Aberrant: Infinite Earth - Cosmos Nova OOC

[Sean Cassidy]

Just have a question or a proposal for an extra. I've been trying to design a power or group of powers to design a Tenser's Transformation type of 'spell,' minus the total rage (ie, a temporary buff to Strength, Toughness, and Speed - the spell also makes the wizard a better fighter, but that part of the spell has a lower benefit the better you are at fighting already, so I'm just dropping that part).

I've thought about linking multiple powers together, like Boost-Str, Boost-Sta, Forcefield, and even Hypermovement, but that seems kinda clumsy and abusive, linking each power to three others. Besides, Hypermovement is way too fast for what I was looking for, and I'm not fond of the random result from Boost - the spell gives you a fixed result. I looked at Bodymorph, thinking that would be perfect, but you can't simply add Mega-Atts (and at a 1-1 rate, it's not really effective, costing you the same as buying the Mega-Att normally, but adding a temporary duration), and I would be using the Boost and other powers I had already be using again, though I could buy extra 'hit points' with the Extra Health Levels mod.

Then I started looking at other powers, thinking about just using a different 'spell'. Fixed-result Density Increase would work for Iron Body (not that I was seeing Taeli casting that) and Enlarge could be modeled with Sizemorph (Grow). But when I started looking at Sizemorph, seeing the bonuses to Strength, Stamina, Movement Rate (a modest one, but one nonetheless), and extra Health Levels, I thought, 'Hey! This is perfect for Tenser's Transformation!'... except for the increased size part.

So, I'm wondering, can I add an Extra to Sizemorph (Growth), sort of the inverse of the Full Power Extra for Sizemorph (Shrink), that lets you keep all the bonuses for Growth, but without actually growing larger? Not as efficient or broken as multiple powers linked to each other, but it gets the job done and is simple, with fixed results per dot.

Being big can be either a bonus or a drawback, depending on the circumstances, and the bonus to being hit isn't that bad, only +1 die per dots, so normally only +2 Dice max. Hell, I'm even fine keeping that penalty(sort of berserk, so not defending quite as well).

[Justin OOC]

Okay. since you're proposing this as an extra, I'd say yes here.

All you're doing is raising the level of the power to disconnect the size change aspect of the power. You don't get the associated free enhancements, and you're keeping the to hit penalties.

[z-Coyote-Mad Scientist]

Is there a timeline set up for CN? Just to avoid time paradoxes/loops?

Not off hand, but if Nights is the official start of CN, it was sort of agreed that the RL date of the first official thread was "Day 1" of the campaign's calendar. Any others simply have dates mentioned in their stories.

Mission 0 has dates that are in 2011 (Since they are origin/history stories) and Telluris also has a fiction like this.

There was no timeline set up. I think we were going to play it pretty lose and just handwavium any issues that arose rather than pounding out a timeline.

i miss the post early about the time.

Sorry coyote my fault i replyed to what umiwashi wrote.

i make sure it does not happen again.

I'm not sweating it. I just didn't want fifty back and forths in the time I was at work that I'd then have to try to smooth into a reasonable reply from Maier. Plus, I have answers for you guys that might change or result in new questions.

[SeaEagle]

All I gotta say is... I hope you guys brought catnip... == Naomi going live shortly.

[Novakowski]

made that mistake once at a Cat show.

Baaad memories.

[Guo Zhenglai]

Hey guys, my recently posted build for Guo Zhenglai includes Ability Mastery in two Abilities. Asa pointed out that this hadn't been officially approved for use in CN and that I should ask if it's alright with everyone else, so that's what I'm doing here.

((The text below is more or less copy/pasted from a similar vote taken in the old 200X forums:))

For those of you unfamiliar with the Adventure! line of the Aeonverse:

Originally Posted By: Adventure! pg. 138

"Usually, five dots are the most skill a character can attain in agiven Ability. If your character already has five dots in an Ability, you can use transformation points* [sic] buy an additional sixth dot. This peerless degree of expertise is called Ability mastery; the character is considered an innovator head and shoulders above his peers....

... You may purchase Ability mastery only once for a specific Ability and for a total of no more than three separate Abilities."

*: 'Transformation points' in the quote above is the A! equivalent of nova points.

So that's what Ability mastery is. A few things to note if Ability Mastery were to be incorporated into Cosmos Nova:

1) --The flavor text that talks about how a character with Ability mastery is an "innovator head and shoulders above his peers" is certainly accurate, but only up to a point. With Mega-Attributes coming into play, a character with Mega-Intelligence 1 and Ability mastery in Medicine could certainly consider himself to be one of the most skilled doctors of the past century, but he's still going to be outperformed by his fellow nova doctor with Medicine 4 and Mega-Intelligence 3.

