Vampire the Requiem 2.0 Discussion

[Jess OOC]

This thread is for out-of-character discussion for the VtM 2.0 genre (aka Blood & Smoke).

[Jess OOC]

We're expecting Secrets of the Covenants to release pretty soon, and as soon as it does, the draft Global Addendum for this genre will be updated with the information from that very important sourcebook.

[RaySS3]

I am looking at playing a Nosferatu of the Order of Sir Martin Bloodline (Ancient Bloodlines, page 137). I am hoping I could have two more people join me on this. My basic thoughts is my PC was embraced because he was an white elitist that was against the Aparthid ending (reflecting the bloodlines theme of extremism). With this in mind, my PC would only embrace those that are white. I have no intention of RPing out extreme racism, but there will be elements that will be in play.

 

If this game has a very weak Invictus presence I am looking at playing a Spina and a member of the Thorned Wreath. With this I will need someone that wants to play an important and/or high status Invictus in which my character would protect. Keep in mind your PC will need to behave properly, or my PC would leave his/her service.

[Jeremy]

As for me, I am looking at this concept. An American teen, whose family goes through a divorce. The father and his girlfriend get custody, and the trio are going to visit South Africa for 'family bonding.' As I mentioned in the city thread, the plane goes down, and most people on board died. Including Daddy and Daddy's Girl. My PC manages against all odds to make it to shore, but is about to expire when a vampire nearby, is impressed enough to Embrace him.

 

My PC therefore would be a neonate of a few months unlife at official chronicle start and officially recorded as dead. I hope that a willing other PC or notable NPC is willing to be the sire, thus clan and starting covenant would depend on said sire.

[M Hendrix OOC]

As for me, I am looking at this concept. An American teen, whose family goes through a divorce. The father and his girlfriend get custody, and the trio are going to visit South Africa for 'family bonding.' As I mentioned in the city thread, the plane goes down, and most people on board died. Including Daddy and Daddy's Girl. My PC manages against all odds to make it to shore, but is about to expire when a vampire nearby, is impressed enough to Embrace him.

 

My PC therefore would be a neonate of a few months unlife at official chronicle start and officially recorded as dead. I hope that a willing other PC or notable NPC is willing to be the sire, thus clan and starting covenant would depend on said sire.

 

I'd be happy to portray your sire.  We can work out the details of clan/etc privately, I'm pretty flexible as long as you're not interested in playing an Invictus.  I have a really hard time RP-ing that type of PC.

[Jeremy]

I'd be happy to portray your sire.  We can work out the details of clan/etc privately, I'm pretty flexible as long as you're not interested in playing an Invictus.  I have a really hard time RP-ing that type of PC.

 

That's fine. You can find me in chat under Jeremy or PM me at the Charlie Cole account (for the PC). Basically, I would suspect by default he'd start in whatever Covenant his sire was in - indoctrination, you know. Whether or not he would find it the right fit would develop over the game...

 

[Harakani]

Possibly this is the wrong place for this discussion, but:

One of the things that has damaged the club in Oz (in my opinion) is the fact a number of people in Requiem try to stick with a canon that has the cities as completely independent and isolated. Other games are similar.

A major 'selling point' of the club is the national and international game. Isolated cities defeats this selling point.

One improvement in Requiem2 is that there are Conclaves of cities.

 

It seems to me that it would be beneficial to lay the groundwork now to have a Conclave of the member clubs' cities.

 

Yes, I realise that at the moment there will only be one city anyway, but if the plan is to eventually have others why not set up for it now.

 

Given that historically there was a strong trade route from the Cape of Good Hope to Australia this might be a way to start developing this.

 

[RaySS3]

As a side note. I am open to other ideas, but I would prefer to avoid playing a Crone as I have one already on Requiem 1.0

[Jess OOC]

Harakani's post for the win, folks.

[Jeremy]

With regard to that, there most certainly is the Internet, email, IMs, phones, webcams, Skype and more. So certainly they probably can handle a lot of the casual inter-city communication in that way. Probably private night flights arranged for when paranoia means you HAVE to meet face to face.

[Harakani]

Thanks Jess

Jeremy: absolutely... and the entire idea of the cacophony supports that now.

 

Book suggests (p69)

* ancilla coterie that deliberately spread across domains

* regional conclave around creed or agenda that behaves like a covenant

* powerful elder spreads her bloodline across a region

* a group of elders that were a coterie in their youth and keep in touch (rather than stay in one city and fight each other?)

 

Possibly a gallows-post like group that (as the reasons became easier to travel) moved into the other covenants but still stayed in touch?

 

There's obvious Dutch East India potential, but I think that is in use in the current chronicle.

