Open World M&M 3e

[Dave ST]

The Proposition: An Open World (OW) Mutants and Masterminds 3e gaming forum where all Story Tellers and writers on RPG Post can assemble for collaborative storytelling. Any Storyteller who wished to start an adventure (not a game world) may do so simply by asking for interest and assembling a number of heroes (players) to work through that adventure.

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The forum will have a structure similar to WoD:A, with three moderators that oversee the game world to make sure things do not get out of hand or that characters remain balanced.

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What if the ST becomes unavailable?

Then another Story Teller jumps into the adventure and takes over until 1) the original Story Teller returns or 2) the adventure is completed.

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This allows us to constantly keep things in motion without weeks of delay a sort of spontaneous method of story telling.

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I don’t have notes, or concepts of what the other ST was trying to accomplish.

Make do. I’m not sure where it’s written that plots have to be super secret affairs where no one ever can no what’s going on. C’mon, we all sit down to movies now-a-days and know the needing before it starts. We’re there for the ride. This should be no different.

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Read the fiction, PM the original ST, make some effort to understand the story a bit, then just go from there. We, as STs should be supporting one another. If the guy was using giant robots, cool, use some more giant robots, set up a centralized core for the AI to be broadcasting from, etc. Don’t take it from giant robots to suddenly an alien invasion from another dimension simply because you don’t like giant robots.

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You’re asking people to put their own ego aside and work together… on the internet.

I know, and I’ve given people way too much credit in the past. I hope this proves differently.

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The Series (Pg 212, M&M 3e Hero):

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Scale:

Global – At the start I’d prefer it be global and, over time as more concepts and character progression continues broaden the game into any direction we see fit, perhaps universal or even muliversal.

Setting:

Modern – This is iffy. A modern setting is good, but lets face it the entire array of super tech you guys can have as Supers is obviously futuristic. The default setting is Modern.

Style:

Greyscale – The essence of both light and dark brought together. This is because different STs do it different ways and this is the easiest way to cater to both aspects. I will say this though: while your character doesn’t necessarily have to be ‘good’, they can’t be a villain. At the core, unless you are playing a villain, your PC must be heroic.

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The Characters:

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All characters must be Heroic. Basically that means you can not play a villain, but your PC is not required to be ‘good’. Sometimes heroes have to do the wrong things for the right reasons, and that’s fine, but a PC who is constantly committing acts of villainy will be treated as such.

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The game will be a generic PL10, 150PP game. Aside from that, anything goes. You can be an alien, a God, a regular guy bitten by a radioactive God who becomes an alien, a super soldier, a normal person like batman with no super powers, just gadgetry.

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What are you using for guidelines?

Green Ronin. Simply put, I’m looking at all the material they’ve made for M&M 3e, specifically the DC material and the pre-generated templates. Your PC should fit, within reason, into those guidelines.

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You hate Attractive and I feel you’ll be unfair.

I’ve reviewed all the material and I know that players love their pretty PCs. Using the benchmarks provided by the source material all I ask is decent explanations as to why you feel your PC is so pretty.

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Black Canary (Pre 2, does not have Attractive)

Wonder Woman (Pre 6, Attractive 1)

Zatana (Pre 4, Attractive 1)

Catwoman (Pre 4, Attractive 1)

Cheetah (Pre 3, does not have Attractive)

Circe (Pre 4, Attractive 1)

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Those are the highlights of the DC characters and all of them are drawn with the same lips, hips and tits. Granted you will not be making DC characters and this isn’t the DC universe, but they make for a great way to judge and assess how much is too much when it comes to players abusing the rules or playing a numbers game.

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If you have a great reason why your PC is seven or ten times more attractive than a God… have at it. If you can’t or your reason is just an excuse, then please, go in a different direction.

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It’s hard to make an M&M 3e character.

I know. I’m not good at it either. Use one of the pre-generated characters in the book. That’s why they’re there.

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What about Overlap?

What about it? Unless a concept is practically identical, there’s not reason to worry about it. Players should compliment each other in the field but there are more than one Armored Suit out there and more than one Paragon and more than one Powerhouse.

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This is the beginning. Begin the discussion…

[Sailor OOC]

So, the world, is it a gray-scale world where most of the events of the past in RL have happened, just with supers as part of the overall pace of events? What can we expect to have changed (nothing at all is acceptable as a response)? Can't build a future without knowing the past.

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Otherwise, color me interested.

[Dave ST]

That's for us to decide, this is a discussion thread.