2) --In case it still isn't clear; Ability mastery gives your character a sixth dot in the Ability you've chosen to master. And that's all it gives you! It does not count a 7,8, or 9 as two successes and a 10 as 3 successes. It does not allow you to re-roll any and all 10's on a roll involving a mastered Ability. Basically, it gives you a sixth dot in your ability. It really is that simple.

3) --The quoted text above doesn't make it very clear, but pg. 125 of the Adventure! textbook lays out Experience Point costs for various things and it states clearly that you can, in fact, purchase Ability mastery with xp (and not just with 'Transformation points' as it states above). The costs is 12xp.

So basically, if this addition is incorporated into Cosmos Nova, then future character submissions (or already-existing characters with unspent NPs) could purchase an Ability mastery dot for 1NP per mastered dot, while characters already in play could purchase a sixth dot in a given ability with 12xp (up to the listed limit of 3 mastered Abilities in total). In return, they can now roll 6 dice for that Ability, before bringing Attribute dice and/or bonus dice into play (or 7 or even 8 dice if Specialties are coming into play). Obviously, this doesn't really do much for a character from a strictly mechanical point of view (12xp can buy you as many as two dots in a Mega-Attribute or Level 2 power, while an NP can buy you six regular dots in other Abilities or 5 dots in Backgrounds or 3 dots in Attributes), but it does give your character a certain amount of prestige, style, and extra flair.

So there you go, that's the submission. Thoughts, questions, concerns?

[z006]

I'm cool with this. Costs the same as the first (or only) dot of a background enhancement, and you can only do it for three Abilities. It doesn't seem game-breaking and adds a nice bit of flavor.

My vote is yes.

[Sean Cassidy]

I'm fine with it.

[Naomi Minami]

Since the game itself will have abilities mechanically capped at 6 when Quantum 6 is unlocked, I could see this as a way to have a Ability at 6 before hand.

Since all this provides mechanically is a single die, I think this isn't too scary.

but I think that a limit should be placed on how many you get this mastery on. Either one for each family of abilities (Physical, Social, Mental) or just have it possible where through a character's lifetime they can only have 3 ability masteries.

[z006]

Quantum 6 doesn't usually allow for an ability to go over 5 in Aberrant. Is this going to be a house rule for CN?

The A! rules limit it to 3 abilities total.

[Naomi Minami]

Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Correction: I was remembering wrong.

[Novakowski]

I have no proplem with it.

As i believed it is also in New Flesh Attribute book which is allowed.

[Novakowski]

Naomi i just read the following on your sheet

Merits

2 Lightning Calculator

2 Speed Reading

You also have Mega intelligence which the player guild says automaticaly convert over to Enchancements

so i beleive these merits are redundent.

[Naomi Minami]

Uh, I can have those two since I don't have the enhancements. You don't trade anything.

[Novakowski]

Mathematical Savent is essentially same as lighting calculator( player guide pg 72)

I was wrong about it automatically converting over the player guide says character can not have both.

on your sheet it has this

{Mega Intelligence 5 w/Linguistic Prodigy, MP: Investigative, Eidetic Memory, Enhanced Memory, Mathematical Savant [21 NP] }

unless i miss read it you have Mathematical savant.

i hope this help. i had many good people here help me with mine so i am trying to return the favor.

i like your character a real life cat-girl ( nice picture).

[Naomi Minami]

Oh dear, you're right! I think I'll swap it for something else. Thanks for the catch.

Swapped Mathematical Savant for Taint Resistance.

[z-Coyote-Mad Scientist]

Long, can we get the jump forward in Nights to get us out to INTERNATIONAL WATERS?!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Naomi Minami]

Sucks our new cat friend will miss the hijinks. Oh well, that's Kei's bag.

[Naomi Minami]

If no one has any objections, I am going to make a post in Under, then start my own solo thread to fill her out a bit while I wait for posts.

Addendum: I noticed that I can't really post there until Carver posts moving the thread forward. So I'll start my solo thread shortly.

[Stargaizer]

OK, it appears that at the current time that one game is stretching what I can keep up with. I will have to put Matter Man on hold for a while.

[Kazuo]

To Kevin Cooper/Taehlyri'salatria Duirsar: curiosity has gotten the better of me, and so I must ask!

In the gadget show in quotes below, what is "Combat Sense"?