 

Edit: I'd be happy to take a guy with Close Family. If the ST is nice about the "same continent" then potentially that would allow blood sympathy up to three removed. If a couple of us did this we might have something.

 

 

 

[Jeremy]

It occurs to me that the Ordo Dracul is exactly the type to have online and occasional inter-city talking - being as they are dedicated towards the same goal: one that really would emphasize the sharing of information in their covenant culture. So maybe we should have something for various cities in the region and the Dragons sharing their stuff?

 

Dragon-con 2015?

[The Story Guide]

I'm debating between an Invictus character that's an Au Pair (so, she could help facilitate contact between neonates) or an Ordo Dracul (because....I love Dragons ). I like Jer's idea - perhaps a network of small academies that work together throughout the region?

 

Also, I would see the younger Invictus using mass communication and travel as a way to establish their own power bases and maneuver against their elders in ways the older Kindred aren't well-equipped to deal with. That could help with a regional feel to the game as well as providing nice plot cookies for the Invictus in particular, the general Kindred population in the area, and for neonate characters to be bucking the "old guard" from day one - with cellphones!

 

I forget, do Kindred show up on webcams and whatnot or are they still blurry unless they spend Willpower? ....I've only slept an hour so today with a fussy baby, so my head for remembering rules changes is just mush.

[Harakani]

There was a ruling on the Onyx Path that vamps don't show up well on cameras... unless they want to, in which case they're fine.

I like they stopped the "masquerade protection" power from being the number 1 masquerade problem

 

Malachite: you don't need to choose anymore! Covenants are non-exclusionary[1].

 

I also like Jer's idea, but really don't want to see a single-covenant or single-clan Conclave. So - how about a Mystery Cult?

PCs who want to do national/international politics can just buy a dot and be part of the shadowy cross-covenant organisation organising the yearly get-togethers.

It is an extra xp cost.

OD can basically get their xp back through mystery cult junkie.

If it grants a Library, I think LS can as well through loremaster(?).

odds are 90% of people are going to buy a language

Give some occult for the crone, maybe?

Carthians and Invictus probably get enough out of another political string to their bow.

 

Wow, the more I think about this, the more I like it.

Gives a reason for not realistically persecuting PCs: if the Crone Heirophant takes power in a bloody coup, why not just kill all the Lance? Mystery Cult Initiation (and clan ties, which are already there).

Could probably even give a reason for the yearly get-together in a different city.

 

Yeah, that could really work.

 

[1] within a 5 status limit and only one True covenant, I believe. 

[Jeremy]

Actually, look at the alpha drafts on OP for the covenants. They set up merits for non-members with benefits, if you will. Those might work better.

[RaySS3]

I been wanting to play OD for a while, but I will be playing one soon enough in another game. I was reading through the Invictus book and I was like I could play a Notary. 

 

I am now looking at playing a Ventrue with the Malkovians bloodline. If need me to help facilitate some things I can be older than I was playing.

 

We sort of need to get a VST in place unless the DpoTM guy is going to run it.

[Harakani]

Except that they actually cost more than being a member, and pretty much grant less. They're not very popular, so I'm not sure if they'll get through to the final drafts. 

I know there are players who actively dislike the OD and are probably not going to want to have to join, even as an 'honorary' member. 

I also worry it might mean you're still going to end up with a close to mono-covenant game at the global level.

There's an opportunity here to build a Mystery Cult that actually helps steer the direction of the game.

Are there any sanctioned Mystery Cults at the moment?

 

I started to write a suggestion - hell, if global is interested I'll build a character around it - but I'm not sure what the etiquette is for large brainstorms.

Currently it is a Google Doc at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mHN7AKje0fKlwoNql5sC6Mffi2sO-97C0qg5Nwf1UNU/edit?usp=sharing if people want to take a look. Warning: it is about two pages long, and very draft.

 

[Jeremy]

Ok, so Mystery Cult then. Personally, I'm unsure about the Glyphs, but having an MC to represent the Conclaves is fine. What's the scope you're thinking? Regional? Continental? National?

[Harakani]

Global, I guess.

 

Yeah, the Glyphs thing was just an example. A bit Lost Room, a bit Unknown Armies, hoping to get GMC. 

 

Mostly figured a cult around chasing and collecting McGuffins might be a good way to go.

[Harakani]

Oh man... did I kill this? 

Do we know what the ST structure is going to look like? Will there be a VST:VtR2, a DST: PbP, a GST:VtR2, an NST:PbP and the MST?

Edit: I don't think there needs to be. Sounds like AMST:DPoTM is effectively going to be DST, and I ...

you know what, guys, I work in IT and I think there's too many acronyms here...

Do we just need someone to run each game/venue, and the office of the MST can handle the rest including inter-venue coordination?

