Mutants & Masterminds: The Magisterium - Magisterium OOC

[Dawn OOC]

Jaunt should be ready to go. Any other paperwork needs filling out?

We have the prelude to get through, then I got to figure out how he's coming into the game. We'll talk next time you're in chat, Jaunt.

[jameson (ST)]

Fenny is Fatigued... until next round. Love that Healing factor.

Hey English Guy, FYI, Regeneration doesn't allow you to heal from fatigue any faster than normal, likewise it will not help you recover from Affliction conditions, or other effects that are not Damage.

Basically it can only heal, -1 damage checks (injuries), Dazed, Staggered, and Incapacitated from Damaging attacks only.

[Grim]

What about an Immunity to Fatigue?

[jameson (ST)]

Nope!

"You are immune to certain effects, automatically succeeding on any resistance check against them."

Since there is no resistance check when using EE it bypasses that completely and applies Fatigue directly. Fatigue Economy is one of the balancing factors for Extra Effort.

[Tengri]

Dawn, in Jailbreak it sounds as though Animal is attacking Tengri, but I don't seen any rolls being required of him (such as a Toughness check), which is leaving me a little confused. What is the situation there?

[Jaunt]

So, what's the point in having Immunity 5 'Fatigue Effects' if you're not immune to fatigue or the effects that cause fatigue?

[Seeker]

As I understand it, you are immune to all effects that cause the fatigue/exhaustion conditions except for the fatigue caused by extra effort. So Afflictions can't cause you to be fatigued basically.

Extra Effort represents pushing past your boundaries so even characters immune to normal fatigue are "fatigued" when using extra effort.

[SalmonMax]

Yar. Otherwise you'd be getting a very cheap way to get infinite extra actions, or extra powers, or any of the other things Extra Effort can provide.

[jameson (ST)]

Jordan and Max are correct. Note the language in the Immunity quote I cited, you automatically succeed on resistance rolls. In the case of Extra Effort there is no roll to resist the fatigue, it just happens.

Immunity to fatigue is great for going without sleep, running without getting tired, and avoiding other people's afflictions from making you fatigued and unable to use Extra Effort.

[Dawn OOC]

Dawn, in Jailbreak it sounds as though Animal is attacking Tengri, but I don't seen any rolls being required of him (such as a Toughness check), which is leaving me a little confused. What is the situation there?

That was an announcement of his intent - a rushing attack. It was also to set up the next round and was in part a thematic description. I hope that clarifies.

[Tengri]

Sorry, I'm probably just being slow: Animal's initiative is higher than Tengri's, so shouldn't any attacks and/or rolls resulting in said attacks be handled before Tengri takes any actions?

[Rebekka Van der Vyse]

Unless I'm missing a few things, I think there are a few issues with Tengri's last post. The enemy still gets to make a resistance roll against the grab effect, Perception range doesn't negate this. Perception range lets the grab attempt (or initial attack due to Fast Grab), but doesn't make the Grab automatic, just as a Perception range Affliction doesn't negate a resistance roll (which is all Grab really is). DC would be 10 + Tengri's Strength, resisted by Strength or Dodge.

Also, I'm not sure why you would assume Throwing him is a Free Action, just because Tengri isn't throwing him to cause damage. You can release someone from a Grab as a Free Action, effectively dropping him (which is also a Free Action), not launch him miles away - or even just dozens of feet away, constrained by the environment, causing to take several Move Actions or more to close in again, with no effort on Tengri's part. This is still a clear benefit and shouldn't be Free.

[z024]

Yeah, this was a point (grab & throw) for Lamia, and we goofed it up in Conquest and the first throw she did in 1.3. Even with Fast Grab or no intent to do damage, throwing is still a separate action from grabbing. You can release as a free action, but the person is still right next to you because literally all you are doing is pulling your arms away from them.

Fast Grab just lets you use an attack action as the roll for a grab and the grab itself being a free action, instead of its own standard action. Otherwise, as was seen with Lamia, grab/throw is one of the most powerful combinations in the game, especially if you can grab one opponent and throw them at another.

This took Dawn and I reading through the book several times to figure it out, as the M&M 3ed book is annoyingly vague in several areas.

[Tengri]

You are correct about Animal getting a resistance against Tengri to escape his Grab. My mistake. Dawn, Tengri'll expend Luck to screw with Animal's resistance roll, if necessary.

