Aberrant RPG - WW Bad Decision

[Ruckus]

It's a shame that WW decided to shelve this game due to lack of sales and (supposed) lack of interest. I just recently found the time to get back into it and all the sudden, Bang! no game. This particularly sad when concidering the new wave of "reality" Comics coming from DC and Marvel, notably Ultimates and Ultimate X-men which would seem to fit more into Aberrants premise than say Justice League.

I'm new here and would like to hear your thoughts.

[Sandy Davis]

they f*cked up marketing so much it is not funny.

[Ruckus]

I agree, Its like if it was not dark and soooo ggggoooothic, its not worth their time of day. Sadly, I now find out that Cult of Perosnality is not coming out, which is sad since I think that that aspect of the game had the most potential, characters tha are manipulators like Lex Luthor and Ozymandias just can't be sustained in the current books.

[Sandy Davis]

Well, in an odd way Aberrant is the Darkest of the games.Not because novvas do anything even mor eevil or dark that any of the world of darkness poeple, it is because they are almost all doomed to fall,even as it looks liek they are becoming gods,and angels...

[FLAGG]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandy Davis- Miss-Fortune:
Well, in an odd way Aberrant is the Darkest of the games.Not because novvas do anything even mor eevil or dark that any of the world of darkness poeple, it is because they are almost all doomed to fall,even as it looks liek they are becoming gods,and angels...

So true!

[Anomie]

Unfortunately , WoD now has the 'Fall of Greatness' angle covered in it's new systems of 'Angel' and 'Demon'. Even though it is all backstory, the former represents Abberant, and the latter is Trinity. Soooo, no more need for the tragic hero's of the Aeoniverse.

[Delicious]

Yes and no.They still are saying that poeple are really stupid. In Trinity, it is the will of the poeple that changes so much. I am not talking a bout the will of the people in mage.But the fact that just about everyone knows there are novas/psi.

Look at it this way.I find it more believeable to that there would be novas than I would that people on whole would not know about vampires and what not.

[Ruckus]

Tragic may not be the right choice of words.

WW seems to be partial to its World of Darkness line, which it should be, it made them the force in RPG's that they are today. Sadly they are falling into the same pit that TSR did with AD&D in which you could play a fighter in fantasy world A or for variety you coulkd do it in fantasy world B. WW has being a doomed supernatural Vampire, Doomed Supernatural Werewolf, or for variety a Doomed supernatural Ghost. They are now doing a doomed supernatural Angel or Devil. See a pattern?

Aberrant was different in that first of all the main book advocated changing the metaplot. Something that has never been said in any WW book.

In fact the metaplot was indeed the intrinsic part of the game to the point that removing it removed the flavor or the game.

Aberrant strikes me as a book that came out that was shoehorned into the Trinity Plotline. As far as the aberrants doomed to become taint ridden monsters , It depends on how you play Taint and how you play the meta plot. For instance, In my games abberrantions outside those aquired in initial character creation, do not mainfest (except in extreme cases) physically, but mentally. even this does not mean that characters are insane, just that their powers are removing them from the perspective of humanity. An example of this would be Superman, honestly with all of his powers and abilities, how in touch with humanity is he really? He's not in touch with humanity, including his wife, he has to empathize with them like pets or small children. This does not make him insane just removed.

[Sandy Davis]

THe green latern is a better one to pick.As he not only has more nova liek powers.He used not have them.SO he not only has the view of beingone of the most powerful poeple in the world, but alos being human..Super man is just a "god"..

[Xzaviar]

I think it just sux, but on another note, it just leaves a lot of room for people like us to expand the game and take in our own direction....

[Kane Knight]

I just have one thing to say.

What other company would have put out A! Despite lagging sales? How many gaming companies would have given us Arora Australias or the E-Books?

I regret the loss of the games.

I'm pissed at what happened, but keep in mind that White Wolf did more than their share to support the hardcore fans.

[Sakurako Hino]

...What support?

I never seen much from them. Except "Play WOD".

Why do you think I stopped posting on the opnet, huh? I'm sick and tired of the fact that you can't influence the future without pissing off the canon freaks. I'm sick of it.

