Aberrant RPG - Re: RiS

[Vixen]

It looks like I managed to piss quite a few people off with this fiction piece. I'd like to take a moment to say that this was never my intention, and that if I managed to violate a forum rule without realizing it, then I legitimately am sorry and I will accept whatever the moderators deem appropriate.

If anyone out there has questions about the piece, or requires an explanation for anything that went down in it, I'll be happy to answer here. And if it's require I remove it altogether and erase the followup RP post on the OpNet board, I will do this as well. And again: I'm sorry.

[Gerald Haney]

I'm not pissed, I just kinda disagree with how you presented Geryon and the interaction.

I misunderstood some of the stuff you were trying and your PM back to me helped me understand that and thanks for that.

Basically though, I just don't think Geryon should have been presented as a pushover. You used The Voice on him and that's all well and good, but The Voice isn't domination and it can be resisted. Geryon is pretty tough, probably has bunches of Willpower and very likely would have spent a willpower point to shake off the attempt to get him to dorm down. I don't know Vixen's stats, but I would hope she has MegaManip 4 or 5 in order to even have a chance getting a nova to hand over their lives with one quick sentence.

My opinion is, if you want to make a point about your character, how tough they are, how persuasive, how viscious, how handsome, whatever, it is more effective to make up an NPC of your own creation, have your character whatever you want to do to them and make your point that way.

Canon characters live beyond this forum. You have your view how Geryon should be, I have mine, Chance has his, Ashnod has hers, and MissFortune has hers. Yours isn't right. Neither is mine. So when we deal with the canon characters out there we have to be careful. You create your own NPC and you get to manage his or her image, no one is going to be walking into your story with preconceived notions. You use a canon character though and you immediately have to deal with a reader who is saying 'nuh-uh! Pax would never do that'. It hurts your story.

What you were trying to communicate, from what you told me, I liked and I like your storytelling style. I just think it got hampered by something you had no intention of putting out there.

My .02, nothing more.

[Sandy Davis]

Note that when i use canon charatcer I use them either in how my chartacers feel about them or in brief way.I used Tanz to have cmak down Sandy in her past.. SHe has said that Mal scares,and that Pax does as well.

She dosen't say go off and Kill Tanz, even if she may plot it..a lot of poeple plot killing him..Hell that is one things about being on top.I think about the only elite who is not some how not kiling him is Epoch,and like a few others.But most don't try as he is the man.

And unless I wrote a novel about it if I post how Sandy killed Tanz I would problely get the same thing as you did.Maybe even if it was a novel.I am not saying I amm mad at you, more like I am some what upset at how did something...not what you did.How you did it.

[Ashnod]

Geryon, being a highly wanted individual, would probably not have used the name "James Booth" in any fashion whatsover. If not for that reason, then because he only uses his Nova name in reference to himself. In the Terat book, Bounty sends a letter to him using their baseline names, (Ergo, Dear James, Warmest Regards, Bene) and he replies only using Nova handles (ergo, Listen Bounty, Geryon).

Just my .02 on characterization for the future.

My other piece of advice is to remember that the "fiction" section is not part of the IC OpNet world. It can be used to narrate events that do pertain to the OpNet world, but it doesn't exist as part of it for the characters to actually "peruse" like the IC forums are.

[Vixen]

Good questions. Here's a few answers:

Sandy, Gerald: Having a character that I created be the spectre looming over Roxanne in this story would have freed me up to do what I wanted with the NPC, but it would also - I believed, anyway - lessened the impact of having said character. It would feel more like I was creating my own little mini-universe within the game world, in which characters I create only interact with each other. And again, it wasn't about showing off what Vixen could do, so much as having her come face to face with a controversial figure in Aberrant lore.

By having a character that everyone talks about show up in this story, it - again, I believe, not necessarily know for sure - strengthens the character's ties into the fuller scope of the Aberrant universe. I notice that nova characters on this board sort-of exist on a sub-strata apart from the normal Aberrant canon characters, not really a part of The Big Thing Going On. I wanted to go a different route with this story.

That being said, I really did try to do my homework, studying how Geryon's portrayed in the books, and I came away with a cross between Hannibal Lecter and the Hulk - a guy who's really arrogant, really strong, and utterly at ease doing the most despicable of acts. For what I got right, you can credit to the reading material I went through (Teragen, the main book, the Player's Guide) and for what I got wrong, you can blame me.

