Aberrant RPG - App. of Str=5; Was "How did you come up with your current "nova handle"? "

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashnod:
...I know Mega-Strength doesn't necessarily impart increased musculature, but the woman in that picture does not look like a woman with Strength 5, which would. A woman with a Strength trait of 5 would look like Chyna from the WWE or Zap from American Gladiators in terms of their arms and general form.

I always hated that She-Ra was supposed to be as strong as He-Man but she had absolutely no muscles to speak of....

I thought I'd respond to that but felt it was enough off topic to warrent a different post.

I agree that Zap & Chyna have a Str 5, but forms like that are very rare. Let's assume one person in 1000.

If you assume that Str 5 represents the top 1%, then 9 out of 10 people with a 5 don't have that form. Granted, those 9 won't be as strong as Zap, but they could still have a 5 none the less.

[Ashnod]

I disagree.

At the peak of my athletic career, I had worked my body to the point where I would have had MAYBE a strength of three. MAYBE. At any rate, I didn't have slender arms or legs back then, nothing at all like the woman in Rosalyn's picture.

To be able to life and press the figures they provide for strength 5 in the stats, your body is going to have larger muscles than the average person. That's just the way biology works, especially for females. Our bodies don't have the natural power to throw that kind of weight around if we're shaped like that.

You have to work at it, and you're body is going to change as a result. Now, understandably, Mega-Stength is quantum powered and this doesn't apply to that. But standard strength is, and it will.

[ 09-09-2002: Message edited by: Ashnod ]

[Roslyn 'Pump' Kluesner]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashnod:
I disagree.

At the peak of my athletic career, I had worked my body to the point where I would have had MAYBE a strength of three. MAYBE. At any rate, I didn't have slender arms or legs back then, nothing at all like the woman in Rosalyn's picture.

To be able to life and press the figures they provide for strength 5 in the stats, your body is going to have larger muscles than the average person. That's just the way biology works, especially for females. Our bodies don't have the natural power to throw that kind of weight around if we're shaped like that.

You have to work at it, and you're body is going to change as a result. Now, understandably, Mega-Stength is quantum powered and this doesn't apply to that. But standard strength is, and it will.

[ 09-09-2002: Message edited by: Ashnod ]

You are talking biology, not quantum though.

There are quite a few guys with high Str and some mega-str who don’t look it either. It is the Quantum. To be able to lifts 10 tone you would have to weigh like 2-5 tones yourself. The Quantum makes it happen. WW catch all for this type of stuff. And I think you keep forgetting about things like Mega-Appearance

So, since canon was apparently such a big thing lately, I pull out my “it is canon” shield. Those canon characters I listed before all have descriptions of them and are not all muscle-bound with their high strengths.

Though, that is what the Golden Rule is for. If you do not like or agree with something, then change it in your game.

No harm done.

[Walker]

Another thing to remember is that lifting ability is a function of your Might skill total. Says so on page 234 of my copy

Knowing how to lift weight is just important as brute strength if you don't wanna get injured. Mind you, the idea of STR 1 Might 5 being able to lift more than STR 5 Might 0 does seem a bit ridiculous but rule systems have to compromise some where, after all a charcter with STR 1 is unlikely to have Might 5.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashnod:
To be able to life and press the figures they provide for strength 5 in the stats, your body is going to have larger muscles than the average person. That's just the way biology works, especially for females. Our bodies don't have the natural power to throw that kind of weight around if we're shaped like that.

I looked it up, and Str 5's desciption lets you lift 250kg. That is 550 lbs. (WOW). I'm just guessing, but that is probably much rarer than the 1/1000 I was thinking... Speaking of which, I think the book says dead lift. What is the actual, technical definition of "dead lift"?

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
I looked it up, and Str 5's desciption lets you lift 250kg. That is 550 lbs. (WOW). I'm just guessing, but that is probably much rarer than the 1/1000 I was thinking... Speaking of which, I think the book says dead lift. What is the actual, technical definition of "dead lift"?

Dead lift, when I was lifting weights, meant picking up a bar that was resting on the ground and standing completely upright with it.

[Liam VanGilder]

As far as a normal Strength of 5 vs M-Str altering physical appearance there was one thing that occured to me. In the main book there is passage in the IC bit at the front of the book where the explain how a nova's body has additional mitochondria in its cells and these are part of how it can better resist damage.

This explains why novas with no M-Physicals still have a lethal soak that baselines don't and why they heal faster even without M-Sta.

So, even a nova without M-Str still has a different physiological makeup to a basline. This might not exempy them with having musculature commensurate to their physical strength but it could mitigate it a lot. The nova would be brawnier looking than an average baseline, but nowhere near as much as their actual strength would seem to require.