[Brucifer]

oy oy

hino - canon freaks aint exactly freaks. In fact in case you hadnt noticed, most roleplayers are geeky freeks any way?

or r u cool?

[Sakurako Hino]

No, let's just say I've run into a few who have said I can't do something because it would "violate cannon". I get so irritated by that I just can't describe it. Sometimes I get to the point that I'm just not playing my character, it's being played for me.

[Meridian]

However cannon is what gives us a common framework. Without cannon it is unlikely that we could come to an agreement as to what kind of world we are playing in. If you want pure chaos in a place like this the first thing you would do would be to drop cannon.

Violating cannon is fine in TT games where folks can talk about things and a single ST will drive the changes ... it's not so neat in a public forum like this.

I also have to say that on a personal level I like the cannon world. It is one of the best published settings I've ever found. The cannon world is the reason I started posting here. Without it I wouldn't have bothered.

[Brucifer]

i have to back up meridian here (as some of you who posted on " canon supremacy" will attest) - the setting is one of the richest created and i think that WW's experience with WoD helped a lot.

Its just a shame that they couldnt see their way to shoring up A!/Ab/Tr so it could be a success.

Sakurako - you are of course right. Gaming is there so YOU can be the hero, not some NPC that the players and the st have no stake in.

And im sure you are cool

any oriental female in a short skirt is....

lol

[Jager]

SH, so there is nothing you want more than to run right at the brick wall? You can't do anything that doesn't threaten cannon?

You are better than that.

No. You can't single-handedly defeat Utopia and smack Pax like he's your b***h. If you did, what would the people who post as Utopians do? I mean, you just destroyed their world. Ended an entire phase of their lives, and there was nothing they could do about it.

What would happen if someone created a dome that trapped all the novas on earth. You couldn't warp, or teleport, or fly out. A Planetary Quantum Baffler. How much fun woul that be for the people who like space exploring characters? Players who have discovered other inhabitable worlds ... which are now off limits.

Sucks, huh?

That is why some of us cling to cannon. It gives everyone a frame work because, nothing happens in a vaccumn, so to speak. Actions have consiquences and repercussions.

Otherwise, Apep melts the Antartic Ice Cap, James Meehan's friends destroy all of Prague, and Avenger kills Chiraben.

[Ashnod]

Or Doc Cornelius takes the chimpanzee population of earth to another galaxy, and Quantum Promise sends California into the ocean?

[Hugin]

Note: I don't 'cling' to canon. I like it. I think it is a rich history with oodles to explore and have fun with. For gods sake, even if we're gaming as late as 2013 we still have twenty or so years before the Aberrant War gets to boogying.

You want to dump canon? Cool, I know people who get pissy when you won't introduce guns into D&D and think that Call of Cthulhu shouldn't be such a downer. Different strokes for different folks.

[Hugin]

And hey, it's not like Prague was all that cool a city to begin with. Turning it all to salt was an improvement if you ask me.

[Agnelli Celeste]

No story is prefect for everyone.On setting is either. Nor are Systems.

But there are some system,setting,and sotries that are better at somethings.I enjoyaround 95% of the aberrant setting,and nearly as much as the rules. I am woking on a few ways to make the world,and rules better.That is not by anymeans saying I od not like the game.

And as far as I see it, most super hero games are just that.A game about super heros. I want a game where you have people who have super power, not super powers that have people.

[Sakurako Hino]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
SH, so there is nothing you want more than to run right at the brick wall? You can't do anything that doesn't threaten cannon?
You are better than that.

No. You can't single-handedly defeat Utopia and smack Pax like he's your b***h. If you did, what would the people who post as Utopians do? I mean, you just destroyed their world. Ended an entire phase of their lives, and there was nothing they could do about it.

What would happen if someone created a dome that trapped all the novas on earth. You couldn't warp, or teleport, or fly out. A Planetary Quantum Baffler. How much fun woul that be for the people who like space exploring characters? Players who have discovered other inhabitable worlds ... which are now off limits.
Sucks, huh?

That is why some of us cling to cannon. It gives everyone a frame work because, nothing happens in a vaccumn, so to speak. Actions have consiquences and repercussions.
Otherwise, Apep melts the Antartic Ice Cap, James Meehan's friends destroy all of Prague, and Avenger kills Chiraben.