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I was thinking this:

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ANSWERING THE CALL
Power Level: 10–12 • Scale: Global
Setting: Modern • Style: Grayscale
The local big-league super-team has disbanded; they might even be missing and presumed dead after another titanic battle to save the city. But the city needs its heroes, so it’s up to a new group of heroes to take up the mantle and the responsibility to defend the city from threats too great for any one of them to handle. Rebuilding the team is no small task, nor is winning the trust of the city, and you can bet the old team’s foes will waste no time in taking advantage of the situation. Do your heroes have what it takes to create a team of their own? What happens if they do and the previous team returns?

[Sailor OOC]

That is a good start.

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So we gotta think now of somewhere to start. It's a big world, and being super while making it feel smaller still doesn't change the fact you need a good place to start. So, do we plan on having one starting point, or different teams in different areas?

[Jordan]

I am interested Rev and I am more than happy to be a moderator. I have some thoughts about this that I will work up in word and post when I get a chance

[Joani]

I'm tempted to join this.

[Justin OOC]

sign me up...

[Sailor OOC]

Oh, and I am interested, I just wanna see the rules, boundaries, and end zones on this.

[SalmonMax]

Interested, of course.

[Dave ST]

Thanks Jordan. I'm waiting to hear from some others who have more to say than 'sign me up'. This is a discussion thread, so discuss something pertaining to the game. Questions? Concerns? Issues?

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If all you wanna do is say "I'm in" then just wait til we're ready for character submissions.

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And for Christ's sake, pick a damn avatar.

[The Story Guide]

I would be up for STing and playing in this, just to see if the experiment works.

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I would suggest that the setting be semi-futuristic, like 50 years or something, and give some event that either caused supers/supernatural creatures to come into existence or to have brought a significant portion of them out of the shadows and into the day to day life. This gives some wiggle-room on world events and on what kind of technology is available.

[Sailor OOC]

Game Issue #1: Technology: What should be considered is how much of an influence the smarter supers have had on the setting. Who are the movers and shakers in the setting?

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Game Issue #2: Politics: Supers are a factor in global affairs, as such what have supers done up to now that have left a mark (if any) on the world?

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Game Issue #3: House Rules: This is a OOC consideration, but what is allowable, what isn't, and what operates or is paid for differently?

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These are three things I thought should be asked. Any other bases we should cover?

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On Mala's idea: That makes some sense, as we can have a event like... tomorrow, then make up our own history of events up to the moment the game starts.

[Jordan]

First I think we should think about what ares of the rules we want to limit or expand. for example I know a lot of people have issues with Jack of all Trades and in most if not all of the M&M games here it gets banned. should we ban it here too?

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Conversely, I particularly like changing the skill points to 3 per 1 PP.

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What about Pre & Post-cognition, Dimension and Time Travel?

[Gabe OOC]

I'll also step forward as a moderator, and a player. Gimme a bit to put my thought into the mix. I have somewhere to go.

[Joani]

If I decide to join I'd like to play Suprema, just fyi.

[Sailor OOC]

First I think we should think about what ares of the rules we want to limit or expand. for example I know a lot of people have issues with Jack of all Trades and in most if not all of the M&M games here it gets banned. should we ban it here too?

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Conversely, I particularly like changing the skill points to 3 per 1 PP.

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What about Pre & Post-cognition, Dimension and Time Travel?

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Jack of All Trades: My solution was to have it where once you've used a skill enough with JoAT, you are forced to put a rank into that skill. Also not have it apply to Expertise skills (As an Expertiese is just as much experience as skill, and which are covered just fine with Eidetic Memory) or combat skills (as they need training that is pretty exclusive.)

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The skill rank thing? I'm a fan too.

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As for the Cognitions, my solution is to make them ranked, with each rank meaning you can see forward/backward further out on the time measurement chart, and cutting the cost by half.

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Dimension Travel, I think that is more of a flavor issue... if there are other dimensions and universes it might make sense, but in a single-universe game probably not.

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Everyone knows my opinion about Time Travel. All my NOPES!

[Jordan]

Personally I am hesitant on making sweeping changes to the world, for several reasons. Largly. it's a lot of work and then forces everyone to have to remember every single change. Look at Aberrant for example. How many of us actually payed attention to the technology advancements that were part of the background fluff? How often did we see police and paramedics using their flying cars? how often did we remember that CDs and DVDs had fallen by the wayside in favor of "data chips."I'd rather say that any advancements to the game world's tech level come in game from the stories we create.

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Same with politics: super heroes are too busy beating up bad guys to run for office and whatnot. Please remember this is a super heroes game. I'd rather not try to recreate elements of Aberrant here.

[Jordan]

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Jack of All Trades: My solution was to have it where once you've used a skill enough with JoAT, you are forced to put a rank into that skill. Also not have it apply to Expertise skills (As an Expertiese is just as much experience as skill, and which are covered just fine with Eidetic Memory) or combat skills (as they need training that is pretty exclusive.)

