Courier Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Quote:...it is tough to make some concepts on less than 30...There are many concepts that require 45 or even 60+. As a rule of thumb maybe four concepts die on the drawing board for that reason before I find one that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z028 Riley Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Fox, if you want a 20 or 25 NP game, then let it be that. I'll cry as I cut down Kyria even more, but I'd rather have a fun game with room to grow than start out more powerful and loose steam more quickly.An option on that power level, too, might be to cut out Mega's, and just have enhancements and powers. This cuts down the number of things to spend points on and takes away some of the over-the-top superhuman effect. You can duplicate most megas with some power, and again it removes the 5 auto successes on rolls. That or let Megas be but at a 1 auto success per level instead of 5 per level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joani Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 After following the discussion I will take up the offer (if it still stands) to continue Joani's story on LM and if any one of the old crew wants to talk about possible connections/interactions we can do that here. My idea is not dependent on interaction with other PCs but having a kind of "hub" or "base" where we can meet or communicate with each other would be nice nonetheless.At the same time I won't be joining Stargate since the setting doesn't appeal to me (I was never that fond of the series).If you decide to axe LM that's fine, too. I prefer you ending it and keeping it in good memory than let it slowly creep to death due to lack of interest or activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I only saw the first SG movie and the series seemed kinda cheese...maybe not in concept but in execution. Or maybe I just need to watch it from the beginning.What is this about being able to port Cody over?And yeah...part of the reason I was bummed is because alot of my favorite unplayed concepts are in the 50-60 range but the only place those see play these days is open forums where I am less motivated. Writing a cool story on my own can be more of a chore for me than posting for a game.Here is an idea that might interest me: using the Nova rules but defining it as something other than a nova, like an alien or a cyborg or a dragon. Or to get more mileage out of the fact that we gamed to a point where successfully CONQUERD TAINT! OMGZORZ! Maybe we could have more NPs...but no taint or discount for taint. I have to squeeze alot of my concepts by with taint. Especially for the Q5 ones...I save probably an average of 8-10 NPs via taint buys. That means my 50 point novas are really 60 points untainted...Hard to do alot of the cooler combos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Murphy Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Joani - if you want or need to collaborate with me during your wrap up I'm more than willing to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joani Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I take that offer, thank you. First thing that comes to mind would be the administration of the cure which is something Joani is scared to death of. There was a nightmare she had as you remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Murphy Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 yeah, back in the old "Crazy Andrew" days ... I miss those days I'm game for whatever, perhaps something between you me and Ulric? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fox Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Keep in mind Sky that if you port the character over you would have to trim him down to 25 nps, and he'd lose all his cool extra dimensional gadgets. I would think you'd rather retire the character as a near deity than reset like that. I know I would in your place. After all, how often can you say that your character became able to mold reality to your liking at whim? As for LM. I will be wrapping things up pretty soon once we sort out who all is doing what. However, I am not really keeping the game itself running so much as helping Joani tell the story she wants to tell. And any of the rest of you that feel the need for more closure and have a story in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameson (ST) Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I may write something for Andrew but I'm not sure that there is much in the way of need for it anymore. I am around if others want him in their stories tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Moss Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Ulric would be interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I may have several things left for Omar. He has unfinished business back in his home timeline, mainly that of his ward. He might take the teen with him on some adventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Wait so now we are going from 35 NPs to 25?!?!?What happened to the loyal player bonus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I feel like I am losing all of my fun Aberrant games.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Guys I hate to say it but I think you lost me. I am truly sad about this since i love Fox's storytelling and LM was the second PbP I ever joined. For one thing I have no idea about the SG universe outside the first movei so alot of the names and races everyone is throwing out are over my head. That and I have no real low powered concpets aside from the one I am looking at for the dead rising reboot.I can't say I am honestly *angry* about losing all my hard earned xp..I mean it's only a gmae and I'll get over it. However dissapointed is maybe more like what I am feeling.On the other hand its the first time I have ever been in a chronicle that reached completion and retirement on a campaign as well as on a character level.Perhaps at some point I will rent the SG tv series and feel more inspired but for now I shall bow out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fox Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 I understand Sky. If you ever change your mind you will be welcomed to join, and like I tell everyone else, don't feel that lack of knowledge on the series is a barrier. Look at that as an opportunity. Gives you much greater sense of discovery as you explore the SG universe. Though if you ever do rent the series, I definitely recommend sticking it out through at least the third season. The first season or two they were still hitting their stride and didn't really have it all together.And yeah, we scaled back to 20 nps starting for new players and 