Aberrant RPG - Comments on "Node, Quantum, and Aberrancy "

[Fortune's Son]

In regards to the "Node, Quantum, and Aberrancy " piece posted in the vignette section of the forums.

This was a nice little piece for a couple of reasons. The first was that I'd been having trouble wrapping my head around the idea of how you could post something useful to the vignette section and still be able to adhere to the one page/one post limits. This announcement was a great demonstration of what to post and still adhere to the guidelines Kirby provided. The other reason is that it got me thinking about the nature of Taint, temporary and permanent, within the game and how it affects players. Aside from making them 12 feet tall lizards composed of solid radioactive mercury...

From a table top perspective this seems an interesting idea and plot device for players to research/use as a means of dealing with temporary taint. A nice addition if it fits within the chronicle as envisioned by the troupe. And it does seem to have several valid points for addressing the idea of mental aberrations both temporary and permanent.

When addressing the idea of permanent Taint that does not cause mental aberrations the explanation and analogy seem a little weak. I understand this piece was intended as a very simple explanation to a diverse audience but I'd be interested in hearing how the issues and ideas associated with permanent Taint are addressed within your troupe.

For instance; from the information provided within the vignette it seems an implicit assumption that there are no instances of permanent taint and/or associated aberrations being acquired at eruption. It also steps around the transition from temporary to permanent Taint and how Taint can cause the human body to respond by growing wing or scales while leaving the DNA structure unchanged, ect. It doesn't seem to address differences between 9 dots of temporary tain vs. 1 dot of permanent taint vs higher levels of permanent taint. It does seem to address the idea that there are means and methods to treat temporary taint.

Or am I misunderstanding?

Still, it was a thought provoking piece and got me to thinking about some of the aspects of Taint.

Thanks.

[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: Jack Chance ]

[Guest]

Sorry about the Delay in response time; I was unable to see some posts on my end. Probably due to my settings or something. (I have been having some really wierd system problems) Anyhow...

I am posting a follow-up to the post you mentioned above as soon as I finish typing this. Largely that post was all in game information and left vague for a purpose.

As far as how I deal with this in my Troupe, well that is largely a case-by-case process. But I found a blurb somewhere out in the ether regarding High Node ratings (Above 5) and I ran with it, altered it, and fleshed out the details to the degree that you see some of here. You are right about the Physical affects of Taint. In my epic, there is no known way for the players to get rid of the medium and high level aberrations. High Level Mental and Quantum Aberrations are treatable with the process of working out the Node, or otherwise strengthening it.

And regarding how it deals with Temporary and Permanent Taint... Well merely having Balanced Signature ( Node at least EQUAL to Quantum) makes it a little harder to get "Quatum burnout" or Taint. Once it is recieved however, it has to be dealt with in the normal ways. (Chrysalis, Divergance, exempplarism, whatever...)

[Jordan]

Maybe I'm missing something here, or maybe you've changed the rules in your game, but do you not gain Taint when your Node gets bigger?

The message that I got from your fiction is that by allowing the node to grow while increasing your quantum, you can avoid the effects of taint. I don't understand how you can do that when you gain taint for having a node rating higher than two. Can someone explain please?

[Fortune's Son]

Question for Lonn (with possible relevance to Jordan's question):

Okay, I follow your explanation to a point. It seems as if you've combined the Taint Resistance enhancement with the Node background as an automatic advantage while simulatanously removing the restriction that it apply only to mental aberrations. Or is your troupe using a completely different definition of the Node background and we're actually talking about different things that have the same name?

Hmm. I guess I'm really am asking the same question as Jordan; how does increasing the potential to channel quantum (Node)allow you to avoid Taint when Taint is the result of channeling increasing levels of quantum even in potential, hence the automatic Taint developed as the Node rating increases?

I'm not criticizing your TT as your troupe does whatever it does but I'm still not getting it. Like I said, the theory itself seems like a decent approach to defining and dealing with temporary taint. With permanent taint and non-mental aberrations it seems a little shakier and I'm just not getting the Node explanations at all.

[ 10-25-2002: Message edited by: Jack Chance ]

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

So if someone increases their node with experience, does that decrease taint?

[Jordan]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
So if someone increases their node with experience, does that decrease taint?

Not according to the rules in the book, and that's why I'm confused by what Lonn's trying to say. According to the book, a Node score higher than 2 gives you Taint, it doesn't decrease it.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

I meant in his game. I get the feeling he is using a varient on the taint rules.

[Sandy Davis]

Well, having a large node both incresses your taint and decresses it.The large your node it, the more qoantum you can safe spend ech turn,and the less likely you were have to burn for power,as I recall you get some benagit for how much qoantum you have left when you botch/max out a power, or in some wya may get taint.This may have been a house rule but the more qoantum,and the higher node the less likely you would gain taint from botched powers. But those may just be house rules.