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No offense but why make it so convoluted. Either we allow it or ban it. Telling people how they HAVE to spend their PP defeats the spirit of the game IMHO.

[The Story Guide]

I think JoAT should be something that is well-supported by the character concept, ditto Eidetic Memory, not "just because it's cheap on the points". Ditto arrays, especially dynamic arrays, as these are the most easily abused sections of the rules in my opinion.

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Also, I rarely see the descriptor requirements enforced for powers. I would like to see that, as that is part of how the generic powers of M&M are given flavor and definite "soft-side" boundaries. If you've got Create and your a bio-focused character, your Create should have the Biological and/or Plant discriptors, limiting the objects you can create to those composed of organic material, for example.

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Also, Immortal requires you have at least one way of dying permanently, something I've seen overlooked pretty much every time someone has taken the power.

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One the Cognitions. They're a major pain in the ass on the ST side of things, Pre-Cognition especially. Personally, I'd only want to allow it in the "most like possible future if no one deviates significantly from their normal behavior patterns" sort of thing, otherwise you're locked in to whatever the hell you pulled out of your ass when a PC used the power. Post-Cog just makes pretty much any storyline involving a mystery insta-solved. Not very fun either.

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Time Travel I'm fine with as long as it's a variation of Dimensional Travel in that you cannot change the present of the game. When you "time travel" you move to another dimension that is then experiencing the timeperiod you wanted to move to. Otherwise you end up with the same crappy snarl that PreCog causes, with paradoxes on top of it. Dimensional travel...eh, I see nothing inherently wrong with it, though if the ST doesn't have storyline for you in your other dimension you're just gonna get bored.

[Sailor OOC]

Mala: If I may suggest, at least with Post-Cognition, that not only does it require a focus, but it can only tell you a fragment of events. It could even be treated as a cinematic level of deduction. While not solving a crime right at that moment, you'll have an idea on where to start looking quite fast.

[Joani]

Hmm, maybe Suprema isn't the most compatible choice - I could convert Jillian into MM3... I like that idea. Keep talking about rules and setting.

[Dave ST]

I would be up for STing and playing in this, just to see if the experiment works.

Awesome. Thanks.

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I would suggest that the setting be semi-futuristic, like 50 years or something, and give some event that either caused supers/supernatural creatures to come into existence or to have brought a significant portion of them out of the shadows and into the day to day life. This gives some wiggle-room on world events and on what kind of technology is available.

Okay, this works as a viable suggestion, moving time forward a bit.

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Thoughts?

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Re:Supers/Supernaturals

Okay, I was considering the easy route that they were always sort of around in one way or another. Since, I dunno... late 1800's early 1900's events or strange things just seemed to evolve people to greater abilities or aliens shot their little pods with their kids them at the planet, dimensional barriers seemed to weaken, etcetera. I think your idea is worth extrapolating on, especially since Gods are a viable option for PCs.

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First I think we should think about what ares of the rules we want to limit or expand. for example I know a lot of people have issues with Jack of all Trades and in most if not all of the M&M games here it gets banned. should we ban it here too? ,,

Conversely, I particularly like changing the skill points to 3 per 1 PP.

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What about Pre & Post-cognition, Dimension and Time Travel?

Jack-of-All Trades is not that bad. Keep in mind some of the difficulties can far exceed what the defaulted attribute is capable of. The problem isn't JOAT, it's the PC justifying why he has JOAT to begin with. Mostly what we end up with every invetor PC taking it because they think it 'makes sense' when in reality, it doesn't. That's why we go over the PCs and assist with keeping them balanced. MAxxing out the ATTs you want JOAT to apply to is dickery and playing the numbers game. If you're that damn good or smart at something, buy the skills to back it up.

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Example: Bastion should not have JOAT, it doesn't' make sense for him to. Now, Watch Woman... yeah, I could see it, she's had to have her hand in a lot of learning to get where she is.

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All of the cognitions are mainly plot device powers. The ST has the say of whether or not it should/could apply. Besides, the character needs to have the background to back it up. Dimensional and Time Travel but there needs to be rules for Time Travel... like altering things can cause serious problems... like the PC seeing to it they never existed in the first place. It's okay to have, but if you wanna be a Jackenape with it, you'll be punished... severely. Dimensional travel isn't too bad, but since the game will start with other dimensions not a possibility, it should be something that can be purchased when they are. Which means if you're from another dimension... you can't go home (or communicate) until other dimensions become avail.

[Sailor OOC]

Well, my personal favorite of Time Travel paradox resolutions is that you cannot change your own timeline. You go back in time and shoot your mom before you were born, you come back and she still makes you apple pie. But in another timeline you were never born, or you are, but to a different mother, etc...