The recently released Power Profile: Strength Powers contains a sidebar that clarifies the rules for Throwing Things (since the core books do not go into any detail on how to handle such things as throwing another person). Obviously, Dawn can choose to not use the rules presented there, but those rules are not presented as 'optional', but rather as clarifications on existing, core rules.

The relevant section is as follows (pg. 3, PP: Strength Powers): 'Lastly, a strong enough character can throw another

character as a makeshift weapon! If the other character is a willing partner, this is a standard action for the thrower, who makes a ranged attack check to put the thrown character on-target. The thrown character gets to make either a charge or a slam attack using the throwing distance rank as speed rank (Hero’s Handbook, page 194 and 198, respectively), and the thrown character’s initiative moves to directly after the thrower’s.

If the thrown character is not willing (another opponent, for example), then the thrower must first grab the character. If the grab is successful, the attacker can pick up and throw the victim. This occurs as a free action following the grab if indiscriminately hurling the grabbed character away, on the following round as a standard action (using a free action to maintain the hold until then) if throwing the character at another target. Treat a thrown character as an unbalanced, non-aerodynamic throwing weapon, with the throw doing Strength rank damage to the target and the thrown “weapon”!' ((Emphasis mine.))

As I say, Dawn's free to use or disregard these rules as she sees fit, but my current understanding is that we are using "the rules" in this game, and those are, in fact, "the rules".

[z024]

Ah! Well, she doesn't have the PP, but...*shrugs*, I'll ask her when she gets home.

[Tengri]

Yeah, I wasn't sure if she was following the PPs either. So I sent her the quote I pasted above on the very day that the PP in question came out (since I knew that she'd only just recently had to adjudicate the issue with Lamia that you posted about previously, and I knew she'd found it tricky and tedious). She thanked me for sending it, but did not comment otherwise (such as to tell me that she would be using different rules), hence my assumption that we would be using those rules.

[Rebekka Van der Vyse]

As I do not have that Power Profile, I was not aware of that ruling on throwing. However, I hardly find it fair, it lets you deal damage for Free, taking a free action instead of a Standard, which is does while using a Grab. With Fast Grab, this gets even more abusive - you attack, deal damage, attempt to grab him as a Free Action, then thrown him as a Free action to deal Damage yet again.

I fail to see why throwing someone willingly takes a standard action, but throwing someone indiscriminately - which still deals damage - would be a Free Action. But yes, the ruling is up to Carver.

[Rebekka Van der Vyse]

Oh, as a side note, IIRC Tengri's Luck power is an Alternate effect of his Perception Attack Extra. Since he didn't take a Free Action to switch his array, he won't be able to spend Luck to that round. I realize that is a Reaction, but currently, due to the nature of Arrays, he can't use it.

And yes, while I suppose Tengri can take the Free Action to change his array at the end of his turn, remember Arrays,can only be switched once per round. So on the next turn, if he switched back to the Perception attack, he will not be able to switch to Luck again until the following round.

[Tengri]

No, you're correct Rebekka. He wouldn't be able to use Luck in any case (good catch!). The resistance on Animal's part to escape his grab would take place immediately after the grab itself (and for which Tengri used the Perception Enhanced Extra). Meanwhile, I stated that he'd continued to use the Perception Enhanced Extra while attacking the human soldiers. Since, as you say, he cannot change an Array more than once in a round, it is clearly impossible to spend Luck on that round.

So, like I say, good catch!

[jameson (ST)]

Re: Throwing

The Actions involved are the same. The Effect of a Grab is basically a free Affliction based on Strength with Throw is a free close range move object effect based on Strength.

Instead of inflicting defensive penalties to the target with a grab you can throw them (move object). The action for throwing an enemy (which could easily be looked at as the same as a push) is a Standard Action for the Grab/Grapple and a Free Action to throw because, again, you are trading the throw for the impairment. Since Free Actions are not limited per turn and any turn you can perform a Standard Action you will also be able to perform Free Actions this is the same as a Standard Action and nothing more.

When throwing a willing target the action remains a Standard Action and a Free Action (which is the same as a Standard Action and nothing else) with the sole difference being the target's initiative moves and they do not make any kind of resistance check for the grapple and you are not required to make an attack check for the grab.