Yes, but then again, there are stupid little novas like Sakurako who just want to live life quietly. And Apep wanting to melt Antarctica? She'll have to get past the protectors first. Second, What's to say that if I throw down with Pax that I won't get beat? Nothing. I'd get my sorry sailorsuited arse kicked back into kindegarten faster than you can say demoted. Canon characters should have some sort of "plot invulneribility". In other words, unless you're playing canon characters, they are pretty much going to go along with the flow and not have any chance of being bothered. Leaving players to be flies in their ointment. Yes, what you say is worst case, but I've seen enough of charcter play here that there is a code of honor around here. No one will really violate canon by killing off characters. My methods is that everything up to THIS POINT has happened, and everything afterward is the future that is made in tandem with NPC class characters. But, I am a firm believer that fate is what we make of it.
to base your character's actions on percieved events that could happen... it's almost like metagaming thought to me. I wan't to play Sakurako like a idealist. I like seeing Apep as the Teragen avatar of vengance. I like Jager as the silent guardian of the helpless (remember Red Alert?). I like the characters here, but instead of letting metagame influence decisions, we should play our characters as we see them, not as cogs in the canon machine.

[Cody]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sakurako Hino:
I like the characters here, but instead of letting metagame influence decisions, we should play our characters as we see them, not as cogs in the canon machine.

The aberrant war is coming and will start officially in 2046 but is it a genocidal race war with thousands dying every day in horrible nova terrorist attacks? Are the people dying in those numbers because when titans clash innocents bleed ala "Kingdom Come"? Or is it some terrorist attacks like Tampa over a 40 year period coupled with one or two truly spectacular quantum fuck ups that were well intentioned? Canon does NOT tell us which of these possibilities, and a hundred more, is actually leads up to the Ultimatum.

Canon challenges our characters to ask questions and find answers within a common framework. Some of those answers will be incomplete or wrong but that's role playing. And Jager is 100% completely right - actions have consequences and repercussions.

[Sakurako Hino]

One problem. OUR CHARACTERS DON'T KNOW THAT'S COMING! The problem with WW is that they LET metagamer thought influence character play. Most game campaigns happen within a 2 year frame of the timeline. Here, looking at post #1, it's been around three. So we're at like what? 2011? 2012? We cannot see (unless we time travel) the hell that is yet to be unleashed. So why should we make decisions based on what is printed in a book outside of game reality?

I prefer to play as if I don't know what's coming in three decades. It's sort of like if you knew what was going to happen, would you try to prevent it, or make it happen. Those two choices I DO NOT want to be limited to. There is more than 0s and 1s in a dynamic and changing reality.

[Jordan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sakurako Hino:
One problem. OUR CHARACTERS DON'T KNOW THAT'S COMING! The problem with WW is that they LET metagamer thought influence character play. Most game campaigns happen within a 2 year frame of the timeline. Here, looking at post #1, it's been around three. So we're at like what? 2011? 2012? We cannot see (unless we time travel) the hell that is yet to be unleashed. So why should we make decisions based on what is printed in a book outside of game reality?

I prefer to play as if I don't know what's coming in three decades. It's sort of like if you knew what was going to happen, would you try to prevent it, or make it happen. Those two choices I DO NOT want to be limited to. There is more than 0s and 1s in a dynamic and changing reality.

Ah, but here's the rub. A goodly percentage of the Nova population ARE able to sus out what will, or most likely happen. From Precogs to the insanely intelligent and perceptive, hell, even the cross time travelers can all figure out the world MAY not end up in a happy, happy place. Also, as we can see just from this forum alone, it is more than likely that those Novas who have an inkling of what the future holds will tend to be rather vocal about it.

As for the "one of two choices" bit, Jordan has a very good idea of the shit storm that may be on the horizon yet he doesn't seem to be locked in that "I must prevent it/I must make it happen scenario." He works at his own agenda and lives his own life, all within the rather roomy confines of "Cannon." Oh, and by the way, time here is subjective. For Jordan, almost 5 years has past since his eruption. When I started posting with him, he had only been a Nova for around six months. I like the timeless feel here.