Ashnod: I was originally going to call him John Smith, but I decided on him using his real name for two reasons: first, it ties back to an offhand comment Vixen made a few weeks back about how some guy named James Booth had called her folks, and secondly, serves as a bonus hook for the reader - the reader knows who James Booth is and suddenly they're waiting to see what'll happen when Vixen finds out too. (That's the theory anyways.)

As for referring to the fiction section, I couldn't figure out a way to say "please read my story" in a more elegant way than that. Sorry.

On the Subject of Vixen's Mega-Manipulation: She could have just rolled lucky.

[Sakurako Hino]

Vixen:

Welcome to rookie mistake land. Of course, the dramatization plug you put in one of the other boards does provide a way out.

Can you say, Geryon Poseur? Your attacker may have been only acting as Geryon. Hence, the reason why it was so easy to use some manipulation on him. Of course, you just think it was Geryon trying to turn your body into chunky salsa.

Recomendation:

Make a follow up fiction using this plot path.

Second: Remember never to use canon characters.

Third: Everything here is in real time. The damage is done, so move on with it.

The only way to fix this is with some severe butt coverage. Of course, that's my opinion, I could be wrong.

[ronin]

Quote:

You have your view how Geryon should be, I have mine, Chance has his, Ashnod has hers, and MissFortune has hers. Yours isn't right. Neither is mine.

That's right. Because as everyone knows, mine is the only true and proper view of anything in the world of Aberrant.

Whaaaat? I played it first, it's mine!!

.ronin

[Kirby1024]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sakurako 'Endeavor' Hino:
Second: Remember never to use canon characters.

Third: Everything here is in real time. The damage is done, so move on with it.

The only way to fix this is with some severe butt coverage. Of course, that's my opinion, I could be wrong.

Second: Not quite. I've placed up a section in the FAQ about this, but I'll repeat it here. Effectively, using Canon characters is OK, as long as you're sure you can do them justice.

For a good example of someone using Canon characters well, Try "Acts of Compassion", down near the bottom of the Fiction board. An excellent example of someone who's used the characters in more than a plot-device fashion, but has managed to create a fantastic piece of fiction...

Third: Again, Not quite. What will generally happen, is that the players will respectfully wait for you to fix this up, and not sic your character too badly. Once you've found a way to reconcile the error, people will refer to it every once in a while, but generally forget it, and refer to more current events.

The Opnet Board is weird like that. We tend to be rougher on the old guard than the newbies...

[Vixen]

Okay then: a question for Kirby. Do you feel that this requires reconciliation? Do you feel that I have done the characters justice and that Geryon serves a purpose in RiS?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Vixen: I enjoyed it.

I even like the comparison with the Hulk.

Everyone else: As for the Voice working, perhaps a botched roll on his part covers everything?

[Jager]

I enjoyed it as well.

So, Geryon got bitch-slapped by a newbie. Maybe he got too cocky? Who knows? She didn't kill him and now she has a major enemy. It should take alot of work for her to deal with this.

As some other here have told me; Don't do over, dig yourself out.

[Sakurako Hino]

I... Did not know that. I guess I still have much to learn... Waaay too much to learn. I have a ton of posts under my belt and I'm still learning. Well, that is a good thing. You stop learning when you die. That's at least what I've heard. Thnx, Kirbster.

[Kirby1024]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vixen:
Okay then: a question for Kirby. Do you feel that this requires reconciliation? Do you feel that I have done the characters justice and that Geryon serves a purpose in RiS?

Look, as Fiction Moderator, I don't really feel it's my place to say anything about this. I get the odd feeling my opinion would be given undue weight in this discussion, which I don't really want. Because that's all it would be - an opinion.

I'm talking mostly in generalities, rather than specific cases. I prefer to have a mostly hands-off approach to moderating these things, and prefer that stuff like this is handled without mod intervention.

Now, with that out of the way, and understanding that this is opinion, not mandate, I personally feel that Geryon seemed just a little underpowered here. People above have pointed out other valid points about your portrayal of Geryon as well, but Geryon's supposed to be quite fast, as well as strong and tough.

But, smaller Davids have triumphed over larger Goliaths. I myself am mostly fine with the portrayal, but I agree with Jager. This does add a whole new dimension to the character, and I wouldn't "gloss over" it.

My opinion, no more.

[Fortune's Son]

Vixen;

You might want to take a look at the following previous OOC discussions.

1. Newbie Questions

2. Okay, deep breath everyone...

3. Settle \'round, kiddies, time for a History lesson...

Canon characters are part of our common ground in the OpNet in much the same way that the Earth of AB is close enough to our own that it doesn't seem like an alien world so we have frames of reference as players. Change the perceptions of the characters and you lose some of the common ground.