Ithilhyanda en Duirsar (Quantum 3, Quantum Pool: 21; Cost: 10np)

Sharpness ●●●●● (L1 Claws w/Kinetic Discharge and Armor Piercing; Weaknesses: Only applies to the Moonblade (5pts), Must be activated simultaneously with Combat Sense (3pts), Can only be used in conjunction with Combat Sense (2pts); Strengths: Reduce Level by 2 (1opts))

Ancestors in the Blade ●●●●● (L1 Combat Sense; Weaknesses: Must be activated simultaneously with Claws (3pts), Can only be used in conjunction with Claws (2pts); Strengths: Reduce Level by 1 (5pts))

Sword of Dancing: Empty Force enhancement

Combined with a Gadget (Uses Whipsword as a base, +3 Accuracy [6op], +[3] Damage [9op], Can be used as an instrument - as a type of a flute - by cutting the air [2op], +1 Difficulty to defend against attack made with the blade [3op]

Locked to Taehlyri'salatria

The Moonblade of the Duirsars is more a singular piece of artwork than a weapon, the double-edged blade long and tapering, the crossguard elegant and deceptively strong, the pommel backed by another, shorter blade. Three runes of arcane Elvish are inscribed artfully on each side of the blade. It is fashioned of the clearest glassteel with a faint, everbright sheen to the surface and permeating it - by some angles and light, the blade is nearly invisible, by others, it's as bright as a mirror reflecting sunlight. Infinitesimal perforations line the edges of the blade, making the Moonblade whisper and sing as it passes through the air, and for those experienced with its use, the weapon may be used as sort of versatile flute.

[Mel Grimson]

It's an old custom power Fox made in SGU, which we modded for CN: http://www.rpgpost.com/topic/16570-cosmos-nova-ooc/page__st__60#entry286155

Mel has it too.

[Guo Zhenglai]

Ah, that's what it is. Actually, I wrote that power up (for use with MCoH's version of Guo Zhenglai, as it happens) and Rob's player asked if he could use it for his character in Fox's SGU, submitted it to Fox, and Fox rewrote it a bit (did a good job of it, too).

It would have been nice to know that it was allowed for use in this forum. Where should I go to learn exactly which custom powers and/or house-rules are available for use in play here in CN?

[z006]

I'm leery of saying that devices can have powers with a 5 pt weakness that says "this is only for the device it's on". If that is going to be allowed, then all powers on a device should be automatically one level lower.

For example: Vysarian's Moonblade has Quantum Weapon on it, to represent that in Vysarian's hand it is much more damaging than anyone else trying to use it. He cannot manifest a different weapon just because he's holding the Moonblade, or manifest another sword if he doesn't have his Moonblade on hand. He only has access to QW if he's holding his Moonblade and it only applies to the Moonblade itself.

Part of the point of devices is that the powers are in them, not the nova. So....are we allowing this as a weakness that can be put on device powers?

Edit: I can see the argument for powers that only affect devices (instead of granting full access to the power to the nova with the device) having weakness points, on further consideration. It is limiting the power even further than devices that simply grant access to the full power. Is this worth 5 pts of weakness is my question now as well.

[Naomi Minami]

Z: The compiled rules info is here. Jer, could you post that Combat Sense we approved into that thread? Might be something useful to have a reference to.

Regarding the weakness: I don't think that particular weakness should be allowed for powers in a gadget.

As an alternative, how about because a power is in a gadget, the powers within can have a free extra or the equivalent in strengths?

[z-Coyote-Mad Scientist]

I don't mind the weakness so much as I don't think it's worth 5 points. Also, by saying, "this only works with combat sense, and I have only have combat sense on the sword" you're essentially doubling up on the weakness without actually weakening the weapon. The sword has the limiting power on it, which makes it not really a weakness since you can't stop the use of the power so long as you have the sword, and you can't use the power without the gadget. I'd like to see that changed, and the fact that the S/W system was used to make a Level 3 power a Level 1 is exactly the reason I despise the system.

[Guo Zhenglai]

Re: The House-rules and Powers stuff: Thanks, Naomi!

Re: The Weaknesses: I generally try not to nitpick about this sort of thing in collaborative fiction forums like this one because they just don't matter all that much (if it weren't for the sobering example of runaway power-creep in the original 2010 forum, I'd almost prefer to just forget about point-spreads or numbers of dots, or whatever). If I were in the habit of nit-picking about this kind of thing, I'd have said something the first time I looked at Coyote's sheet (sorry to pick on ya, Carver, Coyote's just the first example to come to mind!) and saw that she had two L2 powers with 4 dots in them that she'd paid only a single NP for (which is what her sheet looked like before the recent rewrite of the Gadget rules). This was "according to the rules", but was also massively broken from a mechanical standpoint. However, with CN being a collaborative fiction forum, I just didn't see that it mattered - especially since I was seeing it on one of Carver's PC-sheets and she's basically the last person I would worry about when it comes to things like munchkinism or broke-as-hell power gaming.

