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Open World M&M 3e


Dave ST

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I'm thinking that a university of super heros would need to teach them to defend themselves, even if they don't necessarily want to fight, a person with powers better know how too, if nothing else to for self defense. Every super hero university I've read about has something along those lines, if nothing else to make sure their students are ready for a world that can be hostile.

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I'd have to agree, at least on the outright combat training. Self defense might be more logical. If at all.

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Otherwise there are other places supers an go to learn how to lay the superpowered smackdown. That and there is always off-campus sparring.

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I think my second character will be a teacher at the university (specializing in teaching investigative techniques and forensic investigation) while being a part-time consulting detective.

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Plus Ensign might stop by from time to time to check up on things and see if there have been any issues with the high-tech minded at the university. You guys'll have her number on speed-dial. Count on it.

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I can see where you're coming from. I have two reservations. One is thematic, one is more metagame.

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Thematically, the school is intended to be an example of what supers and normals can accomplish in an atmosphere of peace and cooperation. This underlying theme is counter to the notion of a facility dedicated to training supers to fight, just as it's counter to the idea of having armored walls with gun turrets on them...even though having those things would certainly make the school more secure against some of the threats it sometimes faces.

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Mechanically, I am resisting the urge to simply throw every feature into the thing simply because I can. A large university campus already covers a LOT of stuff, and I don't want a situation where there's several big mega-HQs scattered over the game world, all of which have everything, and are only differentiated by faction. I'd be happier if there were distinctions in the services offered. Maybe Super U doesn't give you combat training, but has a really good infirmary, or library or computer...meanwhile there's another place in Bavaria that offers supers a sweet Danger Room, but lacks other features.

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A one-stop shopping solution means that characters have no incentive (other than purely roleplaying) to move around and meet new people and see new places. And while purely roleplaying reasons are fine and not to be scoffed at, I do tend to prefer when mechanics and roleplaying go hand in hand, and are not at odds.

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Ok, after checking back through this thread the only mentions are specifically that you can play a god, so if that has changed, then it must have been a chat only thing that hasn't made it to this thread. I'd definitely put my voice in for allowing them, unless there was some good reason for not.

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I'm with Max here, for all of the reasons listed. Also, the University could have an affiliation agreement with another school, a combat school. SU is a place of learning and education, not an armed camp.

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Can a villain strike the school? Certainly. They can strike any school in the world. They're villains. And who says their kids don't go there too, in secret? Where better to learn about the "other side" than at college? Where better to learn the weaknesses of their generation than at the relaxed atmosphere of college? I think that alone would cause the villains to leave it alone.

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Also, many heroes don't need the school to tell them how to fight--but they need it to learn to write like an adult, do math that has letters in the formula, to learn to appreciate a poem or song, to marvel at the complexity of biology, to discover a love of stargazing...

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I think you get the idea. SU doesn't need to be armed.

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Ok, so I asked in chat and was told that the concern with playing gods was that they would be too powerful. Is there any reason that we can't say that while in this "realm" their powers are muted somewhat, thus giving an in-game explanation on why they are no more powerful than your average super? I'm not concerned with having cosmic power here, it's the themeatic aspects of playing a god that interest me. In the Avengers Loki wasn't any more powerful than the supers he faced (other than the fact that he apparently survived a thrashing by the Hulk which would have killed most mortals). The only real god-like power I was thinking of was having him be immortal. I haven't even thought of other powers yet, but I don't have a problem with him being at the same power level as everyone else, in fact I don't want him to be super powerful, that wouldn't be much fun in a setting like this.

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Ok, after checking back through this thread the only mentions are specifically that you can play a god, so if that has changed, then it must have been a chat only thing that hasn't made it to this thread. I'd definitely put my voice in for allowing them, unless there was some good reason for not.

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I'm going to assume I misremembered or misread. I have a good reason for advocating that we disallow it: because a god shouldn't be a 150 PP, 10 PL being. They're gods/esses. What kind of god can be taken out by Joe Hero who goes to SU and works for Dahlia? If you want to build your PC into a god, go for it. But they shouldn't be a starting PC.

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Also, if you emulate real-world gods/esses, you run the risk of offense to a fellow player who actually believes in those gods. I'm sure that I'll be told to lighten up, it's just a game, but seriously. I'm going to be pissed if someone tries to appropriate my religion for their gaming. I don't know if Jess feels the same, but she'd be another source of potential offense.

