5, and Poison 5 - everything totally maxed out - you can pull out around 13 successes on average. Call it 15, since M-Attributes are kind of weird statistically.

Assuming that you're targeting someone that can't soak, this lets you dish out around 5 levels of aggravated damage if you're using the rules for lethal damage.

To use this, you have to walk up to someone, touch them (possibly requiring an attack roll), then use your power. If this happens, you still won't kill them, and the effects won't even set in immediately.

What's more, the question is whether or not the aggravated extra is a broken addition. You'd deal exactly the same amount of damage with Poison (lethal) - it just won't heal as easily.

Color me unimpressed. It's a power that won't even kill a totally defenseless baseline human on an average roll - and this is if you have every relevant trait maxed out. I'd also point out that if you can afford Q5, Stamina 5, M-Stamina 5, and five dots of what amounts to a third level power, you can come up with much better attacks.

"... it had been determined that a power like hardbody did not work with a power like poison, because it effected the body internally rather than on the outside ..."

Nonsense. Hardbody lets you soak physical aggravated damage as lethal damage. There's nothing in the rules about it not applying to 'internal' damage.

Incidentally, in this case it is arguable that you don't even need Hardbody to soak Poison (aggravated). The rules say simply that Adaptability (again, presumably Health as well) allows you to soak Poison damage. By a strict literal reading, this means that you can still soak even if the damage is Aggravated.

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I thought this needed responding to seperately.

...Link the power with another one to give it a level 4 weakness and add four more die of damage as a strength...

1) Linkage maxes to three levels.

2) Four more dice of damage in this case would translate into 1.6 succ.

3) Generally speaking, I'd hope most ST's wouldn't allow attacks to be linked, that's more of an advantage than a disadvantage.

4) The nasty part (which I didn't mention but you've partly alluded to), is presumably you could poison Victim #2 above, and then poison him again another time or 2. It's not like he takes damage right away, presumably he gets an awareness check (against your Ledgerdaman (sp)) to see if he chatches you at it, but if you are shaking hands I'm not sure there would be anything to detect.

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April Rice: "The agg damage extra says that anything doing bashing or lethal damage is converted to aggravated damage. That would mean the you would get a level of aggravated damage for every two successes."

You could take it that way, but it makes much more sense to handle it using the lethal rules. Again, lethal damage is more similar to aggravated damage than bashing is.
He's getting it from the Aggravated rules. Agg takes any power that does lethal or bashing (which poison does), and converts that damage into Succ+[Q] Agg.

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April Rice:Incidentally, in this case it is arguable that you don't even need Hardbody to soak Poison (aggravated). The rules say simply that Adaptability (again, presumably Health as well) allows you to soak Poison damage. By a strict literal reading, this means that you can still soak even if the damage is Aggravated.
Aggravated damage ignores soak. You can have soak specific for the damage type, but unless it also soaks Aggravated (as INV does), then nothing.

Health doesn't supply any soak at all, it just reduces the effect of the poison (which is actually better).
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According to the aggravated extra, "The character inflict a base amount of aggravated damage equal to Quantum, then adds the attack successes from her skill roll to determine the total aggravated damage inflicted."

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The above means that if you have Stamina 5, M-Stamina 5, Quantum 5, and Poison 5 - everything totally maxed out - you can pull out around 13 successes on average. Call it 15, since M-Attributes are kind of weird statistically.

Assuming that you're targeting someone that can't soak, this lets you dish out around 5 levels of aggravated damage if you're using the rules for lethal damage.

With Quantum of 5 you inflict 5 levels of aggravated damage before you roll for successes. You would inflict 5 levels of agg damage minimum.
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I don't think you can really justify using that rule with respect to Poison, since it doesn't work even vaguely like the other damage-dealing powers. The point of creating that rule was to mitigate aggravated damage (dropping the multipliers common to most damaging powers), not to increase the damage dealt.

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I agree with April on this one. The Agg extra was written with all of the blasting powers in mind, the ones that do significantly more than Succ+[Q] levels of damage.

I also think the Agg extra is poorly written for including the damage code that way anyway.