Having said that, I will point out that the weaknesses as they're written on Taeli's sheet are not really legal. Having the two powers Linked to each other for 3 pts means - by definition - that they're only usable with each other in the first place, rendering the second weakness as redundant and without point value (unless it's meant that Taeli cannot use any other power at all while these two linked powers are in use, in which case that's actually a fairly serious weakness).

As far as the Claws being linked to the Moonblade, that is essentially what it is, though actually the correct term is a 'Dependency'. It works when Taeli uses the Moonblade, and not otherwise. Specifically, this would make it a Dependency Weakness worth 2 points, which states "Cannot use the dependent power at all except in conjunction with the primary power" (or, in this case, magic sword).

So, no, it's not worth 5pts, but it can legally be claimed to be worth 2pts.

[z006]

I like the dependent idea for this sort of situation, and I agree on not being able to take dependency and linked for the same powers.

So again, looking at Vys' Moonblade:

For Quantum Weapon it would have a 2 pt weakness because it can't be used to do more than augment the blade (can't be used to create another weapon out of quantum energy or be able to augment another real weapon with it). Same for Accelerate Time, as it only works for Vysarian when he's in combat with the blade. Mental Blast would also have it so long as it only delivers psychic damage when the weapon itself touches the target (being that the weapon deals psychic damage, not Vys).

Quantum Weapon wouldn't have the weakness if Vysarian could use it to "summon" his Moonblade to him or to create as secondary sword/whatever when he was using the Moonblade.

Accelerate Time wouldn't have the weakness if Vysarian could "cast" it on another (as per the full use of technique) simply while holding the sword.

Mental Blast wouldn't have the weakness if it could still be used at range instead of requiring a successful attack roll with the sword.

Does this sound appropriate?

[Naomi Minami]

Z: Good observation. And you're welcome.

V: Sounds good, actually. I can sign off on that. I'm also withdrawing my suggestion from the table.

C: I can understand your hesitance with Weaknesses and Strengths. It's usually why I stay away from them personally unless I see it can reduce the power's utility to something more with what I envisioned the power. For instance, look at Naomi's Pretercognition. I cut back half of it's useable situations, and made it less reliable, and put a specific condition upon what is required to use it.

I fully expect to be kept to my word and honor as the Vanilla master if I start really abusing this.

[Guo Zhenglai]

I like the dependent idea for this sort of situation, and I agree on not being able to take dependency and linked for the same powers.

So again, looking at Vys' Moonblade:

For Quantum Weapon it would have a 2 pt weakness because it can't be used to do more than augment the blade (can't be used to create another weapon out of quantum energy or be able to augment another real weapon with it). Same for Accelerate Time, as it only works for Vysarian when he's in combat with the blade. Mental Blast would also have it so long as it only delivers psychic damage when the weapon itself touches the target (being that the weapon deals psychic damage, not Vys).

Quantum Weapon wouldn't have the weakness if Vysarian could use it to "summon" his Moonblade to him or to create as secondary sword/whatever when he was using the Moonblade.

Accelerate Time wouldn't have the weakness if Vysarian could "cast" it on another (as per the full use of technique) simply while holding the sword.

Mental Blast wouldn't have the weakness if it could still be used at range instead of requiring a successful attack roll with the sword.

Does this sound appropriate?

Your specific examples sound appropriate, though we all need to be careful about this and use the honor-system, I think. For example, Zhenglai's Extradimensional Pocket Gadget is "only usable" with the Gadget in question, but it'd be kinda silly for me to try and claim levels of weakness for that.

Now, regarding the whole issue of Strengths/Weaknesses being potentially abused: as I said, I normally just don't bother commenting about these things in collaborative fiction forums because I don't feel that they matter very much in such a setting. This is not to say that I don't notice them. So, if we're going to start going over them in such fine detail to determine who's currently at fault and who currently deserves some levels of unclaimed weaknesses, then I'll just go ahead and bring to people's attention everything that I've noticed while looking at people's character sheets.

Going in order from oldest PC to newest:

Mel Grimson: The Claws power on his sheet is using Strengths/Weaknesses incorrectly. Firstly, it does have the Kinetic Discharge extra on it, meaning that it can channel its effects through a weapon of whatever sort. So, he can potentially take a weakness saying that using his Claws with a weapon of some sort is the only way he can use them at all. Even so, I'm a little dubious that this qualifies as a 3pt Weakness (which in simplest terms is meant to indicate that a power works less than half the time, and this particular "weakness" is less restrictive than a gadget Dependency that restricts a power's use to "only when using the gadget"). Furthermore, he has claimed a "free Extra" for this power (or so it seems from the notes in parentheses and from looking at the spending log). 3 points of Weakness does not grant a "free" extra. It allows a player to purchase an extra (for 3NP) without raising the power's level.