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(In case you're wondering why I like Avengers - simply, the Asgardians were extra-dimensional beings. It's a narrow line to walk, and for the record, so long as it is clear OOC that your PC is just a powerful extra-dimensional being who made a name for him/herself in human history, I'd be fine with that. I don't want to stifle people, but if someone does something frankly insulting while RPing a RL god/ess, it becomes rude and disrespectful to the people of that religion.)

And there is a big difference between playing a RL god and playing the child of a god. The lore about the gods if filled with their dalliances with mortals, so go for it.

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I think we do have to consider the opening post...

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"The game will be a generic PL10, 150PP game. Aside from that, anything goes. You can be an alien, a God, a regular guy bitten by a radioactive God who becomes an alien, a super soldier, a normal person like batman with no super powers, just gadgetry."

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So you could be a PL 10 God on the skids. Or the child of one.

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I have to amend my opinion though to more line up with Dawn. Gods are powerful entities, no matter how you slice them. I could buy someone being granted their power by a god, but not being one themselves.

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Clearly, if we have people playing gods, we then have to decide what a 'god' is. Aliens with superpowers a la' Thor? Or something more?

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And if it's more (or not) we then would have to decide what that means for the metaphysics of the world.

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Or, if we don't want to get that deep, then we can just say 'no gods.' :)

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I'm good either way.

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(In case you're wondering why I like Avengers - simply, the Asgardians were extra-dimensional beings. It's a narrow line to walk, and for the record, so long as it is clear OOC that your PC is just a powerful extra-dimensional being who made a name for him/herself in human history, I'd be fine with that.

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This is fine by me. I wasn't planning on playing an actual named god from history, or if I did it would have been someone very obscure and unlikely to offend. I have the Marvel asgardian thor/loki model in mind, an extra-dimensional being that has been worshiped on Earth in the past as a god. The only real god-like power I had in mind was him being immortal (or nearly). Beyond that I haven't even considered powers.

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Same with the Marvel gods, only instead of being from other planets, they are from other dimensions. Either way they could be "gods" in that the people of earth who encountered them in the past, worshiped them as gods. Anyone in the pre-industrial (or perhaps pre-Christian) age who encountered Superman, or the Flash, or Colussus from the X-men would have considered them gods.

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In the simplest terms, a 'god' is something that's worshipped. Anyone, or thing, can claim to be one if they can convince people to worship them.

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The question for us is...are all 'gods' just other things that claim the title? Or is there really a separate classification of being that can claim that title legitimately in a world filled with wonderous and terrible powers?

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I think "legitimate" is a very grey area. In the Marvel universe Thor/Loki/Hercules, etc are extra dimensional advanced(or simply powerful) beings who were once or still are worshiped on Earth. What makes them gods? Because they were worshiped.

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In Stargate, it was aliens, and they are considered by those in the know as "false gods" because now they know that it was just through advanced technology that the beings once known as gods convinced people to worship them. For hundreds of thousands of people in Earth's history, those beings were considered actual gods.

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It's really a matter of perception. Plus, in the past people had a very different view of gods and what one was. Zeus and the Olympians were a freakin soap-opera, he put it in anything that moved, and had half a dozen demi-god children running around. I mean seriously... he got it on with Leda while shaped-shifted into a swan.

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I plan for this iteration of Ein to be the son of Uller, Norse god of hunting, archery and ice. People these days might call Uller a trans-dimensional alien with weird powers, but he is the same Uller as was once worshipped as a god of the aforementioned purviews. Modern post-Industrial age thinkers might pooh-pooh the idea of gods, but Ein's powers aren't the result of a mutation, 'alien physiology' or some psychic ability. He calls the cold, and it comes. It's divine power, not advanced science. He's not immortal - yet. He's only a demigod. He needs worshippers first. :D

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I apologise to any practicioners of Asatru whom I may offend with this character idea. Offense is not the objective, but I'm not watering the medicine. I will be adhering closely to the Norse ethos and religious idiom, and I'm not being a Marvel Asgardian either.

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I think "legitimate" is a very grey area. In the Marvel universe Thor/Loki/Hercules, etc are extra dimensional advanced(or simply powerful) beings who were once or still are worshiped on Earth. What makes them gods? Because they were worshiped.

In Stargate, it was aliens, and they are considered by those in the know as "false gods" because now they know that it was just through advanced technology that the beings once known as gods convinced people to worship them. For hundreds of thousands of people in Earth's history, those beings were considered actual gods.