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April Rice: I don't think you can really justify using that rule with respect to Poison, since it doesn't work even vaguely like the other damage-dealing powers. The point of creating that rule was to mitigate aggravated damage (dropping the multipliers common to most damaging powers), not to increase the damage dealt.
I don't have a problem with it. Especially since in many ways Poison is actually stronger without AGG (you can do things other than Agg). Further, it isn't strong compared to the other AGG attacks because it isn't ranged and is so slow.

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The White Rat:The above means that if you have Stamina 5, M-Stamina 5, Quantum 5, and Poison 5 - everything totally maxed out - you can pull out around 13 successes on average. Call it 15, since M-Attributes are kind of weird statistically.
I'd rather call it 13 since with 15 dice they tend to even out... but let's call it 15.

So what?

Yes, this is a large amount of Aggravated damage, but the character has about 50 nova points on that. If he had Disinteration (which would cost the same) with M-Dex 5 (ditto), he'd be putting out the same kind of damage, all at once, at a range. With Poison, if you have Regen, or ANY kind of access to a Healer, you live. So any one who has backing from Utopia, DeVries, the Teragen, etc.

--EDIT--

And I forgot, that 13 levels of AGG damage is before defenses, which every character or NPC has. Presumably everyone pays willpower so that drops it by one. All novas have at least 3 dots of Resist, most have a 5 stamina, and lots have Mega-Stamina. Even with 13 levels I expect lots of people would survive, which certainly isn't the case with Disin.
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The White Rat:
Actually, with disintegration, you need a Quantum of 5, whereas with poison, you only need a Quantum of 1. This does decrease the cost of getting poison, because you do not need to pay for the 4 extra dots of Quantum.

Call it a poor man's version of disintegration.
Very Poor. That Q of 1 limites you to Mega-Stamina 2 and only gives you 1 auto succ as well.

Instead of 13 succ, MAXED OUT you'd have 6.8 succ, which means with a great deal of luck you *might* kill a below average baseline (typically Joe Baseline would take 5 or less AGG damage).

The typical nova would get four or so succ to oppose this so you'd have NO chance to kill them with one power use. Even dropping it on them 3 times would be problematic... and that assumes they don't have regeneration, access to a Healer, Hardbody+Adapt, or Health.
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Another couple of questions: If the damage being done is from disease and not poison, would that then spread the damage over days instead of hours.

If you were to infect a baseline or nova with a disease like Ebola, how would the damage mechanics work, considering it would be ~70% fatal?

Would a baseline take a level of lethal damage every day until dead, or would it depend of the number of successes rolled?

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If we are still talking about Poison + AGG, then I strongly suspect the character would lose the other poison abilities (giving up versitility for power). This is especially true since the normal diseases you could inflict wouldn't do Agg damage (Poison lets you infect people, what the disease does is its own business).

If we are talking about Poison the power, then the disease varients don't do damage as such (although that would be a good way to represent it).

Example: "Carrier Joe" has the poison power, and uses it on Bob Baseline. He rolls well, uses 5(? book not here) succ to give Joe Ebola. I don't remember whether or not this is a resisted roll.

For ease of talking I'm going to assume that Ebola basically works like that killer plague in "Outbreak". Bob is fine for 8 hours, then feels slightly ill, colapses a day or so later, and then proceeds to die over the next 2 or 3 days. God help his family since he may have infected them.

If this were normal Ebola, then he might be able to reach medical care in time to do something about it... or that might just help his family. Let's assume a "great" roll, and that the ST rules this Ebola is drug resistant.

Now let's apply the same effect to Dr. Troll. Troll has M-Stamina 4 with Health. Before he even rolls his nova resistance, 4 levels of virilance are removed from the disease, dropping it's effect from a 5 (Ebola) to a 1 (Common Cold). Presumably it's still the ebola bug, it's just the worst that can happen to him isn't very bad. The book doesn't speak to what happens if Troll accidently gives it to someone else... but fortuanately since he's rolling 13 dice the chances of him resisting this are pretty good.

(I think) The book also doesn't speak to whether or not the Resistance roll is resisted. If Joe made his Ebola with 3 succ over and above what he needed, does that impose a difficulty on the resistance roll? Unclear, which means ST's choice (I lean towards "Perhaps, but it becomes more resistant to medicine first"). It's worth noting that most Novas are rolling at least 8 resistance dice, which implies 3 succ without willpower.