[SalmonMax]

On a related note, are there rules for Knockback from attacks in 3rd Edition? I haven't been able to find them yet.

[Tengri]

The Gamemaster's Guide presents optional rules for knockback on pgs. 192-193, but they are just optional. M&M 3e doesn't have any default knockback rules like 2e did.

[jameson (ST)]

Knockback is a complication, and/or as a component of attacks based on the Move Object/Throw mechanic are about as close to you get to standard kockback rules.

[SalmonMax]

So to model an attack that hits physically for damage, and also knocks its target back, I have to put on a Move Object component that has a limit like Only Throws then?

That's fine if so, I just wanna be sure I'm doing it right.

[jameson (ST)]

Yes.

Ranged Damage 10 (linked) + Move Object 10 (linked, limited to kocking away) is a valid combo.

Travis' damaging move object essentially creates the same effect.

[Seeker]

Okay, I have so say I am a little irritated with Hot Nights at the moment. Why are my Toughness Save being made for me when I am perfectly capable of rolling them myself?

[Travis Kincaid]

As a point of note:

DCA HH Page 93: Damage Resistance Check

Failure (three degrees): The target is staggered and has a –1 circumstance penalty to further checks against damage. If the target is staggered again (three degrees of failure on a Damage resistance check), apply the fourth degree of effect. The staggered condition remains until the target recovers (see Recovery, following).

(emphasis mine)

Strike would be out for the count before Lamia's attack unless he rerolled against Travis' attack, and unless he re-rolled against both he'd be KOed by round's end.

[Travis Kincaid]

Also ... that was FUCKING AWESOME!!

Really great post Carv.

[Dawn OOC]

Okay, I have so say I am a little irritated with Hot Nights at the moment. Why are my Toughness Save being made for me when I am perfectly capable of rolling them myself?

Because you weren't around when I typing up the post. You knew Fenris had hit you several days ago, so you could have rolled your own Saves at any time and PMed them to me or put them in a spoiler in your post. When I need to resolve the actions in the post to move the game forward, I will roll for the players. I'm not trying to be a douche and had you shown up in chat before the post went up, I would have let you make the rolls yourself.

To everyone: in the future, if a PC hits you or attacks you in the game, feel free to go back and do your Saves. So long as they're c/p in the thread with timestamps/proof of witnesses or links, I'm fine with people rolling for themselves. If you don't want me to roll for you, then I strongly suggest you do this, because I will roll as necessary to complete a post.

[Dawn OOC]

Also ... that was FUCKING AWESOME!!

Really great post Carv.

Thanks, Travis. I always appreciate hearing from my fans.

[Dawn OOC]

As a point of note:

DCA HH Page 93: Damage Resistance Check

(emphasis mine)

Strike would be out for the count before Lamia's attack unless he rerolled against Travis' attack, and unless he re-rolled against both he'd be KOed by round's end.

Thanks for pointing that out. I had a nagging feeling I was forgetting some rule when I posted, but then I usually have that feeling. So the poor little bastard was knocked out and will now likely become your prisoner. Oh, the humanity!

[Seeker]

My appologies for being all bitchy. It's what I get for post 15 minutes after waking up. I was under the impression that we were handling saves from pc attacks the same way we were handling save from npc attcks and thus was waiting to make the saves until my next turn.

So yes, I will be using my hero point to reroll that save. M y plans for the upcoming round require me to to be not dazed or staggered. Also, I was under the impression I got hit twice or was that what the second save in your thread was? Either way, I'm at work on my phone so I will roll when I get home tonight or tomorrow, depending on when work is done.

[Fahrenheit]

Seeker - I got similar confused until I understood how Dawn resolves combat. She allows to HP your save, though which is fair enough for me. Ultimately it actually saves time and I'm considering adopting this kind of combat resolution for Shadowrun, too.

[Dawn OOC]

My appologies for being all bitchy. It's what I get for post 15 minutes after waking up. I was under the impression that we were handling saves from pc attacks the same way we were handling save from npc attcks and thus was waiting to make the saves until my next turn.

Yeah, I should just take a moment to clarify: my posts are meant to be the cumulation of a round. That means that by going back and counting my posts, we know where we are as far as the number of rounds. Three posts from me means three rounds are done and we're working on the fourth. And, if I left your saves unresolved and then had an NPC attack you, you might not be conscious for that attack. I hope that makes sense why I do it that way. I know we're not a table top where a ten-second roll can instantly resolve these issues, but I hope this is a good system for it.