[Sandy Davis]

about mega str.I always thought that is was form of TK, what the nova did not fully understand, or used it liek a reflex.After all novas can live car,and throw them by the bumper.

One myfrist character, who in the end had just about ever mega stat around 2 or more.Was not "strong" at all, her megs str was her relxive use of ehr mastery of gravity. Making thing lighter,and putting more force into her hits,and such. By the way she Looked like Roxy"Freeefall" from gen 13. She is soo cute!

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandy Davis- Miss-Fortune:
about mega str.I always thought that is was form of TK, what the nova did not fully understand, or used it liek a reflex.After all novas can live car,and throw them by the bumper.

One myfrist character, who in the end had just about ever mega stat around 2 or more.Was not "strong" at all, her megs str was her relxive use of ehr mastery of gravity. Making thing lighter,and putting more force into her hits,and such. By the way she Looked like Roxy"Freeefall" from gen 13. She is soo cute!

That explains works fine, except it doesn't define why you must have equal levels of normal strength to have such a high Mega-Strength. There's no reason someone who uses a form of gravity manipulation or tactile TK as a strength modifer should have to purchase normal Strength levels to increase that ability, yet you must. I can understand that this would be acceptable if you house-ruled the Megas, so you didn't have to purchase the regulars, but otherwise it kind of contradicts the established rules.

[Sandy Davis]

Well, in that game it work out taht you had to have a five in the sat before you could get megas in it.I would point out that, the game started with 40 nova points,and went one for just over 400 exp.. started in 2010,and ended in the start of the nova wars, when the part broke up, my Alex sided witht eh tryign to save earth,and human. She even defened thespace ships from other novas. And when she was forced to leave earth,well she was none too pleased.

Now why do you need the basic stats for TK,and suc.Think of it this way, you start small and get bigger, your TK affects your norall stats in away that is just so small that no nova could sence you using it, over the mega times.

It comes down to makign the game fair.With mega str, you could care less what you normal str was, unles syou brawl,and that is about it.True wile other maga are bigger than normal ones, none are neerly as closs as maga str over str. I think the odd and the math work something like you need 12 dice of str to make one of mega. that is to say, you get five level od damage with 12 dice,and five damage levels with mega str.

Myself I wouldn't be that shocked at seeing youing to get 10 points in str before you could get one dot in mega..

[Nimrod]

For Mega-Strength, I´ve always gone with the casual explanation provided by Shadowraven of Rising Stars fame: "It´s not a muscle thing, it´s a force thing." - meaning that the quantum signature of the Nova somehow manages to amplify the "force output". This does not, of course, explain the other physics-defying stunts that Novas can pull off (the "lifting an oil liner" example"), but then I´m no Major in Quantum Physics. Works for me.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

That is confusing Mega-Str with Str. I don't think anyone has a problem with a Str=1, M-Str=1 guy looking like a stick figure.

Now lets say you have Str=5, M-Str=1, and you Dorm. You still have Str=5, you aren't using juice. It is even possible for a stick figure to have a str=5?

[Vex]

Well Bruce Lee was not that big of a man, but was rather strong.He could have had a strength of 5 (or maybe 6).But could joe shome computer techie have a strang of 5..not llikely.domancy couase a lot of problems with stats.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vex:
Well Bruce Lee was not that big of a man, but was rather strong.He could have had a strength of 5 (or maybe 6).But could joe shome computer techie have a strang of 5..not llikely.domancy couase a lot of problems with stats.

I think people are confusing Strength with Might. Might is the training one needs to maximize their Strength. Strength is the raw potential. Small people can achieve amazing feats with the proper skill and discipline. I really doubt Bruce Lee had a Strength of 6 or even 5. I think he'd simply have had a very high Might trait.

[Vex]

But he did have the one inch punch(I forget the name but it was something like that) where he would put his fingers tips on someone's chest, pulled them back into a fist and then hit them.That punch was strong enough to knock poeple acrosse a room.

But size is not everything.

[Ashnod]

But that example, Vex, would be something granted via a Strength+Martial Arts die pool. The 5 dots of Martial Arts, which reflect proper placement of balance, pressure, and force, grant that type of control and power, and isn't reflected in the raw strength. For that matter, you can argue that the die pool is actually Dexterity+Martial Arts.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashnod:
But that example, Vex, would be something granted via a Strength+Martial Arts die pool. The 5 dots of Martial Arts, which reflect proper placement of balance, pressure, and force, grant that type of control and power, and isn't reflected in the raw strength. For that matter, you can argue that the die pool is actually Dexterity+Martial Arts.