Note imposing a difficulty to the resistance roll doesn't negate Health. Even if Troll botches his roll (or if the difficulty is high enough he fails it), the worst that can happen to him is he gets a fever and runny nose.

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The book says that the victim resists with a Resistance role. Net successes are compare to the chart. One success is a minor nonfatal disease like cold and influenza. Two successes are major non-fatal diseases like fevers and chickenpox. Three equate to fatal diseases like HIV, Malaria, Anthrax, Bubonic Plague, Tuberculosis and Leprosy. And finally, four net successes will give the victim an extremely fatal disease like the Hemorrhagic Fevers (Ebola, Marburg, Lhasa), and Hanta Virus.

So if your victim is infected with an extremely fatal disease, which is viral in nature and therefore un-treatable by anti-biotics, they would most likely die (~70% fatality rate). I suppose a nova with the healing ability would be able to eliminate the virus from them and cure them (with enough successes).

Also, it would seem that the disease would be non-transmittable because if it was, it would be almost identical, save the area of effect, to the level 4 power Disease Authority. I think that the level 4 power would be the one that could start outbreaks that ended up spreading. The Level 2 power Poison might just limit the disease to the those directly affected.

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The White Rat:The book says that the victim resists with a Resistance role. Net successes are compare to the chart....
Thanks, my book isn't in front of me and it's been a while.

Also on a side note most of the stuff for virilance is (oddly) in AB:WWI (first section with Gabby's power).

On a side note, that's only for direct infection from the originating nova. I'd assume that other people have to resist the orignal disease (i.e. if you are exposed to ebola you can't get the chickenpox). Further, remember that most diseases aren't easily spread.

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The White Rat:I suppose a nova with the healing ability would be able to eliminate the virus from them and cure them (with enough successes).
Actually No. Doing something like this would require a powermax for that Extra in the APG. Without that, you have that level 4 power from the APG and/or Health (which only works on yourself). You can't even use Health + Attune since attune doesn't work on enhancements.

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The White Rat:Also, it would seem that the disease would be non-transmittable because if it was, it would be almost identical, save the area of effect, to the level 4 power Disease Authority. I think that the level 4 power would be the one that could start outbreaks that ended up spreading. The Level 2 power Poison might just limit the disease to the those directly affected.
As far as I know there is nothing to suggest that people with ebola (or whatever) can't infect other people. Of course ebola isn't easily transmitted (I think it's direct blood to blood, but that's not my field). Of course Poison's real problem is it's one person effect. If you really want to start plagues you should buy it with Area.
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A Poison-originated disease could arguably be described as a quantum construct - you cause someone to suffer the effects of the disease (possibly down to the creation of microorganisms), but it isn't really the disease.

Similar to Quantum Construct, or Matter Creation. It isn't 'real' - it's just temporarily made from quantum energy.

Of course, this is simply a rationalization of why you couldn't create a plague of smallpox with a Q1 power.

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Giving Poison: disease (area extra) is in fact one of the ideas I had in mind. I was going to cross link it with another area effect power (Q-Vamp: Dex) to work simultaneously with no die penalties (it would be a level 2 power that way). Those who were drained of that ability would later become sick from a disease.

The other idea was to cross-link Poison with Q-Imprint, so that when he copied their powers, he would either stun (1:1) them or lower their die pools (1:2). Because the cross-link w/ simultaneous activation is 5 levels of weakness, the die pool could be increased by 5 making Poison even more effective, or reducing it to level one in cost. This was how the agg idea was going to work, but it doesn't as effective as it first seemed.

Would these be effective powers to use, or would you have suggestions that would be more effective?

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April Rice: A Poison-originated disease could arguably be described as a quantum construct - you cause someone to suffer the effects of the disease (possibly down to the creation of microorganisms), but it isn't really the disease.

There is a power that does this, it's one of the techniques of Bio-Manipulation in AB:WWI. Poison appears to be the real deal.

April Rice: Of course, this is simply a rationalization of why you couldn't create a plague of smallpox with a Q1 power.

The few times I've seen this power the nova hasn't been "creating" the disease on the spot. He's been storing it inside his body, culturing it, and then releasing it on command.

The White Rat: Giving Poison: disease (area extra) is in fact one of the ideas I had in mind. I was going to cross link it with another area effect power (Q-Vamp: Dex) to work simultaneously with no die penalties (it would be a level 2 power that way). Those who were drained of that ability would later become sick from a disease.