 

Also, I've never done a non-pathfinder PbP, so I'd love to get some sort of idea for how this is going to run.

 

[Jess OOC]

I can answer the chain-of-command issue.  This play-by-post domain is directly handled from the Global office.  So your ST structure will be a Venue Storyteller, possibly a Domain Storyteller, the Global Genre Storytellers, and the Master Storyteller.  Approvals at High to Top I'll be asking the GGSTs to handle, while I'll tackle Global approvals.  If there's no DST, I'll possibly ask my Deputy MST to step in for Mid Approvals.

 

- Jess

[Harakani]

Thanks Jess

 

[CJ D]

Anyone had any ideas in regards to the Kindred Court Structure of Cape Town?

[Harakani]

I'm hoping we'll use something like Damnation City, given it is one of the few books approved, and that it is awesome!

[Jeremy]

Anyone had any ideas in regards to the Kindred Court Structure of Cape Town?

 

Well, first question, how many Kindred are we looking at roughly (PCs and NPCs).

[Harakani]

We've had about 7 posters so far, right? Does that give us a clue to the number of PCs?

[Jeremy]

We've had about 7 posters so far, right? Does that give us a clue to the number of PCs?

 

Yes, but are you proposing some NPC to PC ratio?

[CJ D]

I was thinking mostly just in terms of Basic Underlying structure (though obviously population density is relevant, as is anyone who has their heart set on a specific city position.) Cape Town offers some unique opportunities as far as timeline and local culture goes. While by no means completely isolated, this is a location disparate from the Euro-American perspective that a lot of vampire is written from. Basically this is a good as opportunity as any get a bit weird.

[Jess OOC]

I suspect that as June gets closer, we'll see a good deal more than seven players for Requiem. 

[Harakani]

Jess: Yeah, I'm hopeful. But I thought there'd be a lot more people here already. On the other hand, I understand lurkers normally outnumber posters obn board.

Jeremy: I am not, but if this is a mostly player-player interaction game (as opposed to player-environment) then PC numbers are far more critical than NPCs.

CJD: maybe because it's so early, but could you expand on what you mean? 

 

[Jeremy]

Thoughts have occurred to me:

 

• Given all the disparate ethnic groups (Xhosa, San, Zulu, English, Boer, Indian) that have melanged and been on same and differing sides, why not have a Council of Elders instead of a straight up Prince?
• Also, since we're dealing with a legacy of racism/apartheid, the Invictus and Lancea have a European privilege stereotyping, likewise the Carthians and Crone have been stereotyped with African and Indian populations.
• Meaning that the Inv/LS have held the franchise domination over the Council of Elders for so long, that the shift in the system occurred thanks to purely mortal influence. The end of apartheid shook up the mortal systems that the Inv and LS had a stranglehold on, letting the 'lesser' covenants get their bite at the table.

[CJ D]

Kind of hoping Vito, would chime in here, he's better at this History thing than I am.

 

So, working off wikipedia here. Cape Town's history is filled with a lot of people from a lot different places colonizing, fighting, exploiting, segregating etc, presumably the Vampire history should mirror this is in someway, since the vampire population is usually derived from the local everyone-else population. So when exactly did the "Vampire Establishment" show up? Were there already vampires around at the time? How did the change in dominance among the everyone-else effect changes in the Court? The Lancea Et Sanctum and the Invictus tend to be all about the status quo, and Cape Town kind of seems like a terrible place for someone with that priority. (Though that doesn't mean they wouldn't try).

[Harakani]

 

Thoughts have occurred to me:

 

• Given all the disparate ethnic groups (Xhosa, San, Zulu, English, Boer, Indian) that have melanged and been on same and differing sides, why not have a Council of Elders instead of a straight up Prince?
• Also, since we're dealing with a legacy of racism/apartheid, the Invictus and Lancea have a European privilege stereotyping, likewise the Carthians and Crone have been stereotyped with African and Indian populations.
• Meaning that the Inv/LS have held the franchise domination over the Council of Elders for so long, that the shift in the system occurred thanks to purely mortal influence. The end of apartheid shook up the mortal systems that the Inv and LS had a stranglehold on, letting the 'lesser' covenants get their bite at the table.

 

I love that Council of Elders idea. If we use the word Elders I think it is going to get confused with Clan Elders though. Unless that's what you meant, how about using a different word. Possibly Kings, Princes, Regents or Oudste?

 

(North) Africa was a Roman province in 146BC. Seems like the Invictus could well have infiltrated down through the continent in 2000 odd years. I agree that incoming white vampires might well have been Invictus, not sure they wouldn't have run into native Invictus as well. I don't like Terra Nullus, and if there were native vamps (even in small numbers) perhaps they should have had a Covenant.