25 for you guys in order to make things more challenging and give the characters more room for growth. As you know, I'm pretty generous on xp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Wow guys. I guess thats it for Cody and the Long March. I am feeling totally sad and wistful and nostalgic right now..that terrible and wonderful feeling when you read the last words of a novel and put the book down. its almost like the end of a relationship. And yeah, I actually cried a little when writing Cody's farewell post. I love you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fox Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 Glad it had impact. I'm not quite done here. I still need to wrap things up, but I wanted to get things ramped up in the new game before I do that. Should be giving LM a little attention this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Moss Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Joani, do you want to do anything else with Joani and Ulric? Ulric has burning plans for revenge, but is worried about his wife too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 How come Ulric is so mad? Its not like anyone took choices away from him. Quite contrary to be fair...we were given access to infinite realities. Those realities existed whether we access or not so it is a powerful gift. What did the Watchers do again that was so heinous?If you want revenge it should be against Michael for messing with Joani and Cody and manipulating all of us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Moss Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Michael is symbolic of the over-all problem, not the sole source of ills in the Timescape. Something needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Can you clarify? What ills are you speaking of? All possible realities exist. Is it that Ulric wants to apply his ideals of Unity to the entire Megaverse? Such a thing is by definition impossible since everything includes realities where unity is not present. If he tried to force his ideals on the Megasverse (even if that was possible) he would be the worst dictaor and tyrant ever? Or maybe thats not what you mean, but please clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Moss Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 In Ulric's mind, all the Unity Movement did was create a world were Michael could easily rule through his mastery of Telepathy.All the Watchers are is a bunch of self-congratulitory, meddlesome Monsters. They think nothing of wiping memories to their whim and changing worlds to their desires. Having proven they are not Gods, they have shown themselves to be Monsters. Nothing more.Ulric was a soldier who grew into a man who hated tyranny in all its forms. This is tyranny in its worst form he's ever encountered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fox Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 The watchers are the same as Michael. They are only on a very small number of the overall timelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joani Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Originally Posted By: Adrian MossJoani, do you want to do anything else with Joani and Ulric? Ulric has burning plans for revenge, but is worried about his wife too. I've got several ideas and plans but that all depends on how much Fox is willing to put time into this. I can do most of the writing myself (or in collaboration) but there is still need for a ST I suppose.I wasn't sure which way/path you would want to go with Ulric. I felt that both have somewhat drifted away from eachother (although that is more lack of chance to interact with each other imho). Joani still loves Ulric but she isn't sure if he would/should follow her.We can discuss here or via PM any further ideas on how to move on. Even if LM turns into an open-style game or we splinter of as some kind of "mini-series" in the LM-Universe. The Stargate game isn't my cup of tea and if there is a chance to continue with Joani in LM I will and if not - well then it ends.In response to Skylion - Michael is not the "problem" per se. It's more how the Watchers work imho (but that's very much reduced to the core if it. It's more complicated of course). Maybe I can explain better in a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Originally Posted By: Adrian MossIn Ulric's mind, all the Unity Movement did was create a world were Michael could easily rule through his mastery of Telepathy.All the Watchers are is a bunch of self-congratulitory, meddlesome Monsters. They think nothing of wiping memories to their whim and changing worlds to their desires. Having proven they are not Gods, they have shown themselves to be Monsters. Nothing more.Ulric was a soldier who grew into a man who hated tyranny in all its forms. This is tyranny in its worst form he's ever encountered. Huh? Who's memories did they meddle with. You can't say Meri because technically Meri is a Watcher who voluntarily altered her own memories for the experience of it. They haven't changed worlds...they don't need to. They can go to or create whatever reality they desire since they can surf upon the Sea of All. They are as godlike as anything else, essentially having Q10 and Universe Creation. Perhaps there is yet a greater almighty deity or perhaps not.All they did really and this wasn't to Ulric was to banish a few of us old heads from our home timelines because they didn't want us meddling. Heinous perhaps but look at the adventure we gained! Without the apearance of the Cabal it is unlikely that Ulric's homeworld would have achieved the Unity he so desired.Can you be more specific of exactly which evil you see them as having commited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Moss Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I think I have been clear enough, as it is also clear that you merely can't accept my character's reasonings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You haven't been clear.Your statements:1.) Ulric wants revengeI ask for why2.) You respond saying they are meddlesome monsters. They have wiped memories and changing worlds to their whim.It is my understanding that they have done nothing of the sort that you accuse them of. Whos memory have they wiped? Aside from creating whole new universes, how have they meddled?I asked you for specifics and you have given me none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Moss Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Whose minds have the screwed with? Meri and Lorean, plus Ulric doesn't believe they haven't screwed with minds on the very world everyone is standing on.Their actions with the original crew and his new world show they are meddlesome. Their