Let me tackle this another way by asking you this this Tom. What, exactly, about the Cannon universe don't you like? Aside from The interaction between Abbie and Aeon (Which they are very clear about telling you to ignore if you so choose) what is it about the Cannon universe that irks you so much?

[Sakurako Hino]

1: The polarization toward the "Aberrant War" pulls too strongly here and in the game world as a whole. It seems no matter what your character or troupe does, the enevatible will happen. Even if you leave reading the material to the storyteller, it will always seem to drag to that conclusion based on the material out there. Storyteller games are notorious for having metagame influences in character concepts and backgrounds.

2: The major things a nova can be are either Utopians, Terats, Elites, or Indies. Corporates are rare and looked upon as sellouts, even though they are in the position of greatest influence, and the "other factions" presented in the APG are all stereotypical. Ever see a liberal greenfront(or whatever their names are) member? The only ones that interest me are the protectors, but roleplay potentials with them are far limited (they are isolationists after all).

Those are my two major problems with the game as a whole. But wait, there's a couple more big peeves.

1: Utopians are looked upon by everyone I've come across that has played this game as conspiritors against either novakind or humanity.

2: Terats are looked upon at the "cool" thing to be. (A bit of sabbat influence there dudes.)

I tend to fall into the lines of one that just lets things fall into their lap, but I do gravitate toward those that want to make things better in the world. Call me a sucker for 4-color, but I'd rather be fighting the good fight to unite Humans and Novas in understanding and peace than Spoiling to have a deciding war between Humans and Novas. I'f I was a Mutant, I'd be in Xavier's camp. But there is no real faction in Aberrant I can hang with.

Am I trying too hard?

[Sandy Davis]

Now again i am a new fish in this pond, well at least a some what young one, but in the games I played,and the way I see the canon..Is that Good guys must be evil,and evil must be the under dogs.

Now here is my problem with this. One the teragen have just about every bad trait of all the wrost forms of goverments that have every been.Let me just say that if I was a nova as powerful as Sandy Davis,I would make sure the that the teragen saw the evil they do on others.But I am not Sandy.

Now, why is do I play Sandy as such a powerful nova.It is simple, I wanted to play a charatcer who had verry little reason to fear anything. SHe doesn't fear any noas on the wrold, save for maybe three of them.One of them is Mal,and another is one that never shows it's face.And lastly she fears herself. SHe fears what would happen if she had a bad day.I could go into more details, but that would be further off topic in this post.

As I was saying the Teragen are in no way the good guys. Utopia is not the purist thing in the world, but they good enough to be called a nessary evil. In the end the only group I cna say as good, are the Aberrants.

They truely are the underdogs,and they are fighting wha tthey believe in.THey are trying to make the world a better place,and wile they may do some bad things along the way, they do so when it serves a greater good.So, there you go, the heros of our story.

[Sakurako Hino]

But, by 2012 in the canon, the Aberrants are all captured, dead, or missing. At least, that's what I've read.

[Sandy Davis]

Not at all Tommy boy. like the thrid most powerful cannon Nova is leading them, and boy is she cool. Read Phase 2 page 59. Given solid proof that in the Canon, the Heros, the Aberrants are alive and kicking it, boiiiieeee!

[Sakurako Hino]

Sorry, don't have it. And material I have read speaks to the contrary. I've yet to remember where I read it, though. If I'm wrong, it's not like Endeavor would join them. She's too clean cut to be an outlaw. But, she can be scary in her own ways. (BTW, If I do bring her back, she will be a 50pt creation. I gotta grow her somehow.)

[Sandy Davis]

they are around at least untill late 2014, in the cannon, seeing as the last refance of '14 is nto showing them to be going away,I would say that hey are around at least logn enought to see the war.

[Meridian]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sakurako Hino:
1: The polarization toward the "Aberrant War" pulls too strongly here and in the game world as a whole.

2: The major things a nova can be are either Utopians, Terats, Elites, or Indies. Corporates are rare and looked upon as sellouts, even though they are in the position of greatest influence, and the "other factions" presented in the APG are all stereotypical.

As for number 1, I simply don’t see it Tom either here or in everything else. Time and time again in the game material they point out that the war is optional, that Aberrant is it’s own game, and ways to change scenarios so that they don’t inevitably lead to war.