That's an interesting idea. Be warned however, making your PC into a walking Bio-Hazzard is one of the few things that will draw harsh attention from Project Pro. You might not want to mix a power that draws attention with Poison + Area.

The White Rat: The other idea was to cross-link Poison with Q-Imprint, so that when he copied their powers, he would either stun (1:1) them or lower their die pools (1:2).

If you run with a crew of novas, this combo would mean they won't let you mimic their abilities (and they'd be target #1 without it).

The White Rat: Because the cross-link w/ simultaneous activation is 5 levels of weakness, the die pool could be increased by 5 making Poison even more effective, or reducing it to level one in cost. This was how the agg idea was going to work, but it doesn't as effective as it first seemed.

3 levels. You can't mix those two weaknesses.

One says: Power A and Power B MUST turn on at the same time.

The other says: Power A MUST be on BEFORE Power B can turn on.

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I re-read the parts about cross linked powers and you are right, in the one case the powers have to be on already. However, that would not preclude other weaknesses like target restriction or lower die pools and such.

As for Q-imprinting allies, due to the nature of the character in question's powers (Q-vamp:Dex + area) it is already unlikely that he would run with other novas. Therefore the majority of his Targets being imprinted would be those who were still standing after his Q-vamp.

As for Proteus coming after him for his area effect disease, he really doesn't care as a character. Although I, as the player, would like to see him have a lengthy lifespan. It still might be possible for him to hide and ally himself with the Harvesters after initiating a series of outbreaks in the baseline population.

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Impervious armor would not work against aggravated poison, because poison ignores force fields and armor. Adaptability and Health allow for a (Stamina+Resistance) role to soak (of course all novas would get three die or more worth of soak from Resistance (not Stam+Resistance).

Impervious armor would be great against Disintegration, aggravated Q-blast, and agg claws, as well as any armor piercing attacks. It would not soak damage from Mental Blast: agg, or Poison: agg.

At least that is how I would interpret the rules.

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"Adaptability and Health allow for a (Stamina+Resistance) role to soak ..."

Adaptability allows one to soak with Stamina and M-Stamina. The Stamina+Resistance roll isn't part of that - this is available to anyone.

Health either does similar, or it reduces successes - this is uncertain, since there isn't anything in the Poison description that specifically refers to a virulence rating, which Health normally mitigates.

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I've had a chance to look up the rules (finally), and here are relevent quotes.

RE: Adaptability

"...She is automatically immune to most poisons... against... nova-derived poisons, she gains an extra six soak or Resistance dice..."

In almost all cases the extra soak would be prefered. However, if the nova in question has Adapt and does NOT have Hardbody, then she would still those extra Resistance dice. Aggravated damage ignores soak, not defenses, so Adapt would still help quite a bit.

RE: Impervious

"Impervious soak is not reduced by Armor Piercing, and it converts any aggravated damage into normal lethal damage..."

Armor doesn't apply any soak to this situation, so it never gets a chance to do anything. The "Impervious soak" in question is to other things. Just like INV:Fire + Impervious wouldn't reduce the Armor Piercing effect of an AP Kenetic power.

Which isn't to say it couldn't come up. Someone could buy INV:Poisons + Impervious and that would convert the Aggravated damage to lethal as well as granting 6 soak.

RE: Soak

The only ways of getting soak against Poison + Aggravated is with (Adaptability + Hardbody) or with relevent Invulnerability. That's it. Health doesn't supply soak.

RE: Resistance

This is a normal ability roll, so Stamina and Mega-Stamina would apply.

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"The only ways of getting soak against Poison + Aggravated is with (Adaptability + Hardbody) or with relevent Invulnerability. That's it. Health doesn't supply soak."

That's not so certain. Health hadn't been invented when the rule for Adaptability granting soak was written. Since Health also grants resistance to poison, it's sensible that it would also grant resistance as per the rule in Poison.

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And the real kicker of the Resistance roll is that it is pretty undefined. What's the exact wording? It can negate the Poison effect 'in whole or in part?' Something like that.

Given that this is an unmoderated forum, that could mean that Poison always works well when used in White Rat fics, but almost never works when applied to another PC.