If it helps; my personal approach is to know in advance why I'm using a canon character. Then mentally subtract the canon character from the proposed story to see if there is still a story to tell. If the answer is no then the story must be about that canon character and I have to rethink what I'm doing.

Are there reasons to use canon characters? Some would disagree but I think yes, though it's a delicate matter. I also think the writer's literary goals need to be kept in mind at all times as its easy to slip from telling an interesting story into ego masturbation without realizing. Also in line with that I personally think the best stories are the ones that deepen our understanding of the AB world and the characters place in it but not necessarily the characters themselves.

Just my thoughts.

[Sakurako Hino]

Strangely enough, the examples given are the "corrections" that I suffered. Trust me, Vixen, I did much nastier things, and I was treated firmly, yet fairly.

Not to mention I lived to learn...

[Hugin]

As someone also guilty of having used canon characters in a fiction piece (The Death of Vile Bill) I would also like to chime in on the use of canon characters. I used the character of Epoch because A) The way the story was put together didn't allow for the time and energy of introducing a NPC. I wanted to give Bill a death of some note, so having him killed by one of the biggies fit.

I felt okay doing so, not because I was emphasizing my character, but because I was trying to re-establish canon characters as being movers and shakers in the Aberrant world for a reason.

I only wish I had been able to use someone else. I despise the character of Epoch as the poorly designed trash that he is.

Vixen, I agree with some of what has been said here. Use what has happened, let it add to your character and move one. A lot can be said for the fact that the piece could simply be viewed as Vixen's viewpoint. Maybe Geryon wasn't in as bad as shape as he appeared, maybe he wasn't as crude as he came across (I disliked the representation of him as a rapist. I don't see it as necessary and the use of that particular convention bothers me on a few levels.)

[Sakurako Hino]

That's why I say the best way to fix this without the finger of god, is to say that the "Geryon" she faced was nothing but a wannabe. Well, that's wat I think would be the best way to fix this with no muss and no fuss. I also just discovered there was a canon character in "Day of the Dead". But she popped up near the end, and only for about roughly 5 seconds of story time. Not to mention it was to save Teknokat and Endeavor's arses.

[Vixen]

Many questions, and many replies.

To Everyone: Don't worry, I don't intend on this thing between Vixen and Geryon to be over without any reprecussions. Vixen puts on an angry face but she's more scared of Geryon than anything - she knows she won by the skin of her teeth and she knows that if there's a next time, Geryon's going to pulp her. So she tries to press her perceived advantage of bragging rights to get him off her back. Meanwhile, Geryon's not happy that a supposed rookie managed to, haha, 'outfox' him and it's going to squirm under his skin like a chigger. He'll be a lot more careful in future confrontations. Assuming, of course, that the next time Vixen and Geryon meet, they'll have the luxury of having a rematch without other circumstances forcing them to work together...

Regarding Interpretations of Geryon: Geryon might have been stretching the truth a bit when he said he was going to 'have a little fun' with Vixen, and simply have guessed - rather accurately - that it would provoke Vixen in the worst way. However, he's certainly capable of crippling a nova, as Harmony can attest to, and he's a second stage "Monster" so other modes of extreme behavior can be justified. He's obviously got a bizarre, inscrutible form of ethics...

So let's narrow it down a little. What did I get RIGHT about Geryon? Considering the comments I'm getting, this should be a lot shorter list than what I got wrong.

Vixen Winning: Sometime, the underdog - or underfox, in this case - manages to stage an upset. No, the underdog doesn't consistently win in real life, but Vixen hasn't consistently won against Geryon, either. And letting him get away after being sucker-punched in her baseline form isn't exactly a "win" in my book. "Winning" would have been handing him over to the cops - and you're right, that would be a gross overstep.

And:

Endeavor: I'd rather not have this version of Geryon turn out to be a wannabe. It feels too much like retconning to me and it negates the whole purpose of the story - that Vixen's not divorced from the larger wheels turning in the Aberrant mythos. I wanted to underscore a central Aberrant truth, that when you're a nova, EVERYONE is going to want you on their side and some of them will do ANYTHING to get you on their side.

Project Utopia wants Vixen to save the world. DeVries wants her to make money. The Teragen want her to help them forge a new age. But what does Vixen want? And does that matter to any of them?

[Fortune's Son]

Sorry I couldn't help you. Best of luck.

[Vixen]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Chance:
Sorry I couldn't help you. Best of luck.