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By that logic, it means that Jim Jones or any other cult leader is a god, and I'm not comfortable with that, OOC. If "worshipping" is the only requirement, I think we're watering down entire idea of a god. Also! I know of at least one RL religion where the gods aren't worshiped - the gods are revered as allies and friends of humanity.

It's really a matter of perception. Plus, in the past people had a very different view of gods and what one was. Zeus and the Olympians were a freakin soap-opera, he put it in anything that moved, and had half a dozen demi-god children running around. I mean seriously... he got it on with Leda while shaped-shifted into a swan.

It shouldn't be a matter of perception. We should have concrete guidelines for it. OOC, the PC is: powerful god-like being, alien who seems godlike or god/ess. Which brings me to:

I plan for this iteration of Ein to be the son of Uller, Norse god of hunting, archery and ice. People these days might call Uller a trans-dimensional alien with weird powers, but he is the same Uller as was once worshipped as a god of the aforementioned purviews. Modern post-Industrial age thinkers might pooh-pooh the idea of gods, but Ein's powers aren't the result of a mutation, 'alien physiology' or some psychic ability. He calls the cold, and it comes. It's divine power, not advanced science. He's not immortal - yet. He's only a demigod. He needs worshippers first. :D

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I apologise to any practicioners of Asatru whom I may offend with this character idea. Offense is not the objective, but I'm not watering the medicine. I will be adhering closely to the Norse ethos and religious idiom, and I'm not being a Marvel Asgardian either.

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As I said, I have no issue with the half-human prodigy of real gods. It's the RPing and usurping of real gods that are revered by someone in the world. That's bound to cause offense when you have, as an example, Zeus falling for a mortal girl, declaring undying love and then not fucking anything that he can catch. It's utterly out of character, but the player wants to do it, so it's what happens. Meanwhile, the Dodectheists are insulted. If you're a Christian, do you want to watch a guy RP Jesus, treat him as a super hero and have him fall in love with a man and marry him? Probably not.

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There are just things you don't screw with directly. I'm pretty cool about skirting the gods and their provinces (I play Scion, as an example) but out-right theft of their very person is a line that should be left alone.

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Nove Vida provides combat training, as one place people can go other than sticking a Danger Room in the Super-U. The training Nova Vida provides focuses on restraining and capturing opponents instead of using lethal force, when that is an option, but it's still full-on combat training.

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As I mentioned before, Nova Vida is intended to be like a "white hat" version of DeVires.

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Gods and gods. What's the difference?

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A God (capital 'G'), is a divine and magical being that is brought into existence through people's faith and or belief. They can be as grand and as powerful as PLX (meaning you can't play one) Gods like Odin, Thor, Loki or Zeus. I could go on, with Hades, Hera, yadda, yadda... list goes on. You can't play Gods that powerful because those guys have had the past 4,000 to 7,000 years to become insanely powerful. YOU are going to be playing something far less impressive. The child of one of these super powerful Gods (and no, you can't have them on speed dial) who has come of age and decides to prove himself in the modern world. Or you may play a spirit or a kami who is the personification of an idea or an element. A being given life by people's hope, love, desire for justice or vengeance. Spirits (not the undead kind) are Gods too, by definition.

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Consider a being, maybe a spirit of nature who is given a physical form. Naive and clueless about the modern the world it finds itself in, it struggles to find friends and be accepted. Like Starfire from DC when she first arrived on Earth. Teen Titan Starfire was one of the only reasons I watched that show, she was hilarious. If you are a transdimentional being (someone from another dimension) who was neither brought into existence magically by the belief of people and their prayers or a spiritual entity that personifies a primordial element or concept brought into existence by people's belief... then you are not a God, you're an alien. The Marvel Asgardians are not Gods, they are aliens who were once worshipped as gods.

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A god (lowercase) is any being who is worshiped as a figure that people believe meets one of the above criteria. Vis is a god (lowercase). His people worship him because they believe he is omnipotent but it was not created out of their belief and nor do their prayers or belief make it any stronger. Vis (whatever he is or was) is alien in nature and while insanely powerful and possibly able to rival a God (capital 'G') in power it is still just an alien orb of indiscernible energy.

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This explanation is not open to interpretation. Frankly I don't care what anyone thinks the definition of a God is. I have, for the purposes of this gaming world, clearly defined the difference for you between a God and a god.