actions spun off the people that became the Cabal, leading to the Unity, which lead to Michael's ascendence: Michael being a right bastard the cabal helped empower.Do I need to go into how many minds Michael played with?Ulric doesn't need to get the ID of specific people they have screwed with. Their actions to date speaks volumes to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Cool. Just wanted to get where you (Ukric rather) were coming from. And again, they didn't mindwipe Meri or Lorean...they were both Watchers who VOLUNTARILY wiped their own minds to have a particular experience as is the way of their culture. It is hard to judge oter cultures by our own standards which is what I was getting at. They themselves have stated that they do not meddle, that free will is important to them and that they do not interfere.Meri wasn't mind wiped. Meri is a mask worn by a Watcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Moss Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 So they say.Of course the Watcher respect free will. Of course they never use force to coerce people or governments. Of course they never do anything bad. Keep believing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Nah...that was US man! We often see our own reflections when we look at the world after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyLion Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 How come Ulric never plotted revenge against Cody for assasinating Stalin or Hitler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Moss Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 If you remember, that happened before he came in and then he took your words, as senior members, that it was necessary. Ulric doesn't claim to be perfect and without sin. He sees no reason to follow in the same vein though. He wants to make existance a better, freer place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joani Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'm going to try to explain my take on this. I do agree with everything Ulric said which kind of relieves me since I wasn't sure if I was the only one to have this pov.The Watchers - for whatever reason, lets say boredom - have grown extremely inhuman. They may be free of taint and all the other "negative" effects having become godlike creatures. But doesn't give them any rights. Now the question could arise that the creator of a new reality/world should be the one calling the shots/making the rules and here starts the double moral standards. Somehow they are doomed to become monstrous tyrants. They've grown so detached from humanity that they don't seem to understand that free will should not be tampered with.Unfortunately Skylion, we missed the chance to have a nice talk short after the Caroline case. I sent you a PM back then but never got a reply and you "disappeared" for a few days/weeks after that. Things had taken a wholly different path from there on. I don't mean to complain - the story took a very interesting twist for me and I've grown into it. Actually it had become Joanis central theme.But if you look at it, Joanis life was an illusion. Almost all of it. She had become an idea more than a real person. She held on to that for most of her life ignoring the truth and not giving it much thought because that would lead back to the dark places of her past - and to the Watchers eventually. The Watchers solution to Joani's situation would have her merge with the others and simply forget about it. It's just another experience which adds to the collective - done.And that is wrong in my book. Very wrong. I know you'll claim that no one has ever been forced to do anything against their will and that we weren't better on Ulric's/Joani's homeworld creating the united society. And I tell you you're right about that. Joani was constantly struggling with that fact up to a point where she considered leaving the cabal. I can't quite remember who it was, but I think it was Steve who stated in a matter of factly that I had become the ideal citizen of that society and being part of the cabal was rather damaging to her. Joani couldn't accept most of the decisions, she had to respect them and cope with it.Now everything has been taken away and what is left are ruins. I'm not sure who to fully blame for this, but I place my bet on the Watchers. Taking revenge isn't the right thing to do though. But standing up and fighting it, that's an option. The Watchers are just a different kind of alien threat. The kind you won't see coming until it's too late.My story-idea is more about mending and less about revenge. Fighting the Watchers directly is futile imho. The only thing Joani can do is turn her back on this and never look back, find a place which the Watchers have grown bored of and try to live a "normal" life. If Ulric comes with her the better for her but she would go without him if he would choose differently. She doesn't have the strength to fight this anymore.I hope this explains things a little better - and remember, this is just my take on the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalmonMax Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'm not sure what the Watchers are doing, specifically, to earn the hate. Granted, it's an alien lifestyle they've settled into, and one that has some squick factor, but I don't see them taking slaves or meddling a whole lot with other folks.GenesisWorld certainly has been affected by Genesis, but unless he chose to be completely secret, which really limits his options, he has little choice but to have some effect on the world. Honestly, if it were me, I'd probably set up a nexus like that somewhere without indigenous life...but I don't see much evidence that Genesis is having a negative or immoral impact on the world in and of himself.Meredith is an anomaly. The Watchers as a whole should not be judged because of her, or her reactions to things. Not to say that's what you're doing...I am just stating my opinion on this subject. I do mean to write up an ending to Meri's story...but it will take some time.Now bear in mind I'm not real familiar with the backgrounds of the other PC's, so if there's other Watcher-related stuff that went down in the past, I am not including that in my analysis. That said, I don't see anything they're doing, on the whole, that strikes me as tyrannical or controlling.Though certainly the possibility exists that one or more Watchers might decide to go that way and set up petty godhoods out there in the dimensional cul de sacs out of view of their comrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameson (ST) Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Well the original members were forcibly displaced by the watchers which kind of doesn't