So yes, I will be using my hero point to reroll that save. M y plans for the upcoming round require me to to be not dazed or staggered. Also, I was under the impression I got hit twice or was that what the second save in your thread was? Either way, I'm at work on my phone so I will roll when I get home tonight or tomorrow, depending on when work is done.

The second save was for your second attack. So long as you save for your first and don't have a penalty to your second roll, you should be fine.

[Dawn OOC]

I just got inspired and added this to the World history in brief:

Culture

DEHA has taken steps to control the culture of the modern world. They have had a quiet and insidious impact on all of the entertainment forms, from Radio to comics. Their goal overall is to reinforce the humanistic viewpoint: that humans are inherently good and have five core principles:

1. Human beings, as human, supersede the sum of their parts. They cannot be reduced to components.
   
2. Human beings have their existence in a uniquely human context, as well as in a cosmic ecology.
   
3. Human beings are aware and aware of being aware—i.e., they are conscious. Human consciousness always includes an awareness of oneself in the context of other people.
   
4. Human beings have some choice and, with that, responsibility to care for and defend themselves.
   
5. Human beings are intentional, aim at goals, are aware that they cause future events, and seek meaning, value, and productivity.
   

These concepts shape the idea that humans are superior to other creatures and that they are responsible to care for themselves and other humans against other creatures. This message is pervasive throughout human culture. The following are some examples of this in entertainment:

The Shadow was a popular radio show that migrated over to TV in the 1960’s. Though it has recently fallen out of favor with younger people, older members of humanity love the show still, keeping it thriving on Nickelodeon at Night and other ‘vintage’ television stations. The Shadow’s real name is Kent Allard, a war hero during World War I (later updated to World War II). After the war is over, he decides to wage war on criminals and fakes his own death to become Lamont Cranston, among other identities. The Shadow has no super-human abilities beyond an ability to do hypnosis instantly. Rumors that his powers are psychic in nature are always crushed by the producers of the show.

Marvel Detective Comics (shortened, amusingly, to MDC sometimes) is the leading comic book producer. Their stable of heroes include Batman (a detective and crime-fighter), Hawkman (an archer), Green Lantern (an Earthling who protects the planet from alien invaders with the help of Mother Earth’s Lantern), Spider-Man (a high school genius who built a spider-suit to fight crime with), Captain America (a human with a super-serum), Iron Man (a billionaire playboy philanthropist with a suit), Wonder Woman (a Texas brunette with a mean lasso) and more. The protagonists are always human with machines or their own ingenuity to help them against the villains. Some of the villains are the Hulk (a massive green monster), Thor (a being who believes he’s a god – his primary adversary is the Paladin, a Christian warrior), Superman (a fascist alien with delusions of conquering earth) and so on.

The Twilight Book series follows the exploits of a teen girl who fights vampires and werewolves at night while trying to be a normal girl by day. She has to fit in her training and time with her family. Bella Swan also worries about her grades and which boy to like: the handsome Edward who’s the captain of the football team or Jacob, the boy next door who’s also her best friend.

[jameson (ST)]

Superman (a fascist alien with delusions of conquering earth) and so on.

Carv, have you been reading Superman: Red Son again?

[Jordan]

Just thought I would mention that there are some changes to Dog's character sheet, mostly minor but 1 not so minor in case anyone is checking that stuff out

[Stargaizer]

Well, there's a gadgeteer in the works. Hopefully I'll be completely approved before too long.

Here's the introduction I can give concretely.

Henry Jacobs:

30ish R&D Engineer. Was only recently discovered by DEHA, when his appendix burst and doctors found out that his insides look metalic and mechanical. He can create, transform, and destroy matter, complex or simple. He even has limited control over living matter. Very technologically inclined, somewhat physically active.

I'll post in the roster thread once approved!

Ok, there is another character in the works, may or may not be a gadgeteer.

[SalmonMax]

So...he's like Mary, only with more knowledge?

And machine-guts?

[Dawn OOC]

So...he's like Mary, only with more knowledge?

And machine-guts?

He's going the inventor route. I don't think there will be PC overlap. Otherwise I wouldn't have allowed him.