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Since Ein was the first player to choose a God character and he has clearly stated that his character, and his characters' father, are of the God (capital 'G') variety, the Norse pantheon will be Gods in the game world and Asgard will be a magical place that people might see one day. He called it, he made, he owns it.

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Dave, I love that explanation. It fits with what I was struggling to express yesterday.

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I just had another PC idea based on that post alone. This is the third idea for this game. At least I won't be casting about for ideas!

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Hmm! I have a question for y'all regarding the appropriateness of a concept.

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I wanna try an idea that's shown up in a few games that I never got to really play with due to game stoppage...the whole 'Leverage' style superthief, who's activities are illegal, but perhaps not entirely immoral. She goes after people and corporations who's excesses and unethical behavior is shielded by the laws they, and people like them, had a hand in making.

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So technically a 'villain,' and certainly branded that way in the press. Is that too grey? I do notice the heroic stipulation in the founding document. :)

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Hmm! I have a question for y'all regarding the appropriateness of a concept.

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I wanna try an idea that's shown up in a few games that I never got to really play with due to game stoppage...the whole 'Leverage' style superthief, who's activities are illegal, but perhaps not entirely immoral. She goes after people and corporations who's excesses and unethical behavior is shielded by the laws they, and people like them, had a hand in making.

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So technically a 'villain,' and certainly branded that way in the press. Is that too grey? I do notice the heroic stipulation in the founding document. :)

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Honestly, she sounds like a perfect anti-hero - someone who does illegal things that can be seen as ethical. Leverage is based on this concept, and they are treated as heroes by the narrative, despite the numerous illegal actions they've committed. This is merely my opinion but I feel that she's a fine character concept.

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That's what I was hoping for.

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And I can't claim there's nothing questionable about it. She makes a good living off of her activities too. :)

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I like the idea of that underlying hypocrisy...is stealing from thieves okay?...being something that the character has to grapple with.

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I like the idea, actually.

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It reminds me of the law of the wild. The common thief preys on the unsuspecting civilian. You... you're a better class of thief that goes after other thieves. You are higher on the food chain.

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Just be ready for the notoriety that will come in the more shadowy communities of your city.

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Here is my current concept: a child of Faux!Batman and a pheromone villainess. She lives in NYC and is its unofficial city defender, which annoys the "official" city defender to no end (I may make him an asshole, just a fair warning, unless a PC wants this spot). So I call dibs on NYC and it's write up on the changes I'm making will probably pop up over the weekend for everyone to read and trash. ;) Consider that city pissed upon. :P

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I have two others and I'll give people a chance to do some feedback. The other idea is a monstrous creature that really is a good-hearted being. Think Vincent from the 1980's Beauty and the Beast TV show (she will not have cat features like Vincent--right now I'm thinking snakes). The other one would require some collaboration with Ein; I'm thinking of the daughter of a jotan (not Loki) who is amoral but will be a hero for Reasons (the reasons will be worked out in time).

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All three of these concepts are meant to explore being a good person when the odds are stacked against you. Serene hides herself so her mother's legacy won't taint her own efforts in life, who fears becoming her mother. Monstrous wants to be loved but is a nightmarish creature--in a world where beauty =good in most minds, how do you be seen as an angel with the face of a demon? Jael (yes, I'd be using that sociopath's account) would have reasons to be good (reasons I'll work out as I solidify the background perhaps a fae put a gaes on her or some such) will deal with themes of being a good person when good goes against your very nature. How do you learn to deal with the selfish impulses that drive us all when you don't empathize with people? And are you really a hero if you're helping people so as not to trigger a curse against you?

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Those are the themes I'd be looking at exploring with my PCs. :) Apparently, I have heroism on the brain right now.

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Jael sounds really good to me. She reminds me a lot of A Clockwork Orange, where the world's worst human being ever is FORCED to behave via horrific conditioning techniques and brainwashing. It really delves into that idea of free will versus public good...and the question of change that is internally arrived at and chosen...and change that is imposed from without.

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One of the things about human nature that is most disturbing is that our identities are malleable. If you act like something long enough, you can become that thing. Is using that, even to make a bad person good, right or wrong?

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Good stuff!

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My thief would probably also be based in New York, as it's the stomping grounds of the world's biggest robber-barons. :)

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Carver, If you decide to go with the daughter-of-a-Jotun idea, I know Ein and I have already chatted about our PCs, and Fox seems to be leaning in a Norse direction as well. Maybe we could all collaborate and see if any interesting story hooks crop up. :)

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