make sense to me still but *shrug* what do I know? Ulric's logic seems to be that that initial meddling is was (indirectly) led to Mikey becoming the grand poohbah on Ulric's earth's future (at least one possible leg of it).This is where I'd mention the futility of cross time travel in a many worlds megaverse but I think I need not go into that in depth once more. Suffice to say Carter (my original PC) is probably much better off having gotten off the boat as early as he did. Andrew is the curious sort but he's quite put off by the inhuman nature of the watchers, he has after all spent every last ounce of effort to retain that which makes him human over these long years. Who's right and who's wrong? Beats me, but I think we've definitely reached a point where the group is naturally going to splinter apart. I'm torn as to whether Andrew should settle down or if he should continue wandering the megaverse ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courier Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Quote:In Ulric's mind, all the Unity Movement did was create a world were Michael could easily rule through his mastery of Telepathy.Yah, I noticed that too.I think it's worse than that. Current theory says we *accidentally* created the dog simply by pulling them into our orbit. Steve doesn't think Mike took over deliberately, he thinks he took over accidentally.Quote:Having proven they are not Gods, they have shown themselves to be Monsters.Ulric's logic seems to be that that initial meddling is was (indirectly) led to Mikey becoming the grand poohbah on Ulric's earth's future (at least one possible leg of it).I think "Gods" is the right word.The problem is it's simply not possible to square the conflicting concepts of "free will" with "God watching over us and taking care of us". I don't think being 'god' means taking responsibility over every creatures' action....Although this might be a conversation we should have IC.Quote:Well the original members were forcibly displaced by the watchers which kind of doesn't make sense to me still but *shrug* what do I know?Very true. At the same time they could have erased our memories or whatever. But I'm willing to take it a step further and suggest the only reason they did this was to entrust Lorean to us. She was hurt and needed someone to grow with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fox Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Quote:They've grown so detached from humanity that they don't seem to understand that free will should not be tampered with.Actually, their prime directive if you will is to avoid tampering with free will. The whole reason they banished the PCs from their home timeline is that they refused to just tamper with their minds.The watchers didn't have anything to do with Joani's situation. That was all Michael and Caroline. Yes, Lorean was there, but she wasn't aware of her secret nature.Quote:...but I don't see much evidence that Genesis is having a negative or immoral impact on the world in and of himself.Actually, if you took the time to study the Genesis timeline you'd find that the overall effect is quite positive. The world is moving toward peace and prosperity and Genesis isn't doing anything to force that to happen. Sure, his actions are having consequences, but he could easily do what the Cabal did and tweak politicians and others to force compliance to a 'right' way, but he isn't doing that. He's using political and social pressure to bring about change. But then everyone has that option by voting. He just has a lot more influence as the Sovereign of a nation.Quote:Granted, it's an alien lifestyle they've settled into, and one that has some squick factor, but I don't see them taking slaves or meddling a whole lot with other folks.Thanks! I intentionally built in the squick factor to show just how much perspective can change given time. Just look at our own American culture in the last 100 years. Used to be that marrying 13 and 14 year old girls was just peachy, in fact 18 or 20 year olds were considered old maids. Those of color were second class citizens and everyone (caucasian) thought that was right and proper. Sex outside of marriage? etc, etc, etc... Anyway, I'm glad you guys got what I was trying to do and that it came across. Quote:Ulric's logic seems to be that that initial meddling is was (indirectly) led to Mikey becoming the grand poohbah on Ulric's earth's future (at least one possible leg of it).True. From a certain perspective it is their fault since they set the ball in motion. However, thousands of people have been electrocuted since the 'invention' of electricity, but does that make Tesla and Edison and Ben Franklin evil? Far more good has been done than evil, imho. Same with their actions that led to Mikey becoming ascendant. As a whole, far far more people have been helped and have lived incredible lives of peace and happiness as a result of the Cabal and even Mikey than have been hurt by them. Of course that doesn't feel so great if you were one of the people that died of electrocution.Quote:But I'm willing to take it a step further and suggest the only reason they did this was to entrust Lorean to us. She was hurt and needed someone to grow with.This too is another facet of the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameson (ST) Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Originally Posted By: Mr FoxQuote:They've grown so detached from humanity that they don't seem to understand that free will should not be tampered with.Actually, their prime directive if you will is to avoid tampering with free will. The whole reason they banished the PCs from their home timeline is that they refused to just tamper with their minds.So instead of tampering with free will they gave a group of people the means to muck about in time and space but without any of the knowledge or wisdom to do it correctly? Oh and they FORCED them to be unable to return home (oops there goes the free will to just go home again). Nope sorry, personally I'm not buying it, the Watcher (cause I don't care how nutty he is he's still just 1 being) has proven to not live up to his own standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fox Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I see preventing someone from physically doing something as different than mucking about with someone's mind making them not remember they have a timeline to go back to or removing the memories of that timeline from them. The free will is still there with you guys. You could always develop the power to go there yourselves without Lorean's aid. Thus your free will is preserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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