[Guest]

Quote:

Jordan Rossi:
Maybe I'm missing something here, or maybe you've changed the rules in your game, but do you not gain Taint when your Node gets bigger?

Well, following the precepts set in the "Node, Quantum, and Aberrancy discussion, as you Node gets in better shape by working it out, so-to-speak, it both channels Quantum better and resists taint a wee bit better. Having a strong Node in no way makes one immune to taint. So answering your question, there exists a Bell curve in relation to Node development and gaining Taint. It is similar to running. Before one starts running, and I’m referring to one who has never ran before for regular exercise, it is prudent to do some form of warm up routine. This warms up the muscles as they fill with oxygenated blood and gets them ready to flex. Anyhow, once you have run a few times, more often after the first time, your muscles are sore from merely going for 5 minutes or so on level surfaces. After awhile, the same amount of time no longer winds you and you are not sore. You move on to something that will wind you and so on.

The Node is almost exactly like this. As it begins to develop (get past 2 dots) your body gets sore (one point of Perm Taint) and it continues like this until the Node adjusts and more efficiently channels Quantum (at Node 6). At this point the Node is acting much more efficiently and the amount of Taint gained from the developing Node starts to wane (3 taint at Node 5, 4 at Node 6, then 3 at node 7, 2 Taint at Node 8, 1 Taint at Node 9, and finally 0 taint at Node 10) This “Node Taint” is the only Permanent Taint that can be lost as well as the resulting Aberrations.

Now your asking how does this work? I mean really, how can you lose hard-core physical manifestations of Taint? Well Quantum makes it happen in the first place; then Quantum makes it happen again as it attunes itself perfectly to your signature and undoes all of its poisoning from development stages. Now you have the strong developed legs and cardiovascular system from running and you no longer get cramps and back problems either.

I know the example listed in the Core book states that as the Node enlarges it keeps adding increasing pressure to the rest of the brain, sometimes even causing the Nova’s Head to bulge out. In defense I say that the muscle does not need to be big to be fit and strong. At some point in its development, the Node STOPS growing and just become a more efficient channel. Thus the difference in runner’s legs and deadlifters legs. A node needs only be fast and fit, not massive. That’s my “non-canon” add-on. It has worked wonders and only 1 player has decided to follow the hard path of increasing their Node.

Quote:

Jack Chance:
How does increasing the potential to channel quantum (Node) allow you to avoid Taint when Taint is the result of channeling increasing levels of quantum even in potential, hence the automatic Taint developed as the Node rating increases?

I feel part of this question was answered above. But having a high Node does not make it impossible to get taint. One still, gets Taint from maxing and trying too hard. Just like the runner from above if he pushed himself too hard. Everyone has limits, and when they push it, they usually are sore afterwards. What raising the Node does for you is allow you to channel a higher amount of Quantum than lower levels. Then, in my epic, I allow one die to be rolled for every point of Node above your quantum rating. Normal difficulty, but for each temporary point gained in maxing or whatever, the difficulty is raised by one. Thus Blasto maxing his Q-bolt and gaining 2 temp Taint, would need 3 successes to get 0 taint; assuming of course that his Node was high enough.

Quote:

Jack Chance:
I'm not criticizing your TT as your troupe does whatever it does but I'm still not getting it. Like I said, the theory itself seems like a decent approach to defining and dealing with temporary taint. With permanent taint and non-mental aberrations it seems a little shakier and I'm just not getting the Node explanations at all.

With the above explanations, are you getting it now my friend?

Quote:

David 'Dr. Troll' Smith :
So if someone increases his or her node with experience, does that decrease taint?

After they hit Node 6, the taint gained begins to bleed off with the rest of the channeled Quantum.

Much like the Cola can illustration. How hard is it to get that last few drops of Liquid out? Well those drops are the taint. As Node develops past 6 its like you are flushing clear water through the can and after a bit, there is no more cola taste left.

It’s the raising it from 3-6 that hurts. That’s 4 Permanent Taint to deal with and make you Nova Life more interesting. It gets expensive as well. I make it cost 5x current rating past Node5.

Quote:

Jordan Rossi:
Not according to the rules in the book, and that's why I'm confused by what Lonn's trying to say. According to the book, a Node score higher than 2 gives you Taint, it doesn't decrease it.

See topmost clarification.

Quote:

Sandy Davis- Miss-Fortune :
Well, having a large node both increases your taint and decreases it. The large your node it, the more quantum you can safe spend each turn, and the less likely you were have to burn for power, as I recall you get some benefit for how much quantum you have left when you botch/max out a power, or in some way may get taint. This may have been a house rule but the more quantum, and the higher node the less likely you would gain taint from botched powers. But those may just be house rules.