Incidentally, I think that the rules for pairing powers without dice penalties are crap - it almost always results in a net benefit for the player. But they're in the book, so ... whatever.

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Quote:
RE: Resistance
This is a normal ability roll, so Stamina and Mega-Stamina would apply.
and then later

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What rule in Poison are you refering too? ...ah... Novas with Adapt may, at the ST's option, apply their Stamina/Mega-Stamina as soak.

...hm...

I'd say no, but I'd let everyone apply a resistance roll.
I don't know if I am misunderstanding you or not, but if everyone gets a Resistance roll and they get to add Stam+Mega-Stam, isn't that the same thing as rolling Stam+Mega-Stam for soak in novas with Adaptability. It would seem that in both cases they are getting a soak. Why require Adaptability if the die roll for Resistance provides the same benefit?
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Nope - the Resistance roll is an entirely different defense. Reread the last paragraph of Poison.

Adaptability allows you to soak Poison with Stamina (it also grants further resistance to nova-derived poisons, as per the rules in the Adaptability description).

Additionally, a Resistance roll may be made by anyone to 'counteract a poison's effects (in whole or in part).' That is not soak - it simply does what it says.

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So, if you fail in your Resistance roll, the poison takes effect and then you see how much damage you would take? Of course you would then soak that damage with Adaptability if you had it.

I think I understand what the Resistance roll is for. It is to see if the poison is strong enough to hurt a person.

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Page 214: ...A nova with the Adaptability enhancement may soak poison effects with his Stamina/Mega-Stamina soak; at the Storyteller's option, a Resistance roll may help to counteract a poison's effects (in whole or in part)...."

I don't like this "only Stamina soak applies" part. It's the only place in any of the books where this mechanic is used, and it makes the already too powerful enhancement Adaptability even more powerful. Further, Adapt is already giving 6 soak against this, adding another 3 to 20 soak on top of that seems over the top.

If I were ST I'd choose to parse that sentance so that the "optional" rule they talk to is the Stamina soak, and the rule actually used would be the resistance roll (i.e. it would be a resisted power for both effects) which is standard for this type of power anyway.

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I think you are looking for something wrong with it, good Dr.

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I don't like this "only Stamina soak applies" part. It's the only place in any of the books where this mechanic is used,
There is no other power that does the same job as poison in the book. You could make the same arguement about Mental Blast (if I remember correctly, you use your WP for soak).,,
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it makes the already too powerful enhancement Adaptability even more powerful. Further, Adapt is already giving 6 soak against this,
You are also making too much of adaptability. It only applies to your environment. This is the only attack afaik that it can be used for at all. It gives you no extra soak agenst any other attack. At all. And even this it will only give you between 2 and 10 (I think is the max for a 5stm and 5mstm character, I could be wrong) soak to an attack that goes off the same attribute.,,
Quote:
If I were ST I'd choose to parse that sentance so that the "optional" rule they talk to is the Stamina soak, and the rule actually used would be the resistance roll (i.e. it would be a resisted power for both effects) which is standard for this type of power anyway.
If you were ST, sure you could do that, but you would be changing the rules. I dont remember any where in the book that says Resistance is soak. The resistance it talks about in Posion is the stave off the effects of a long term desiese.
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Troll: I don't like this "only Stamina soak applies" part. It's the only place in any of the books where this mechanic is used,

Bahamut810: There is no other power that does the same job as poison in the book. You could make the same arguement about Mental Blast (if I remember correctly, you use your WP for soak).

No. Mental Blast is a resisted power (by willpower), just like most others. Just like some elements of poison.

Troll: it makes the already too powerful enhancement Adaptability even more powerful. Further, Adapt is already giving 6 soak against this,

Bahamut810:You are also making too much of adaptability. It only applies to your environment. This is the only attack afaik that it can be used for at all. It gives you no extra soak agenst any other attack. At all. And even this it will only give you between 2 and 10 (I think is the max for a 5stm and 5mstm character, I could be wrong) soak to an attack that goes off the same attribute.

“Environment”? You don’t eat, sleep, drink, breath, or age. On top of that you can survive in any environment. And on top of THAT you get basically a level of INV:Poisons and totally immune to even nova poisons. The first question is why should it be granting soak to any attack at all. The next question is why the level of soak is so insanely high.