I also wonder where in the world you got the idea that Corporates are rare or considered sellouts? One of the reasons I like Aberrant cannon so much is that it strongly implies that MOST novas go corporate. Sure the game adventures focus on the non-corporate types more but the setting material makes it clear that the Corporate world is where most novas end up. You don’t ever see Alejandra referred to as a sellout in the material and she is as corp as you get. The non-DVNTS sections of DeVries is also very Corporate.

I’m also going to disagree with you on the ‘other factions’ statement. You see one of those other factions, the Daedalus League, here in the person of Walker. I don’t see them as stereotypical. I think that you could do similar things with most of the others. Even the Protectors could make for an interesting game or PC.

Quote:

1: Utopians are looked upon by everyone I've come across that has played this game as conspiritors against either novakind or humanity.

2: Terats are looked upon at the "cool" thing to be

All I have to say is that your take on Utopians is not how I see them at all. Proteus yes. Utopians no. Utopians are the selfless folks out to help novas and humans alike. They are as close to the X-Men & Avengers as you can get in Aberrant ... and they should get pretty darn close. I've known lots of scientist who go into the field to 'give back' to society even though they will make less money. I've also known motivated members of charitable groups. They are committed to making the world better. I've met dedicated police officers and medical personnel. I've heard about selfless HAM operators who go into third world countries to help them set up emergency communications systems with the outside world. These are the kinds of men and women who would join Utopia ... and they would be out to do the right things and they would be able to make a difference when organized like this. 99% of Utopians would be good solid people just trying to make the world better. Unfortunately most of the time solid citizens are not considered cool. How many adolescents and young men think of a female scientist who spends most of her days in a refrigerated room working with plastic dishes and glass tubes to be ‘cool?’ Or think of Ambulance drivers as ‘rad?’ Not many but then few of them will have that much exposure to these kinds of people.

Many gamers I've met have been social outcasts of one sort or another. So of course the Teragen would be 'cool' to them. The Teragen are the outcasts of the Aberrant world and to top it all off they have some potent secrets that the rest of the world doesn't ... even other novas. Plus they have bad boy Mal on their side. And if all that weren’t enough many gamers don’t particularly care for authority figures and you don’t get more anti-authority than the Teragen.
I can easily see how many gamers I've known would be drawn to the Teragen but that doesn’t make the game flawed. If anything it simply shows me the lack of real world experience that some gaming groups might have if only the Teragen is cool to them.

So it isn’t really a system flaw here as much as a people issue. Play with the right group and your expectations will get reversed real quick. These days it would be REALLY easy to have a game where the Teragen is the Al Quaeda of the Aberrant world and they aren’t exactly cool these days in America either. If anything 9/11 shows how the game designers underestimated the negative publicity and feelings that a group like the Teragen would create … and the effort that governments would spend to track them down.

[Kirby1024]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sakurako Hino:
But, by 2012 in the canon, the Aberrants are all captured, dead, or missing. At least, that's what I've read.

The Aberrants were never captured or killed. If you follow the general canon (and it is vague in this area), after the trial of Corbin, when the fishiness around Lander's death was exposed (one way or another), many Aberrants had basically fulfilled their purpose for joining the Aberrants, and chose to walk away from the movement. The Aberrants were really a one-issue party, and that issue, dependant on the actions of the PCs in that adventure, was mostly resolved.

Of course, the battles never die. Many Aberrants chose not to throw away the fight, and continued to stay in hiding, gathering evidence against Project Utopia, feeling there was yet more to the conspiracy. These Aberrants still exist, and likely will continue to exist until all of Utopia's wrongdoings are revealed, probably longer. The Aberrants were a disjointed unit, most Aberrants joining for reasons different to others. Many novas joined the Aberrants due to problems with Utopia, many are likely quite unstable. They will likely stop at nothing until Utopia is completely dismantled, violently or otherwise. Even in 2008, Different groups of Aberrants had conflicting reasons for associating with the group.

It's likely Sophia Rosseau is still around, guiding those Aberrants still around, and it's quite likely that after the exposure of Utopia, some Utopians chose to join the Aberrants, in one way or another.