I thank you Miss Fortune. I was hoping someone else out there has come across the same seed as I.

[Kirby1024]

Quote:

Originally posted by Lonn Medical & Securities:
Now your asking how does this work? I mean really, how can you lose hard-core physical manifestations of Taint? Well Quantum makes it happen in the first place; then Quantum makes it happen again as it attunes itself perfectly to your signature and undoes all of its poisoning from development stages. Now you have the strong developed legs and cardiovascular system from running and you no longer get cramps and back problems either.

'Ang on. By my definition of Taint (which is probably a little off compared to yours), Taint is merely the Gameplay mechanic of the Inplay phenomenon of a nova's slow dissociation from his original humanity. In effect, it sort of gauges how far the character's Quantum manifestation of this dissociation has progressed (whether this is the same as the Mental manifestation is variable, however).

If that's the case, wouldn't the alteration of a body to better facilitate Quantum channelling increase Taint? It's another way that Quantum is altering the body's capabilities beyond it's original human baseline. Admittedly, this isn't particularly "bad" as Taint is wont to be, but I'd specify that such a view would simply mean that the Taint accrued simply doesn't gain a new Abberation. You're not removing Taint here at all - At the very least, it's merely converting from "bad" change to "good" change.

At least, that's my Interpretation. YAMV, but this kind of shift just makes little sense in my worldview. To me, Taint is inescapable for a Nova. Power Corrupts, or at least Changes, anyone. Novas just get the fun of having that fact manifest physically/psychically.

[Vile Bill]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirby1024:


At least, that's my Interpretation.

Mine also. As far as I am concerned, trying to overcome taint and remove aberrations is simply an attempt to turn Aberrant into just your basic superhero game.

[Fortune's Son]

Come on folks, let's put the pitchforks back down for a minute. Lonn isn't looking for converts, rather he's answering some direct questions I posed concerning a piece of non-canon fiction he wrote. This is about the house rules in that fiction and nothing more. House rules are valid in the TT they originate in and not in other people's games which means here as well.

I asked the intial questions because I want to understand what he's done. On the surface, yes, it appears to be a rewrite of many of the basic assumptions of the game. But is it really? That's what I'm trying to figure out. Exactly what's changed and why. Based on the info so far it appears as a radical philisophy with a lot of promise but is it promise that numerically can't pay off the effort required. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Lonn,

Okay, let me make sure I understand this.

Nothing can be done for the mid to high range aberrations as they've "gone too far". Low level Taint (which is four and less as I recall though I may be off) may be reduced through this interpretation. You get no benefit from this interpretation of Taint and Node until you ascend from from Node 5 to Node 6. That initial increase in Node costs 25 EPs to "neutralize" 1 point of taint. To neutralize the second point of Taint would require an increase to Node 7 and cost 30 EPs

I see the position that you're changing a basic assumption of the game but it's not as sweeping an assumption as it seemed when I was initially reading the Divergence thread after my return. And of course it's your own table top so house rules are up to you and your troupe.

So, in your table top the "manageable price" is that all the EP's from approximately 10 games have to be used to purchase a Node of 6 just to handle one point of Taint? That would seem an odd way to approach the idea of manageable price and dealing with permanent Taint considering that the purchase of Node is already to the player's advantage.

- Are they getting all the usual benefits of Node such as increase quantum recovery and expenditure?

- Are they also acquiring Taint from Node ratings as they go over two?

Problems:

1. Isn't this a two for one deal? The nova isn't really paying a price because even with the Taint affects being factored in he's already gettting a net gain from the Node he's purchasing. From that perspective this seems an esoteric means of setting a low Taint default as discussed in the APG. Is that how you envisioned it and has it worked to fulfill that vision?

2. You've described a static example (Node 6 / Taint 1) but the way you describe the process is that of a dynamic process. I.e., have Node 6 long enough and you get to flush the Taint regardless. It just takes longer with only Node 6 as opposed to Node 7. What's the mechanics behind this?

[Vile Bill]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Chance:
Come on folks, let's put the pitchforks back down for a minute.

Hey, I've pulled out no pitchforks. I don't see anything wrong with 'basic superhero games'. I just think that Aberrant is a different game than Marvel Superheroes, that is all. Different intentions, different flavors, different games.

I don't think Aberrant is better or worse than other superhero games either. If he is explaining how things work in his game, cool. If he is trying to convince me (which I don't think he is) that Aberrant should[/b} work this way, it ain't gonna happen.

He's stating his opinions. I'm stating mine. It's all good.

[Kirby1024]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Chance:
Come on folks, let's put the pitchforks back down for a minute. Lonn isn't looking for converts, rather he's answering some direct questions I posed concerning a piece of non-canon fiction he wrote. This is about the house rules in that fiction and nothing more. House rules are valid in the TT they originate in and not in other people's games which means here as well.