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Either that or we create some regulative "Council of Time" that oversees the proper flow of the time-stream and intervenes when there is a potential issue as a IC solution.

[Jordan]

Or we just don't be dicks about it. Which is the essence of what Rev is saying

[Sailor OOC]

Well... I think our track record speaks for itself, I guess... Rev has a point.

[Joani]

I'm going to re-imagine Jill from DR for this. Will take a few days, though.

[Eingar]

Might come in with a re-worked Ein for this, though M&M annoys me.

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I think I'll give him cold-based powers rather than weather control, though. He'll be the son of Uller, god of ice, frost and hunting.

[Dawn OOC]

I'm in, probably just to play, at least to start. I'm kinda burnt out on the idea of herding yet another group of cats.

[Sailor OOC]

Oi, Dawn... Idris has been a polite, obedient kitty.

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Also this isn't the time to discuss characters guys. Let's build the universe first.

[jameson (ST)]

Firstly, I know I haven't een around much, nor terribly supportive of late, but, if you want it, my expertise with the system is available if you like.

Conversely, I particularly like changing the skill points to 3 per 1 PP.

Persuant to the above I want to offer the following: Don't do this. You will end up throwing off the balance of the game more than you might expect or realize.

[Charlotte]

27 posts in the time it took to get to the theatre. Y'all are machines.

Interested of course. Especially if Serene is gonna be there. :evil:

An idea I had that I may flesh out after the movie is "Superhero University." We all recently either had our origins or decided to be superheroes or both. We're here to learn how to master our powers, goof off, have fun, and maybe - if the need is there - go save the world. Imagine the drama, self-discovery and idealism of college and university writ large.

Thoughts?

[Eingar]

On the vein of coming up with something useful to add....

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1: I'd be willing to guest-ST.

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2: I think hasty overhauls of the rules are a bad idea. Especially when you're telling people what they can and can't take within the PL and PP limits already set.

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3: Timeline-wise, I'd prefer contemporary, with some advanced tech naturally. I like the 'gradual bleed of awareness' people were talking about in chat, with the world gradually waking up to the increasing numbers of posthumans, and said supers coming from a wide variety of sources.

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Also: ARRR.

[Krul]

This looks like something I want in on.. what character I'd play, I'm not sure.. but I'd like to make a few suggestions, to keep us from repeating some of the issues in the latest M&M team?

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• First, all heroes should be based on a template from the books, you can add your own take on them, but it should be too far off.
• Second, no dynamic arrays, regular arrays, fine.. dynamic arrays no
• If the heroes form a team, can I suggest the Justice League template.. as in, the team votes to add someone or not.. players can always create loners, but teams should be team after.

[Sailor OOC]

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This looks like something I want in on.. what character I'd play, I'm not sure.. but I'd like to make a few suggestions, to keep us from repeating some of the issues in the latest M&M team?

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• First, all heroes should be based on a template from the books, you can add your own take on them, but it should be too far off.
• Second, no dynamic arrays, regular arrays, fine.. dynamic arrays no
• If the heroes form a team, can I suggest the Justice League template.. as in, the team votes to add someone or not.. players can always create loners, but teams should be team after.

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1: No... as this would require some extreme oversight to make sure a character rode close to the pre-mades in the book. This is unnecessary.

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2: Dynamic arrays are fine, if there is reasonible oversight and a solid theme during the creation process.

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3: That makes sense.

[The Story Guide]

1) No. That just sucks and is basically telling people they can't make their own characters.

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2) Dynamic arrays are fine, with actual oversight and STs willing to say, "No, that's fucking broken and makes no sense."

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3) Let that actually build from what the players want instead of trying to dictate from the top down.

[Krul]

Fair enough.

[Dave ST]

Firstly, I know I haven't een around much, nor terribly supportive of late, but, if you want it, my expertise with the system is available if you like.

Thanks, I'd certainly appreciate this, since this system is new to me. I can use all the help I can get.

[Sailor OOC]

So, are we going with Contemporary Timeline, +25 years, or +50 years?

[SalmonMax]

No need to project it far into the future. The presence of supers in the world can sufficiently distort the upper-end of technology to suit our purposes. That also puts it into rareified areas that don't utterly transform society as easily, which is good for the purpose of making it a 'contemporary setting with isolated high tech' and not 'cyberpunk with powers' or 'space opera.'

[Sailor OOC]

I personally would like to see a "grainy" contemporary. Where the event that created supers is either currently happening or happened within a year of the start. Same with the unlocking of the supernatural or the lifting of any space treaties that declared earth not to be interfered with or contacted.