I'm 100% with you on the Lance being 'newcomers' though. 

Worth pointing out that the Crone is a relatively recently formed Celtic religion that then brought in existing 'pagan' religions.

Seems like Gallowspost would have been a big faction in a town like this for a long time.

 

Kind of hoping Vito, would chime in here, he's better at this History thing than I am.

 

So, working off wikipedia here. Cape Town's history is filled with a lot of people from a lot different places colonizing, fighting, exploiting, segregating etc, presumably the Vampire history should mirror this is in someway, since the vampire population is usually derived from the local everyone-else population. So when exactly did the "Vampire Establishment" show up? Were there already vampires around at the time? How did the change in dominance among the everyone-else effect changes in the Court? The Lancea Et Sanctum and the Invictus tend to be all about the status quo, and Cape Town kind of seems like a terrible place for someone with that priority. (Though that doesn't mean they wouldn't try).

Hmm. Seems to have had a low population in the area for a long time. That suggests not a lot of vamps. On the other hand the setup probably did allow a pretty good vamp:human ratio.

 

Given Dutch East India set this up, that suggests they would have been the establishment at the start? And there seems to be a history of establishments getting overthrown.

[Jeremy]

 

I love that Council of Elders idea. If we use the word Elders I think it is going to get confused with Clan Elders though. Unless that's what you meant, how about using a different word. Possibly Kings, Princes, Regents or Oudste?

 

I just meant elders in terms of age, conceptually speaking. It can be whatever Council of X we choose to officially call it. The key is that there is no single autocratic ruler like most cities.

 

 

I'm 100% with you on the Lance being 'newcomers' though.

 

According to Wiki, the Dutch Reformed Church was a big deal with the Boers and original colonists - it would make as good as any a group for the Lancea to come onto the scene with.

[CJ D]

The early settling well predates both the Carthian Movement and Circle of the Crone, and Dracula's less than 100 years dead (not sure how long it took between his vampirism and the formation of the ordo.) Definitely seems like the Invictus and Lance would be the dominant force for awhile, in so far they they'd represent a unified front. I'd imagine even without a specific enemy to thwart them, there would still be instability.

 

Not so certain about Roman Province angle though. Travel sucks for vampires, more so 2000 years ago through africa, with no Gallows Post. Also they'd develop in isolation of the rest of the Invictus and would miss out on the relationship with the up-and-coming Lancea Et Sanctum. (y'know the guys who codified the Traditions and the Masquerade.) I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but they'd probably end up rather distinct from the Vanilla Invictus.

 

I'm all for a Vampiric Oligarchy

[Harakani]

I just meant elders in terms of age, conceptually speaking. It can be whatever Council of X we choose to officially call it. The key is that there is no single autocratic ruler like most cities.

I'm keen to avoid making it strictly age, I'd prefer to see it based on popularity/status. Otherwise when people put in an application for an older PC (which I was looking at doing) they're also putting in an application for a rulership position that is difficult to take off them in game.

Additionally Torpor screws with this: is a three hundred year old vamp who spent the last two centuries in torpor older than a two hundred year old vamp?

I'm fine with 'Elder' being an honorific.

And I think the idea of avoiding an autocratic ruler is brilliant. 

[Harakani]

Not so certain about Roman Province angle though. Travel sucks for vampires, more so 2000 years ago through africa, with no Gallows Post. Also they'd develop in isolation of the rest of the Invictus and would miss out on the relationship with the up-and-coming Lancea Et Sanctum. (y'know the guys who codified the Traditions and the Masquerade.) I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but they'd probably end up rather distinct from the Vanilla Invictus.

 

Valid point. I think things could get through (it's about 3.5 km/year from egypt to cape town). On the other hand, if the population densities were low (and I think they were) then quite possibly native 'covenants' were pretty much just family structures. That provides even more for Jeremy's Council of Elders.

[Jeremy]

I'm keen to avoid making it strictly age, I'd prefer to see it based on popularity/status. Otherwise when people put in an application for an older PC (which I was looking at doing) they're also putting in an application for a rulership position that is difficult to take off them in game.

Additionally Torpor screws with this: is a three hundred year old vamp who spent the last two centuries in torpor older than a two hundred year old vamp?

I'm fine with 'Elder' being an honorific.

And I think the idea of avoiding an autocratic ruler is brilliant. 

 

That's what I meant, but didn't quite explain it so well. And thank you, I'm getting all warm and fuzzy.

[Harakani]

I guess now the question is whether anyone wants to play a Councillor.

 

Does anyone know if there is timeline for a VST? I know the game starts in June, but I've got at least one approval and history has taught me to allow plenty of time.

[RaySS3]

Where can I got Blood & Smoke from? I am not seeing it on Drivethrurpg.com?