Fully aware of that. Just stating my reaction to the concept. I like the idea, meself, but I'd never use it, because it doesn't fit my view of the Aberrant World. What I do like is the idea of this being tossed out into that world. I may know how Taint works, but the characters definitely shouldn't. There should be theories up the wazoo about this stuff...

[still holding pitchfork] Oh, this? [tosses pitchfork]

[Fortune's Son]

Sorry, guys. No insult intended. I just didn't want Lonn to get smacked for answering questions I was posing for him. It's all good. Yeah, this process seems to de-emphasize the "manageable price" concept that a lot of people play for but I'm still waiting from some of the answers on that.

Lonn,

It just occured to me that you could cut down on a lot of my questions just by giving me a dynamic example of the house rules you've put into effect regarding Node, Taint and Quantum.

[Guest]

See below.. I edited this after I posted below...

[Guest]

OK friends. It seems to me that this topic got off to the wrong road in short order. Some things were stated in haste on my part, and some things are contradicting the original fiction. (I get defensive if I don’t think about the fact that this is a game and I am NOT Asche Lonn) Forgive me friends, this will straighten things out I hope. Also, I have quite a bit of real life things going on (as others do I’m sure) that are Distracing me from the game world herein. I do look forward to this forum in many ways, but mostly I look forward to a game session.

I look at this post as a first step to your enlightenment and my developing a tolerance to Heat.

1. Divergence and Node Balance are 2 separate and different things altogether.

Although the two idea’s did strum from the same TT game, they are differing in many ways. Even as the ST of the game in play, I don’t claim to know all of the differences between the two. Really, Node Balance is not meant to be a philosophy or replace one. Terats as well as Divergents the same can develop their Node equally.

2. This whole concept is my way of going off canon a bit.

In MY epic, Taint is a tool for allowing the Nova’s to “ascend” to a higher plane of thought and existence. Taint does NOT have be measured to state the difference between Nova’s and Baselines. I never liked the idea of Uber powerful beings being victims of a cancer and going mad and/or dying due to Node enlargement and Quantum poisoning. I follow the thought that Nova’s are humans on a different evolutionary path, a path that perhaps would not of happened for another few thousand years if not for the happening that led up to the Aberrant Timeline. Thus I do not think that Taint is a Necessary thing in this evolution.

Eventually, there will be no Taint as the offspring of Nova’s are born and their bodies are more capable of channeling Quantum without poisoning. I stand that this stage of development will be reached in 3rd- 4th generation Nova’s. The Taint is only a result of the original “artificial eruptions” that fathered 99% of the Nova’s in existence currently. That is a whole topic in itself which I will gladly discuss if interested.

3. Node increase does merit the gaining of Taint.

Node balancing merely lends away to dealing with the aberrations. It does not help you lose Taint.

As an example say you start with Node 4 and 2 permanent Taint. It doesn’t matter how much more permanent Taint you gain. The only Taint that bleeds off is the original 2 you received from your Node growth. So, when you raised it to Node 5 (+1 more Taint) and then to 6 (-1 Taint), you are at 2 Permanent Taint (3 permanent from Node GROWTH minus 1 for Node Stabilizing and efficiency. You have still the taint you may have gained through play or whatever. Raising Node only deals with the Taint gained from Node growth.

Node increase still affords you all the benefits of more Quantum spent per turn, recovery, etc.

4. This vision of Taint was forged through my goal to input another advantage into my epic.

This has resulted in pretty balanced view of Taint in my epic nad has not led to it becoming no existant, even with Divergance. SIde point:: Divergence is NOT rampant in the world that it exists in. It has maybe a third of the adherants that Teras has, although not confirmed as Teras is rather quiet about it. Anyhow...

The costs reflected in the Node increase (5x current rating) is figured into my developing of yet another muchkinism. I had mentioned in a post some months ago about something called Attribute Mastery. I wont go into details here right now save to say that a Balanced Node is required for it and it is something that only a handful (3-6 Nova’s including one player) worldwide are aware of. They discovered it quite by accident.

Needless to say, there is a few other benefits for dropping so many points into developing Node that accent the ability of the Node to detect other Nodes (as listed in the Core book) and Quantum recovery.

I cannot figure out how to post a chart here so if any are interested in it, I can send you an extended Node chart with its listed benefits. Just PM me with your email.

and finally, I do hope this has levelled our playing field and all are on the same page. I tried to be as concise and coherent as possible despite my distractions. I love to post here so keep 'em coming.

[Fortune's Son]

Quote:

Originally posted by Lonn Medical & Securities:
I cannot figure out how to post a chart here...

Send me the chart and I'll post it for you. Also, please forgive the lack of comment on your post but I need a bit of time digest it.