So, sorry Mel, but you fail to pass the Strengths/Weaknesses test.

Robert Lehnsherr: ... is pretty much the Gold Standard that the rest of us should follow. His Molecular Manipulation power is only usable "against Metal or Minerals, including compounds of such", and he lists this as a 3pt Weakness, which level is defined as a power that "only works against a fairly broad but defined set of targets" (as opposed to a 2pt Weakness, that works in "half the range of possible circumstances", or a 4pt Weakness, that "only works against a fairly narrow set of targets"). He further (and correctly) states that this means that Rob can take an extra for that power for 3NP without raising the power's level, and then he states what extra he has taken in conjunction with this.

So, Rob passes with flying colors, giving us a textbook example of what a Weakened power is supposed to look like.

Karen "Coyote" Dineh: She has a weakened Shape Shift power, defined as only allowing her to shift into mammalian/bird forms. Since the default version of Shape Shift is normally one of the most flexible powers with one of the broadest lists of possible uses, I think she's justified in claiming 5pts of Weakness for this. For pretty much any other power in Aberrant, her stated weakness would be a 4pt, or more likely 3pt Weakness.

So, Coyote passes.

Nate "Jedi": Jedi has the Claws power with the Armor Piercing extra, and it is listed as having the weakness, "must have a lightsaber prop in order to use his claws ability". This is, as we discussed in the posts above this one, a Dependency Weakness worth 2pts.

However, Fox has not officially listed any point values for this weakness, so perhaps its just a thematic thing? I can't tell, so I won't say here if Jedi "fails" or "passes".

Mech: Has no Strengths/Weaknesses on his sheet.

Kei "Umiwashi" Nakano: Has no Strengths/Weaknesses on her sheet.

Supreme: Has no Strengths/Weaknesses on his sheet.

Vysarian Arasael: Has no Strengths/Weaknesses on his/her sheet.

Kitty Price: Has no Strengths/Weaknesses on her sheet.

Guo Zhenglai: My own character's sheet is an interesting example. He has Pretercognition that is weakened so that it requires Yarrow Stalks to use, and so that it takes "around 15 minutes" to use. Limiting the power so that's only usable in conjunction with Yarrow Stalks is, as has been stated, a 2pt Weakness. Limiting it to take "around 15 minutes", on the other hand, is a weakness that does not clearly fit into any of the listed categories. The closest would be the "Multiple Actions" category, but this only sets whether a power can be used as part of multiple actions or if it takes the entirety of a character's turn to use. Still, 15 minutes to use the power is such a massive increase in time-to-use that I don't feel at all bad about claiming a total of 5pts of Weakness on this power.

In fact, going over all this has made me realize I'm being too hard on Z, and I'm hereby reducing his dependency to yarrow stalks to a 1pt Weakness, which limits him to half his normal power rating when Yarrow Stalks are not available. He'll be able to use it without yarrow stalks, at a reduced level, by spending at least a quarter of an hour in deep meditation now.

So, Zhenglai passes, but not with the "flying colors" that Rob does, since his Weaknesses are non-standard and therefore somewhat open to interpretation.

Naomi Minami: Naomi has a weakened Pretercognition power as well. In her case, the power is actually over-Weakened. It is limited to "only the past", and as this is (very literally) half the range of possible circumstances it could be used for this qualifies as a 2pt Weakness. Additionally, Naomi's pretercog dice pool has also been reduced by -5. This is a total of 7pts of Weakness, and since it only takes 5pts of Weakness to lower a power's level by 1, this means that this power has two levels of Weakness on it that aren't actually being used for anything. Naomi's basically just taking on extra weakness voluntarily.

So, Naomi passes, but she's saddled herself with extra levels of Weakness as well. Hopefully this was intentional and voluntary.

Kevin Cooper/Taehlyri'salatria Duirsar: Well, there's a lot on this character's sheet, so I guess we'll just start at the beginning.

Magic Missile (q-bolt 5): The reduction to range by 3 dots is valid and worth 3pts. The "cannot make called shots" weakness is a little confusing to me. I'm assuming that what's meant is "no Targeting" (pg. 243 of Aberrant). This is fine as a Weakness, however it does not, IMO, qualify as a 2pt Weakness. 2pts means the power loses roughly half of its capabilities in some way. Saying that this q-bolt can't make targeted attacks sound more to me like saying that it's not going to "work in some specific set of circumstances. It's fine most of the time, just not always." Since that was a direct quote from the entry under the 1pt Target Restrictions Weakness I'd say that's what this is worth.