Yep, I think yer on the right track here.

Strength produces damage and force, as exhibited in the fact that the damage dice pool is strength based. The limitation for using strength as the 'to hit' pool lay in the limitations of brute strength based fighting styles.

I would argue that wrestling and boxing, while they are relegated to the brawl dice pool in fact, in real life, use a mixture. When a boxer is working the speed bag he isn't focusing on his strength, rather reaction time and accuracy. But, when he is working the heavy bag he is focusing on pure power.

With Bruce Lee, when he is using his inch punch, he is using his strength to do damage, but he is using his dexterity and his martial arts to focus that damage. The dex pool's extra successes help inflate his strength damage pool.

The WW system is kept simple, to keep the game flowing and fun. Trying to make it a pure representation of real life creates complications I don't think it was designed for.

You don't get the automatic successes of MegaStrength because the simple fact of the matter is it would be unbalancing. The presence of those autosuccesses for the damage and might pools was playtested and found to be so significant that it was decided to not allow MegaStrength dice to be used in a dice pool. You might hit less often than somone relying on MegaDexterity, but when you do, whoa boy.

Yes, you can combine the two, but hey, in that case you are paying for it. Less points to spend other places and it still isn't unbeatable. Effective yes, but not unbeatable.

The fact is, every game has its limitations. Each player has to make a decision whether they can live with them and enjoy the game, make the necessary adjustments that their own small group can live with, or chuck it all and go play Everquest.

[Vixen]

Quote:

Originally posted by James 'Prodigy' Meehan:
The fact is, every game has its limitations. Each player has to make a decision whether they can live with them and enjoy the game, make the necessary adjustments that their own small group can live with, or chuck it all and go play Everquest.

The sad thing is, far too many gamers go off and do this last bit.

[Smite]

I think the size of the person, and if they are actually massive or not really depends on several factors.

Str 5 as a baseline would be large, and muscular, more so with a high Might. Look at a professional weightlifter or a few other athletes, they can get massive and more massive.

If you where only Str 3 or less until you erupted, you might not be massive. It might be your muscules became more efficent, your have learned to store kinetic energy, or any number of different things.

Nova points vs.

Baseline makes the difference.

At least that is my feeling.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Smite:
I think the size of the person, and if they are actually massive or not really depends on several factors.

Str 5 as a baseline would be large, and muscular, more so with a high Might. Look at a professional weightlifter or a few other athletes, they can get massive and more massive.

If you where only Str 3 or less until you erupted, you might not be massive. It might be your muscules became more efficent, your have learned to store kinetic energy, or any number of different things.

Nova points vs. Baseline makes the difference.
At least that is my feeling.

I like that, but where it gets messy is with Dorm.

Doc doesn't have dorm (he went from str=2 to 5) so he can get away with "better muscles" or some such.

But could you have a 8 year old kid who erupted, got str=5, m-str=5, dorm=3, taint=0... and still looks like he did? In theory he could dorm and still have a strength of 5.

[Kane Knight]

Here's the trick:

Do whatever you want.

If it fits better to you that Bruce Lee had a Strength of 5, go for it. If not, give him a higher might pool.

People don't transfer well into crunched numbers.

Bruce was certainly buff, but it's a matter of speculation as to whether he could support str 5 with a body like that.

As for women, well, women tend to not get as bulgy when they gain strength. However, when you push it to extremes, your body gets big.

It's also possible to build your muscles up to be more flexible and toned, rather than simply getting them bigger. Back to Bruce, he had some major stretching exercises that would likely help to tone his muscles.

Does it make him a strength 5? If you want him to be, yes. It's a fantasy world and whatnot. Pretty cool, huh? We can make whatever we want out of people.

I think it's more cinematic for people tow be capable of great strength without showing it overtly, myself. But that's just the way I like my games.

The Eleventh Wonder of the World--Does that make me Chyna's grandson?

[Indigo Smith]

I douby anyone is interested anymore but heres my two sense.

It is a scientific fact that humans only use about 1/3 of their muscle fibers at a time. this prevents them from becoming overtired. so if you assume the higher mitochondria levels then a person could use all of theri muscle fibers at once and not have to worry about tiring them out two much.

So in essence a Nova who looks like they could lift only a hundred pounds could in fact lift about 300. If you take this even on step further and assume adrenilin they might be able to lift 400-500 pounds at least briefly.

In high school when i lifted weights everyday I bench pressed 250 pounds in sets of ten-fifteen. at only 5'4 and 130 pounds, no one ever believed it until they saw it.

As far as the rules system or character drawings going. ITS A FREAKING GAME!!!

But thats just my opinion I could be wrong.