Wheh?

[Sakurako Hino]

So, Geryon has been suprised by you. He probably learned a lesson there, never underestimate your opponent. Most likely, he's having a laugh over it. Hopefully, you won't set up any more tangles with him. More feathers may be ruffled. Not to mention eventually you may have to have a story where Geryon beats the living snot out of you. I don't think Geryon holds grudges very long. He probably thinks of Vixen as a bush-league kitsune and there are bigger problems other than teaching that lucky dog who's yard this is. There's other adventures you can have, and perhaps other NV members may ask you what you were doing.

[Vixen]

Trust this: Vixen is not gonna seek out Geryon unless she thinks it's going to fix something. She's not an elite whose popularity rises when she has it out with a rival nova - she just wants Geryon to Go The Hell Away. So if Geryon never presses the issue again, she won't press back.

Of course, someone out to get Geryon might - as you suggested - pose as Geryon and threaten Vixen again, causing Vixen to go on the hunt. Or circumstances could conspire to force Geryon and Vixen to work together for a brief period.

Lots of directions. Only time will tell which one is chosen.

[Vixen]

What I'm contemplating at present is the idea of maybe revising the story with a second draft, that goes into more detail and redresses some concerns, while still having the same basic outcome.

The current concerns are that Geryon comes off as too creepy and that Vixen doesn't have to sweat enough to beat him. So the second draft has more Geryon being non-psycho, and a longer fight sequence that illustrates a broader range of their abilities.

Thoughts?

[Jager]

If Geryon gets the initiative, you should be toast. Geryon fits TEAMS of novas and gets atleast a draw.

Does the invite have to come from Geryon?

Have you considered a slightly less prominant Terat?

[Sandy Davis]

maybe naroccis?(or what ever) aftr all she dosen't seem to be the combat monster.THere are a few others, some of withc are not nearly as powrful as the G man..as I said there maybe three or four teragen who have about as much power as he does in combat..simplely put most teragen with more power than his tend not be worried about fighting..as I recall Mal, only gets in one fight before like 2040...

[Centipede]

I find it more probable that Vixen could beat Geryon as written in the story, than having Narcosis show up and be defeated.

I find narcosis even less likely to seek out a newly erupted nova, and far less likely to fall for the Voice.

Just my two pence of disruption...

[Sandy Davis]

True but in combat she seems to be the writen one that moves about the world and easily beatable in combate, the crazy opnet guy, and a few others but they tend to stay in one place...

[Ashnod]

Mega-socials go a LONG way to avoiding a fight. Narcosis may not be combat-skilled, but she'd be very adept at manuevering her way out of it or preventing it from happening.

Think of her as the mirror to Utopia's Geisha.

[Jager]

Again, all of this is just my opinion.

Yep.

Which factions would be interested in recruiting Vixen?

Harvesters (Zia's faction)- she is a research scientist and very tainted.

Primacy - the right mix of taint and combative ability. Also, they would most likely take up the human-hostage angle.

Cult of Mal (?)- Going after the Kistune-Goddess angle and maybe the start of a powerplay between Delormier and Scripture.

MHO: Far less likely are ...

Nova Vigilance - doesn't work too well. Vixen hasn't done anything to draw their ire. They also tend to only recruit hard-core terats.

Casablancas - Could you see the kittens the Count would have at this overt hostile display against a relatively nuetral nova?

Harvesters (Leviathan faction) - would kill her family and then talk to her. Again, they want tainted novas who are willing to fight and kill for the cause.

The Pandemonium is not impossible, as they are seen as being very chaotic and very big. Some group in P could be trying to stir things up to unseat Narcosis. Personally, I designed Bastian to be Narcosis' enforcers. The Wrath of Heaven would be a secret little cell she had recently created to deal with just such a problem.

Take this for whatever its worth.

[Vixen]

A second draft of RiS has been posted in the story section. It's the same story, but far more fleshed out.

Comments would be appreciated.

[Hugin]

I've read your second draft. I liked it very much. I enjoyed the changes (the addition of Dante and Randall was a hoot) and felt you communicated the struggle very effectively.

[Vixen]

Quote:

Originally posted by James 'Prodigy' Meehan:
I've read your second draft. I liked it very much. I enjoyed the changes (the addition of Dante and Randall was a hoot) and felt you communicated the struggle very effectively.

Thanks, Prodigy! I always liked the Kevin Smith films, and I'm a big of a fan of the late, lamented Clerks cartoon. I figured this would be my little homage...