Meaning Magic Missile has 4pts of Weakness on it, as of right now.

Song of Exquisite Battle (Sizemorph (Grow)): This power isn't weakened, but it does have a custom extra on it. I'll be honest: I missed the voting on this thing because I was preoccupied with other stuff at the time, but to me this extra looks seriously broken. This power completely outstrips the benefits provided by Boost with the Extra Attribute extra on it, as well as Density Increase with the Extreme Density extra on it, both of which are L3 powers that are meant to provide similar effects.

Still, this power was put up for review, and only one person bothered to comment on it (that I noticed anyway), and they gave it a pass.

Dimension Door (Teleport w/Combat Teleport): Saying that the power can't make long-range teleports is justifiably a 3pt Weakness, since this does reduce its functionality by more than half. Adding in another 10pts of Weakness by saying that it only gets [Quantum] successes on teleport rolls, however, is similar to saying that the Claws and Combat Sense powers are not only Linked to each other, but also Dependent on each other as well. In this particular case, these 10 extra levels of "weakness" mean that Taeli "only" gets 5 (automatic) successes on her combat teleport rolls. This means teleports of 500 meters in combat. This really isn't much of a weakness, and it certainly isn't 10pts worth of weakness. So while it is - at least according to the letter of the rules - legal, it's not balanced.

Shield (Deflect/Redirect): The Weakness "cannot reflect attacks" reduces the power's functionality by half, making this a 2pt Weakness, not a 3pt one.

Languorous Glide (Flight): The total level of Weakness on this power appears to be correct, but the levels of each listed Weakness is wrong. Reducing speed by half is very literally reducing the power's usefulness by half, making it a 2pt Weakness. On the other hand, saying that it no longer has any out-of-combat speed rating is stripping it of the speed rating it would be able to use in the significant majority of possible circumstance, which qualifies it as a 3pt Weakness.

Sharpness (Claws) & Ancestor in the Blade (Combat Sense): The Weakness "only applies to Moonblade" on the Claws power is covered under the Dependency "can only be used when attacking with Moonblade", meaning that it counts for no points at all, unfortunately. Linking the power with Combat Sense is a 3pt Weakness as stated, however. This equals out to a total of 5pts of Weakness on Sharpness; enough to lower the power's level by 1. The Combat Sense power, as was discussed earlier, only really qualifies for the Linked (with Sharpness) Weakness, giving it a total of 3pts of Weakness.

I believe that covers all of the powers on Taeli's sheet with Strengths/Weaknesses. So, unfortunately, Taeli fails pretty hard at passing the Strengths/Weaknesses test.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll reiterate again that none of the flaws on people's sheets that I just got done pointing out have really bothered me. I've been aware of all of them since the first time I looked at the respective PC's sheet, but never felt the need comment on any of them until after seeing the discussion that the Strengths/Weaknesses on Taeli's Moonblade provoked. So bear in mind that these errors are certainly there, and they're illegal and/or unbalanced, but only in a mechanical sense. And since this isn't a mechanically-dependent game these violations are not nearly as significant as they might otherwise be.

Still, if we're going to start discussing Strengths/Weaknesses in CN and/or start holding folks accountable for the ones already on their sheets, then we might as well be thorough about it and get it right the first time. Hence this post.

[Naomi Minami]

Z: You overlooked that I need evidence to actually use the power. By your assessment, my power should be at L2, not L1. It's supposed to be "Cinematic Deduction" thus it has to be limited.

[Guo Zhenglai]

My apologies, Naomi, I did not see that you were claiming Pretercognition as a Level 1 power. I also, as you say, forgot to represent your requirement of needing evidence.

This would then be: Dependent (only with sufficient evidence to hand; -2pts), Limited (only to past; -2pts), Reduced dice pool by -5 dots (-5pts). This would be -9pts total. This is 1 too few for it to be a level 1 power, unfortunately.

[Naomi Minami]

I could take the extra -1 penalty.

Addendum: NM, going to simply change her Pretercognition to L2, and reduce the dots and diepool penalty accordingly.

Since I'm "The Vanilla Master", I am having a hard time getting this all set up.

Addendum II: Since I've seen that doing it like I am is confusing everyone and will cause a rules argument (again), I'm dropping the power. I'll just use the 5np to improve her skill set. NM, Just confused...

The power has been changed, and it freed up 2 NP so I could improve a few things.

We're good.

[Sean Cassidy]

Okay, let me say a few things.in my defense on how I build Taeli's sword.