In short, the Aberrants aren't dead, oh no no no. They are quite alive. Everyone needs a cause, a banner to rally to. The Aberrants are just a good a banner as any other, even in 2015...

[Cody]

"Aberrants" are limited in scope. Although some people think of them as a middle of the road group between the Terats and Utopia, they're really the ones that bought into the Utopia dream only to find out reality doesn't quite match the press release. Aberrants want Utopia cleaned up (if they have an inkling of Proteus) or adhering to a less flexible sense of ethics (if they know about the dirty dealings). If you decide to go Aberrant you might want to figure out why the character cares about Utopia.

And I don't think terats are "cool" with or without the sabbat trash. A lot of gamers like that comparison but I just don't buy it. The truth is that a T2M or generic Utopian has a thousand guidelines to follow, a chain of command and has to "get the job done" without making PU look bad. They get performance reviews, counseling by their bosses and probably have some sort of annual or semi-annual recertification process. They give of them selves over and over only to hear snide remarks, be snickered at in Amp Room bathroom and hear cynical comments from the very people they want to help. Utopia novas are dedicated, either a little or a lot, and are often heroes or at least capable or being heroic.

Terats don't have any of that plus they get to be gods. You don't need comparisons to angsty halloween refugees to understand why most gamers are attracted to the terats.

[Sakurako Hino]

Well. That's alot to digest in one sitting.

You see, outside of the two books I had gotten I didn't understand certain things other than things I glanced through at a game shop. So my memory on such issues is vague or possibly faulty. I had gamed with the wrong crowd TT for this game, they seem to have warped my views of this universe. Perhaps it's I who needs to get re-educated a bit.

Ignorance seems to have detracted from my enjoyment here. I have been playing here on notions I think I may have been completely WRONG about.

[Cody]

Unless you plan on getting the books and reading through them you can to try this; brainstorm the top ten question you have about the game/game world. Then pick the top three and put them up here on the board for people to comment on. I'm betting folks will be more than happy to explain some of the ins-and-outs of their favorite game world...

There's going to be some creep on the answers though. I mean some terats really are murderous pychotic bastards that are "too terat to know better". Some Utopians really are backstabbing duplicious jerks looking for somebody to take the fall for their mistakes. I generally think both of these fall into the minority when compared to the larger group but that might be just me. Is taint good? Depends on how you approach it. Are novas human? Depends on how you define human. Is the Aberrant War coming? Something is coming but people disagree on how nasty it'll be and who will do what.

Still... give it a shot and see what you get back.

[Jager]

Cody has a great idea. Run with it.

[Sakurako Hino]

I'll do you one better. I'll throw out 5.

1: How much of a conspiracy is there in Utopia and how does it influence them?

2: By percentage, how much is the "Al Quaeda" type and how much is the "Nova Rights Activist" type?

3: How, if at all, and when, does the Aberrant War start?

4: Which faction(s) of novas make it to Eden?

5: Who do you trust the most? Independent Novas, Utopians, Teragen, Corporate, or Elite Novas?

[Agnelli Celeste]

5) Well, seeing as Independents, have the less to gain from lying, you can trust them the most.But they also know less than anyone else, just about the same with Corporate,and Elites.

I would say it is best to gow ith Utopia.THe teragen do nto really have morals,and are to split to have anyone "face".

[Matt]

Answers for 1, 2 & 5 are my opinion. 3 is as listed in the Trinity book. 4 is partially from SF, partially from a comment by Trinity Developer and partially my opinion.

1. A little goes a long way. There is not a lot of conspiracy behind Utopia, but because of the organization's power, anything they do that isn't completely positive will be looked at in a completely negative light. And there are a few worms hiding in the apple.

2. Going by percentage of people, I'd say close to 0%. But again, a little goes a long way.

3. The war officially starts in 2049. Here is the timeline.

4. Eden is not comprised of any single faction, but rather Novas that simply wanted to escape the war. Diana Kadmon was the leader for the trip to Eden. My obvious guess would be that at least some of the 67 Novas there would have been affiliated with the Daedelus League.

5. People are a not an absolute reflection of the factions in which they participate, and trying to judge trust by their relations would not be the safest way to evaluate a Nova.