Let’s look at the math: Assume the Adaptive nova has Stamina 5 and Mega-Stamina 1, and that he doesn’t have the stamina soak doubling enhancements.

A Poison attack doing bashing damage needs:

12 succ to go through a nova with Adaptability’s “6 soak”.

12 succ to go through the novas Stamina soak (total of 24 succ so far).

After that he starts giving bashing damage. So basically Adapt grants immunity to both Poison and Poison + MASTERY right out of the box.

And this is without the Resistance roll, which he still might get, with bare bones M-stamina one. With M-Stamina 5 and Res x2, the Adaptive nova would soak the first 52 succ.

To put these numbers in perspective, 24 succ is roughly equivalent to 4 dots of INV. 52 succ is about 9 dots of INV.

Lethal damage is even harder to do. Adding in Stamina soak is broken and unneeded considering Adapt’s other bonuses. Like I said, it should be a standard resisted power, and it’s partly written as such.

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No. Mental Blast is a resisted power (by willpower), just like most others. Just like some elements of poison.
My mistake. That still dosent change the rule though, and the wording is very clear.

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And on top of THAT you get basically a level of INV:Poisons and totally immune to even nova poisons. The first question is why should it be granting soak to any attack at all. The next question is why the level of soak is so insanely high.
You are not *totally* Immune. You get 6 soak from them or 6 successes from them(just went and re-read that). That is only from non-attacks. Poison is a 'nova attack', and that 6 soak is not counted for it. The only thing it will do to posion is allow a nova to soak with his Stm soak (as stated in the power).

While this portion is a little poorly worded, it is safe to assume that when they say "Nova Derived Posions" they mean Mox, amp wells and poisons that are cooked up by a m-int nova, especially since it says they Adaptability will confer them their Stm Bonues (nothing about the 6 soak beucase this is, after all, a direct nova attack).

As for the eating, sleeping and all that. All that would affect is your pocket book. That is not too major, and wont come into play (i.e. be important) very often.

For environmental issues, the APG covers that in saying that you can do it the base way (you are immune) or the ST can do it according to M-Stm score (so a m-stm 1 may have to pay some QP per turn to sit in the sun). Again, its not too major an effect. In your average game adaptability enhancement wont come directly into play very often at all.
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RE: Adaptability

"...She is automatically immune to most poisons... against... nova-derived poisons, she gains an extra six soak or Resistance dice..."

RE: Poison Page 214:

...A nova with the Adaptability enhancement may soak poison effects with his Stamina/Mega-Stamina soak; at the Storyteller's option, a Resistance roll may help to counteract a poison's effects (in whole or in part)...."

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Bahamut810:As for the eating, sleeping and all that. All that would affect is your pocket book. That is not too major, and wont come into play (i.e. be important) very often.
It gives you access to space, and deep water. It largely removes being ambushed while asleep. It removes gas, radiation, etc attacks. Temporal Manipulators can’t effectively age you. If you pile on the “rare” events large and long enough, sooner or later they aren’t rare events.,,,,
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Bahamut810: You are not *totally* Immune. You get 6 soak from them or 6 successes from them(just went and re-read that). That is only from non-attacks. Poison is a 'nova attack', and that 6 soak is not counted for it. The only thing it will do to posion is allow a nova to soak with his Stm soak (as stated in the power).

While this portion is a little poorly worded, it is safe to assume that when they say "Nova Derived Posions" they mean Mox, amp wells and poisons that are cooked up by a m-int nova, especially since it says they Adaptability will confer them their Stm Bonues (nothing about the 6 soak beucase this is, after all, a direct nova attack).

From non attacks you are totally immune (see above). Actual attacks, or “Nova Derived Poisons” might include Mega-Int creations, but it’s also certainly going to include use of the Poison power. For that matter, Mega-Int creations would most likely be gadget creations using the Poison rules.

What I think happened is both the Poison power and Adaptability intended to allow Adapt to give a little soak against Poison. The problem occurred when they (presumably accidentally) based that soak off of different things. So instead of one set of soak we ended up with two. As the rules read, it will take someone with the Poison power 24+ to 52+ succ in order to affect someone with Adaptability with Poison. But to affect them with a disease only requires that you over come an extra 6 dice (1.2 succ).

Automatically Resisting the first 24 to 52 succ doesn't seem reasonable.

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