First, the Linked Power, using both the Activation and Dependency Weaknesses together. Yes, this looks cheesy to me too, but it's how I've seen it done on this site before. Took me a while to figure out how it works. One is purely when you activate the power, one you activate one, who have to activate the other. Once they are activated though, there is no further effect, one power can be maintained, while the other is left to lapse

Adding the Dependency Weakness means if one power is Disrupted, so is the other one. If one power's duration elapses and turns off, or for whatever reason, can't be paid to maintain and so turns off, so does the other. But I'm fine if we're saying that is implied.

Weakness: Only applies to Moonblade, I feel is fully justified being worth 5pts of weakness. 5pts indicate being useable only on a very specific set of targets - I think one weapon counts. Dependency (meaning you can only use this power if you have the item with you) is not appropriate in this case, IMHO, that is already implied by the simple fact that it's bought as a gadget. But nowhere in our gadget rules does is state powers are inherently limited to the gadget itself. If someone builds a device to let them Shapeshift, is the Shapeshift power limited to Device itself? Does Armor only apply to the Device?

As far as I know, powers bought as devices cost the same as powers normally, and work exactly the same way, except for needing the device itself to use the power in question. In theory, I should be able to hold up the Moonblade, 'cast' Claws, and punch someone's face in with an Armor Piercing fist. In this case, I actually had to add an Extra (Kinetic Discharge) just so I could use the power with the device, not just needing the device to activate the power. If the power already automatically applies to the Device, fine, I'll take off the 5pt weakness and I'll expect I don't need to still buy the Kinetic Discharge extra. Otherwise, I'm better off just buying the power normally, since it'll be cheaper.

Notes on my other uses of Strengths/Weaknesses:

Yeah, sorry, for some reason, I thought 3pts weakness was for half effect. I'll adjust accordingly.

For Teleport, I didn't know what else to make it fall under, so I used what I had in the books. I'm fine coming up with a flat number to determine only using base auto-successes, and losing 9 or more dice, three of which are Mega, and that number will increase later, most like.

Conversely, I respectfully disagree with you about the Timeframe of using a power being worth 5pts for taking 'around' fifteen minutes. Basically, in most RPGs, there is combat time, and out of combat time. Out of Combat time, 1 minute and 15 minutes really isn't all that different, whereas in combat, it's a lifetime. So, really all adding a 'casting' time on a power does is determine if a power is useable in combat or not.

How often do you consider PCs (especially in non-D&D, PbP games) get in combat? Half the time? Less?

[Sean Cassidy]

Addendum:

1- Fixed Magic Missile but adding another -1 to range. (Note, the original D&D Magic Missile also had a limit where it couldn't damage/target inanimate objects, but I didn't want to bother with that, with determining if a robot or a car is considered inanimate, and who knows what else )

2 - Fixed Dimension Door. Making an ad-hoc 5pt weakness - for anything that rolls dice and adds Quantum Rating auto-successes, you only get the auto-successes.

3- Fixed Shield. It is now Spell-turning, no weaknesses.

[z006]

I'm confused on the whole Claws thing....which is why I used Quantum Weapon instead. There is a point in this that you're paying the same amount for a power dependent on an item as for the regular power, but this is (in my opinion) balanced out by the fact that the device has its own Quantum rating (which can be higher than a character's own quantum rating, despite the free Q5 in the game. Taking a character's Q rating up to 5 is a choice, not a requirement.) and the fact that the power has its own dedicated quantum pool. It costs the characters nothing to use those powers/enhancements. The device is limited in uses before recharging because of that, but cost-wise, it's honestly a nice bump of free qp.

On the note of Dependency and Linked....I would support that Linked powers must both be activated and maintained for the duration of any use of the Linked power(s). If one of the powers is disrupted, the Linked power goes as well. Honestly, it's just poorly written and they shouldn't have been separated, in my opinion.

....and I really get now why Dawn hates the S/W system. It's incredibly easy to break and has several sections that are pretty much "what the ST says", which is a major headache in a setting like CN (since effectively we're an ST committee).

I'm rather inclined to say "fuck it" and trust people not to be abusive or assholes in threads. And for those who decide to run threads as ST's to lay out any specific groundrules for their threads, if they don't want to bother with certain issues in their storylines. Otherwise, it's OW and the dots are really just guidelines.

[SeaEagle]

Actually the S&R stuff is actually more clear than I thought. There are good examples in the material on p.141 of the APG.

I am still confused for the life of me how I thought half effect was 3 points myself when it is clearly stated in the book it's a 2 point weakness.

The S&R system can, and will make powers fit better to a concept. But as with everything in a RPG rules system, and no system is completely secure, is vulnerable to getting munchkined.

I think we must approach the analysis of S&Rs on a character by giving them the benefit of the doubt. I personally am usually uncomfortable with using them unless I am unable to make a power fit a concept, and usually I go with weaknesses to "trim down" a power to fit the hole I want it to fit through.

That's just how I operate.

[Sean Cassidy]

My point with Claws is that I'm perfectly fine with it only applying to the Moonblade. The problem is, without adding an extra, currently, it seems it is entirely useless, since it only applies to normal punches and strikes. And with nothing else stated in the Gadget rules, I assumed powers worked as they did already, only needing the Device in hand to activate them. Unless a limited form of Kinetic Discharge (in the case of Claws), where it only applies to the weapon is already in implied.

PS - I'm really not fond of the Strengths & Weaknesses system in Aberrant, which is why I proposed the custom Extra on Sizemorph (Grow) instead of making another series of linked powers.

[Naomi Minami]

Okay, not to side track, but the thread "The Cat and the Mecha" is supposed to be in Fictions. My apologies.

[Guo Zhenglai]

Okay, let me say a few things.in my defense on how I build Taeli's sword.

First, the Linked Power, using both the Activation and Dependency Weaknesses together. Yes, this looks cheesy to me too, but it's how I've seen it done on this site before. Took me a while to figure out how it works. One is purely when you activate the power, one you activate one, who have to activate the other. Once they are activated though, there is no further effect, one power can be maintained, while the other is left to lapse

Hmm. Well, I'm not sure where that reading of the rules came from, but it is a very creative reading of them, certainly.

The A:PG states, on pg. 142, that "some novas can't use just one power at a time. The rules present distinct powers, but in the mind of the nova with linked powers, they all tie together. The degree of connection determines how much of a weakness the linkage is: The less time a nova has between using one power and using the other one linked to it, the more levels of weakness."

I don't know, but to me the meaning of the above text seems clear enough. Both powers must be used together. At 1 Weakness Level (abbr. to WL from here on out for convenience) means you get [Quantum rating] turns before you have to turn on the linked power, and this also means that in many cases you'll be able to turn the original power off before that time passes, so not much of a weakness. 2WL means you get a turn between activations. 3WL: means they must both be turned on simultaneously; 4WL means that they must not only be turned on simultaneously, but they are treated as a Multiple Action (and meaning that the 3WL version is, in some cases, advantageous as it allows for what is essentially a multiple action with no/reduced penalties).

The rules then go on to state, "Each power requires its usual quantum costs and other restrictions to activate. If the nova doesn't activate the linked powers within the time allowed, the active powers shut off, and the nova takes one automatic level of bashing damage per level of weakness. The nova must also let one turn per level of weakness go by before attempting to use either of the powers again." (This also comes from the A:PG pg. 142.)

Again, this seems clear to me, but I'll elaborate nonetheless. What the above text means is, very simply, both powers must be used in conjunction with each other. Period. Yes, if you have lower levels of the weakness there is a delay before you must activate both of them, but sooner or later they've both got to be turned on. If you fail in this - for whatever reason - you suffer automatic damage!!! (Well okay, it's not that scary if you've got decent soak, but still... )

This means that if you let one power lapse you may indeed let the other keep running - right up until the delay your WL allows, at which point it shuts off and you take automatic damage. It also means that one power will continue working even if someone disrupts the other power somehow - but you must reactivate that power (or deactivate the still-running one) post-haste - or suffer automatic damage (and have the power you were trying to keep active shut off on you anyway).

Yep, it's a pretty severe disadvantage, but that's why it qualifies as a Weakness.

Adding the Dependency Weakness means if one power is Disrupted' date=' so is the other one. If one power's duration elapses and turns off, or for whatever reason, can't be paid to maintain and so turns off, so does the other. But I'm fine if we're saying that is implied.[/quote']Adding the Dependency does mean what you say it means, but it's largely redundant at this point. This is a situation where a strict reading of the rules would seem to indicate that you're within your rights (sorta, I don't actually think so, but it'd take longer than I want to spend to explain it and it doesn't really matter in the context of my next point, which is as follows), but the fact is that it's not really very balanced at all. You're essentially "double-dipping". The 3WL Linkage on your powers means you have to maintain them together, with no delays between activations, so the Dependencies on them aren't really doing much of anything. The point of a Weakness is that it represents an appreciable disadvantage of some kind and in this case it really doesn't represent anything more than a negligible inconvenience.

However, as I said, this is an open-fiction forum, not a mechanically-oriented PbP forum. If it were the latter I would argue this issue into the ground if necessary, but since it's the former I confess that I just don't really care all that much. So expect this to be probably the last thing I'll say on the matter.